Offseason thread vol 9 - RUN IT BYK

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Cut the dribble handoffs with the screen merchants out and tell Bam to score. We’ll see how right ICC was with this new scheme. If Duncan Strus and Herro can’t score in isolation situations that’s on them; have them stand in the corner or have the 4 setting screens

[contract]

We can't compare decade old salaries to now....Gordon signed a max or near max deal to leave the Clippers and head to New Orleans.

Gordon was a starter at the time and he was traded to New Orleans for CP3. The following season the Hornets matched a max offer that Gordon got from the Suns. Things didn't work out like they thought they would.

My point is pay him or trade him. Watching one of our only 2 20 ppg scorers walk out the door because we paid Duncan Robinson isn't an argument I intend on having. Especially with the likelihood that Jimmy's game isn't going to age well. And frankly he should ask for a trade if that's how it's lining up. What's the point of playing company man and "Oh you're the sixth starter that closes games" if it's used against you come contract time.

I don't understand getting this invested in a guy like Herro.

I know I've said it before, but I will say it again. People seriously underestimate Spo's ability to make limited players look better than they are. Memories are crazy short. In '19-20 it was Kendrick Nunn Rookie of the Month for November, December, And January, and 1st team all rookie. Two years later we let him walk like we couldn't care less. He's making $5 million a year now. Spo created point Winnie. He made enough of a player out of Tyler Johnson that some stupid team gave him an oversized offer that some other stupid team was stupid enough to match. Obviously you know about Duncan. Obviously you remember the legend of DWait. He made James Johnson look like a valuable contributor. He turned Richardson into a valuable asset. Remember Hassan Whiteside? Nobody wanted him. He left here and he's a vet minimum guy again.

I don't understand fans getting invested in guys who are not special. I don't understand fans demanding that guys who are not special get paid as if they are.

What's the point of Herro playing company man? The point is that he's a role player and acting up isn't going to help him get paid.

Not extending Herro now isn't about overpaying Duncan, it's about preserving the ability to trade him, and it's about him not meriting the kind of money he wants. Herro has an offensive stars game (give me the ball on offense and never mind defense), but he's not an offensive star. He's not on that level.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

The league is full of Herros

[Kobewade11]

Yurt instead of playing with the national team in the Eurobasket, he chose to stay in Miami and prepare for the new season individually. I expect a lot from him in the new season.

I thought the team didnt give him permission?

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Heat didn’t give Yurt or Jovic permission

[Grumpy Heat Fan]

holy f the dolphins were insane today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2-0 baby!!!!!!

[IceColdCubano]

holy f the dolphins were insane today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2-0 baby!!!!!!

What world are we living in at this moment.... The Dolphins actually coming back and showing some fire!!!

[Hallstar]

We can't compare decade old salaries to now....Gordon signed a max or near max deal to leave the Clippers and head to New Orleans.

Gordon was a starter at the time and he was traded to New Orleans for CP3. The following season the Hornets matched a max offer that Gordon got from the Suns. Things didn't work out like they thought they would.

My point is pay him or trade him. Watching one of our only 2 20 ppg scorers walk out the door because we paid Duncan Robinson isn't an argument I intend on having. Especially with the likelihood that Jimmy's game isn't going to age well. And frankly he should ask for a trade if that's how it's lining up. What's the point of playing company man and "Oh you're the sixth starter that closes games" if it's used against you come contract time.

I don't understand getting this invested in a guy like Herro.

I know I've said it before, but I will say it again. People seriously underestimate Spo's ability to make limited players look better than they are. Memories are crazy short. In '19-20 it was Kendrick Nunn Rookie of the Month for November, December, And January, and 1st team all rookie. Two years later we let him walk like we couldn't care less. He's making $5 million a year now. Spo created point Winnie. He made enough of a player out of Tyler Johnson that some stupid team gave him an oversized offer that some other stupid team was stupid enough to match. Obviously you know about Duncan. Obviously you remember the legend of DWait. He made James Johnson look like a valuable contributor. He turned Richardson into a valuable asset. Remember Hassan Whiteside? Nobody wanted him. He left here and he's a vet minimum guy again.

I don't understand fans getting invested in guys who are not special. I don't understand fans demanding that guys who are not special get paid as if they are.

What's the point of Herro playing company man? The point is that he's a role player and acting up isn't going to help him get paid.

Not extending Herro now isn't about overpaying Duncan, it's about preserving the ability to trade him, and it's about him not meriting the kind of money he wants. Herro has an offensive stars game (give me the ball on offense and never mind defense), but he's not an offensive star. He's not on that level.

I don't normally get behind these dudes. I was against Waiters, against Johnson, against Winslow, against Nunn. All of those deals. Heat fans tend to fall in love with "grit and a story". Herro isn't some plucky try hard that's just happy to be in the NBA and some fans don't like it. Probably have to go back to Whiteside for a young dude I liked for better or worse.

I care about the talent level of the team, I see offensive potential in Herro that this team frankly doesn't have going forward otherwise. Some don't and that's fine. Yes he needs to get better on defense, it's also Spo's job to have a system that caters to the players he has. He's not the first player to have defensive limitations. If your system is that restrictive, why waste the draft pick? His measurements weren't gonna change.

[al bondiga]

One week away from training camp, I think this is going to be the most important season in Bam’s career and its going to dictate the trajectory for the rest of his career. If he takes open jumpers consistently, attacks the rim with force consistently, and attempts the occasional 3 I think there is still potential for exponential growth. If its more of the same passive stuff then I think he’s at his ceiling.

yes I also think bams NBA life is defined this upcoming season... but spo has a role in it... he has to stop playing the center position or maybe just do it once every 5 games... bam has to demand this because spo won't force him... this is basically why I don't consider spo to be in my top 20 coaches all time

spo vision of the future is distorted when it comes to Bam he has taken the name to heart or to a wall

[Flash4thewin]

https://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/smoy.html

Some guys (stars) you pay a ton of money to. Some guys (role players) you pay < DRob money. Some guys you sit back and watch as they sign with another team for ~ the veteran minimum. That 6th man award should not be a ticket to a huge contract regardless. 6th men don't break the bank and are frequently signed/re-signed to bargain deals and passed around the league like a fruit cake at Christmas.

Clarkson earned $12 mil last season, is earning $13 mil this season, and is owed $14 mil next season if he picks up his player option.

Harrell earned $6 mil for the Clippers his 6th man season, $9 mil the season after that from the Lakers, < $10 mil last season from Wizards/Hornets, and he just signed with the 76ers for peanuts.

Lou Williams earned $7 mil & $8 mil from the Clippers in the two seasons he won 6th man for them, then he earned $8 mil, $8 mil, and $5 mil last season.

Eric Gordon earned $12 mil his 6th man season, and then earned $13 mil, $13.5 mil, $14 mil, $17 mil, $18 mil, and is owed $20 mil & $21 mil these next two seasons.

Unless the Heat determine that Herro is a star player, he should not get a huge contract. He can heat up, but he has significant holes in his game. Giving Herro more than ~ $20 mil to $25 mil per will make him a neutral to negative asset. More than that range would just make it worse. Unless the Heat determine that Herro is a star player in the making, they need to hold the line on his salary or trade him.

I’m not sure these are fair comparisons. Lou William won 6th man in his 14th years in the league, Herro won in his 3rd year. Eric Gordon got hurt and that was reflected in his salary and on court production. It’s a lot easier to say hey i just dont like Herro than to compare him and his production to a 14 year old vet player, that’s just ridiculous when one thinks about it.

What does his age matter? Unless the Heat determines that he's going to become a star player ... THIS is his level whether he's 22 or 42.

Age matter greatly, unless you feel Herro is a finished product and will not get better at all. Again we are comparing a 3 year player to a 14 year player, age matter greatly. Personally i would have traded Herro to get Butler help but our front office thinks differently, then again they voluntarily signed Lowry and Duncan to 180 dollar contracts so

[_GH0ST_]

Yurt instead of playing with the national team in the Eurobasket, he chose to stay in Miami and prepare for the new season individually. I expect a lot from him in the new season.

I thought the team didnt give him permission?

Yurt announced on Twitter that he did not play of his own accord.

[Kobewade11]

Yurt instead of playing with the national team in the Eurobasket, he chose to stay in Miami and prepare for the new season individually. I expect a lot from him in the new season.

I thought the team didnt give him permission?

Yurt announced on Twitter that he did not play of his own accord.

Heat reporters also announced on Twitter the team did not give Turkey permission for him to play.

[twix2500]

The absence of PJ Tucker will create a "Need for corner 3 for hire".

In the Spo offense and what the go-too players on this team needs around them, the corner three specialist is very important and will get a lot of open looks. That is one of the main reason why Tucker was so important to this team offense because that is one area he was great at. Its one of the areas that kept players like Nunn from good to being a great scorer in the Heat offense.

Players that will likely take up that roles are Strus, Duncan, Vincent and Herro. And that means players who will spend a lot of time in the corner.

2021-22 regular season coner threes %

Max Strus: Left Corner 49% - Right Corner 49%
Duncan Robinson: Left Corner 42% - Right Corner 42%
Tyler Herro: Left Corner 46% - Right Corner 39%
Gave Vincent: Left Corner 44% - Right Corner 39%
Caleb Martin: Left Corner 40% - Right Corner 41%

X-Factor Players who may get corner spot up shot role is Yurtseven and Bam. They have both been working on it in the offseason but its up to Spo to design an offense that will get them opportunities to take those shots

[instagram]https://www.instagram.com/reel/CURKTEUD57Y/?hl=en[/instagram]

Watch on YouTube

Based off last season right now it appears that Strus would be the leading candidate to fill that role. That was his bread and butter last year. Specifically in the starting lineup a spot up corner three player specialist will be spending a lot of time there.

[eddieheatfan]

holy f the dolphins were insane today!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

2-0 baby!!!!!!

that comeback in the second half was the stuff of legends lol

[_GH0ST_]

I thought the team didnt give him permission?

Yurt announced on Twitter that he did not play of his own accord.

Heat reporters also announced on Twitter the team did not give Turkey permission for him to play.

I think Yurt is a more reliable source.

[carnageta]

One week until training camp? Lets Gooooo

[Kobewade11]

Yurt announced on Twitter that he did not play of his own accord.

Heat reporters also announced on Twitter the team did not give Turkey permission for him to play.

I think Yurt is a more reliable source.

Lol

[Kobewade11]

Read on Twitter

[MHeat0279]

We can't compare decade old salaries to now....Gordon signed a max or near max deal to leave the Clippers and head to New Orleans.

Gordon was a starter at the time and he was traded to New Orleans for CP3. The following season the Hornets matched a max offer that Gordon got from the Suns. Things didn't work out like they thought they would.

My point is pay him or trade him. Watching one of our only 2 20 ppg scorers walk out the door because we paid Duncan Robinson isn't an argument I intend on having. Especially with the likelihood that Jimmy's game isn't going to age well. And frankly he should ask for a trade if that's how it's lining up. What's the point of playing company man and "Oh you're the sixth starter that closes games" if it's used against you come contract time.

I don't understand getting this invested in a guy like Herro.

I know I've said it before, but I will say it again. People seriously underestimate Spo's ability to make limited players look better than they are. Memories are crazy short. In '19-20 it was Kendrick Nunn Rookie of the Month for November, December, And January, and 1st team all rookie. Two years later we let him walk like we couldn't care less. He's making $5 million a year now. Spo created point Winnie. He made enough of a player out of Tyler Johnson that some stupid team gave him an oversized offer that some other stupid team was stupid enough to match. Obviously you know about Duncan. Obviously you remember the legend of DWait. He made James Johnson look like a valuable contributor. He turned Richardson into a valuable asset. Remember Hassan Whiteside? Nobody wanted him. He left here and he's a vet minimum guy again.

I don't understand fans getting invested in guys who are not special. I don't understand fans demanding that guys who are not special get paid as if they are.

What's the point of Herro playing company man? The point is that he's a role player and acting up isn't going to help him get paid.

Not extending Herro now isn't about overpaying Duncan, it's about preserving the ability to trade him, and it's about him not meriting the kind of money he wants. Herro has an offensive stars game (give me the ball on offense and never mind defense), but he's not an offensive star. He's not on that level.

I don't normally get behind these dudes. I was against Waiters, against Johnson, against Winslow, against Nunn. All of those deals. Heat fans tend to fall in love with "grit and a story". Herro isn't some plucky try hard that's just happy to be in the NBA and some fans don't like it. Probably have to go back to Whiteside for a young dude I liked for better or worse.

I care about the talent level of the team, I see offensive potential in Herro that this team frankly doesn't have going forward otherwise. Some don't and that's fine. Yes he needs to get better on defense, it's also Spo's job to have a system that caters to the players he has. He's not the first player to have defensive limitations. If your system is that restrictive, why waste the draft pick? His measurements weren't gonna change.

Usually the problem with us posters here is that sometimes we go to the extremes with our point of view. Herro was very important last year in us getting that first seed and finishing with a good record ( people tend to forget ) But it is obvious he has a few flaws and disadvantages still in his game ( this is the reason i am against to pay him a lot of money ) we already made the same mistake with Bam, paying him like a star and he simple at this point in time he is not, i have serious doubts he will become one. I know this crazy market is the one dictating max player money, but its crazy how players who are not even stars are getting a cr ap load of money and handcapping teams to improve. I think Lawry's contract will look a little better this upcoming year with him in better shape and hopefully not missing that many games. Herro has been an important piece in our team, no doubt but not to fork 30 mil per year.

[3ammy3uck3ts]

Gordon was a starter at the time and he was traded to New Orleans for CP3. The following season the Hornets matched a max offer that Gordon got from the Suns. Things didn't work out like they thought they would.


I don't understand getting this invested in a guy like Herro.

I know I've said it before, but I will say it again. People seriously underestimate Spo's ability to make limited players look better than they are. Memories are crazy short. In '19-20 it was Kendrick Nunn Rookie of the Month for November, December, And January, and 1st team all rookie. Two years later we let him walk like we couldn't care less. He's making $5 million a year now. Spo created point Winnie. He made enough of a player out of Tyler Johnson that some stupid team gave him an oversized offer that some other stupid team was stupid enough to match. Obviously you know about Duncan. Obviously you remember the legend of DWait. He made James Johnson look like a valuable contributor. He turned Richardson into a valuable asset. Remember Hassan Whiteside? Nobody wanted him. He left here and he's a vet minimum guy again.

I don't understand fans getting invested in guys who are not special. I don't understand fans demanding that guys who are not special get paid as if they are.

What's the point of Herro playing company man? The point is that he's a role player and acting up isn't going to help him get paid.

Not extending Herro now isn't about overpaying Duncan, it's about preserving the ability to trade him, and it's about him not meriting the kind of money he wants. Herro has an offensive stars game (give me the ball on offense and never mind defense), but he's not an offensive star. He's not on that level.

I don't normally get behind these dudes. I was against Waiters, against Johnson, against Winslow, against Nunn. All of those deals. Heat fans tend to fall in love with "grit and a story". Herro isn't some plucky try hard that's just happy to be in the NBA and some fans don't like it. Probably have to go back to Whiteside for a young dude I liked for better or worse.

I care about the talent level of the team, I see offensive potential in Herro that this team frankly doesn't have going forward otherwise. Some don't and that's fine. Yes he needs to get better on defense, it's also Spo's job to have a system that caters to the players he has. He's not the first player to have defensive limitations. If your system is that restrictive, why waste the draft pick? His measurements weren't gonna change.

Usually the problem with us posters here is that sometimes we go to the extremes with our point of view. Herro was very important last year in us getting that first seed and finishing with a good record ( people tend to forget ) But it is obvious he has a few flaws and disadvantages still in his game ( this is the reason i am against to pay him a lot of money ) we already made the same mistake with Bam, paying him like a star and he simple at this point in time he is not, i have serious doubts he will become one. I know this crazy market is the one dictating max player money, but its crazy how players who are not even stars are getting a cr ap load of money and handcapping teams to improve. I think Lawry's contract will look a little better this upcoming year with him in better shape and hopefully not missing that many games. Herro has been an important piece in our team, no doubt but not to fork 30 mil per year.

So you don’t mind Lowry making $30M but Bam making less than that last year and $30M this coming season is too much for you?

Bam is a star, he’s known league wide as the 3rd or 4th best player at his position. He’s the best defender in the world while averaging 19 points and anywhere from 3-5 assists. The key piece to the teams defense and a major part of the offense, we basically run every action through him. I hate to break it to you brother but he’s a star and any team in the league would pay him this max.