Eurobasket 2022 Finals : SPAIN are European champions!!!

[jezzerinho]

Doncic used to much energy for the referees, better could use it on defence.

I didn't see the game yesterday but i did see the previous one and I have to agree. I think he wastes a lot of mental energy on the perceived injustices. It's waaay excessive.

[zaymon]

Great game and congrats to Poland, but I cannot keep thinking how great and historical this win could have been if they pulled it out with Polish players and without your random american AJ Slaughter.

As for Slaughter, those who say he is not even good, well why is he on the team at all then?

Prediction for the rest of the tournament: France will win the championship.

Slaughter is embracing his polish journay he is definetly part of the team. He makes us proud more than player who would have some connections but didnt put his heart into it.
He definetly has polish heart.

[Luke Skyowner]

One bad night and you are out. This is how random are the fiba and euroleague Final 4s. No time for the better team or better player(s) to recover like the nba playoff series.

Game was long enough. Slo recovered historically and then Pol recovered in the end aswell, they were the better team if considered everyone that was playing. Slo missed Zoran in fast breaks. Random is if someone makes random shot at the end of time and barely wins.

My point is Jokic, Giannis and Luca would easily beat Italy, Germany and Poland in a 7 game series. Hell even in a 5 game series. They will average a near 30p triple double because it's inevitable.

A random great/trash shooting night, or a bizzare bad night for a MVP caliber player or a completely wrong defensive plan from the coach can easily cause an upset. It's happening so many times in the game 1s in the NBA but teams have time to study or get over the bad luck and prevail. For me that's way better to witness.

Eurobasket was fun but I don't even care anymore who wins it now that all the MVPs are out. Spain and France could make the finals without even facing one of them in the knockouts.

Not necessarily. If they have to carry this heavy load, 7 games, there would be high risk of injury, probably their ball clubs even don't let stars to participate. Elimination game works cause of length of game. Star can showcase heavy minutes and still be decent in end of game. In a 48 min span the bench would play too important role and lesser the stars or starting fives impact. If you have off night then don't chuck threes, find a way. It's perfect for me.
It also works cause in EU, teams listen to coaches and they make in game adjustments. They don't have to wait for video room to convince players to make a change.

[The Number 9]

Poland was 2nd in U17 World Cup some years ago, with Ponitka as a leader. I don't know if there is a lot of those players in the current roster, but it could be this generation at his peak.
Still a wonderful and completely unexpected win. I really like this Eurobasket, lots of close games, some upsets, France won 2 thriller games in a row (maybe it's not that great for my health ).

[remi_222]

We all are funny !! Trying to compare what's not comparable ! I've on this forum for yearrrrrrrs and the debate is till going on ! The reason why the debate is still going on is bc we all have different egos and pride based on where we from. The culture is different, the game is different, the context, the pressure, the timing, the rules, ... EVERYTHING is different .... and we still try to compare NBA vs FIBA bball

How abt we enjoy the variery of basketball that can be played all around the world, and that's it ! But i'm not naive, it's going to be on and on and on ...

[Hugi Mancura]

One bad night and you are out. This is how random are the fiba and euroleague Final 4s. No time for the better team or better player(s) to recover like the nba playoff series.

Game was long enough. Slo recovered historically and then Pol recovered in the end aswell, they were the better team if considered everyone that was playing. Slo missed Zoran in fast breaks. Random is if someone makes random shot at the end of time and barely wins.

My point is Jokic, Giannis and Luca would easily beat Italy, Germany and Poland in a 7 game series. Hell even in a 5 game series. They will average a near 30p triple double because it's inevitable.

A random great/trash shooting night, or a bizzare bad night for a MVP caliber player or a completely wrong defensive plan from the coach can easily cause an upset. It's happening so many times in the game 1s in the NBA but teams have time to study or get over the bad luck and prevail. For me that's way better to witness.

Eurobasket was fun but I don't even care anymore who wins it now that all the MVPs are out. Spain and France could make the finals without even facing one of them in the knockouts.

I understand that lot of people just cares individuals and you are made to believe you need superstar's to win, but that is not true in any of the basketball leagues around the world. In NBA maybe... Nice little stab against NBA... But reality is how NBA uses basketball rules makes superstars look better than they truly are compared to other players. They are better even in FIBA, but difference is smaller. That's why you don't need them to win. You can see this also in college basketball.

Giannis Greece team is not good enough to beat Italy or Germany in 7 games series, not with Fiba games. He doesn't have enough shooting around him, so it is very easy to build a tactic to beat that team. Slovenia is also too weak to beat Germany, Italy isn't that great so that would be a touch series. Only way Slovenia can beat Germany would be that Luka has 4 superman games, but that is never happening. You need your team mates to win. Serbia is very good team without Jokic, so they don't need him to win. He makes them better and thats why I think they probably would win 7 games series against any of the teams.

I truly believe that the last foul Doncic got would have never been called in NBA playoff game, if that would have been his sixth foul. NBA protects their stars so much that they sometimes do change the result of the game. Reason why NBA protects their star's are people like you. Casual fan who doesn't care about teams, just want to watch stars. They know fan of a team will show up no matter who plays in the team, but they also know that casual fans care only superstar's, so they have build this frame which makes sure these superstars get what they want. But FIBA doesn't care about this. They know majority of the world are team supporters, so building a system that makes casual fan happy is unnecessary.

[Mavrelous]

I understand that lot of people just cares individuals and you are made to believe you need superstar's to win, but that is not true in any of the basketball leagues around the world. In NBA maybe... Nice little stab against NBA... But reality is how NBA uses basketball rules makes superstars look better than they truly are compared to other players. They are better even in FIBA, but difference is smaller. That's why you don't need them to win. You can see this also in college basketball.

Giannis Greece team is not good enough to beat Italy or Germany in 7 games series, not with Fiba games. He doesn't have enough shooting around him, so it is very easy to build a tactic to beat that team. Slovenia is also too weak to beat Germany, Italy isn't that great so that would be a touch series. Only way Slovenia can beat Germany would be that Luka has 4 superman games, but that is never happening. You need your team mates to win. Serbia is very good team without Jokic, so they don't need him to win. He makes them better and thats why I think they probably would win 7 games series against any of the teams.

I truly believe that the last foul Doncic got would have never been called in NBA playoff game, if that would have been his sixth foul. NBA protects their stars so much that they sometimes do change the result of the game. Reason why NBA protects their star's are people like you. Casual fan who doesn't care about teams, just want to watch stars. They know fan of a team will show up no matter who plays in the team, but they also know that casual fans care only superstar's, so they have build this frame which makes sure these superstars get what they want. But FIBA doesn't care about this. They know majority of the world are team supporters, so building a system that makes casual fan happy is unnecessary.

NBA protect the stars, absolutely, but all of the big 3 dominated the tournament, it took a historic night by their opponent (and in Luka's case a very bad game by him) to beat them, that's the beauty of it, Slovenia was good in 17' but there were better teams that lost because of the knockout.
P.S. the last foul on Luka would've been whistled everywhere, it's the tech he got that was stupid, he simply said he traveled while smiling, and they gave him a tech also Luka drove a lot and was defended very physically, and didn't get a single foul.
France was a much better team in the Olympics than Slovenia, but good effort by the Slovenes, few mistakes by the French down the stretch and it took Batum blocking a game winning layup to advance to the finals.

[Johnny Tomala]

I am Polish. This is big win for us, great success already. I picked France to win this tournament before Eurobasket started. France is better than Slovenia so it will be even tougher. I hope for bronze medal, it would be a letdown to lose two games in the row.

[elillo]

Germany is to me the new favorite, they play with fire, really reminds me Slovenia when they won last time !
Good old France and Spain still here ! Spain torched all youth competitions this summer (male female) and only lost to France U16 female, they won all gold medals for ALL the competitions left, so pls, Spain is still alive !!!!

Germany is 99% winning this tournament. Their big men defense is enough to stop the Hernangomez brothers and that already itself is a huge factor. Schröder > Lorenzo Brown big time. The shooting game of Wagner vs Rudy Fernandez is quite close but it probably goes to Wagner in front of the home crowd. Not to forget that Wagner does more things than Rudy now because Wagner is younger. Spain has the better head coach but I don't think that it's enough for Spain to win this game.

Then there is just one more hurdle left for Germany and I assume that it is France. I just feel like Germany beats them too. Germany already beat France by 13 points once in this tournament.

I agree Germany are favorite against Spain. However, Schroder will be facing Díaz, not just Brown, and I could see Díaz frustrating him. And I could also see Willy getting Germany's bigs in foul trouble (a man can hope).

Anyway, I expect another exciting game, loving the tournament this year.

[DrPampiloni]

Germany is to me the new favorite, they play with fire, really reminds me Slovenia when they won last time !
Good old France and Spain still here ! Spain torched all youth competitions this summer (male female) and only lost to France U16 female, they won all gold medals for ALL the competitions left, so pls, Spain is still alive !!!!

Germany is 99% winning this tournament. Their big men defense is enough to stop the Hernangomez brothers and that already itself is a huge factor. Schröder > Lorenzo Brown big time. The shooting game of Wagner vs Rudy Fernandez is quite close but it probably goes to Wagner in front of the home crowd. Not to forget that Wagner does more things than Rudy now because Wagner is younger. Spain has the better head coach but I don't think that it's enough for Spain to win this game.

Then there is just one more hurdle left for Germany and I assume that it is France. I just feel like Germany beats them too. Germany already beat France by 13 points once in this tournament.

I agree Germany are favorite against Spain. However, Schroder will be facing Díaz, not just Brown, and I could see Díaz frustrating him. And I could also see Willy getting Germany's bigs in foul trouble (a man can hope).

Anyway, I expect another exciting game, loving the tournament this year.

Lorenzo Brown will be guarded by Nick Weiler-Babb. Probably one of the best guard defenders in Europe. It's funny how Spain got their American guy for offence, Germany got him for defence, and they are going to match up tomorrow. Well at least Weiler-Babb has a German grandma apparently.

[AdagioPace]

These FIBA tournaments are so luck based it's ridiculous that there are posters who take these results seriously in evaluating player legacies. .

There is some people here saying the same, that FIBA Tournaments are based mainly in luck and randomess.

Anyone who has some knowledge in maths:

-There are 44 countries in Europe. All of them are able to compete in the qualification stage.
-Only 24 advance to the Groups Round
-Only 16 advance to the Knockout stage.
-After that, every round 50% of countries go home.
-STILL, SPAIN HAS REACHED THE FINAL-FOUR 11 OF THE LAST 11 TOURNAMENTS. (100% in last 25 years. Some posters here are younger that that)

-Can any intelligent person actually think that a 100% Semifinals succes in 11 tournaments in a row, where there are 44 teams at the start of the tournament, is based in luck or randomess???

Or maybe there are another reasons (like a group of good players with similar ages, a good coach who is in his job last 13 years, a good job with kids in the national federation...)???


Seriously. If its just randomess and luck, think about the chances of picking 4 random teams out of 44, repeat that 11 times, and same team appears all the 11. Can you make the maths?
Think about it.

exactly.
Group stages already function as a filter.
Now, the playoffs could in theory reach ideal selectivity but it seems to me there's an outcome bias going on here, aka "given that Serbia, Slovenia, Greece are out, there must be something wrong with the process".
We also know that top 10 teams in FIBA are closer to each other than the top 10 NBA teams.

Also, I don't get what's wrong in rewarding the team that plays better in "game 1". The USA have historically adopted a model, Europe a different one where upsets are more likely. Does it make the entire process wrong intrinsically?

[Pachinko_]

I liked the two game format with point differential breaking the tie.
One game is not enough, 7 is too many.

Sent from my M2101K6G using Tapatalk

[Rasho Brezec]

P.S. the last foul on Luka would've been whistled everywhere, it's the tech he got that was stupid, he simply said he traveled while smiling, and they gave him a tech also Luka drove a lot and was defended very physically, and didn't get a single foul.

Officiating in general has been mind-boggingly inconsistent in this tournament.

Take for example the last play of the game. Polish player clearly goes for the foul so Prepelic wouldn't be able to tie the game with a 3pt shot. Prepelic obviously tries to shoot it to get 3 free throws. Referee even puts his hand up for the foul but changes his mind.

Couple of days before, France - Turkey, 12 seconds to go, similar situation. France down by 2, Luwawu-Cabarrot gets an unsportsmanlike foul for fouling Cedi Osman in a similar fashion.

What's the reasoning here? Intent was the same on both plays. How is it possible for a sport with a clearly defined set of rules to allow the referees so much room for interpretation?

Read on Twitter

[Swuul]

Finland's problem in sports is that ice hockey dominates everything in here and steals a lot of the good talent from other sports.

This, of course isn't true, and never has been true. Football (soccer) has the most licensed players (a bit more than twice what icehockey has) and junior players (about three times more than what icehockey has). While it is true icehockey became the second team-sport in Finland the past decade (getting past the local version of baseball, which has been falling like a rock in popularity), it is no where close to Football (which has about ~140k licensed players and close to half a million people who report football as their hobby-sports (compared to about 70k licensed icehockey players and about 200k people who inform icehockey who report icehockey to be their hobbysports), and the popularity of football is growing, while the popularity of icehockey has been slightly dropping.

In fact, icehockey will probably in the next few years drop behind floorball in popularity. Floorball currently have some 60k licensed players, and they have the past years been getting 2k-3k new licensed players every year.

Basketball too has the recent years been closing the gap with icehockey. There are currently some 20k licensed basketball players, and it increasing in popularity almost as fast as floorball.

[rapskar]

These FIBA tournaments are so luck based it's ridiculous that there are posters who take these results seriously in evaluating player legacies. .

There is some people here saying the same, that FIBA Tournaments are based mainly in luck and randomess.

Anyone who has some knowledge in maths:

-There are 44 countries in Europe. All of them are able to compete in the qualification stage.
-Only 24 advance to the Groups Round
-Only 16 advance to the Knockout stage.
-After that, every round 50% of countries go home.
-STILL, SPAIN HAS REACHED THE FINAL-FOUR 11 OF THE LAST 11 TOURNAMENTS. (100% in last 25 years. Some posters here are younger that that)

-Can any intelligent person actually think that a 100% Semifinals succes in 11 tournaments in a row, where there are 44 teams at the start of the tournament, is based in luck or randomess???

Or maybe there are another reasons (like a group of good players with similar ages, a good coach who is in his job last 13 years, a good job with kids in the national federation...)???


Seriously. If its just randomess and luck, think about the chances of picking 4 random teams out of 44, repeat that 11 times, and same team appears all the 11. Can you make the maths?
Think about it.

exactly.
Group stages already function as a filter.
Now, the playoffs could in theory reach ideal selectivity but it seems to me there's an outcome bias going on here, aka "given that Serbia, Slovenia, Greece are out, there must be something wrong with the process".
We also know that top 10 teams in FIBA are closer to each other than the top 10 NBA teams.

Also, I don't get what's wrong in rewarding the team that plays better in "game 1". The USA have historically adopted a model, Europe a different one where upsets are more likely. Does it make the entire process wrong intrinsically?

They also have single elimination tournaments in the US like the NCAA and the super bowl. Man that Tom Brady dude is a lucky guy indeed winning it so many times...

[UcanUwill]

Slovenia is not a deep team, but their superstar is just THAT GOOD, it did elevated the team to gold status at least from perception point of view. This was definitely the biggest upset of the year. This is not beating legit USA team level upset, but this was a huge shocker.

For me the biggest upset of the year was when Italy took out Serbia. I was very convinced that Serbia is the gold medalist of this tournament.

Those were definitely the two biggest upsets. Of course Jokic has greater talent around him, but Slovenia just looked like such a beast as a mechanism. To me, Polish game was bigger upset, because even though I expected Serbia to beat Italy easily, but I envision possibility of an even game. I had no expectations at all that Poles would even come this close. I thought I will boot Elden ring and just commentary in a background, but nope, it was an insane game, and to me, a crazier upset.

I liked the two game format with point differential breaking the tie.
One game is not enough, 7 is too many.

Personally, I HATE that in basketball. Eurocup or some of these tournaments do that, and it is so stupid. When you watch the first game, you have no clue what to cheer for, you lead by 7, but is it good, it could be bigger lead, you losing by 7, is it really bad, there is no set point what is a W what is an L result, to me, in basketball, it just doesnt work.

This thread should probably come with a warning label...

Just ignore him guys, we all know and see what he is doing, I understand his tactics, because when I was very young and stupid, I used to troll people with same exact comments. It is just sad to know he is not a kid anymore, dude is just sad.

[bravor]

I liked the two game format with point differential breaking the tie.
One game is not enough, 7 is too many.

Sent from my M2101K6G using Tapatalk

for the fun of it, it should be the same for every competition, doing twice the competition to make sure the favorite has the chance to show up

Like doing 2 100m athetic race in the olympics and the gold goes for the guy who sprinted the fastest on both races.
Etc

Joke aside, i am fine with the current elimination round process, not just because of potential upsets (lets not act like it happens every Eurobasket or every world championship, we already know it does not happen in the olympics because of the 12 teams/continental limits) but because at some stage it's like a skill test. If you are going for an exam, you dont ask to pass it again if you messed up. Well, in a competition, you have to accept when your team/players dont show up one day.

Lebanon managed to defeat us in a world championship and as embarrassing as it was for us, it was great for their country/fans/players. And just for France we had many examples (esp. the Parker's ball hog teams).

Even though for this tournament, i maintain that in terms of talent this is one of the less talented french team in a while (compare to what it could be). But it does not mean that with the missing pieces we would have done better. And that's the beauty of this sport (talking about the fiba one )

[LuDux1]

Read on Twitter

[Backcountry]

These FIBA tournaments are so luck based it's ridiculous that there are posters who take these results seriously in evaluating player legacies. .

There is some people here saying the same, that FIBA Tournaments are based mainly in luck and randomess.

Anyone who has some knowledge in maths:

-There are 44 countries in Europe. All of them are able to compete in the qualification stage.
-Only 24 advance to the Groups Round
-Only 16 advance to the Knockout stage.
-After that, every round 50% of countries go home.
-STILL, SPAIN HAS REACHED THE FINAL-FOUR 11 OF THE LAST 11 TOURNAMENTS. (100% in last 25 years. Some posters here are younger that that)

-Can any intelligent person actually think that a 100% Semifinals succes in 11 tournaments in a row, where there are 44 teams at the start of the tournament, is based in luck or randomess???

Or maybe there are another reasons (like a group of good players with similar ages, a good coach who is in his job last 13 years, a good job with kids in the national federation...)???


Seriously. If its just randomess and luck, think about the chances of picking 4 random teams out of 44, repeat that 11 times, and same team appears all the 11. Can you make the maths?
Think about it.

exactly.
Group stages already function as a filter.
Now, the playoffs could in theory reach ideal selectivity but it seems to me there's an outcome bias going on here, aka "given that Serbia, Slovenia, Greece are out, there must be something wrong with the process".
We also know that top 10 teams in FIBA are closer to each other than the top 10 NBA teams.

Also, I don't get what's wrong in rewarding the team that plays better in "game 1". The USA have historically adopted a model, Europe a different one where upsets are more likely. Does it make the entire process wrong intrinsically?

You are comparing FIBA with the NBA. There are two completely different entities, one an international body, the other a professional league designed to make money. Americup is the equivalent (in process, not in popularity or quality) of Eurobasket. It is run the same way, with group stage then single-game elimination. NCAA with March Madness is completely single-game elimination, but after a season of "seeding" made up of scheduled games and tournaments.

And the reason the top 10 teams in FIBA are closer to each other than the top 10 NBA teams is because you can't "buy" a team in FIBA. You have what you have (apart from the "naturalized" players). Except for the U.S.A., most countries cannot produce a team of all-stars. It comes down to their grassroots systems.

The other thing I see on this board is this idea that FIBA only involves European teams. Eurobasket involves European teams; FIBA is world-wide.

[AdagioPace]

There is some people here saying the same, that FIBA Tournaments are based mainly in luck and randomess.

Anyone who has some knowledge in maths:

-There are 44 countries in Europe. All of them are able to compete in the qualification stage.
-Only 24 advance to the Groups Round
-Only 16 advance to the Knockout stage.
-After that, every round 50% of countries go home.
-STILL, SPAIN HAS REACHED THE FINAL-FOUR 11 OF THE LAST 11 TOURNAMENTS. (100% in last 25 years. Some posters here are younger that that)

-Can any intelligent person actually think that a 100% Semifinals succes in 11 tournaments in a row, where there are 44 teams at the start of the tournament, is based in luck or randomess???

Or maybe there are another reasons (like a group of good players with similar ages, a good coach who is in his job last 13 years, a good job with kids in the national federation...)???


Seriously. If its just randomess and luck, think about the chances of picking 4 random teams out of 44, repeat that 11 times, and same team appears all the 11. Can you make the maths?
Think about it.

exactly.
Group stages already function as a filter.
Now, the playoffs could in theory reach ideal selectivity but it seems to me there's an outcome bias going on here, aka "given that Serbia, Slovenia, Greece are out, there must be something wrong with the process".
We also know that top 10 teams in FIBA are closer to each other than the top 10 NBA teams.

Also, I don't get what's wrong in rewarding the team that plays better in "game 1". The USA have historically adopted a model, Europe a different one where upsets are more likely. Does it make the entire process wrong intrinsically?

You are comparing FIBA with the NBA. There are two completely different entities, one an international body, the other a professional league designed to make money. Americup is the equivalent (in process, not in popularity or quality) of Eurobasket. It is run the same way, with group stage then single-game elimination. NCAA with March Madness is completely single-game elimination, but after a season of "seeding" made up of scheduled games and tournaments.

And the reason the top 10 teams in FIBA are closer to each other than the top 10 NBA teams is because you can't "buy" a team in FIBA. You have what you have (apart from the "naturalized" players). Except for the U.S.A., most countries cannot produce a team of all-stars. It comes down to their grassroots systems.

The other thing I see on this board is this idea that FIBA only involves European teams. Eurobasket involves European teams; FIBA is world-wide.

oh agree with you on all fronts
Sorry I'm aware about Eurobasket =/= FIBA of course (even though Eurobasket falls under FIBA europe).