Hoopshype Executive Survey: Top Players Under 25 to Build Around

[MotownMadness]

I expect 2-3 Magic players on the list next season.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Franz is getting underrated but its a tough list to crack. But yeah Franz and Banchero could easily crack this list next year although I'm not sure who the 3rd guy is your talking about.

[yosemiteben]

I'm a bit floored at how Melo seems to be such an afterthought in this thread. At 20 years old he posted 20-7-8 and shot 39% from three on almost 8 attempts per game.

He's got 4 more seasons before he's 25.

As a Hornets fan, call me a homer, but I'm really confused at the lack of hype here.

[Jabroni Lames]

I think Ja is a bit too high though he brings a lot of intangibles so I get it. SGA is too low.

Regarding Mobely/Scottie/Cade, I'll post what I put into the Raptors board: do I think Scottie has a higher ceiling than Mobley? I do but I am willing to admit that I'm biased. Do I think Mobley's span of outcomes is better than Scottie's span of outcomes? Without a doubt. Mobley has already proven that he can be the anchor of your defense. Scottie has not proven anything yet other than he will be a starter in this league. I think the ratings are fair between them. Cade just needs to prove more. If you are going to be ball dominant, you have to showcase that you can take over. We'll see if he climbs.

Also lol at Trae Young. Hawks fans probably losing it right now.

Did Mobley really prove to be an anchor of the Cavs defense? Not 100% sure about that. When Jarrett Allen got injured, the Cavs defense faltered down the stretch; however, Mobley did compensate with improved offense.

It does feel like Mobley was handed the "next Tim Duncan" crown far too early. And it's going to be really hard to tell who is the real anchor of the Cavs defense, when you've got 2 potential All-Defense guys back there. Kind of like a Duncan-Robinson lite.

[Roger Murdock]

What’s great is a lot of this is just how you feel about the players

Ja is the ‘safe’ pick at 3 but his play style is reckless and his impact on winning might be a little overrated given how the Grizzlies were better without him, but he’s clearly already a superstar talent and one of the most fun Players I’ve ever seen in the NBA

I think he can be argued as high as 2. I also think you can argue him quiet a bit lower based on player archetype and injury concerns




Guys like Cade, Barnes, Edwards, Mobley, Garland etc have tons of wiggle room too.

I truly, genuinely believe in Garland and would put him third. I think he’s wildly underrated and has the winning player archetype. I think he’s 85% Nash 85% Curry. I’ve been buying all his stock since he’s as Vandy and I’m gonna keep buying more. I think he’s a sneaky dark horse MVP candidate one day the same way Nash and Curry came outta nowhere to win. I love his game and think he’s big time and the kind of guy who will keep growing exponentially

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Lamelo is getting underrated here. Def bullish on that kid. Better advanced stats (PER/WS/BPM/VORP), better feel for the game, way better playmaking compared to Anthony Edwards.

"underrated" when he's a top 10 player to build around.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

I'm a bit floored at how Melo seems to be such an afterthought in this thread. At 20 years old he posted 20-7-8 and shot 39% from three on almost 8 attempts per game.

He's got 4 more seasons before he's 25.

As a Hornets fan, call me a homer, but I'm really confused at the lack of hype here.

i wouldn't get too upset tbh. its more a of what have you done for me lately list and being top 10 in a very talented list isn't being underrated at all. all of these players are great building blocks.

[Wall_To_Clips]

I'm a bit floored at how Melo seems to be such an afterthought in this thread. At 20 years old he posted 20-7-8 and shot 39% from three on almost 8 attempts per game.

He's got 4 more seasons before he's 25.

As a Hornets fan, call me a homer, but I'm really confused at the lack of hype here.

He’s a phenomenal prospect for sure. I’d have him in my top 5 ish area of players to build around. I’m also biased to big point guards.

[shakes0]

What’s great is a lot of this is just how you feel about the players

Ja is the ‘safe’ pick at 3 but his play style is reckless and his impact on winning might be a little overrated given how the Grizzlies were better without him, but he’s clearly already a superstar talent and one of the most fun Players I’ve ever seen in the NBA

I think he can be argued as high as 2. I also think you can argue him quiet a bit lower based on player archetype and injury concerns




Guys like Cade, Barnes, Edwards, Mobley, Garland etc have tons of wiggle room too.

I truly, genuinely believe in Garland and would put him third. I think he’s wildly underrated and has the winning player archetype. I think he’s 85% Nash 85% Curry. I’ve been buying all his stock since he’s as Vandy and I’m gonna keep buying more. I think he’s a sneaky dark horse MVP candidate one day the same way Nash and Curry came outta nowhere to win. I love his game and think he’s big time and the kind of guy who will keep growing exponentially

what puts Garland ahead of Trae for you? He's never had as good a season as Trae, they play the same position and they are both terrible defenders. So how do you justify Garland at 3rd yet you don't even mention Trae anywhere in your post?

[God Squad]

What’s great is a lot of this is just how you feel about the players

Ja is the ‘safe’ pick at 3 but his play style is reckless and his impact on winning might be a little overrated given how the Grizzlies were better without him, but he’s clearly already a superstar talent and one of the most fun Players I’ve ever seen in the NBA

I think he can be argued as high as 2. I also think you can argue him quiet a bit lower based on player archetype and injury concerns




Guys like Cade, Barnes, Edwards, Mobley, Garland etc have tons of wiggle room too.

I truly, genuinely believe in Garland and would put him third. I think he’s wildly underrated and has the winning player archetype. I think he’s 85% Nash 85% Curry. I’ve been buying all his stock since he’s as Vandy and I’m gonna keep buying more. I think he’s a sneaky dark horse MVP candidate one day the same way Nash and Curry came outta nowhere to win. I love his game and think he’s big time and the kind of guy who will keep growing exponentially

what puts Garland ahead of Trae for you? He's never had as good a season as Trae, they play the same position and they are both terrible defenders. So how do you justify Garland at 3rd yet you don't even mention Trae anywhere in your post?

Why are you so sensitive to the fact people don't rate Trae as highly as Hawks fans. I personally like Trae, but I'd like to build my team with as many two-way players as possible, especially at point guard.

The Raptors in particular have an identity that Trae just doesn't fit in the slightest. But another guard like SGA for example would fit like a glove, regardless if SGA perceived value seems lower or isn't equal.

[Roger Murdock]

What’s great is a lot of this is just how you feel about the players

Ja is the ‘safe’ pick at 3 but his play style is reckless and his impact on winning might be a little overrated given how the Grizzlies were better without him, but he’s clearly already a superstar talent and one of the most fun Players I’ve ever seen in the NBA

I think he can be argued as high as 2. I also think you can argue him quiet a bit lower based on player archetype and injury concerns




Guys like Cade, Barnes, Edwards, Mobley, Garland etc have tons of wiggle room too.

I truly, genuinely believe in Garland and would put him third. I think he’s wildly underrated and has the winning player archetype. I think he’s 85% Nash 85% Curry. I’ve been buying all his stock since he’s as Vandy and I’m gonna keep buying more. I think he’s a sneaky dark horse MVP candidate one day the same way Nash and Curry came outta nowhere to win. I love his game and think he’s big time and the kind of guy who will keep growing exponentially

what puts Garland ahead of Trae for you? He's never had as good a season as Trae, they play the same position and they are both terrible defenders. So how do you justify Garland at 3rd yet you don't even mention Trae anywhere in your post?

Nothing against Trae as I’d have him 4 behind Luka/Tatum/Garland and I completely agree that Trae has been a better player thus far. Ultimately it comes down to a gut feel about Garland being special more than anything as well as some differences in their play styles that I think will allow Garland to blossom into a more dangerous weapon because of his offball game. For a more detailed rational here are my thoughts…

Garland is much better at defense. I think categorizing them as ‘both terrible’ sort of buries the point and is intentionally misleading. This is something I got on Cavs fans for years when they called Sexton ‘a similar player to Mitchell and McCollom’… having similar strengths and weaknesses doesn’t make you a similar player. A student who gets Bs in Math and Science and Cs in English and History isn’t the same type of student as someone who gets As in Math and Science and Bs in English and History even though their strengths and weaknesses are similar. So Garland might be a below average defensively but Trae is probably the worst starting defensive guard in the NBA. Garland is a C level defender who might become a B level defender. Trae is an F level defender who might become a C level one.

Garland is also elite offball and should get a lot of opportunities to shine doing that this year for Cleveland now that we unloaded Sexton and got better passers and dribbles. I’m also a huge believer in Young as offball player but I’m unsure if he will get an opportunity to do that and he has historically had the ball for 50%+ of Hawks possessions. This is primarily a player development thing and I’m concerned the Hawks are going too far down a one man army approach which I think curbs a teams development. I want to see how the trade impacts their back court because Trae playing more offball is going to be an enormous unlock if they go for it. If they don’t I will be tremendously disappointed in Hawks leadership.


Essentially it’s a few things:
1. I trust the development path Garland is on more than Traes because I am concerned the Hawks are reenforcing bad habits that will be hard to break and think the ISO/hero all limits a teams ceiling and I think the Cavs are highly prioritizing a more team based approach that will allow Garland to shine offball

2. Garland is an acceptable level defender

3. Everything I see about Garland as a person makes me believe in him as a long term prospect

Nothing anti Trae at all I think he’s the safest pick at 3 and realize my views take projection/extrapolation into account.

[shakes0]

What’s great is a lot of this is just how you feel about the players

Ja is the ‘safe’ pick at 3 but his play style is reckless and his impact on winning might be a little overrated given how the Grizzlies were better without him, but he’s clearly already a superstar talent and one of the most fun Players I’ve ever seen in the NBA

I think he can be argued as high as 2. I also think you can argue him quiet a bit lower based on player archetype and injury concerns




Guys like Cade, Barnes, Edwards, Mobley, Garland etc have tons of wiggle room too.

I truly, genuinely believe in Garland and would put him third. I think he’s wildly underrated and has the winning player archetype. I think he’s 85% Nash 85% Curry. I’ve been buying all his stock since he’s as Vandy and I’m gonna keep buying more. I think he’s a sneaky dark horse MVP candidate one day the same way Nash and Curry came outta nowhere to win. I love his game and think he’s big time and the kind of guy who will keep growing exponentially

what puts Garland ahead of Trae for you? He's never had as good a season as Trae, they play the same position and they are both terrible defenders. So how do you justify Garland at 3rd yet you don't even mention Trae anywhere in your post?

Why are you so sensitive to the fact people don't rate Trae as highly as Hawks fans. I personally like Trae, but I'd like to build my team with as many two-way players as possible, especially at point guard.

The Raptors in particular have an identity that Trae just doesn't fit in the slightest. But another guard like SGA for example would fit like a glove, regardless if SGA perceived value seems lower or isn't equal.

Garland is NOT a 2 way PG. He's a 1 way PG just like Trae.


I'm sensitive to hypocrisy. And when it comes to Trae this board is so full of hypocrisy it's downright satirical. This place feels like an Onion episode the way it treats Trae compared to similar players.

[shakes0]

What’s great is a lot of this is just how you feel about the players

Ja is the ‘safe’ pick at 3 but his play style is reckless and his impact on winning might be a little overrated given how the Grizzlies were better without him, but he’s clearly already a superstar talent and one of the most fun Players I’ve ever seen in the NBA

I think he can be argued as high as 2. I also think you can argue him quiet a bit lower based on player archetype and injury concerns




Guys like Cade, Barnes, Edwards, Mobley, Garland etc have tons of wiggle room too.

I truly, genuinely believe in Garland and would put him third. I think he’s wildly underrated and has the winning player archetype. I think he’s 85% Nash 85% Curry. I’ve been buying all his stock since he’s as Vandy and I’m gonna keep buying more. I think he’s a sneaky dark horse MVP candidate one day the same way Nash and Curry came outta nowhere to win. I love his game and think he’s big time and the kind of guy who will keep growing exponentially

what puts Garland ahead of Trae for you? He's never had as good a season as Trae, they play the same position and they are both terrible defenders. So how do you justify Garland at 3rd yet you don't even mention Trae anywhere in your post?

Nothing against Trae as I’d have him 4 behind Luka/Tatum/Garland and I completely agree that Trae has been a better player thus far. Ultimately it comes down to a gut feel about Garland being special more than anything as well as some differences in their play styles that I think will allow Garland to blossom into a more dangerous weapon because of his offball game. For a more detailed rational here are my thoughts…

Garland is much better at defense. I think categorizing them as ‘both terrible’ sort of buries the point and is intentionally misleading. This is something I got on Cavs fans for years when they called Sexton ‘a similar player to Mitchell and McCollom’… having similar strengths and weaknesses doesn’t make you a similar player. A student who gets Bs in Math and Science and Cs in English and History isn’t the same type of student as someone who gets As in Math and Science and Bs in English and History even though their strengths and weaknesses are similar. So Garland might be a below average defensively but Trae is probably the worst starting defensive guard in the NBA. Garland is a C level defender who might become a B level defender. Trae is an F level defender who might become a C level one.

Garland is also elite offball and should get a lot of opportunities to shine doing that this year for Cleveland now that we unloaded Sexton and got better passers and dribbles. I’m also a huge believer in Young as offball player but I’m unsure if he will get an opportunity to do that and he has historically had the ball for 50%+ of Hawks possessions. This is primarily a player development thing and I’m concerned the Hawks are going too far down a one man army approach which I think curbs a teams development. I want to see how the trade impacts their back court because Trae playing more offball is going to be an enormous unlock if they go for it. If they don’t I will be tremendously disappointed in Hawks leadership.


Essentially it’s a few things:
1. I trust the development path Garland is on more than Traes because I am concerned the Hawks are reenforcing bad habits that will be hard to break and think the ISO/hero all limits a teams ceiling and I think the Cavs are highly prioritizing a more team based approach that will allow Garland to shine offball

2. Garland is an acceptable level defender

3. Everything I see about Garland as a person makes me believe in him as a long term prospect

Nothing anti Trae at all I think he’s the safest pick at 3 and realize my views take projection/extrapolation into account.

you having Garland and 3 and Trae at 4 is good enough for me. I can live with that even if I don't agree with it. Its the people who have Garland way above Trae who I take issue with.

I disagree that Garland is a significantly better defender than Trae. I would bet that a lot of Garland's defense relies on having two of the best rim protectors in the NBA backing him up in the lane. Trae is surrounded by one good rim protector and then a bunch of terrible defenders.

[Vampirate]

I'm a bit floored at how Melo seems to be such an afterthought in this thread. At 20 years old he posted 20-7-8 and shot 39% from three on almost 8 attempts per game.

He's got 4 more seasons before he's 25.

As a Hornets fan, call me a homer, but I'm really confused at the lack of hype here.

His weakness is him converting at/near the rim.

He's under 60% 2 seasons in a row and really needs to get that up to 65-70% to really enter true All Star territory.

[ijspeelman]

I'm a bit floored at how Melo seems to be such an afterthought in this thread. At 20 years old he posted 20-7-8 and shot 39% from three on almost 8 attempts per game.

He's got 4 more seasons before he's 25.

As a Hornets fan, call me a homer, but I'm really confused at the lack of hype here.

I think the problem with LaMelo is his lack of game around the basket (causing low FT numbers) and defensive struggles. He also shot ~1.5% below league average TS% (another product of low FT volume) which is hard to improve on as a pure volume jump shooter. I believe he can improve in both areas, but he regressed in volume around the rim last season and shot less FTs/100 possessions.

[PhilBlackson]

I'll just add my 2c about Hawks' fans gripe with not rating Trae higher...

Personally I don't have any of Trae, Ja or Garland in my top 5-7 (because overall I don't like small guards that can't defend, even Curry is bigger and puts up more of a fight defensively) buuut I do understand why a Hawks' fan would take exception to it. Especially when it comes to Ja because it's not just about rating guys, it's who would you build around. I know I can get flamed for it but when I think about it more I wouldn't even put Ja in my top 10 and the bottomline is because I don't think his body will hold up and that has to be taken into account when building a franchise. Right now Ja screams Derrick Rose 2.0 to me, a young super athletic guard taking the league by storm with crazy acrobatic plays, speed and explosive leaping ability and on a team that was supposedly pushing the dynastic team of that time period (obv Heat & now Warriors). Ja is already getting banged up, he gets a major injury, he won't be half the player he is now, so much of his game is reliant on his athleticism so personally I wouldn't take him ahead of Trae or Garland.

As for those 2, I'm not sure what has propelled Garland past Trae in rankings but Trae is only a single year older yet has had a much bigger impact on his team. He's already carried them to the Playoffs twice, including a Conference Finals & Garland's numbers are comparable to Trae's rookie numbers in his "breakout season", since then he's had 2 seasons of almost 30 & 10. Garland does that this board will be yelling for MVP consideration lol meanwhile somehow he's lower on most people's boards which doesn't make much sense to me.

[Roger Murdock]

I'm a bit floored at how Melo seems to be such an afterthought in this thread. At 20 years old he posted 20-7-8 and shot 39% from three on almost 8 attempts per game.

He's got 4 more seasons before he's 25.

As a Hornets fan, call me a homer, but I'm really confused at the lack of hype here.

People question his IQ. He takes a lot of really stupid shots, he doesn't sound like an intelligent person when he talks, he gives major pothead vibes, etc...

I think people just dont think the light bulb burns particularly bright inside and in basketball I think most of the best players tend to be reasonably intelligent people.

[illuminati666]

Not considering injuries Zion no doubt. With injuries, may still Zion but I'll give it to Ant. But it's close. I would put Zion at 3 over Ja if we know he can stay healthy.

[Jadoogar]

I'm a bit floored at how Melo seems to be such an afterthought in this thread. At 20 years old he posted 20-7-8 and shot 39% from three on almost 8 attempts per game.

He's got 4 more seasons before he's 25.

As a Hornets fan, call me a homer, but I'm really confused at the lack of hype here.

I guessing it has a lot to do with the team he's on. Charlotte are kind of the afterthought of the league and going to be even more as they are going to be pretty bad next season.

I like Lamelo's game but he hasn't gotten a chance to shine mostly because team has been so mediocre.

[Vampirate]

I'm a bit floored at how Melo seems to be such an afterthought in this thread. At 20 years old he posted 20-7-8 and shot 39% from three on almost 8 attempts per game.

He's got 4 more seasons before he's 25.

As a Hornets fan, call me a homer, but I'm really confused at the lack of hype here.

I guessing it has a lot to do with the team he's on. Charlotte are kind of the afterthought of the league and going to be even more as they are going to be pretty bad next season.

I like Lamelo's game but he hasn't gotten a chance to shine mostly because team has been so mediocre.

LaMelo has vastly improved as a shooter, but incrementally improved as a scorer overall.

[Farhan0311]

It's really about build, Ant is built like a tank, so he'll be able to absorb contact better, get better spacing, has a higher ceiling on defense. Jalen has incredible athleticism no doubt which can allow him to be a plus defender, but his physical tools are a limitation (height and strength) in terms of overall defensive impact.

There's no doubt people think Green has the potential to average 28+ PPG sometime in the future, however there are questions related to the rest of his game (defense, rebounding, passing) about his slim frame and height.

Read on Twitter

?s=46&t=QVoJn9cynAQLDk9Q_5Xuyg

lol. Ahh the obligatory 10 pounds of muscle picture. But I do like Greens potential particularly his shooting/athleticism. But then there are still questions about his defense/height/strength. I did see some improvement in his playmaking which I was worried about, but would like to see more. But it's just like Barnes IMO. I'd like to see more improvement in his shot creation/3pt shooting. Nothing wrong for a rookies/sophomores to have holes in his game, as long as they acknowledge and work on it.

they are about the same height no?

Anyways Green I think has the advantage at "wiggle" and pliability. I think he has better seperation ability through more advanced footwork and handles. I also think he has more craftiness around the rim and uses more awkward crafty angles at the rim and utilizes hop steps and euro steps more fluidly. I think his foot speed is quicker when dribbling the ball.

Fast forward to the 23 second mark in the video:
https://youtu.be/0a-qjOg5wxQ

Don't mind the actual finish here or the horrible title of the video but just look how quick his foot speed is while handling the ball. I'm not sure if Edwards has that type of acceleration and foot speed while handling the ball.

I'm not saying one is better overall than the other in tenes of max potential. I'm just saying that Edwards has an advantage in strength and Green has an advantage in being more slippery or having more "wiggle"