Eurobasket 2022 Finals : SPAIN are European champions!!!

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Who will be new European champion?

Spain
32
52%
France
30
48%
 
Total votes: 62

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Re: Eurobasket '22: France wins another unwinnable ending, Poland shocks Europe & eliminates Slovenia, Ponitka triple do 

Post#361 » by UcanUwill » Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:44 pm

XTraderXL wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:Doncic taking clasy route and blaming himsel for the loss. Stated that he played terribly, let down his team and country.



Classy?? Did you watch how he was acting at the end of the game? Boy needs to grow up and start behaving like a man. This was shameful.


I dont think it is shameful, it is just annoying. Thats just his personally, it shows how much he cares, his acting is annoying and unlikable, but I wouldn't say shameful. In the moment, he always whines and complains, but when he stops for a moment to think, he always takes the blame as a leader, he never really came and just flat out blamed someone else for his failure as far as I know.
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Re: Eurobasket 2022 part deux : Quarterfinals! Magical France escapes another inescapable ending, makes medal stage 

Post#362 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:46 pm

greekbuck34 wrote:
Sgt Major wrote:
greekbuck34 wrote:One bad night and you are out. This is how random are the fiba and euroleague Final 4s. No time for the better team or better player(s) to recover like the nba playoff series.



And that's awesome. That's how any team can win it, which makes the tournaments exciting.


It's awesome for us the fans but it doesn't mean as much in the end because it's based a lot in luck and randomness.

In the end of the NBA season you have a clear image of who is the best player of the regular season, who is the best player in the league and which team was the best team of the year.

In the end of the eurobasket you still have no idea. Random things in 4 important random games against random teams.

But there is no time for series in the Summer. We are lucky we even have that much anyway.


Actually, at the end of an NBA season, you know who the best player and best team are based on what injuries did or did not happen, based on what the refs decide, based on what the league wants, and based on what the current fake and made up story line of the sports media is at the time, or what they refer to as "their narrative"........

The NBA is closer to the WWE, than it is to a real sports competition.
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Re: Eurobasket '22: France wins another unwinnable ending, Poland shocks Europe & eliminates Slovenia, Ponitka triple do 

Post#363 » by remi_222 » Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:46 pm

Germany is to me the new favorite, they play with fire, really reminds me Slovenia when they won last time !
Good old France and Spain still here ! Spain torched all youth competitions this summer (male female) and only lost to France U16 female, they won all gold medals for ALL the competitions left, so pls, Spain is still alive !!!!
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Re: Eurobasket '22: France wins another unwinnable ending, Poland shocks Europe & eliminates Slovenia, Ponitka triple do 

Post#364 » by XTraderXL » Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:47 pm

UcanUwill wrote:
XTraderXL wrote:
UcanUwill wrote:Doncic taking clasy route and blaming himsel for the loss. Stated that he played terribly, let down his team and country.



Classy?? Did you watch how he was acting at the end of the game? Boy needs to grow up and start behaving like a man. This was shameful.


I dont think it is shameful, it is just annoying. Thats just his personally, it shows how much he cares, his acting is annoying and unlikable, but I wouldn't say shameful. In the moment, he always whines and complains, but when he stops for a moment to think, he always takes the blame as a leader, he never really came and just flat out blamed someone else for his failure as far as I know.


I guess you couldnt read his lips then :D
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Re: Eurobasket '22: France wins another unwinnable ending, Poland shocks Europe & eliminates Slovenia, Ponitka triple do 

Post#365 » by leolozon » Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:50 pm

yannisk wrote:Some good players miss something, they are not great shooters or they don't have great vision etc

Doncic has everything and his problem is he cannot work on his conditioning


He can't? You mean he won't. He hasn't tried to slim down for 3 years now, it is what it is at this point. I keep hoping that he'll take his conditioning seriously.
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Re: Eurobasket '22: France wins another unwinnable ending, Poland shocks Europe & eliminates Slovenia, Ponitka triple do 

Post#366 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:51 pm

Arco Thunder wrote:These FIBA tournaments are so luck based it's ridiculous that there are posters who take these results seriously in evaluating player legacies. It's a crapshoot who wins a Bo1 tournament unless a team is head and shoulders above the rest in talent level and even then you never know what can happen in 1 game. Is it entertaining? Yes and so is March Madness and pulling the lever on a slot machine.

I watch my Kings beat the best teams in the NBA every year...it happens and basketball is getting even more volatile with the focus on the 3pt shot.


NBA only fans view of FIBA and "player legacies"...

If a non NBA player fails to win EuroBasket, they are a "scrub that sucks and is a total joke of a minor league player, that got totally dominated by the vastly superior NBA players".

If an NBA player fails to win EuroBasket, "it was such bad luck, these tournaments are so random, anyone can lose on any given night, and their teammates are so damn horrible and made them suffer so needlessly"....

It's an extreme double standard, and hypocrisy of the absolute highest order.
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Re: Eurobasket 2022 part deux : Quarterfinals! 

Post#367 » by Nuntius » Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:57 pm

Taikuri wrote:
Nuntius wrote:Man, I'm not going to lie. The way that this second half played out hurt. Finland was sooo close to making it to the semis. I have been rooting for Finland ever since the 2013 EuroBasket.

Edit: Despite my disappointment, this is not a dark day for Finnish basketball. If anything, it should be a joyous day. A top 8 finish is the best that Finland has had ever since 1967. This tournament was definitely a success for Finland and the team has a bright future ahead.


As you know, Finland is already in the World Cup, so next year is the time to shine. Finland will have many new players and I expect these players to already be effective next summer.

Miro Little will gain one more year of experience. Nkamhoua who is a player with size, weight and some skill made a breakthrough into team Finland's line up this summer. He formed the 4 big men rotation with Markkanen, Jantunen and Madsen. This allowed Finland to use the starting line up of 3 bigger guys, when Jantunen would be put to SF position instead of PF. So Markkanen+Nkamhoua+Jantunen+Salin+Maxhuni was the ideal starting line up and the starting line up that Finland used one week before the Eurobasket started in the World Cup qualifiers. Finland obviously couldn't do this in the Eurobasket, because Nkamhoua wasn't there. The university of Tennessee decided all of a sudden few days before the Eurobasket started that the guy won't play in the Eurobasket. This surprised our coaches even. Next year Tennessee's NCAA team can't stop him from joining the team anymore as it's Nkamhoua's last year in the university and NBA draft year too. I don't know if he will be picked, it depends how well his next season goes.

Other players to name are Gustavson from NCAA. He has Salin type strengths, so defense and long range shooting but he is bigger than Salin. Another interesting player is Jacob Grandison who is a NCAA guy as well, playing his last year there and he is a 3 point shooting specialist and is capable of doing many other things as well, like defense and some ball handling. There are some more guys, but those are the ones with the most potential. Many Finnish people expect many of these guys to already be featuring in the World Cup team.

So people shouldn't be surprised if in the future Finland will do better than Finland did in this Eurobasket. The Finnish team is now very young and all of them are getting better. Hopefully Markkanen can remain in this form for many years as well. The new coach Tuovi is actually better than Dettman. Actually I don't know where this guy's ceiling is as a coach. It could be very high. That is also a positive. Then when you also factor in the the growing interest of fans in Finland towards basketball. I don't see it impossible for Finland to be a true top country in Europe soon if we compare to the likes of Germany and Italy for example.

Finland's problem in sports is that ice hockey dominates everything in here and steals a lot of the good talent from other sports. For example if a talented sport person has multiple sports as a hobby the likelihood of that person choosing ice hockey as his main sport is higher, because it's easier to turn that into a profession when you live in Finland, because the infrastructure and machinery is there in producing good ice hockey players. Many soccer first countries have the same problem as Finland has with ice hockey, but it's instead soccer that is taking most of the talent.


I see. Thanks for the info. As a non-Finn, I found that deeper dive very interesting.

I knew about Nkamhoua and it was indeed a shame that he wasn't able to play in the EuroBasket. He can definitely help Finland a lot inside.

I didn't know about Gustavson and Grandison. It looks like your Swedish-speakers are doing some work :wink:

As for Tuovi, I didn't know him before this tournament but I think he did a very good job. I did like Dettman a lot and if he becomes better than him then that's awesome.

Last but not least, I totally understand what you're saying about ice hockey stealing the best athletic talent in the country. It does indeed happen all over the world where the best athletic talent goes to the most popular sport. And, as you said, it is usually association football who gets the best athletic talent at basketball's expense. The main difference, as I see it, is that the athletic skills required for association football are different than the ones that basketball requires. A youth player who grows to be taller than 6 foot is often considered to be too tall for the sport with the exception of goalkeepers and certain styles of centre back or striker. In ice hockey, on the other hand, 6 foot is quite a normal height. There is a higher degree of overlap between the athletic skills required for ice hockey and basketball than there is between football and basketball. So, ice hockey ends up stealing more players who could become very good at basketball than football does.
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Re: Eurobasket 2022 part deux : Quarterfinals! Magical France escapes another inescapable ending, makes medal stage 

Post#368 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Sep 14, 2022 9:58 pm

greekbuck34 wrote:My point is Jokic, Giannis and Luca would easily beat Italy, Germany and Poland in a 7 game series. Hell even in a 5 game series. They will average a near 30p triple double because it's inevitable.

A random great/trash shooting night, or a bizzare bad night for a MVP caliber player or a completely wrong defensive plan from the coach can easily cause an upset. It's happening so many times in the game 1s in the NBA but teams have time to study or get over the bad luck and prevail. For me that's way better to witness.

Eurobasket was fun but I don't even care anymore who wins it now that all the MVPs are out. Spain and France could make the finals without even facing one of them in the knockouts. :D


The NBA is largely dictated by the refs, by the league's money making goals, and by the fake sports media's marketing gimmicks and slogans. The NBA is listed as an entertainment company, and not a pure sports competition. It's really amazing that people that watch the NBA, then something like FIBA, cannot see how the NBA is so very clearly a show, and not meant as real true sportive competition.

Like really, Giannis looks like Superman in the NBA, and he either plays like total crap in FIBA, if his team tries to play like a team, and they lose, or he stat pads in ridiculous nonsense video game hero ball, with completely taking his other teammates out of the game, and making all the other players on the team noticeably worse, instead of better, and then still loses anyway.

While in the "vastly superior NBA", the whole story line, is will Giannis win every championship from now until whenever, or will one of his key help players get injured, or will he miss a key free throw.......AKA as the "narrative" fake storyline that is created. It's amazing that people can see NBA refs and then see FIBA refs and not see how insanely fake the NBA is.
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Re: Eurobasket '22: France wins another unwinnable ending, Poland shocks Europe & eliminates Slovenia, Ponitka triple do 

Post#369 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:00 pm

Dirk wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:
Dirk wrote:The guy who kept Poland afloat when Slovenia made the comeback did not look Polish. Another random American signed?


His name is AJ Slaughter and let's not even begin to pretend that he's a good player. He was one of the worst point guards I've seen that played in EuroLeague.

Poland signing him to play is basically totally irrelevant as far as I am concerned. Actually, Slovenia's naturalized player, Mike Tobey, is a much better player than Slaughter is.


It just underlines the lack of quality, if teams have to pay foreigners to play for their national team.


Not really. Poland is something around the 12th to 15th best European national team, in terms of their talent level and depth of players. They are not even in the 2nd tier level of European national teams.
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Re: Eurobasket '22: France wins another unwinnable ending, Poland shocks Europe & eliminates Slovenia, Ponitka triple do 

Post#370 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:03 pm

UcanUwill wrote:I think Ponitka is easily one of the better Euroleague wingmen, him and Pangos was ana amazing duo. But he excels as creator, and he really is not a very good shooter, despite him being a tough shot specialist to a point, and him having a very nice mechanics. I think he is very good player at Euro level, but not a great NBA fit at all. He is not getting to play on ball in the NBA, and you dont want him to spot up, hes just not a shooter. Looked like an NBA player today, no doubt.


He had like one good EuroLeague season. I personally always liked him, and he is one my favorite European players actually, but he had like one good season in EuroLeague. Hardly a star.
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Re: Eurobasket '22: France wins another unwinnable ending, Poland shocks Europe & eliminates Slovenia, Ponitka triple do 

Post#371 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:07 pm

Jellybeans wrote:They arent victims.They didnt lose because some random american torched them.
They lost because they leader played like ass

I have no problems when second tier teams get americans.I wouldnt even put Poland as second tier.
I have only problems when teams like Spain/Greece starts to get americans on their team. For Spain it just so insane that they need to go that way even with Rubio out


It is, but then again, Spain's level of talent has had an enormous drop off. Those Pau/Navarro teams would have swept through this tournament and beaten anyone with absolute ease. Spain's current talent level is like 3 levels lower. So it's understandable in that way that they naturalized a guard. Even though it looks absurd for the #2 ranked team in the world to do so.
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Re: Eurobasket '22: France wins another unwinnable ending, Poland shocks Europe & eliminates Slovenia, Ponitka triple do 

Post#372 » by lambchop » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:07 pm

leolozon wrote:
yannisk wrote:Some good players miss something, they are not great shooters or they don't have great vision etc

Doncic has everything and his problem is he cannot work on his conditioning


He can't? You mean he won't. He hasn't tried to slim down for 3 years now, it is what it is at this point. I keep hoping that he'll take his conditioning seriously.


This. Of course, the optimal scenario is where he doesn't have any games all summer and can go through a well though out 12 week strength and conditioning program. That's the optimal scenario. But even while playing games he can still lift weights in the mornings, on off days and directly after games (lots of NBA guys like doing that because that way the next day can be a real rest day).

The Kobes, the LBJs, even MJ and Pippen back in the day with the breakfast club all did/do that combination of lifting and basketball year round.

He can't lift because he has to play games is a lame excuse. No one has ever spoken about Luka's incredible work ethic. If a star player has a truly incredible work ethic, those stories come out sooner or later in the NBA. Anyway, Luka is still great and doesn't need to work on his conditioning just to be a top 50 player ever. The conditioning thing is just so that he can reach his "full potential", but hardly anyone does that anyway...
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Re: Eurobasket '22: France wins another unwinnable ending, Poland shocks Europe & eliminates Slovenia, Ponitka triple do 

Post#373 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:10 pm

BoatsNZones wrote:Lol So Giannis, Jokic and Doncic (Real GM's top 3) all likely won't be making the Eurobasket All Tournament Team. Rudy Gobert remains the last remaining NBA All Star. Classic.


Giannis and/or Doncic could still make it. EuroBasket changed the rules to placate the NBA some years back. The NBA complained about the voting system, because NBA "superstars" were failing to make the All-Tournament Team. So they changed the rule to where all players that make the knockout stage are eligible and that personal stats are prioritized over team success.

So yeah, under how it was for many years, they couldn't make the All-Tournament Team, but now they can. It would be so, so embarrassing for NBA fake marketing schemes and gimmicks if they didn't change that rule though. The NBA marketing department was smart, they knew to get that fixed ahead of time.
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Re: Eurobasket 2022 part deux : Quarterfinals! 

Post#374 » by Taikuri » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:11 pm

Nuntius wrote:I didn't know about Gustavson and Grandison. It looks like your Swedish-speakers are doing some work :wink:


:). Actually I don't think that Gustavson has Swedish as his language. I've only heard him speaking Finnish. Sometimes in here their surnames might sound more Swedish or Nordic, but they are still just Finnish and English speakers first. In Salin's case, which sounds like a Swedish surname as well, I'm quite sure that he doesn't speak any of that. Madsen I believe has at least one Danish parent, so I assume he has Danish, Swedish or boths as his languages along with Finnish. Jantunen is actually surprisingly a guy that speaks fluent Swedish, although his name doesn't sound Swedish at all. His first name Mikael I guess is a bit more Swedish sounding, but a normal forename in this country though. He speaks Finnish and Swedish well.

Nuntius wrote:As for Tuovi, I didn't know him before this tournament but I think he did a very good job. I did like Dettman a lot and if he becomes better than him then that's awesome.


The guy is only 35 years old, so very young for a coach. Kind of fitting for this young new team of Finland. He has already tons of experience though. He has been in the shadows of Dettman. Tuovi has sort of been the head coach for some years now. Dettman had just been the guy that over watched everything, so Dettman stole some fame from Tuovi I guess. It was easy to make the transition of Tuovi being the head coach, because the team had felt for a long time that Tuovi has already been the head coach before. So Dettman left and that gave an assistant coach slot for Teemu Rannikko, who is considered a legend of Finland and a top-5 player of Finland of all time. He just retired as a player a while ago and everyone knew that he will be a coach, even during his career, because he was sort of coaching the other players during team outs already as a player and so on. The entire coaching staff is quite promising.
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Re: Eurobasket 2022 part deux : Quarterfinals! Magical France escapes another inescapable ending, makes medal stage 

Post#375 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:14 pm

greekbuck34 wrote:
schnakenpopanz wrote:
yannisk wrote:
But they don't struggle Jokic, Giannis, Doncic, Markannen, Wagner etc have been great and were head and shoulders above their competition

from the top 15 scorers, at least 10 play in the nba (and a couple more have played there)
Struggling not with individual output.
They are clearly frustrated.
Not only with losses. This is not comparable to College March Madness.

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A team without a single NBA or euroleague player just took down the previous euro champions. Fiba is just 90% luck and randomness.

If the same teams and same players play in a semi NBA long format and fiba rules, baring major injuries, it will always end up like that.

Giannis/Jokic/Luca MVP
Greece/Serbia/Slovenia top 3.

99% of the time.

A few regular games to build some chemistry between the NBA superstar and the random euro scrubs he is surrounded with.
3 or more games in each knockout series to have time to dominate and recover from random great oppenent or trash teammate shooting nights.

But it's not happenning. They just meet up each 2 or 4 years and play together for 7-8 games before they go back to their normal jobs.


Yeah, except that FIBA tournament results are not mainly determined by what the league/governing body wants, like the NBA is. So actually, nope, it would not happen like that 99% of the time. Probably not even 1/3 of the time actually. If FIBA was run like the NBA is, then Dirk would have won like 7 straight EuroBaskets, even though his teams would have not ever been in the top 5 best teams of any of the tournaments.
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Re: Eurobasket '22: France wins another unwinnable ending, Poland shocks Europe & eliminates Slovenia, Ponitka triple do 

Post#376 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:23 pm

zaymon wrote:So proud of my national team. Some say its luck, some say its heart. Switching defense, hitting 3s and huge balls is what wins in the end :)


Only against these European national teams that are low on talent, like Slovenia is. Against the best European national teams of the last 15 years or so - you switch everything and you lose 100% of the time.
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Re: Eurobasket 2022 part deux : Quarterfinals! Magical France escapes another inescapable ending, makes medal stage 

Post#377 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:27 pm

remi_222 wrote:
Mirotic12 wrote:
remi_222 wrote:
i'll frame that post and ship to you whenever you watch ASVEL games this yr ! guess you'be be saying the same words abt CP last yrs ...


De Colo was a great player in EuroLeague and French NT. But I watched him the last two seasons in EuroLeague, and he had a severe decline in his level. It was dramatic last season, where in game after game, he just disappeared, like he wasn't even on the court.

Unless he had bad injuries he played through the last 2 years and suddenly is healthy now, he's nowhere near the player he once was. The mere fact that he signed with ASVEL, a team with one of the lowest budgets in EuroLeague, and with zero expectations of competing for a EuroLeague title, would be proof of that, after he was only in big EuroLeague clubs for many years.

If he was still a great player, there is zero chance that ASVEL could have signed him.


And guess why him and Batum didnt come this summer : to rest and have a great season !! If he had played, pls, and i see you pretty often here so i know you know bball well : France would have a hell of a weapon more in their pocket !! Just from experience !
for him being back to France, how abt he wanted to come back to his country ? Nando de Colo chooses where he plays, no coach in europe would say no to coach him.


Well, yeah, France would be better with De Colo right now. I was referring to the idea of him playing with Wembanaya and Embid down the road in the future, which would seem to be several years off.
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Re: Eurobasket '22: France wins another unwinnable ending, Poland shocks Europe & eliminates Slovenia, Ponitka triple do 

Post#378 » by Mirotic12 » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:31 pm

leolozon wrote:
yannisk wrote:Some good players miss something, they are not great shooters or they don't have great vision etc

Doncic has everything and his problem is he cannot work on his conditioning


He can't? You mean he won't. He hasn't tried to slim down for 3 years now, it is what it is at this point. I keep hoping that he'll take his conditioning seriously.


Everyone can see Luka needs to train better, and that he isn't much of an athlete. But what is strange is how no one talks about Giannis and his poor conditioning. I have not yet seen Giannis finish even a quarter of basketball without him looking like he is completely gassed and totally exhausted.

At times, Giannis looks like the poorest conditioned athlete on Greek NT and the Bucks. Of course you have to cut him some slack, because he's 6-11, and they make him handle the ball a lot, and move a lot on defense, so that's part of it. But still, his conditioning is very clearly nowhere near to being where it needs to be.
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Re: Eurobasket '22: France wins another unwinnable ending, Poland shocks Europe & eliminates Slovenia, Ponitka triple do 

Post#379 » by Yuri36 » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:32 pm

lambchop wrote:
leolozon wrote:
yannisk wrote:Some good players miss something, they are not great shooters or they don't have great vision etc

Doncic has everything and his problem is he cannot work on his conditioning


He can't? You mean he won't. He hasn't tried to slim down for 3 years now, it is what it is at this point. I keep hoping that he'll take his conditioning seriously.


This. Of course, the optimal scenario is where he doesn't have any games all summer and can go through a well though out 12 week strength and conditioning program. That's the optimal scenario. But even while playing games he can still lift weights in the mornings, on off days and directly after games (lots of NBA guys like doing that because that way the next day can be a real rest day).

The Kobes, the LBJs, even MJ and Pippen back in the day with the breakfast club all did/do that combination of lifting and basketball year round.

He can't lift because he has to play games is a lame excuse. No one has ever spoken about Luka's incredible work ethic. If a star player has a truly incredible work ethic, those stories come out sooner or later in the NBA. Anyway, Luka is still great and doesn't need to work on his conditioning just to be a top 50 player ever. The conditioning thing is just so that he can reach his "full potential", but hardly anyone does that anyway...


That's where you're wrong, the most important thing actually would be to minimize the risks of serious injuries.
If he was playing in less demanding positions in term of jumping and quickness like center or PF, his fitness would be much less of a problem but he is playing in arguably the most physically demanding position overall, especially in NBA type of basketball.
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Re: Eurobasket 2022 part deux : Quarterfinals! Magical France escapes another inescapable ending, makes medal stage 

Post#380 » by Taikuri » Wed Sep 14, 2022 10:33 pm

m1chal wrote:Slovenia is a much better team than us so a loss would not surprise me at all but so far We have Been good.


Slovenia has a lot of losses this year, so I'm not sure about that. Slovenia almost lost a World Cup qualification game against Sweden when Doncic was playing about 3 weeks ago. Slovenia is basically now a team consisting of old players + 1 good American player + 1 young superstar. Considering that this is a team sport, I don't think that makes much of a team quite honestly. I'm not shocked that Slovenia is out now. Poland would also be quite poor team without their American player Slaughter, who has no connection to Poland at all. Congrats to Poland anyways. I was slightly rooting for them in that match.

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