Eurobasket 2022 Finals : SPAIN are European champions!!!

[remi_222]

De Colo was a great player in EuroLeague and French NT. But I watched him the last two seasons in EuroLeague, and he had a severe decline in his level. It was dramatic last season, where in game after game, he just disappeared, like he wasn't even on the court.

Unless he had bad injuries he played through the last 2 years and suddenly is healthy now, he's nowhere near the player he once was. The mere fact that he signed with ASVEL, a team with one of the lowest budgets in EuroLeague, and with zero expectations of competing for a EuroLeague title, would be proof of that, after he was only in big EuroLeague clubs for many years.

If he was still a great player, there is zero chance that ASVEL could have signed him.

And guess why him and Batum didnt come this summer : to rest and have a great season !! If he had played, pls, and i see you pretty often here so i know you know bball well : France would have a hell of a weapon more in their pocket !! Just from experience !
for him being back to France, how abt he wanted to come back to his country ? Nando de Colo chooses where he plays, no coach in europe would say no to coach him.

Well, yeah, France would be better with De Colo right now. I was referring to the idea of him playing with Wembanaya and Embid down the road in the future, which would seem to be several years off.

Nah, the coach Collet wants to win now, he has never won with this generation ! he knows some of the players are finishing their carreer, and he will coach Wemby the whole yr, so he will try to put together the BEST group possible for the olympics in Paris in 2024 ! Nando and Batum will stop their international carreer after that, and Wemby will be in, with Embiid ! already cant wait !!

[ValenciaCeltics]

These FIBA tournaments are so luck based it's ridiculous that there are posters who take these results seriously in evaluating player legacies. .

There is some people here saying the same, that FIBA Tournaments are based mainly in luck and randomess.

Anyone who has some knowledge in maths:

-There are 44 countries in Europe. All of them are able to compete in the qualification stage.
-Only 24 advance to the Groups Round
-Only 16 advance to the Knockout stage.
-After that, every round 50% of countries go home.
-STILL, SPAIN HAS REACHED THE FINAL-FOUR 11 OF THE LAST 11 TOURNAMENTS. (100% in last 25 years. Some posters here are younger that that)

-Can any intelligent person actually think that a 100% Semifinals succes in 11 tournaments in a row, where there are 44 teams at the start of the tournament, is based in luck or randomess???

Or maybe there are another reasons (like a group of good players with similar ages, a good coach who is in his job last 13 years, a good job with kids in the national federation...)???


Seriously. If its just randomess and luck, think about the chances of picking 4 random teams out of 44, repeat that 11 times, and same team appears all the 11. Can you make the maths?
Think about it.

[Mirotic12]

These FIBA tournaments are so luck based it's ridiculous that there are posters who take these results seriously in evaluating player legacies. .

There is some people here saying the same, that FIBA Tournaments are based mainly in luck and randomess.

Anyone who has some knowledge in maths:

-There are 44 countries in Europe. All of them are able to compete in the qualification stage.
-Only 24 advance to the Groups Round
-Only 16 advance to the Knockout stage.
-After that, every round 50% of countries go home.
-STILL, SPAIN HAS REACHED THE FINAL-FOUR 11 OF THE LAST 11 TOURNAMENTS. (100% in last 25 years. Some posters here are younger that that)

-Can any intelligent person actually think that a 100% Semifinals succes in 11 tournaments in a row, where there are 44 teams at the start of the tournament, is based in luck or randomess???

Or maybe there are another reasons (like a group of good players with similar ages, a good coach who is in his job last 13 years, a good job with kids in the national federation...)???


Seriously. If its just randomess and luck, think about the chances of picking 4 random teams out of 44, repeat that 11 times, and same team appears all the 11. Can you make the maths?
Think about it.

If you pay attention, the "it's all based on luck" posts are just the typical fake, made up, nonsense excuses for why NBA "superstars" failed in the tournament. It's just the typical lame BS excuses we always see for any time an NBA player fails in a FIBA tournament.

It's also the same exact nonsense BS excuses you see whenever Team USA loses a game.

And like I said in an earlier post, if a non NBA player fails to win EuroBasket, then there are never any excuses made for them, and that player simply "failed, is a scrub, sucks", etc. It's only "bad luck" when NBA players fail and get exposed.

[Taikuri]

Some good players miss something, they are not great shooters or they don't have great vision etc

Doncic has everything and his problem is he cannot work on his conditioning

How can you gain weight in training camp and then stay the same in tournament?
He was skinny before training camp.What happened i dont know

Mcdonalds too close to their hotel maybe ?

I'm all seriousness, didn't Luka have some little leg injury that he was dealing with during the game?

[ValenciaCeltics]

Fiba is just 90% luck and randomness.

No way. Please read what i just wrote above.
You wrote ur opinion, but use the brain, make the maths.

Fortunately, FIBA basketball is still a 5vs5 game. Usually, the NBA teams who play like that, overachieve (Spurs, Warriors, Celtics...) while most NBA teams who plays 1vs1, underachieve (Nets, Lakers, Knicks...)

[Taikuri]

The guy who kept Poland afloat when Slovenia made the comeback did not look Polish. Another random American signed?

When Slaughter started playing with Poland years ago, if I'm not mistaken the guy had no connection to Poland at all. He's another Tobey and Lorenzo Brown case. If Slaughter wasn't the MVP over Ponitka in that game, minimum he was the second MVP of Poland. Poland would have a true point guard problem without Slaughter.

[Taikuri]

Slovenia is not a deep team, but their superstar is just THAT GOOD, it did elevated the team to gold status at least from perception point of view. This was definitely the biggest upset of the year. This is not beating legit USA team level upset, but this was a huge shocker.

For me the biggest upset of the year was when Italy took out Serbia. I was very convinced that Serbia is the gold medalist of this tournament.

[ValenciaCeltics]

These FIBA tournaments are so luck based it's ridiculous that there are posters who take these results seriously in evaluating player legacies. .

There is some people here saying the same, that FIBA Tournaments are based mainly in luck and randomess.

Anyone who has some knowledge in maths:

-There are 44 countries in Europe. All of them are able to compete in the qualification stage.
-Only 24 advance to the Groups Round
-Only 16 advance to the Knockout stage.
-After that, every round 50% of countries go home.
-STILL, SPAIN HAS REACHED THE FINAL-FOUR 11 OF THE LAST 11 TOURNAMENTS. (100% in last 25 years. Some posters here are younger that that)

-Can any intelligent person actually think that a 100% Semifinals succes in 11 tournaments in a row, where there are 44 teams at the start of the tournament, is based in luck or randomess???

Or maybe there are another reasons (like a group of good players with similar ages, a good coach who is in his job last 13 years, a good job with kids in the national federation...)???


Seriously. If its just randomess and luck, think about the chances of picking 4 random teams out of 44, repeat that 11 times, and same team appears all the 11. Can you make the maths?
Think about it.

Spain torched all youth competitions this summer (male female) and only lost to France U16 female, they won all gold medals for ALL the competitions left, so pls, Spain is still alive !!!!

This.

[UcanUwill]

Some good players miss something, they are not great shooters or they don't have great vision etc

Doncic has everything and his problem is he cannot work on his conditioning

How can you gain weight in training camp and then stay the same in tournament?
He was skinny before training camp.What happened i dont know

Mcdonalds too close to their hotel maybe ?

I'm all seriousness, didn't Luka have some little leg injury that he was dealing with during the game?

I know he had wrist injury, but he seemed like he had many little injuries, guy was clearly playing through pain.

[Mirotic12]

Slovenia is not a deep team, but their superstar is just THAT GOOD, it did elevated the team to gold status at least from perception point of view. This was definitely the biggest upset of the year. This is not beating legit USA team level upset, but this was a huge shocker.

For me the biggest upset of the year was when Italy took out Serbia. I was very convinced that Serbia is the gold medalist of this tournament.

Yes, Italy over Serbia is a much bigger upset than Poland over Slovenia. Slovenia is actually what NBA only fans / Giannis only fans are claiming Greece is. They claim Greece is a one man team, when it is a legit 12 deep team. Then they claim Slovenia as a "favorite", when in reality, it's about the closest to a one man team there is.

Just look at Slovenia's roster, anyone that actually follows European basketball knows Slovenia's roster is quite weak.

Now compare that to Serbia against Italy, where Italy has a fairly weak roster itself, and then you have a quite strong Serbian team.

Yes, objectively speaking, Italy beating Serbia is a much bigger upset than Poland beating Slovenia. And if analysts, predictions, betting, etc. doesn't show that, then it just shows those people don't have a clue what they are talking about.

[Archx]

I'm all seriousness, didn't Luka have some little leg injury that he was dealing with during the game?

He stepped on Muric's foot during 1v1 training 2 days before. The same guy then injured his finger when he tried to help Luka get up when he went down during a drive in the 1st Q. He also had a wrist injury from before that's why he had it tapped almost every game.

Poland was also incredibly physical with him entire game but refs allowed it, so he had some nasty falls and injured his back in the process. During the halftime he received pain injections because he wanted to play on.

[Taikuri]

Slovenia is not a deep team, but their superstar is just THAT GOOD, it did elevated the team to gold status at least from perception point of view. This was definitely the biggest upset of the year. This is not beating legit USA team level upset, but this was a huge shocker.

For me the biggest upset of the year was when Italy took out Serbia. I was very convinced that Serbia is the gold medalist of this tournament.

Yes, Italy over Serbia is a much bigger upset than Poland over Slovenia. Slovenia is actually what NBA only fans / Giannis only fans are claiming Greece is. They claim Greece is a one man team, when it is a legit 12 deep team. Then they claim Slovenia as a "favorite", when in reality, it's about the closest to a one man team there is.

Just look at Slovenia's roster, anyone that actually follows European basketball knows Slovenia's roster is quite weak.

Now compare that to Serbia against Italy, where Italy has a fairly weak roster itself, and then you have a quite strong Serbian team.

Yes, objectively speaking Italy beating Spain is a much bigger upset than Poland beating Slovenia. And if analysts, predictions, betting, etc. doesn't show that, then it just shows those people don't have a clue what they are talking about.

Slovenia's level without Luka = 2 losses vs Finland this year in meaningful World Cup qualifier games. That says a lot about Slovenia's level and they almost lost to Sweden in World Cup qualifier game as well 3 weeks ago, while Luka was playing with them. It was just a matter of time when Luka doesn't have a bulls eye game and Slovenia loses. It was maybe because Luka was injured, but it showed what a one man team Slovenia is. I'll make another comparison to my team Finland and say that Finland was less dependant of Markkanen than Slovenia was of Doncic.

[Mirotic12]

For me the biggest upset of the year was when Italy took out Serbia. I was very convinced that Serbia is the gold medalist of this tournament.

Yes, Italy over Serbia is a much bigger upset than Poland over Slovenia. Slovenia is actually what NBA only fans / Giannis only fans are claiming Greece is. They claim Greece is a one man team, when it is a legit 12 deep team. Then they claim Slovenia as a "favorite", when in reality, it's about the closest to a one man team there is.

Just look at Slovenia's roster, anyone that actually follows European basketball knows Slovenia's roster is quite weak.

Now compare that to Serbia against Italy, where Italy has a fairly weak roster itself, and then you have a quite strong Serbian team.

Yes, objectively speaking Italy beating Spain is a much bigger upset than Poland beating Slovenia. And if analysts, predictions, betting, etc. doesn't show that, then it just shows those people don't have a clue what they are talking about.

Slovenia's level without Luka = 2 losses vs Finland this year in meaningful World Cup qualifier games. That says a lot about Slovenia's level and they almost lost to Sweden in World Cup qualifier game as well 3 weeks ago, while Luka was playing with them. It was just a matter of time when Luka doesn't have a bulls eye game and Slovenia loses. It was maybe because Luka was injured, but it showed what a one man team Slovenia is. I'll make another comparison to my team Finland and say that Finland was less dependant of Markkanen than Slovenia was of Doncic.

Finland actually plays better as a team than Slovenia does, and Finland is I think more physical also. So yeah, I really don't think Poland beating Slovenia is that big of an upset. It is an upset certainly, but not that big of one, and not at all surprising for me.

Poland was very physical and the refs let the game go that way and let both teams play very physical. So it made it where Luka couldn't go off for 40 points, and the rest of the team couldn't do much. Dragic was just flopping trying to get bail outs from the refs. They had nothing on offense really other than Luka.

It's another example of how NBA only fans don't seem to understand FIBA, because Luka can't just make up his mind to get 40 points, like he can in the NBA. The other team is allowed to play real defense and to really compete against star players in FIBA. That is all banned in the NBA. Poland competed against Luka and played physical, so that is that. In the NBA, Luka probably scores 50 in such a game. So it might seem like some huge upset, if that is how you are viewing it, but it's not how it works with these FIBA rules and refs.

On the other hand, Italy beating Serbia was definitely a classic type of upset.

[Taikuri]

Germany is to me the new favorite, they play with fire, really reminds me Slovenia when they won last time !
Good old France and Spain still here ! Spain torched all youth competitions this summer (male female) and only lost to France U16 female, they won all gold medals for ALL the competitions left, so pls, Spain is still alive !!!!

Germany is 99% winning this tournament. Their big men defense is enough to stop the Hernangomez brothers and that already itself is a huge factor. Schröder > Lorenzo Brown big time. The shooting game of Wagner vs Rudy Fernandez is quite close but it probably goes to Wagner in front of the home crowd. Not to forget that Wagner does more things than Rudy now because Wagner is younger. Spain has the better head coach but I don't think that it's enough for Spain to win this game.

Then there is just one more hurdle left for Germany and I assume that it is France. I just feel like Germany beats them too. Germany already beat France by 13 points once in this tournament.

[lambchop]

These FIBA tournaments are so luck based it's ridiculous that there are posters who take these results seriously in evaluating player legacies. It's a crapshoot who wins a Bo1 tournament unless a team is head and shoulders above the rest in talent level and even then you never know what can happen in 1 game. Is it entertaining? Yes and so is March Madness and pulling the lever on a slot machine.

I watch my Kings beat the best teams in the NBA every year...it happens and basketball is getting even more volatile with the focus on the 3pt shot.

Anything can happen in the regular season cause teams simply don't prepare well for opponents, in addition to the games being meaningless anyway.

Being able to play at your very best in a knockout game is also simply a skill in and of itself. While performing in a 7 game series is a different approach where the first game can be a feel out game, you kind of wanna win game three. If you're up 3-1, you can relax the next two games because you're the better team and the better team usually wins game 7 anyway.

[bradybunch]

Luka/Lebron ball strikes again.

Without a super team, it just doesn't maximize team potential.

A damn shame Luka isn't studying MJ instead of LeBron.

[lambchop]

Germany is to me the new favorite, they play with fire, really reminds me Slovenia when they won last time !
Good old France and Spain still here ! Spain torched all youth competitions this summer (male female) and only lost to France U16 female, they won all gold medals for ALL the competitions left, so pls, Spain is still alive !!!!

Germany is 99% winning this tournament. Their big men defense is enough to stop the Hernangomez brothers and that already itself is a huge factor. Schröder > Lorenzo Brown big time. The shooting game of Wagner vs Rudy Fernandez is quite close but it probably goes to Wagner in front of the home crowd. Not to forget that Wagner does more things than Rudy now because Wagner is younger.

Then there is just one more hurdle left for Germany and I assume that it is France. I just feel like Germany beats them too. Germany already beat France by 13 points once in this tournament.

Brown is still the most athletic player Schroeder will play against in this tournament. Schroeder was blowing by everyone this tournament, except for Luka who has size on him. I don't see Schroeder and Lo having such an easy time against the pesky Spanish guards.

Wagner is playing at home, but this is also the biggest game of his career. I think he's a stud, but Rudy played against prime Kobe, so he won't be worried about squat. Franz is definitely the more explosive scorer and can erupt for 30, which is something most likely won't be doing anytime soon.

[Oscar9992]

Luka/Lebron ball strikes again.

Without a super team, it just doesn't maximize team potential.

A damn shame Luka isn't studying MJ instead of LeBron.

Luka had an injuries & played with injections.

[Taikuri]

Yes, Italy over Serbia is a much bigger upset than Poland over Slovenia. Slovenia is actually what NBA only fans / Giannis only fans are claiming Greece is. They claim Greece is a one man team, when it is a legit 12 deep team. Then they claim Slovenia as a "favorite", when in reality, it's about the closest to a one man team there is.

Just look at Slovenia's roster, anyone that actually follows European basketball knows Slovenia's roster is quite weak.

Now compare that to Serbia against Italy, where Italy has a fairly weak roster itself, and then you have a quite strong Serbian team.

Yes, objectively speaking Italy beating Spain is a much bigger upset than Poland beating Slovenia. And if analysts, predictions, betting, etc. doesn't show that, then it just shows those people don't have a clue what they are talking about.

Slovenia's level without Luka = 2 losses vs Finland this year in meaningful World Cup qualifier games. That says a lot about Slovenia's level and they almost lost to Sweden in World Cup qualifier game as well 3 weeks ago, while Luka was playing with them. It was just a matter of time when Luka doesn't have a bulls eye game and Slovenia loses. It was maybe because Luka was injured, but it showed what a one man team Slovenia is. I'll make another comparison to my team Finland and say that Finland was less dependant of Markkanen than Slovenia was of Doncic.

Finland actually plays better as a team than Slovenia does, and Finland is I think more physical also. So yeah, I really don't think Poland beating Slovenia is that big of an upset. It is an upset certainly, but not that big of one, and not at all surprising for me.

Poland was very physical and the refs let the game go that way and let both teams play very physical. So it made it where Luka couldn't go off for 40 points, and the rest of the team couldn't do much. Dragic was just flopping trying to get bail outs from the refs. They had nothing on offense really other than Luka.

It's another example of how NBA only fans don't seem to understand FIBA, because Luka can't just make up his mind to get 40 points, like he can in the NBA. The other team is allowed to play real defense and to really compete against star players in FIBA. That is all banned in the NBA. Poland competed against Luka and played physical, so that is that. In the NBA, Luka probably scores 50 in such a game. So it might seem like some huge upset, if that is how you are viewing it, but it's not how it works with these FIBA rules and refs.

On the other hand, Italy beating Serbia was definitely a classic type of upset.

I agree, but have to say that in NBA they wouldn't let Luka play while he would have an injury like this, unless of course it would be NBA playoffs. Would Dallas even then risk their future though? I'm not sure. If Dallas would know that at some point of the playoffs they would be taken out probably by some team, they wouldn't risk it, but perhaps in the NBA finals they would.

[Nuntius]

. Actually I don't think that Gustavson has Swedish as his language. I've only heard him speaking Finnish. Sometimes in here their surnames might sound more Swedish or Nordic, but they are still just Finnish and English speakers first. In Salin's case, which sounds like a Swedish surname as well, I'm quite sure that he doesn't speak any of that. Madsen I believe has at least one Danish parent, so I assume he has Danish, Swedish or boths as his languages along with Finnish. Jantunen is actually surprisingly a guy that speaks fluent Swedish, although his name doesn't sound Swedish at all. His first name Mikael I guess is a bit more Swedish sounding, but a normal forename in this country though. He speaks Finnish and Swedish well.

Actually, Salin never sounded Swedish to me. I never thought that he was a Swedish-speaker. But, apparently, I was wrong on Madsen and Gustavson so I could be wrong on him too. I'm not a speaker of any of the aforementioned languages, after all

The guy is only 35 years old, so very young for a coach. Kind of fitting for this young new team of Finland. He has already tons of experience though. He has been in the shadows of Dettman. Tuovi has sort of been the head coach for some years now. Dettman had just been the guy that over watched everything, so Dettman stole some fame from Tuovi I guess. It was easy to make the transition of Tuovi being the head coach, because the team had felt for a long time that Tuovi has already been the head coach before. So Dettman left and that gave an assistant coach slot for Teemu Rannikko, who is considered a legend of Finland and a top-5 player of Finland of all time. He just retired as a player a while ago and everyone knew that he will be a coach, even during his career, because he was sort of coaching the other players during team outs already as a player and so on. The entire coaching staff is quite promising.

I see. That's pretty interesting. And, yeah, it made sense that Rannikko would transition to a coaching role. A lot of point guards make that transition. Nate McMillan, Tyronn Lue, Steve Nash, Šarūnas Jasikevičius and the list goes on.