Schroder to Lakers for one year $2.64 million deal

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Re: Schroder to Lakers for one year $2.64 million deal 

Post#101 » by sp6r=underrated » Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:32 pm

DTP wrote:This roster is so incredibly bad....how does Pelinka not get more criticism? Dude has been awful since that championship....absolutely awful.


This really isn't on Pelinka. I see this as an ownership issue + Lebron issue.

Both ownership and Lebron believe in a studs + duds model. They want 3 superstars on long-term max deals and have the rest of the roster filled out ring chasers on veterans minimums. Ownership likes it because superstars sell tickets. And especially in LA which is a star driven city. Lebron has long since made clear he's skeptical of the value of non-superstars.

We can see their focus on names when the Westbrook move turned out to be a disaster. Sides started leaking they were interested in Derozan, a famous player who was having a good year, rather than the smaller moves that could have fixed the roster.

We can see their belief and focus on the 3 superstar model with how quickly they broke up their title team in pursuit of other stars.

It is a lot easier to build a title contender in LA than other cities. With NYC the only possible exception. But the advantage doesn't guarantee titles and you still need shrewd management.

The problem with this model is several:

1. True superstars are actually hard to get even with the LA advantage.
2. Fit is actually an issue with superstars and there is a significant decline in their value for most superstars once you hit 3.
3. The treat everyone else like disposable trash makes it very hard to get other players to commit to your organization. Since they know they are always 1 year away from being replaced it is hard to get players who will fully buy-in.
4. The studs and duds model is highly vulnerable to injury.
5. Name appeal =/= actual playing value. Artest was always a bigger name than Ariza but the Lakers with Ariza were a better club than the Lakers with Artest.

As long as the Lakers focus on this model they'll have a harder time building a title team despite the massive advantage of LA.
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Re: Schroder to Lakers for one year $2.64 million deal 

Post#102 » by Dubious Handles » Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:47 pm

Nice get by the Lakers. Pelinka's philosophy of filling the roster with undersized guards who cannot shoot or defend and his disdain of players with length who can defend might just actually work out this year if Lebron's body holds up and he can play 35min+ a game.
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Re: Schroder to Lakers for one year $2.64 million deal 

Post#103 » by Tracymcgoaty » Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:51 pm

Gosh almighty we sure do love to sign PG's who cant defend or shoot a lick. Gee golly. Gosh darnit...golly gee gosh.
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Re: Schroder to Lakers for one year $2.64 million deal 

Post#104 » by Tracymcgoaty » Sat Sep 17, 2022 3:55 pm

Legit think this coming season will eclipse last season by a mile. By being 10x worse.
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Re: Schroder to Lakers for one year $2.64 million deal 

Post#105 » by bisme37 » Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:00 pm

I gave my scouting report on Schroder based on his time with the C's in another thread. Figure I'll share it here. It's not super flattering, but fair I think.

Spoiler:
I don't know why I feel compelled to write an essay about Dennis Schroder right now lol but here I go.

So, when he was a Celtic last year he wasn't terrible. He had some big individual scoring games and didn't seem to cause any problems behind the scenes. But it didn't translate to team success and his style of play didn't fit the team, and he's honestly pretty annoying to watch.

I said earlier that he's not a point guard, and he's really not. He was the fastest guy on our team but played the slowest. Walked the ball up the court in slow motion and took ages to decide whether he should shoot or pass. You could almost see the wheels turning, he has tunnel vision and playmaking just does not come naturally to him. So the offense would grind to halt when he came in the game. And the gamethreads on the C's board did not enjoy this experience at all haha.

Then if you want to play him at the 2, he's not a very good outside shooter. The things he does well are straight line drives to the basket, and he has a package of moves that get him to his spots for little midrange jumpers. But in the modern NBA, unless a player like that is a true destroyer, he just doesn't provide good spacing and the bad outweighs the good. Especially when he's not passing the ball.

And his defense comes and goes. He's small but capable of guarding. He just doesn't always care about guarding. And in general his motor is inconsistent. In regards to his attitude... it's not that he's a big trouble maker. The guys on the team seemed to like him well enough.

But here's a little anecdote: The Celtics played the Hawks twice in a row early last season. The first game Schroder stunk and did nothing on either end. I was watching the Hawks broadcast for the 2nd game and Dominique Wilkins was commenting. So very early in that game Nique points out his observation that Schroder was much more engaged to start this game than he was in the first game. Wilkins said early in the first game he could instantly tell Schroder had no interest in playing basketball that day and would not be a factor. Which he wasn't. But at the start of the 2nd game Wilkins said he could tell Schroder was energized and locked in and would have a big game. And he did. Dennis was a former Hawk so I guess that's why Nique was paying attention, and with those comments he opened my eyes to Schroder's inconsistent effort, which was an issue for his whole short Celtics career.

And of course there were other factors at work, but when we traded him out for Derrick White, the C's quickly climbed from the bottom of the standings to the top.

This concludes my Dennis Schroder manifesto.
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Re: Schroder to Lakers for one year $2.64 million deal 

Post#106 » by Pharmcat » Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:01 pm

Loneshot wrote:Not sure why Schroder came back or the Lakers wanted him back. It did not work out last time and Schroder often looked uncomfortable on the court. Sounds like the Lakers will be bringing back more of the same. My main joy in watching this season will be Lebron and Reaves. Reaves closed out last season very strong and I know he can be a big part of the team if he's given the minutes. He could low key be the point guard on a team with Lebron.


Pretty sure Schroeder Lebron AD had a positive rating on court compared to be being off court . Denis had a good fiba if he continues that form it’s a good signing
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Re: Schroder to Lakers for one year $2.64 million deal 

Post#107 » by homecourtloss » Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:07 pm

Pharmcat wrote:
Loneshot wrote:Not sure why Schroder came back or the Lakers wanted him back. It did not work out last time and Schroder often looked uncomfortable on the court. Sounds like the Lakers will be bringing back more of the same. My main joy in watching this season will be Lebron and Reaves. Reaves closed out last season very strong and I know he can be a big part of the team if he's given the minutes. He could low key be the point guard on a team with Lebron.


Pretty sure Schroeder Lebron AD had a positive rating on court compared to be being off court. Denis had a good fiba if he continues that form it’s a good signing


Actually, the James/AD/Schroeder trio were a really strong +12.2 per 100 possessions. Now, that also had to do with a better version of AD, a younger version of James, and better role players, but +12.2 is really strong.

James paired well with Schroeder:

James + Caruso: +17.1 per 100 [James+AD+Schroeder+Caruso was +40 per 100; Lakers not bringing back Caruso was the stupidest thing they could have ever done]
James + Matthews: +12.0
James + Davis: +11.3 (only 601 minutes played; a healthy pair makes just as good as 2020)
James + Gasol: +11.0
James + THT: +9.5
James + Schroeder: +9.0
James + Harrell: +7.3
James + Kuzma: +6.8
James + Pope: +6.6
James + Morris: +5.9
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lessthanjake wrote: By playing in a way that prevents Kyrie from getting much impact, LeBron ensures that controlling for Kyrie has limited effect…
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Re: Schroder to Lakers for one year $2.64 million deal 

Post#108 » by Bankai » Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:15 pm

How would Westbrook feel if he became the backup to Schroder and Beverley next season as rumors claim?
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Re: Schroder to Lakers for one year $2.64 million deal 

Post#109 » by RiRuHoops » Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:33 pm

jc23 wrote:Make Russ the assistant athletic manager



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Re: Schroder to Lakers for one year $2.64 million deal 

Post#110 » by Pharmcat » Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:37 pm

homecourtloss wrote:
Pharmcat wrote:
Loneshot wrote:Not sure why Schroder came back or the Lakers wanted him back. It did not work out last time and Schroder often looked uncomfortable on the court. Sounds like the Lakers will be bringing back more of the same. My main joy in watching this season will be Lebron and Reaves. Reaves closed out last season very strong and I know he can be a big part of the team if he's given the minutes. He could low key be the point guard on a team with Lebron.


Pretty sure Schroeder Lebron AD had a positive rating on court compared to be being off court. Denis had a good fiba if he continues that form it’s a good signing


Actually, the James/AD/Schroeder trio were a really strong +12.2 per 100 possessions. Now, that also had to do with a better version of AD, a younger version of James, and better role players, but +12.2 is really strong.

James paired well with Schroeder:

James + Caruso: +17.1 per 100 [James+AD+Schroeder+Caruso was +40 per 100; Lakers not bringing back Caruso was the stupidest thing they could have ever done]
James + Matthews: +12.0
James + Davis: +11.3 (only 601 minutes played; a healthy pair makes just as good as 2020)
James + Gasol: +11.0
James + THT: +9.5
James + Schroeder: +9.0
James + Harrell: +7.3
James + Kuzma: +6.8
James + Pope: +6.6
James + Morris: +5.9


Jeanie being cheap hurt lakers real bad
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Re: Schroder to Lakers for one year $2.64 million deal 

Post#111 » by Pharmcat » Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:40 pm

sp6r=underrated wrote:
DTP wrote:This roster is so incredibly bad....how does Pelinka not get more criticism? Dude has been awful since that championship....absolutely awful.


This really isn't on Pelinka. I see this as an ownership issue + Lebron issue.

Both ownership and Lebron believe in a studs + duds model. They want 3 superstars on long-term max deals and have the rest of the roster filled out ring chasers on veterans minimums. Ownership likes it because superstars sell tickets. And especially in LA which is a star driven city. Lebron has long since made clear he's skeptical of the value of non-superstars.

We can see their focus on names when the Westbrook move turned out to be a disaster. Sides started leaking they were interested in Derozan, a famous player who was having a good year, rather than the smaller moves that could have fixed the roster.

We can see their belief and focus on the 3 superstar model with how quickly they broke up their title team in pursuit of other stars.

It is a lot easier to build a title contender in LA than other cities. With NYC the only possible exception. But the advantage doesn't guarantee titles and you still need shrewd management.

The problem with this model is several:

1. True superstars are actually hard to get even with the LA advantage.
2. Fit is actually an issue with superstars and there is a significant decline in their value for most superstars once you hit 3.
3. The treat everyone else like disposable trash makes it very hard to get other players to commit to your organization. Since they know they are always 1 year away from being replaced it is hard to get players who will fully buy-in.
4. The studs and duds model is highly vulnerable to injury.
5. Name appeal =/= actual playing value. Artest was always a bigger name than Ariza but the Lakers with Ariza were a better club than the Lakers with Artest.

As long as the Lakers focus on this model they'll have a harder time building a title team despite the massive advantage of LA.



The problem is they sign the wrong duds. Why get Lonnie instead of ddv or otto, markieff/tucker (both who went to nets I believe) to bolster the bench with experience , etc. I have no problem with 3 star model but you have to build the duds tactically . They have no 3 and d wingman
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Re: Schroder to Lakers for one year $2.64 million deal 

Post#112 » by Up-And-Coming » Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:45 pm

homecourtloss wrote:
Pharmcat wrote:
Loneshot wrote:Not sure why Schroder came back or the Lakers wanted him back. It did not work out last time and Schroder often looked uncomfortable on the court. Sounds like the Lakers will be bringing back more of the same. My main joy in watching this season will be Lebron and Reaves. Reaves closed out last season very strong and I know he can be a big part of the team if he's given the minutes. He could low key be the point guard on a team with Lebron.


Pretty sure Schroeder Lebron AD had a positive rating on court compared to be being off court. Denis had a good fiba if he continues that form it’s a good signing


Actually, the James/AD/Schroeder trio were a really strong +12.2 per 100 possessions. Now, that also had to do with a better version of AD, a younger version of James, and better role players, but +12.2 is really strong.

James paired well with Schroeder:

James + Caruso: +17.1 per 100 [James+AD+Schroeder+Caruso was +40 per 100; Lakers not bringing back Caruso was the stupidest thing they could have ever done]
James + Matthews: +12.0
James + Davis: +11.3 (only 601 minutes played; a healthy pair makes just as good as 2020)
James + Gasol: +11.0
James + THT: +9.5
James + Schroeder: +9.0
James + Harrell: +7.3
James + Kuzma: +6.8
James + Pope: +6.6
James + Morris: +5.9


Ya, Schroder wasn't bad in the regular season. He was actually a solid point of attack defender, good at straight line drives and solid at drawing fouls and converting them.

20/21 AD was arguably the worst version of AD in his career though. He really dropped off from his championship run and actually took a step forward this past season besides the injuries (his 3 point shot was still broke but his overall impact/energy was at least a little better).
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Re: Schroder to Lakers for one year $2.64 million deal 

Post#113 » by Pointgod » Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:12 pm

sp6r=underrated wrote:
DTP wrote:This roster is so incredibly bad....how does Pelinka not get more criticism? Dude has been awful since that championship....absolutely awful.


This really isn't on Pelinka. I see this as an ownership issue + Lebron issue.

Both ownership and Lebron believe in a studs + duds model. They want 3 superstars on long-term max deals and have the rest of the roster filled out ring chasers on veterans minimums. Ownership likes it because superstars sell tickets. And especially in LA which is a star driven city. Lebron has long since made clear he's skeptical of the value of non-superstars.

We can see their focus on names when the Westbrook move turned out to be a disaster. Sides started leaking they were interested in Derozan, a famous player who was having a good year, rather than the smaller moves that could have fixed the roster.

We can see their belief and focus on the 3 superstar model with how quickly they broke up their title team in pursuit of other stars.

It is a lot easier to build a title contender in LA than other cities. With NYC the only possible exception. But the advantage doesn't guarantee titles and you still need shrewd management.

The problem with this model is several:

1. True superstars are actually hard to get even with the LA advantage.
2. Fit is actually an issue with superstars and there is a significant decline in their value for most superstars once you hit 3.
3. The treat everyone else like disposable trash makes it very hard to get other players to commit to your organization. Since they know they are always 1 year away from being replaced it is hard to get players who will fully buy-in.
4. The studs and duds model is highly vulnerable to injury.
5. Name appeal =/= actual playing value. Artest was always a bigger name than Ariza but the Lakers with Ariza were a better club than the Lakers with Artest.

As long as the Lakers focus on this model they'll have a harder time building a title team despite the massive advantage of LA.


I think there’s enough blame to go around with Lebron, Pelinka and the Lakers ownership. Lebron for turning the Lakers into a finishing school for Klutch Sports clients, ownership for being cheap and not bringing back Caruso however Pelinka is the most to blame for this current **** show. The Westbrook trade was either going to be really good or really bad. It was worse than expected, Pelinka should have moved on from it. Instead he made some uninspiring free agent signings and I can’t get over how bad the THT trade was. They should have showcased THT in the hopes of getting some assets for him. The Beverly trade was always going to be available and I’m pretty sure Utah probably would have waived him. Not sure if it’s him or ownership, but the Lakers should be looking at Westbrook as an expiring and show a willingness to take on longer term salary or dip into the tax if it can get back players that are a better fit.

So I see your point about the broader model being susceptible to failure but Pelinka has a long enough track record that shows that he made some horrible decisions to get to where the roster is today. I’d stilol put the past failed decisions on Lebron and ownership but Pelinka has to own this **** show.
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Re: Schroder to Lakers for one year $2.64 million deal 

Post#114 » by Pointgod » Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:22 pm

Pharmcat wrote:
sp6r=underrated wrote:
DTP wrote:This roster is so incredibly bad....how does Pelinka not get more criticism? Dude has been awful since that championship....absolutely awful.


This really isn't on Pelinka. I see this as an ownership issue + Lebron issue.

Both ownership and Lebron believe in a studs + duds model. They want 3 superstars on long-term max deals and have the rest of the roster filled out ring chasers on veterans minimums. Ownership likes it because superstars sell tickets. And especially in LA which is a star driven city. Lebron has long since made clear he's skeptical of the value of non-superstars.

We can see their focus on names when the Westbrook move turned out to be a disaster. Sides started leaking they were interested in Derozan, a famous player who was having a good year, rather than the smaller moves that could have fixed the roster.

We can see their belief and focus on the 3 superstar model with how quickly they broke up their title team in pursuit of other stars.

It is a lot easier to build a title contender in LA than other cities. With NYC the only possible exception. But the advantage doesn't guarantee titles and you still need shrewd management.

The problem with this model is several:

1. True superstars are actually hard to get even with the LA advantage.
2. Fit is actually an issue with superstars and there is a significant decline in their value for most superstars once you hit 3.
3. The treat everyone else like disposable trash makes it very hard to get other players to commit to your organization. Since they know they are always 1 year away from being replaced it is hard to get players who will fully buy-in.
4. The studs and duds model is highly vulnerable to injury.
5. Name appeal =/= actual playing value. Artest was always a bigger name than Ariza but the Lakers with Ariza were a better club than the Lakers with Artest.

As long as the Lakers focus on this model they'll have a harder time building a title team despite the massive advantage of LA.



The problem is they sign the wrong duds. Why get Lonnie instead of ddv or otto, markieff/tucker (both who went to nets I believe) to bolster the bench with experience , etc. I have no problem with 3 star model but you have to build the duds tactically . They have no 3 and d wingman


Very, very good point. There a couple 2 way guys that signed for what the Lakers signed some of their other free agents for. Not getting a player like Divincenzo or Otto Porter is negligence.
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Re: Schroder to Lakers for one year $2.64 million deal 

Post#115 » by Charlesareed » Sat Sep 17, 2022 6:24 pm

sp6r=underrated wrote:
DTP wrote:This roster is so incredibly bad....how does Pelinka not get more criticism? Dude has been awful since that championship....absolutely awful.


This really isn't on Pelinka. I see this as an ownership issue + Lebron issue.

Both ownership and Lebron believe in a studs + duds model. They want 3 superstars on long-term max deals and have the rest of the roster filled out ring chasers on veterans minimums. Ownership likes it because superstars sell tickets. And especially in LA which is a star driven city. Lebron has long since made clear he's skeptical of the value of non-superstars.

We can see their focus on names when the Westbrook move turned out to be a disaster. Sides started leaking they were interested in Derozan, a famous player who was having a good year, rather than the smaller moves that could have fixed the roster.

We can see their belief and focus on the 3 superstar model with how quickly they broke up their title team in pursuit of other stars.

It is a lot easier to build a title contender in LA than other cities. With NYC the only possible exception. But the advantage doesn't guarantee titles and you still need shrewd management.

The problem with this model is several:

1. True superstars are actually hard to get even with the LA advantage.
2. Fit is actually an issue with superstars and there is a significant decline in their value for most superstars once you hit 3.
3. The treat everyone else like disposable trash makes it very hard to get other players to commit to your organization. Since they know they are always 1 year away from being replaced it is hard to get players who will fully buy-in.
4. The studs and duds model is highly vulnerable to injury.
5. Name appeal =/= actual playing value. Artest was always a bigger name than Ariza but the Lakers with Ariza were a better club than the Lakers with Artest.

As long as the Lakers focus on this model they'll have a harder time building a title team despite the massive advantage of LA.


Fact is the won and ring with both on the respective roster at the time but ariza didn’t even play in the finals where’s arteat did and he hit some clutch shots aswell artest was and is the better player of the 2
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Re: Schroder to Lakers for one year $2.64 million deal 

Post#116 » by sp6r=underrated » Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:14 pm

Charlesareed wrote:
sp6r=underrated wrote:
DTP wrote:This roster is so incredibly bad....how does Pelinka not get more criticism? Dude has been awful since that championship....absolutely awful.


This really isn't on Pelinka. I see this as an ownership issue + Lebron issue.

Both ownership and Lebron believe in a studs + duds model. They want 3 superstars on long-term max deals and have the rest of the roster filled out ring chasers on veterans minimums. Ownership likes it because superstars sell tickets. And especially in LA which is a star driven city. Lebron has long since made clear he's skeptical of the value of non-superstars.

We can see their focus on names when the Westbrook move turned out to be a disaster. Sides started leaking they were interested in Derozan, a famous player who was having a good year, rather than the smaller moves that could have fixed the roster.

We can see their belief and focus on the 3 superstar model with how quickly they broke up their title team in pursuit of other stars.

It is a lot easier to build a title contender in LA than other cities. With NYC the only possible exception. But the advantage doesn't guarantee titles and you still need shrewd management.

The problem with this model is several:

1. True superstars are actually hard to get even with the LA advantage.
2. Fit is actually an issue with superstars and there is a significant decline in their value for most superstars once you hit 3.
3. The treat everyone else like disposable trash makes it very hard to get other players to commit to your organization. Since they know they are always 1 year away from being replaced it is hard to get players who will fully buy-in.
4. The studs and duds model is highly vulnerable to injury.
5. Name appeal =/= actual playing value. Artest was always a bigger name than Ariza but the Lakers with Ariza were a better club than the Lakers with Artest.

As long as the Lakers focus on this model they'll have a harder time building a title team despite the massive advantage of LA.


Fact is the won and ring with both on the respective roster at the time but ariza didn’t even play in the finals where’s arteat did and he hit some clutch shots aswell artest was and is the better player of the 2


Yes they won both years but they were clearly worse in 09 than 10 by all statistical metrics. And your thinking that just because an individual player is better than another a player that means they are a better a player for a specific team is what lead to terrible GMing.

Fit matters.
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Re: Schroder to Lakers for one year $2.64 million deal 

Post#117 » by GunnerWRX » Sat Sep 17, 2022 8:24 pm

It’s vet min. Why so many outlets report “$2.6M” like it wasn’t a min contract?
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Re: Schroder to Lakers for one year $2.64 million deal 

Post#118 » by Johnny Bball » Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:19 pm

It's been a long time since a good player took a pay cut or crap one year deal just to ring chase with Lebron James.
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Re: Schroder to Lakers for one year $2.64 million deal 

Post#119 » by JimmyPlopper » Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:23 pm

Russell Westbrook / Dennis Schroeder / Austin Reaves
Patrick Beverley / Kendrick Nunn / Max Christie
LeBron James / Lonnie Walker IV / Troy Brown
Anthony Davis / Juan Toscano-Anderson / Wenyen Gabriel
Thomas Bryant / Damian Jones
a slave stood behind the conqueror holding a golden crown, and whispering in his ear a warning: that all glory is fleeting
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Re: Schroder to Lakers for one year $2.64 million deal 

Post#120 » by HMFFL » Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:00 pm

DTP wrote:This roster is so incredibly bad....how does Pelinka not get more criticism? Dude has been awful since that championship....absolutely awful.
The Lakers don't seem to know how to even blame anybody else but Russ. I'd like to see both Pelinka and Lebron receive more criticism.

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