How long should the Wolves give the Gobert/Towns expirment?

[King Malta]

I think you give it two years. Dependent on a number of factors, if we've won a playoff series in that window then I think that that qualifies as the bare minimum to keep the core of the squad together and try to add around the fringes.

For me a failure and then a consideration of moving one of KAT/Gobert would be if we miss the playoffs at all with a healthy squad or fail to win a play-off series in either of the first two seasons.

[Wolveswin]

It must be the whiskey talking, but I am going to sound very optimistic.

Draft picks. That is all this experiment is risking. And unless Edwards is abducted by aliens and Towns retires, we are simply talking surrendering a draft pick that is say 12th vs 22nd (in 2023 and maybe again in 2025). And let’s not derail this thread with the very low hit rate of late lotto or worse 20 something draft picks.

So that means in 2-3 years one of the centers is traded and Wolves build around Edwards - with the other (probably Gobert) still remaining. Either center (Towns most likely because holding more value) secures in trade a player the caliber of say SGA today (place holder for: not a center-young-not-star-yet-player Wolves could get in exchange).

Wolves reshuffle and in 2027 hand Ainge a 26th overall pick and then in 2029, who knows (that is damn far away).

[Shaka_Zulu]

Games? Try 5 minutes you optimistic rube.

If we aren't hoisting the trophy by opening night we should just fold the team.

How bold would it be to fire Finch at halftime of opening night if we don’t have the lead?

I mean we’d still get less press than the Lakers, but some people would talk…

If KAT even misses a shot he's getting shipped to Sacramento

[Klomp]

As excited as this season looks, there's a chance this trade could be a failure. I can't help but to think about the Sixers when they got Horford and Embiid together. Horford struggled as a 4 in the Sixers system. There's a chance Kat could struggle at the the 4 in the Wolves system. I know Kat is a better three point shooter but defending 4's and shooting the 3 as a 4 could be totally different. Do you give it one system and if it fails, pull the plug or give it 2 seasons.

The BEST shooter Philadelphia surrounded Horford and Embiid with that season was Tobias Harris (.367 on 5.0 3FGs). Josh Richardson shot .341 on 4.5 3FGAs. Ben Simmons shot .286 on 0.1 3FGAs.

Volume matters in efficiency. Edwards' .357 on 8.4 3FAs outweighs Harris' percentages, just like Russell's .340 on 8.0 3FGAs outweighs Richardson's percentages. And then McDaniels compared to Simmons is a joke in perimeter shooting discussions. So not only is Towns a much better shooter than either Embiid or Horford, but defenses also have to account for a greater perimeter threat in their defensive coverages. I also believe Chris Finch is a far better coach than Brett Brown. He will figure out what needs to be done.

[Klomp]

Another difference between Towns/Gobert and Horford/Embiid: Towns and Gobert are at the tops of their game, each among the Top 15-20 in the entire league, regardless of position. Horford was never near that level, especially when Philadelphia acquired him.

[KGdaBom]

If we are healthy and finish close to where we did last year, it will probably feel like a big failure, especially if we lose in the first round. Many will want to blow it up. The bar is higher now. So it really depends on how it plays out, how things look. If its a matter of KAT and Gobert looking like they cannot play together then yea, changes will probably come a lot quicker.

What if it looks like Russell and Gobert can't play together? What if it looks like KAT and Anderson can't play together. What if it looks like Bryn Forbes and and Austin Rivers can't play together. This is just BS. There is no particular reason why any of our players can't play together. If we suck which I think will not happen it's not because of a failed experiment. It's because we didn't play as well as we should have.

I think the only way things could go really wrong is specifically if our two top 5 centers can't play well together. Their talent alone should be able to bouy any decent team to being competitive. Even if Dlo or whoever has a down year, those two being great should keep us afloat. If there is an issue with a lesser player like Dlo, Anderson, etc. we can more easily get rid of them and retool. If there is an issue with KAT and Rudy, that's a way bigger problem to address because we have so much invested in both of them.

My intent was to be sarcastic and mocking. Yes if Rudy and KAT for some very strange reason don't play well together it will have a more negative impact than if Forbes and Austin can't play well together. I just see no reason to discuss them not playing well together.

[KGdaBom]

Another difference between Towns/Gobert and Horford/Embiid: Towns and Gobert are at the tops of their game, each among the Top 15-20 in the entire league, regardless of position. Horford was never near that level, especially when Philadelphia acquired him.

Horford at his best was very good. I loved him and Milsap on the good Atlanta teams.

[Klomp]

Another difference between Towns/Gobert and Horford/Embiid: Towns and Gobert are at the tops of their game, each among the Top 15-20 in the entire league, regardless of position. Horford was never near that level, especially when Philadelphia acquired him.

Horford at his best was very good. I loved him and Milsap on the good Atlanta teams.

Very good, yes. But his only all-NBA third team appearance was in his age 24 season. Horford was 33 when the Sixers traded for him.

Gobert has been all-NBA four times (24, 26, 27, 28) and Towns twice (22, 26). It's just a different level.

[KGdaBom]

Another difference between Towns/Gobert and Horford/Embiid: Towns and Gobert are at the tops of their game, each among the Top 15-20 in the entire league, regardless of position. Horford was never near that level, especially when Philadelphia acquired him.

Horford at his best was very good. I loved him and Milsap on the good Atlanta teams.

Very good, yes. But his only all-NBA third team appearance was in his age 24 season. Horford was 33 when the Sixers traded for him.

Gobert has been all-NBA four times (24, 26, 27, 28) and Towns twice (22, 26). It's just a different level.

True, but you did say Horford was never near that level. In his age 24 season he was clearly near that level.

[minimus]

Another difference between Towns/Gobert and Horford/Embiid: Towns and Gobert are at the tops of their game, each among the Top 15-20 in the entire league, regardless of position. Horford was never near that level, especially when Philadelphia acquired him.

Horford played very good last year. He was the main reason BOS reached Finals, he also is the main reason why I am concerned about BOS future, they simply cannot replace his production right now, and he obviously will decline fast in the very near future.

[KGdaBom]

Another difference between Towns/Gobert and Horford/Embiid: Towns and Gobert are at the tops of their game, each among the Top 15-20 in the entire league, regardless of position. Horford was never near that level, especially when Philadelphia acquired him.

Horford played very good last year. He was the main reason BOS reached Finals, he also is the main reason why I am concerned about BOS future, they simply cannot replace his production right now, and he obviously will decline fast in the very near future.

Horford did experience a renaissance last year that surprised the hell out of me. Did he and Robert Williams share the floor much at all? I'm going to Google that and see what I can find out.

15 minutes a game together. Not bad at all.

Not only did Horford find the fountain of youth to play at the 4, but the tandem worked in concert extremely well. Last season, the combination of Horford and Rob Williams played 15 minutes per game together.

I'm guessing the Wolves play KAT and Gobert together 24 minutes at most.

[Klomp]

Horford at his best was very good. I loved him and Milsap on the good Atlanta teams.

Very good, yes. But his only all-NBA third team appearance was in his age 24 season. Horford was 33 when the Sixers traded for him.

Gobert has been all-NBA four times (24, 26, 27, 28) and Towns twice (22, 26). It's just a different level.

True, but you did say Horford was never near that level. In his age 24 season he was clearly near that level.

Well, fair. But the center position has seen a resurgence in the near-decade since. It was on it's last breath back then. The all-NBA centers were Dwight Howard (worthy), Amar'e Stoudemire (a "center") and Horford. The next centers after them were Bogut, Bynum and Chandler. Not quite the same as competing for spots with Embiid, Jokic, etc.

[KGdaBom]

Very good, yes. But his only all-NBA third team appearance was in his age 24 season. Horford was 33 when the Sixers traded for him.

Gobert has been all-NBA four times (24, 26, 27, 28) and Towns twice (22, 26). It's just a different level.

True, but you did say Horford was never near that level. In his age 24 season he was clearly near that level.

Well, fair. But the center position has seen a resurgence in the near-decade since. It was on it's last breath back then. The all-NBA centers were Dwight Howard (worthy), Amar'e Stoudemire (a "center") and Horford. The next centers after them were Bogut, Bynum and Chandler. Not quite the same as competing for spots with Embiid, Jokic, etc.

Yep and Horford was a smaller (6'9" 240), more mobile, and better 3 point shooting center than the traditional center.
I was thinking we drafted Brewer over Horford, but that was wrong. Which Florida player was it we should have selected instead of Brewer. It was Noah.

[Klomp]

After a full seasons of ups and downs, I am hoping to continue to lean into this.

But I think it's important to note that we had two of the most unique role players in the league to help make this style possible: Kyle Anderson and Naz Reid. I don't think the system would be rendered completely ineffective without them, but I do believe potentially losing Reid this summer would be damaging to what the team was trying to build.

As of today, my personal rotation going into next season would be Conley / Edwards / McDaniels / Towns / Gobert with Anderson / Reid (hopefully) / Prince / Alexander-Walker (hopefully) off the bench. Yes, you read that right, as of today I'm not sure I want any significant changes and would rather just run it back. I'm personally not a big fan of most of this free agency class in general, and especially for this system. There's only a couple potential targets I have and one of them probably is out of our price range.

[urinesane]

After a full seasons of ups and downs, I am hoping to continue to lean into this.

But I think it's important to note that we had two of the most unique role players in the league to help make this style possible: Kyle Anderson and Naz Reid. I don't think the system would be rendered completely ineffective without them, but I do believe potentially losing Reid this summer would be damaging to what the team was trying to build.

As of today, my personal rotation going into next season would be Conley / Edwards / McDaniels / Towns / Gobert with Anderson / Reid (hopefully) / Prince / Alexander-Walker (hopefully) off the bench. Yes, you read that right, as of today I'm not sure I want any significant changes and would rather just run it back. I'm personally not a big fan of most of this free agency class in general, and especially for this system. There's only a couple potential targets I have and one of them probably is out of our price range.

Same. Just because a flight experiences a bit of turbulence, doesn't mean it's destined to crash. Ride out the tough times and make it to smoother skies... or you can do like many here want, which is an emergency landing followed by firing the whole crew.

[Krapinsky]

The playoffs have changed my mindset. I'm thinking we run it back. The Nuggets loss was disappointing and my initial reaction to the end of the season was to want to trade Kat. I still think the Kat/Gobert duo is incredibly flawed but I'm willing to wait another year to be proven wrong. I always need to remind myself that in the NBA you need two things to win--- talent and consistency. Without the latter, you just can't win. That's why a lot of so-called 'super teams' fail. It takes more than a season to find that consistency, establish an identity, and for everyone to know their role within the greater team framework. The Wolves have acquired talent. Now we need to let them mesh.

These Nuggets and Heat teams are great examples of the need to be patient and let teams figure it out. Teams like the Lakers, Sixers, Suns, Mavs etc. are examples of impatient ownership and GMs that find themselves on the playoff treadmill, elevated with star power, but lacking the requisite chemistry.

This team lacked consistency this year and the season was basically a throwaway due to Kat's injury and the midseason trade. At the end we were short handed and gassed, but for a few weeks in April you could see something developing-- a spark if you will. I'm hoping Connelly is patient enough to see if that spark can ignite something greater next year.

[frankenwolf]

The playoffs have changed my mindset. I'm thinking we run it back. The Nuggets loss was disappointing and my initial reaction to the end of the season was to want to trade Kat. I still think the Kat/Gobert duo is incredibly flawed but I'm willing to wait another year to be proven wrong. I always need to remind myself that in the NBA you need two things to win--- talent and consistency. Without the latter, you just can't win. That's why a lot of so-called 'super teams' fail. It takes more than a season to find that consistency, establish an identity, and for everyone to know their role within the greater team framework. The Wolves have acquired talent. Now we need to let them mesh.

These Nuggets and Heat teams are great examples of the need to be patient and let teams figure it out. Teams like the Lakers, Sixers, Suns, Mavs etc. are examples of impatient ownership and GMs that find themselves on the playoff treadmill, elevated with star power, but lacking the requisite chemistry.

This team lacked consistency this year and the season was basically a throwaway due to Kat's injury and the midseason trade. At the end we were short handed and gassed, but for a few weeks in April you could see something developing-- a spark if you will. I'm hoping Connelly is patient enough to see if that spark can ignite something greater next year.

Well said!
Well Said!!

[Nick K]

After a full seasons of ups and downs, I am hoping to continue to lean into this.

But I think it's important to note that we had two of the most unique role players in the league to help make this style possible: Kyle Anderson and Naz Reid. I don't think the system would be rendered completely ineffective without them, but I do believe potentially losing Reid this summer would be damaging to what the team was trying to build.

As of today, my personal rotation going into next season would be Conley / Edwards / McDaniels / Towns / Gobert with Anderson / Reid (hopefully) / Prince / Alexander-Walker (hopefully) off the bench. Yes, you read that right, as of today I'm not sure I want any significant changes and would rather just run it back. I'm personally not a big fan of most of this free agency class in general, and especially for this system. There's only a couple potential targets I have and one of them probably is out of our price range.

Yep. That's sound thinking. I've been on record to trade Rudy now, admit the mistake and move on. After thinking about it I'd give Rudy one more season to see. I'll charge off last season as the season from hell. It sucked the life out of me to the point of apathy. Not good.

That said, I'm on the mend at least a little. Knowing we have Mike Conley going in and a full camp with Rudy, Ant and Kat we can be as good as I thought we'd be last year. NAW is a big improvement and an extra year of Garza and Minott excites me. I'd like to see them re-sign Reid but I think he moves on.

What are they going to do with Moore? We need a backup PG. Time to move on from J Mac, Nowell, Rivers, Knight and Ryan.

[Nick K]

The playoffs have changed my mindset. I'm thinking we run it back. The Nuggets loss was disappointing and my initial reaction to the end of the season was to want to trade Kat. I still think the Kat/Gobert duo is incredibly flawed but I'm willing to wait another year to be proven wrong. I always need to remind myself that in the NBA you need two things to win--- talent and consistency. Without the latter, you just can't win. That's why a lot of so-called 'super teams' fail. It takes more than a season to find that consistency, establish an identity, and for everyone to know their role within the greater team framework. The Wolves have acquired talent. Now we need to let them mesh.

These Nuggets and Heat teams are great examples of the need to be patient and let teams figure it out. Teams like the Lakers, Sixers, Suns, Mavs etc. are examples of impatient ownership and GMs that find themselves on the playoff treadmill, elevated with star power, but lacking the requisite chemistry.

This team lacked consistency this year and the season was basically a throwaway due to Kat's injury and the midseason trade. At the end we were short handed and gassed, but for a few weeks in April you could see something developing-- a spark if you will. I'm hoping Connelly is patient enough to see if that spark can ignite something greater next year.

Good points! I do think it would be a terrible move to trade Kat unless we got back a fortune and that won't happen. Trading Kat for a couple of decent players and the #3 pick for example is a total loser and idiotic in my mind. The draft is such a total crap shoot.

Your comments on impatient ownership and consistency are are so right on. I'm going to try to forget about last year. We have the makings of a very good team.

My advice to Finch is quit trying to make Rudy an offensive star and stop making Kat into Jokic. Just let these guys do what they do best and leave it at that. OK, Kat can be a little like Jokic. He has the tools.

[wolves_89]

I'd be extremely happy to see the Wolves bring back what I consider their top 8 in Conley, Ant, McDaniels, Towns, Gobert, NAW, Anderson, and Reid. The only roster tinkering I'd look at would be around finding a way to turn the Prince/McLaughlin/Knight salary into a competent backup PG.