What Happened to the 2004 USA Olympic Team?

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Re: What Happened to the 2004 USA Olympic Team? 

Post#81 » by Mirotic12 » Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:25 pm

seren wrote:2002 was worse.


Yeah, once the serious games started, 2002 Team USA had no chance against the other teams. And they were playing at home too...

Americans NBA only fans always tend to forget the 2002 disaster and the 2006 failure. They also almost always seem to conveniently forget the 2019 World Cup team, which objectively speaking, was by far the worst Team USA with NBA players ever. That 2019 USA team was physically and athletically outmatched by any of the other good teams in the tournament.

The 2004 team was actually better than 2002 and 2019 teams. But there is that whole American NBA only fan attitude of "we don't consider the FIBA World Cup to be an actual thing that exists" attitude.....so because of that, the 2004 team actually gets a worse rep and legacy (of "worst Team USA ever") than it actually deserved.
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Re: What Happened to the 2004 USA Olympic Team? 

Post#82 » by Nate505 » Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:33 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
seren wrote:2002 was worse.


Yeah, once the serious games started, 2002 Team USA had no chance against the other teams. And they were playing at home too...

Americans NBA only fans always tend to forget the 2002 disaster and the 2006 failure. They also almost always seem to conveniently forget the 2019 World Cup team, which objectively speaking, was by far the worst Team USA with NBA players ever. That 2019 USA team was physically and athletically outmatched by any of the other good teams in the tournament.

The 2004 team was actually better than 2002 and 2019 teams. But there is that whole American NBA only fan attitude of "we don't consider the FIBA World Cup to be an actual thing that exists" attitude.....so because of that, the 2004 team actually gets a worse rep and legacy (of "worst Team USA ever") than it actually deserved.


Who gives a ****, it's the World Cup. That's nowhere near as catastrophic as losing the Olympics.

And it's not just the US fans who don't give a ****, it's the US players who don't.
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Re: What Happened to the 2004 USA Olympic Team? 

Post#83 » by Mirotic12 » Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:34 pm

Sedale Threatt wrote:First one you can just chalk up to a bad tournament. Second was proof of systemic failure, at which point USA Basketball responded. Perhaps if 02 had been the Olympics it would have prompted a super immediate reaction. But it barely registered given that it was the Worlds and I don't think that was an irrational chain of events that prompted the overhaul. Two tournaments in two years isn't exactly being asleep at the wheel.

And yes, of course 06 was a disappointment. Massively so, in fact, and easily our biggest since we revamped. Talent was off the charts, everybody was all in, etc etc. We should have won that tournament and would have 98 out of 100 times. Because I do remember that game, very vividly because of how agonizing it was to watch, and Greece will not play like that at that stage in a major tournament against an opponent of that caliber in another 100 years.

Regardless, the details of the game don't really matter. Unless you think never, ever losing under any circumstance is a realistic goal, perfection is simply impossible even with the massive edge in talent we will have in almost all of these games.

The 04 Olympics sucked because of all the circumstances leading up to it. It was embarrassing. But I'm 100 pct satisfied that we gave it our best effort in 06 and just got beat. Not best performance -- that would have precluded getting totally dismantled by pick-and-rolls -- but, for the most part, best effort. At the very least we got full by-in from the players, and when that happens we're almost unbeatable. As our ridiculous record since we started using pros will attest.


The 2006 World Cup semifinal wasn't even the best game that Greek team played. The best game they ever played was the 2007 EuroBasket semifinal against Spain, on Spain's home floor. They were missing some key players (Antonis Fotsis / Big Sofo) due to injury, and were playing against a full Spain, with Pau, Navarro, Rudy, etc., etc. all in their prime.

And even then, Spain, at home, needed the refs to help them, to pull the win out. The refs made 4 really bad calls that were to help Spain and push them to the final of the tournament, as they were the hosts. If the reffing was even, Greece would have won the game.

Then Spain lost the final by one point against Russia, to what was probably the best team Russia ever had, and they said after the game that they were completely exhausted after the game against Greece, and that it took their greatest possible effort to beat Greece, which left them with almost nothing left in the tank against Russia. Greece's players said the same thing, that they had nothing in the tank left for the bronze medal game against Lithuania.

Again, that was with Greece missing some key players, against a full golden era Spain, being at it's absolute peak time (2006-2008), being at home, and having the refs help them. If the refs just stay out of that game down the stretch, that would have been an even greater accomplishment and more legendary Greek win than the 2006 USA game was.

So Greece actually topped that 2006 USA game performance, just one year later, and not 100 years later.
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Re: What Happened to the 2004 USA Olympic Team? 

Post#84 » by Sedale Threatt » Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:39 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:First one you can just chalk up to a bad tournament. Second was proof of systemic failure, at which point USA Basketball responded. Perhaps if 02 had been the Olympics it would have prompted a super immediate reaction. But it barely registered given that it was the Worlds and I don't think that was an irrational chain of events that prompted the overhaul. Two tournaments in two years isn't exactly being asleep at the wheel.

And yes, of course 06 was a disappointment. Massively so, in fact, and easily our biggest since we revamped. Talent was off the charts, everybody was all in, etc etc. We should have won that tournament and would have 98 out of 100 times. Because I do remember that game, very vividly because of how agonizing it was to watch, and Greece will not play like that at that stage in a major tournament against an opponent of that caliber in another 100 years.

Regardless, the details of the game don't really matter. Unless you think never, ever losing under any circumstance is a realistic goal, perfection is simply impossible even with the massive edge in talent we will have in almost all of these games.

The 04 Olympics sucked because of all the circumstances leading up to it. It was embarrassing. But I'm 100 pct satisfied that we gave it our best effort in 06 and just got beat. Not best performance -- that would have precluded getting totally dismantled by pick-and-rolls -- but, for the most part, best effort. At the very least we got full by-in from the players, and when that happens we're almost unbeatable. As our ridiculous record since we started using pros will attest.


The 2006 World Cup semifinal wasn't even the best game that Greek team played. The best game they ever played was the 2007 EuroBasket semifinal against Spain, on Spain's home floor. They were missing some key players due to injury, and were playing against a full Spain, with Pau, Navarro, Rudy, etc., etc. all in their prime.

And even then, Spain, at home, needed the refs to help them, to pull the win out. The refs made 4 really bad calls that were to help Spain and push them to the final of the tournament, as they were the hosts. If the reffing was even, Greece would have won the game.

Then Spain lost the final by one point against Russia, to what was probably the best team Russia ever had, and they said after the game that they were completely exhausted after the game against Greece, and that it took their greatest possible effort to beat Greece, which left them with almost nothing left in the tank against Russia. Greece's players said the same thing, that they had nothing in the tank left for the bronze medal game against Lithuania.

Again, that was with Greece missing some key players, a full golden era Spain being at it's absolute peak (2006-2008), being at home, and having the refs help them.

If the refs just stay out of, that would have been an even greater accomplishment and more legendary win than the USA game was.

So Greece actually topped that performance, just a one year later, and not 100 years later.


But they lost.
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Re: What Happened to the 2004 USA Olympic Team? 

Post#85 » by Mirotic12 » Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:43 pm

Sedale Threatt wrote:But they lost.


It doesn't matter. They only lost because of the refs, and it was in a game with overwhelming odds against them. They lost the 2006 final to Spain by 23 points, and Pau didn't even play in that game. Every time I have read opinions on that game from the sports writers that were there, every single time they said Greece's performance in the game was amazing, considering what they were facing.

The Redeem Team would NOT have beaten peak Spain, on Spain's home floor, against a hostile crowd, and with the refs very clearly helping Spain. The Redeem Team would have LOST. Just the fact that the game was not decided like until the last 30 seconds or so, was a better performance than their game against USA in 2006.

And something for you to grasp, when you imply that the 2006 game against the USA was a fluke miracle........Greece's leading scorer and go to player on offense, from the 2005 EuroBasket gold medal winning team was Nikos Zisis. Zisis didn't even play against the USA, as he was injured.

So Greece beat the USA WITHOUT their leading scorer and go to player from the 2005 EuroBasket gold medal team.
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Re: What Happened to the 2004 USA Olympic Team? 

Post#86 » by Sedale Threatt » Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:54 pm

Mirotic12 wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:But they lost.


It doesn't matter. They only lost because of the refs, and it was in a game with overwhelming odds against them. They lost the 2006 final to Spain by 23 points, and Pau didn't even play in that game. Every time I have read opinions on that game from the sports writers that were there, every single time they said Greece's performance in the game was amazing, considering what they were facing.

The Redeem Team would NOT have beaten peak Spain, on Spain's home floor, against a hostile crowd, and with the refs very clearly helping Spain. The Redeem Team would have LOST. Just the fact that the game was not decided like until the last 30 seconds or so, was a better performance than their game against USA in 2006.

And something for you to grasp, when you imply that the 2006 game against the USA was a fluke miracle........Greece's leading scorer and go to player on offense, from the 2005 EuroBasket gold medal winning team was Nikos Zisis. Zisis didn't even play against the USA, as he was injured.

So Greece beat the USA WITHOUT their leading scorer and go to player from the 2005 EuroBasket gold medal team.


lol, of course winning matters. It's the only thing that matters. I've been following sports for 30-plus years, and the day I take solace in some moral victory is the day I go find another hobby. Sheer foolishness.

The rest of your post is a perfect example why nobody respects you. It's a BS hypothetical based in your twisted biases rather than anything approaching intelligent analysis. It's not like Spain has ever beaten us before.
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Re: What Happened to the 2004 USA Olympic Team? 

Post#87 » by elchengue20 » Sun Sep 18, 2022 5:55 pm

The team was terribly built.

Overall they had no shooting at all, also ball dominant guards. Bad combinasion, even more in a FIBA setting.

We were also still at a time when USA thought they didn't have to build any team chemistry and just throwing talent on the court was enough.

It makes you realize how far the understanding of the game has come. No one in their right mind would build a team like that today when you have a huge talent pool to choose from.
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Re: What Happened to the 2004 USA Olympic Team? 

Post#88 » by Scoots1994 » Sun Sep 18, 2022 7:16 pm

ellobo wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
ellobo wrote:In the semis against Argentina, Tim Duncan fouled out in 20 minutes (I'm not sure if he actually committed any, but he was called for 5). LeBron played 3 minutes, Amar'e played 2, and Carmelo didn't play. Wade was 1-8 in 19 minutes.

To me, a team relying Iverson, Marbury, Odom, Marion, Boozer, and Richard Jefferson screams bronze medal all the way.


Hi Tim.


Damn, time to come clean. I'd knew someone would figure it out some time.

This is really Tim Duncan's burner account ;-)

Seriously, I still remember the incredulity on Duncan's face at some of those calls, and I remember having the same reaction watching on TV.


I know a Tim Duncan here in Texas and you sir are no Tim Duncan.
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Re: What Happened to the 2004 USA Olympic Team? 

Post#89 » by AussieBuck » Sun Sep 18, 2022 8:47 pm

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AussieBuck wrote:You have to look at the big picture for the root cause. Michael Jordan's success exploiting the illegal defense rules that had traditionally been leveraged for post bigs changed the meta for NBA offenses.

The early 2000s was awash with slow paced, iso plays for driving perimeter players. Iverson, Stackhouse (29.8PPG in 01!!), McGrady, Kobe, Marbury etc. Pace was down, ball movement at a minimum and shooting skills devalued. The game was a gimmick that fell apart when faced with normal basketball rules and concepts in international competition.

The NBA rule changes from 2005 that allowed zones and all but removed illegal defense was what brought the NBA game back by incentivising shooting and ball movement to create real spacing and now the game is much closer to the real thing. Clean up the absurd reffing and you'd have a way more talented version of FIBA ball which would **** rock.


The NBA doesn't allow zone defense. It's an obviously fake myth that it allows zone defense. If you have the defensive 3 seconds rule, then there is no zone defense allowed.

What the NBA has is a so-called "psuedo-zone" defense, in which an actual real zone defense, with defenders being allowed to crowd the pain area, being banned.

No basketball competition in the world (except the NBA), considers that to be an actual zone defense. Just because the in-game NBA announcers call it a zone defense, does not mean that it actually is a zone defense. It's just another one of the NBA's marketing gimmicks.

You really should stick to one or two threads at a time to showcase your lack of basketball knowledge. You're going to burn yourself out. Also Spanoulis is a minor league basketball player who was the worst player I've ever seen in the big league.
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Re: What Happened to the 2004 USA Olympic Team? 

Post#90 » by Phish Tank » Mon Sep 19, 2022 2:05 am

1) As was pointed out earlier in the thread, international basketball was a lot more competitive than before the millenium hit. The way the teams were built circa 2000 just wouldn't cut it anymore. Team ball was important more than ever. The NBA was very ISO heavy around that time (I don't necessarily blame em - it helped make the league some top $ while Jordan was in his 2nd retirement).

2) Many of the top players in the NBA weren't playing in the Olympics for various reasons (age, injuries, criminal cases, security). We didn't see the best of the best players from 2002-2006.

3) Coaching egos got in the way in 2002 (George Karl) and 2004 (Larry Brown)
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Re: What Happened to the 2004 USA Olympic Team? 

Post#91 » by prophet_of_rage » Mon Sep 19, 2022 2:14 am

They played zone on Tim Duncan with a guy fronting him and a guy in back of him. The USA team couldn't shoot well enough to counter it.

Then the individual play was a killer and the young guya did not really play.

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Re: What Happened to the 2004 USA Olympic Team? 

Post#92 » by Lalouie » Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:34 am

Liam_Gallagher wrote:This team was insane on paper. They had the following STUDS:

- Tim Duncan in his prime (won back-to-back MVPs in 2002 and 2003)
- Allen Iverson in his prime (won MVP in 2001)
- Shawn Marion in his prime
- Stephon Marbury in his prime

They also had young Amare Stoudamire, prime Lamar Odom, young Carlos Boozer, prime Richard Jefferson

We also can't forget that they had young LeBron, Wade, and Carmelo.

What went wrong? IMO Duncan deserves more blame for this. If they won bronze with Kobe we wouldn't let him see the light of day.


seriously,,,,,there's nothing "insane" about this roster and the end result reflects it
insane was the dream team, so rank '04 starting with that
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Re: What Happened to the 2004 USA Olympic Team? 

Post#93 » by Pablo Escobar » Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:45 am

Kobe didn't play.
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Re: What Happened to the 2004 USA Olympic Team? 

Post#94 » by zimpy27 » Mon Sep 19, 2022 5:10 am

The squad was weak but it was the guards that were the main issue IMO.

AI, Marbury and Wade just didn't bring enough shooting and playmaking.

Duncan, Boozer, Amare were fine as bigs.

The wings were ok with Marion, Odom, LeBron. LeBron should have had Jeffersons' minutes though.
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Re: What Happened to the 2004 USA Olympic Team? 

Post#95 » by LakersLegacy » Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:02 am

It was a total embarrassment. And that’s why the redeem teams winning the gold was such a big deal. Especially for LeBron, Melo and Wade
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Re: What Happened to the 2004 USA Olympic Team? 

Post#96 » by NO-KG-AI » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:53 am

Tim really does get off easy here. He was completely disengaged at certain points and was so concerned with not getting calls he normally gets for just seeking contact, that he let it fluster him. He looked pretty checked out kind of quick, which is sort of understandable, but like others said, if this had been the other guys from the era (Kobe, KG, McGrady, Carter, etc) they would have been eviscerated by the NBA media.

I wish Duncan and Garnett would have played on the 2008 team though. They were still so awesome defensively, and their shooting stroke and passing ability would have made that team even more deadly.
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Re: What Happened to the 2004 USA Olympic Team? 

Post#97 » by Curmudgeon » Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:00 pm

I remember LeBron complaining about every call and non-call while the FIBA refs just looked back at him and smirked. Who does this kid think he is?

Iverson also spent half his time on the court trying to dribble through zones.
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Re: What Happened to the 2004 USA Olympic Team? 

Post#98 » by dhsilv2 » Mon Sep 19, 2022 1:19 pm

dc wrote:-I'd add that if it was any other NBA superstar other than Duncan, he would've gotten a lot of flak for this. Imagine Lebron retiring after a FIBA tournament because he didn't like the officiating. He would've never heard the end of that. Duncan somehow "retired" from FIBA competition very quietly.


The spurs were also just at the start of minute management with Duncan in 2004. It was just not a good idea for a star like him to play and Duncan was mature enough to understand that. Also...why deal with stupid refs over a glorified pickup game?
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Re: What Happened to the 2004 USA Olympic Team? 

Post#99 » by dc » Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:49 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
dc wrote:-I'd add that if it was any other NBA superstar other than Duncan, he would've gotten a lot of flak for this. Imagine Lebron retiring after a FIBA tournament because he didn't like the officiating. He would've never heard the end of that. Duncan somehow "retired" from FIBA competition very quietly.


The spurs were also just at the start of minute management with Duncan in 2004. It was just not a good idea for a star like him to play and Duncan was mature enough to understand that. Also...why deal with stupid refs over a glorified pickup game?


Ginobili and Parker continued playing internationally for many more years, all while being load managed by the Spurs. I believe Ginobili even played in 2016 when he was 38.
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Re: What Happened to the 2004 USA Olympic Team? 

Post#100 » by Joao Saraiva » Mon Sep 19, 2022 4:12 pm

What happened is that you can't play Marbury and Allen Iverson in one game series. They're players that will shoot you out of the game in the wrong day.

Marbury won the game alone vs Spain... and then they just failed and shot the team out of the game.

Tim Duncan was never a factor because the backourt just wouldn't give the ball for others to play. Was awful to watch, and it wasn't just the elimination game.
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