OT: Magnus Carlsen brouhahas

[dhsilv2]

The fact that the anal beads theory gained mainstream traction is hilarious.

I think any time you come up with something THAT funny...it'll get attention when it's a simi obscure thing.

Edit

Also do we have a video of whatever his name is telling us he's never put anything up there? I just want that to forever have as a moment of "yes this was chess"

[Braggins]

Was the interview right after the match? That stuff definitely deserves consideration, but hes also a teenager who just beat the GOAT in one of the biggest upsets in chess history, so it wouldnt be that weird for him to not be in the state of mind to explain things immediately afterwards. His mind was probably blown.

[dhsilv2]

Was the interview right after the match? That stuff definitely deserves consideration, but hes also a teenager who just beat the GOAT in one of the biggest upsets in chess history, so it wouldnt be that weird for him to not be in the state of mind to explain things immediately afterwards. His mind was probably blown.

I'm not sure magnus has said a word about this post some tweet with nothing really clear about it. All the more people are speculating. Magnus might have been saying he need to take a huge dump and people heard cheating.

[Dooley]

Was the interview right after the match? That stuff definitely deserves consideration, but hes also a teenager who just beat the GOAT in one of the biggest upsets in chess history, so it wouldnt be that weird for him to not be in the state of mind to explain things immediately afterwards. His mind was probably blown.

I'm not sure magnus has said a word about this post some tweet with nothing really clear about it. All the more people are speculating. Magnus might have been saying he need to take a huge dump and people heard cheating.

He said today "I have to say I am very impressed by Neiman's play and I think his mentor Maxim Dlugy must be doing a great job" which people are reading as a further veiled accusation of cheating bc Dlugy is a shady character and suspected cheater

[Cubbies2120]

How do you cheat at chess?

Moreover, how do you understand there was cheating looking at a game?

I assume it's similar to poker where there are programs/tools advanced enough to tell you what the perfect game theory optimal move is in every situation.

For example, Limit Hold-Em poker (heads up aka 1 v 1) has been entirely solved for a while now.

https://www.theverge.com/2015/1/8/7516219/Texas-Hold-Em-poker-solved-computer-program-cepheus

[h4rrison]

I found it interesting that Magnus dabbled his hand in poker and is ****. But, a chess legend none the less obviously. The cheating controversy he effectively claimed on his opponent (highly unfounded from what I saw at the time) was an odd one.

Once a cheater, always a cheater!

[DaPessimist]

If he's gonna accuse someone of cheating, he needs to provide proof, or he should be punished for making such wild accusations which are ultimately detrimental to the sport.

[FrodoFraggins]

Get moves messaged to you that have been played out on Chess engines

I thought it was proven that the computers can’t beat humans? Didn’t Bobby Fischer beat the IBM computer

Beginners are rated ~800

Really good players are rated like 1800 - like think 'best player in your highschool'

Magnus Carlsen the GOAT is rated like 2800

Super computers are rated like 3800



There is a 0% chance any human could beat the worlds best chess engines. Best case scenario would be a draw, but still unlikely.

I wonder what it's like for two 3800 AIs to face each other.

[Dr Aki]

The fact that the anal beads theory gained mainstream traction is hilarious.

Poe's law is an adage of Internet culture saying that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, every parody of extreme views can be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of the views being parodied.

It went from a joke from a viewer on GM Eric Hansen (Chessbrah) stream to the /r/anarchychess meme subreddit and then picked up by mainstream who couldn't tell that it was satire (or did and simply didn't care) and used it for cheap laughs

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[dockingsched]

I thought it was proven that the computers can’t beat humans? Didn’t Bobby Fischer beat the IBM computer

Beginners are rated ~800

Really good players are rated like 1800 - like think 'best player in your highschool'

Magnus Carlsen the GOAT is rated like 2800

Super computers are rated like 3800



There is a 0% chance any human could beat the worlds best chess engines. Best case scenario would be a draw, but still unlikely.

I wonder what it's like for two 3800 AIs to face each other.

A lot of draws lol

[MrBigShot]

If Magnus has some insight as to/if Hans cheated he should come out and say it, otherwise he just comes across like a huge sore loser.

[DutchManDanFan]

It's a difficult situation. This week in a Dutch newspaper there was an interview with a young Dutch GM who played against Niemann 3 times in the last 3 years. The last time he lost because Niemann played suspiciously good: many times the best possible move in a row, in a way it looked too good for a human. After the game, when both players analysed the game, he didn't seem too impressive, suggesting some silly moves (for GM level). Chess players show their level more so after games when analysing together. This is why some of the top GM's have doubts about the real strength of Niemann.

But Niemann is a strange guy, probably with some form of autism, who works very hard and plays a lot of tournements. And there's no real proof. So innocent until proven otherwise.
What Carlsen did is not the best way to solve this problem, I feel. If he is cheating he will be caught one day. So just play against him and do everything to find out what he does. It is very difficult to cheat without help from others. The best way is to challenge him in a series of blitz games in which it is impossible to cheat. If he looses all blitz games against 2700+ GM's it's a good signal there's something going on in normal games.

[DutchManDanFan]

There is a 0% chance any human could beat the worlds best chess engines. Best case scenario would be a draw, but still unlikely.

I wonder what it's like for two 3800 to face each other.

A lot of draws lol

The best chess computer is Alpha Zero (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AlphaZero) solely developed by artificial intelligence, learning from playing endless games against himself. It has beaten all other strong chess computers easily.

But AlphaZero isn’t available on any public platform. It has inspired many developers to create open-source network chess projects though. AllieStein and Leela Chess Zero, for example, try to mimic AlphaZero’s learning method. Leela Chess Zero is no 2 on this list: https://www.rankred.com/chess-engines/ which has Stockfish at no 1 with around 3600 rating.

[Lou84]

Magnus gave an interview where he said that he "hopes to be able to say more on Sunday after the tournament". My guess is the same as Nakamura's guess, he was threatened with legal action and that's the reason he cannot say much at the moment. His reference to Maxim Dlugy is also very interesting. People who know Magnus agree that he is a guy with strong principles. If Magnus believes someone is cheating he will not stop with the accusation. That's also the reason he refused to play against Niemann.
As for cheaters in general, if the last ~20years of online gaming or sports in general have taught me anything, it's that cheaters will always cheat. I am the same as Magnus, not worth my time. Dude is filthy rich and does what he is absolutely obsessed with as a job. No need to bother.

Sent from my Pixel 3a using RealGM mobile app

[ratul]

he got busted up in speed chess by some kid recently I remember. They're coming for him just like he did with kasparov

[DutchManDanFan]

Moreover, how do you understand there was cheating looking at a game?

If the player does moves that make no sense to anyone, except the simulation computer do the same. I don't watch chess, but I remember watching it one time and all the commentators were confused by the computer prediction, but then it all made sense in the end.

Yeah this is pretty much it. Get a bunch of master-level players (or even a few of them, really) to analyze a player’s moves and they’d be easily able to tell you which ones are humanlike and which ones are unnatural.

No this is not how it's done. There are programs to compare games played by humans with what Stockfish (the best chess computer) recommands. It calculates a score how often you make 'bad' moves (differ from Stockfish' moves). If you score very low it gets suspicious. If you score much lower than Carlsen does in many games, it gets to a point to think it's not possible for a human being. Certainly from a guy who was not very well known in the chess world until recently.
Chess.com uses softeware like this to ban players, so they use it as evidence.

[sca]

If the player does moves that make no sense to anyone, except the simulation computer do the same. I don't watch chess, but I remember watching it one time and all the commentators were confused by the computer prediction, but then it all made sense in the end.

Yeah this is pretty much it. Get a bunch of master-level players (or even a few of them, really) to analyze a player’s moves and they’d be easily able to tell you which ones are humanlike and which ones are unnatural.

No this is not how it's done. There are programs to compare games played by humans with what Stockfish (the best chess computer) recommands. It calculates a score how often you make 'bad' moves (differ from Stockfish' moves). If you score very low it gets suspicious. If you score much lower than Carlsen does in many games, it gets to a point to think it's not possible for a human being. Certainly from a guy who was not very well known in the chess world until recently.
Chess.com uses softeware like this to ban players, so they use it as evidence.

Thanks for the heads up, highly appreciated.

[art_tatum]

Sore loser. Just bc he lost in a classical.
Hans while I don't like him has worked hard and is hitting his prime. He cheated once at 12 online and 16 online in an unrated game.
He did his "time". So have a lot of GMs actually. Cheating over the board is a different animal.

Besides it's not like Carlson is unbeatable. The game he played against Hans wasn't that brilliant. Also Wesley So destroyed him in Fischer random championships which imo has more pure human chess involved.

[dhsilv2]

Was the interview right after the match? That stuff definitely deserves consideration, but hes also a teenager who just beat the GOAT in one of the biggest upsets in chess history, so it wouldnt be that weird for him to not be in the state of mind to explain things immediately afterwards. His mind was probably blown.

I'm not sure magnus has said a word about this post some tweet with nothing really clear about it. All the more people are speculating. Magnus might have been saying he need to take a huge dump and people heard cheating.

He said today "I have to say I am very impressed by Neiman's play and I think his mentor Maxim Dlugy must be doing a great job" which people are reading as a further veiled accusation of cheating bc Dlugy is a shady character and suspected cheater

Or he thinks he's a good player and played well...

[dockingsched]

Sore loser. Just bc he lost in a classical.
Hans while I don't like him has worked hard and is hitting his prime. He cheated once at 12 online and 16 online in an unrated game.
He did his "time". So have a lot of GMs actually. Cheating over the board is a different animal.

Besides it's not like Carlson is unbeatable. The game he played against Hans wasn't that brilliant. Also Wesley So destroyed him in Fischer random championships which imo has more pure human chess involved.

This is the logic I don’t understand that I’ve seen from the “he’s a sore loser” angle. As you said he’s not unbeatable, plenty of games he loses, so he just randomly decided he’s going to be a sore loser about this one game?

Pretty clear that Magnus believes there was some foul play involved, whether there actually was or not is secondary. This isn’t about Magnus being a sore loser, kind of clear by now he believes he was cheated.