Greatest Peaks Project (2022): #31 - 1989-90 Charles Barkley

[LA Bird]

RealGM Greatest Peaks List (2022)
1. 1990-91 Michael Jordan
2. 2012-13 LeBron James
3. 1999-00 Shaquille O'Neal
4. 1976-77 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
5. 1966-67 Wilt Chamberlain
6. 2002-03 Tim Duncan
7. 1993-94 Hakeem Olajuwon
8. 1963-64 Bill Russell
9. 1985-86 Larry Bird
10. 1986-87 Magic Johnson
11. 2016-17 Stephen Curry
12. 2003-04 Kevin Garnett
13. 2020-21 Giannis Antetokounmpo
14. 1963-64 Oscar Robertson
15. 1965-66 Jerry West
16. 2021-22 Nikola Jokic
17. 1976-77 Bill Walton
18. 2005-06 Dwyane Wade
19. 2007-08 Kobe Bryant
20. 1993-94 David Robinson
21. 2016-17 Kawhi Leonard
22. 1975-76 Julius Erving
23. 2010-11 Dirk Nowitzki
24. 2016-17 Kevin Durant
25. 1982-83 Moses Malone
26. 2019-20 Anthony Davis
27. 2006-07 Steve Nash
28. 2014-15 Chris Paul
29. 2018-19 James Harden
30. 1949-50 George Mikan
31. 1989-90 Charles Barkley

Spoiler:

Please vote for your 3 highest player peaks and at least one line of reasoning for each of them.

Vote example 1
1. 1991 Jordan: Explanation
2. 2013 LeBron: Explanation
3. 2000 Shaq: Explanation

In addition, you can also list other peak season candidates from those three players. This extra step is entirely optional

Vote example 2
1. 1991 Jordan: Explanation
(1990 Jordan)
2. 2013 LeBron: Explanation
(2012 LeBron)
(2009 LeBron)
3. 2000 Shaq: Explanation

You can visit the project thread for further information on why this makes a difference and how the votes will be counted at the end of the round.

Voting for this round will close on Friday September 23, 9am ET.

[Ron Swanson]

1992-93 Charles Barkley (HM: 1989-90) Ultimately went with Barkley because I like his playoff "resilience" (I'm honestly starting to hate this term though) much more than the next group of guys I have on my ballot outside of maybe Dirk (Malone, D-Rob, CP3). If not for Jordan going supernova in the Finals, I think the perception of Barkley and his peak would be closer to Top-10 than Top-20. I'm particularly impressed by the fact that the Suns offense didn't have any drop-off (113.3 vs. 113.0 RS/PS) against a very good defensive Bulls team and unfavorable forward matchup (Scottie & Horace). It's also good to get some lineup data of old Barkley post-1996 that shows us he was still anchoring good offenses (+12.0 on/off his age-34 and 35 seasons). My alternate season (1990) ironically also ended due to an insane postseason performance by Jordan (41/7/6/4 on 61.6% TS) which is kind of a microcosm of his career, and why I think his is one of the very few exceptions where I think the lack of championship success is forgiving.

2020-21 Joel Embiid (HM: 2021-22) This might be the lowest sample size peak I vote for in this project (62-games total RS/PS combined), but on a per-game basis I think it's tough for me to choose a lesser player just because they played slightly more (I'd just argue that in an 82-game season he would have played 70+ combined games anyways). While his defense wasn't as stout as previous years, just an absolute offensive carry-job (+10.5 points per-100 RS, +17.6 PS). And from a pure shot-making perspective, this might have been the best ever performance from a 7-foot Center we've seen in the modern era of shot-tracking (33 points per-36 on 63.6% TS). A near 50% mid-range shooter plus 37% from 3 stacks up with almost any prime Durant season. After being a career low-40s midrange and low-30s from 3PT distance guy, Embiid has been damn near automatic the last two years. Ultimately couldn't take 2022 even though he played more games, because I just can't handwave the borderline atrocious Heat series away.

1957-58 Bob Pettit(HM: 1962-63) Feels appropriate to put Pettit here right after Mikan gets in. Tough to gauge with the limited footage we have of prime Bob, but the results and numbers we do have speak for themselves. One of only two teams to beat the Russell Celtics in the 1957-1969 postseason period (and took the C's to a Game 7 two other times). Dropped 50/19 on 34 shots in a closeout Finals game, and a 29/17/2 line in the Finals overall. Biggest hurdle for me placing Pettit any higher is that his championship year clearly wasn't his best statistical season (24/17/2 on +5% TS adjusted, .209 WS/48, 26.3 PER) and his series against the Pistons was incredibly underwhelming by his standards (Cliff Hagan carried them offensively those 5-games). He had much better efficiency seasons and I'm not knowledgeable enough on his defense (outside of knowing it certainly wasn't poor) to gauge how much value he contributed on that end, but I feel pretty confident in his placement here.

[AEnigma]

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2226220#p101237983

1. 1990 Patrick Ewing
2. 2011 Dwight Howard
3. 2003 Tracy McGrady
4. 1998 Karl Malone
5. 2022 Joel Embiid

Could be swayed on Malone versus McGrady. Always tough to assess the value of raw floor-raising.

[DraymondGold]

Wow, Mikan finally got voted in. Mikan seems to have been gaining ground over the years, going from off the list in the 2012 and 2015 project to 29th back in 2019 and now 30th in this project. While it might look like a regression to go from 29th to 30th, considering there were multiple new peaks since the 2019 project (namely Giannis and Jokic, and ~Harden), Mikan is still actually gaining ground relative to his contemporaries. Cool stuff

It's also interesting that he seems to have gone right between two groups of players... there was a dominant playmaking guard group (Paul, Nash, Harden) all going ahead of him and the group of mostly big men coming next (Karl, Barkley, Ewing, maybe Dwight or Embiid, with McGrady being the only non-big ). We do seem to vote in players in positional groups. Perhaps something to reflect on after the project.

1. 1998 Karl Malone (1997, 1993/1992)
2. 1990 Charles Barkley (1993, 1989, 1991)
[2020 Harden went here]
3. 2003 Tracy McGrady
4. 1990 Patrick Ewing

Newer Stat box: https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=101165986#p101165986

...

After Mikan, we're now getting into the group of peaks that are quite hard to distinguish. No candidate is flawless, and the data we have doesn't portray them too far apart, though there are clear groups). Additionally, no candidate has outlier positive contextual factors (e.g. resilience, scalability, time machine argument, etc.) to put them above the rest.

Malone, Barkley, and Harden tend to have the best statistical profiles (likely in that order, though Barkley and Harden are hard to separate). Malone is ahead in Augmented Plus Minus (both regular season and postseason), RAPM, and PIPM (regular season and postseason). He doesn't lose that much ground in BPM, and the accuracy of his WOWY numbers are limited by his minuscule off sample (which actually supports his durability advantage over everyone here). Harden and Barkley trade off in these stats, but tend to have a slight advantage over McGrady/Ewing.

Contextually, people tend to have resilience concerns with Malone. I've been a proponent that many supposed playoff "chokes" are overreactions that aren't that bad, often being cases of injuries or poor fit more than inherent limitations in the player. For Malone, I see his playoff struggles as clearly connecting to the fact that the load/volume of his teammates decreased in the playoffs... he was forced to shoulder a load that was slightly too large for him, and appeared to fail because of it. I see him as a fine playoff performer for this level, and I don't see him losing enough ground in resilience to Barkley and certainly not to Harden for them to catch up. Neither of these three are portability darlings (though all are better than Ewing here). Defensive concerns hold me back on Barkley compared to Malone, particularly since both are big men where defense is more valuable.

For McGrady, I'm a bit hesitant to take him over the other 3 given he doesn't have as compelling a statistical case, and given the shorter peak (how do we rate outlier years?) and the various other concerns (health / resilience) that come with him.

For Ewing, his WOWY numbers are encouraging, but defensive anchors have the potential to be overrated in WOWY, for reasons I've discussed previously. None of the other data we have on him is compelling relative to the first three, and I have major scalability concerns. Put another way, I have concerns about his iso-centric offensive approach to scoring, especially given he lacks a clear volume or efficiency advantage against these other players. And for all his defensive superiority, he's probably the worst facilitator of this group.
Could I be underrating Ewing's defensive advantage? The 90s Knicks were a historically good defensive dynasty, after all -- up there with Robinson/Duncan Spurs, the KG Celtics. How much of this was driven solely by Ewing vs boosted by his teammates? Ewing's certainly an all time defender, probably top 10 all time, but I see him as clearly a step down from Robinson/Duncan/Wilt/Hakeem/Russell/Garnett. If you're using team relative defensive rating to argue for him, it's worth noting that unlike other defensive greats (like Russell), his team's defensive success does not correlate well with Ewing's individual defense. Most people rate Ewing's seasons as something like this: 1990 > 1989 ~ 1991 > 1992 > 1993. But his team's defensive rating goes the exact opposite! His teams were better defensively when he was worse defensively. Now this still suggests you can build All-time defenses around Ewing, but to me it also suggests that Ewing was not the sole driver of these defensive teams.
Thus, I haven't yet been convinced that Ewing's defense is enough to overcome the advantages others have, but as I've said, these peaks are quite close together. There's certainly some uncertainty, and a more optimistic interpretation of Ewing's defense/offense could have him higher.

[AEnigma]

The second list was shot clock era only, and my suspicion is the same was de facto assumed in the first; I think the pre-shot-clock era was technically but not openly allowed (contrast LA Bird starting every thread by saying votes back to the 1940s are fine), and while I have not thoroughly checked, I cannot recall any votes for him outright, or any meaningful discussion.

Personally of the opinion that shot clock era should return to being the standard in future projects. The rule only affects Mikan and just leads to him being arbitrarily placed, pretty much once enough people go, “Well none of these other guys’ achievements impress me much, so Mikan it is.” No one is really changing opinions on him over time. There is nothing to showcase him demonstrably playing better than all the centres who arrived later. It is the purest distillation of an accomplishments / era-relative peak assessment, whereas at least abstractly we can make legitimate arguments that other old players could have more outright basketball ability/talent/impact than their successors. The process by which and reasoning why he was voted in is really no different from last time.

[falcolombardi]

The second list was shot clock era only, and my suspicion is the same was de facto assumed in the first; I think the pre-shot-clock era was technically but not openly allowed (contrast LA Bird starting every thread by saying votes back to the 1940s are fine), and while I have not thoroughly checked, I cannot recall any votes for him outright, or any meaningful discussion.

Personally of the opinion that shot clock era should return to being the standard in future projects. The rule only affects Mikan and just leads to him being arbitrarily placed, pretty much once enough people go, “Well none of these other guys’ achievements impress me much, so Mikan it is.” No one is really changing opinions on him over time. There is nothing to showcase him demonstrably playing better than all the centres who arrived later. It is the purest distillation of an accomplishments / era-relative peak assessment, whereas at least abstractly we can make legitimate arguments that other old players could have more outright basketball ability/talent/impact than their successors. The process by which and reasoning why he was voted in is really no different from last time.

Yep mikan placement is ultra arbitrary

I have been saying that i honestly may prefer him as a honorable mention than a low ranking that doesnt reflect either his in era dominance/achievements (which are top 10 easy) or his absolute quality (which is hard to actually evaluate)

But as far as the arbitraryness goes i rather he be ranked than not

[AEnigma]

Right. Pretty much impossible to disagree he was the best pre-shot-clock player, by a large margin, so it becomes entirely a question of how that gets weighed against the entire rest of the sport’s history. I do not see what the inclusion of that period really adds. For future projects, of course. It was clearly the rule from the start both this time and last time.

[Stan]

C’mon, Barkley outside the top 30? Behind Mikan? That’s just turrible.

[tsherkin]

People having a tough time with Mikan makes sense. Pre-shot clock, worsened when the lane was widened, all that stuff. Many of the things people often try to employ in criticism of Wilt and Russell was far more true of Mikan. But still, it was the NBA, and he could only play against his competition in his league environment, I guess. His whole career, except for that one comeback at the very end, he deviated above league average and his first couple seasons were wild for TS+ and FTr+, which made a big difference. Stayed great drawing fouls the whole time, really.

Done now, though, he's slotted in at #31.

This does seem a space to slot in a Mailman or Barkley season.

For me, I think this is a spot to start discussing 1992 Malone. He wasn't quite as good in the RS as he was wielding his J and passing as old man Karl in 97 and 98, but he had his best postseason. I'm sure based on participation volume, this doesn't count as a vote, so I urge people to consider the different flavors of the Mailman (oooh, maybe I should have rephrased that, eeccch...), because 1992 was a big year for him.

Same same with Barkley. Aside from the MVP/Finals run, I'm not sure if 93 is really his best year. 91 stands out, even though he was injured... and he stilled faced Chicago that year. And he put up 25.6 ppg on 64% FG with 10.2 rpg and 5.4 apg and only 2 tpg. 66.6% TS despite 64.6% from the line. Food for thought, anyhow, and of course, box score numbers only, la la la. Just another sort of "maybe to be considered" type thought.

I'm not quite ready to pop in a Ewing or Pippen season, but we're getting closer. Some of the conversation in the previous thread dutifully highlighted Pippen's very strong defensive impact on Chicago, particularly in 94.

I see others popping 03 McGrady, which seems appropriate as well. I think I personally lean in that direction, because it was a wild, wild season from T-Mac. He was insane that year.

[OhayoKD]

1. 17 Westbrook
(2016)
Having out-valued, out-box stat'd and out-played prime KD in the post-season while staying within range in the regular season, 2016 Westbrook(and to an extent 2014 westbrook) is a great peak aready. Adding in westbrook's tendency to get better vs stronger opponents and his significant playoff elevation on very strong playoff opponents(crushing the 70 win spurs, taking the warriors to 7, pushing the 14 spurs to overtime of game 6, beating the best clippersi iterations, ect, ect) and Westbrook accomplishing this without good spacing, 2016(and 2014 to a degree) sets a verty strong floor.

2017 Westbrook can claim a stronger regular season performance(second in impact stuff behind 2017 curry), a better skill-set(stronger catch and shoot) and nothing about the rockets first playoff exit really calls into questions Westbrook's track record as a playoff elevator.

2. 94 Scottie Pippen
(91, 92)
Led a contender without Jordan winnning 55 rs games, sweeping a 48 win team in the ffirst round and nearly taking the 61 srs knicks out with maybe the best performance of his career. Biggest factor in Jordan's 50 win bulls sides turning into atg teams, arguably the best non-big defender ever, and one of the best creators of the 90's starting in the 91 playoffs.

3. 2022 Embid
Improved from leading a contender in 2019 across the board in the regular, strong playoff performances in adverse circumstances and mvp level impact with questionable fit

[Samurai]

1. Bob Pettit 1959. (alternate 58, 62) I have Pettit as very close to Mikan so I suppose it makes sense for me to list him just after Mikan. In terms of how he did against his peers, I think a good argument could be made that 59 Pettit could have been a top ten season. Obviously we also have to look at the context of his season and the quality of his competition and figure out how much to penalize him for the era he played in. He was MVP in a league that had Bill Russell averaging 23 boards/game, a rookie Elgin Baylor averaging 25 pts and 15 rebounds/game, and Hall of Famers like Schayes, Arizin, Hagan, Cousy and Twyman in their primes. Pettit led the league with 29.4 pts/game, a 28.2 PER and 14.8 WS while finishing second in rebounds with 16.4/game.

2. Tracy McGrady 2003. Sure, its an outlier season for him but for this project that is irrelevant. For that one year, he put together his best shooting season with one of his better assist seasons. Also had his best season at drawing fouls and by far his best season ever in WS, WS/48, OBPM and PER.

3. Charles Barkley 1990 (alternate 93). Tough for me to pick between 90 or 93. Barkley was at his athletic peak in 90. While he is here because of his ability to score, 90 was also one of his better defensive seasons. Led the league in TS%, 3rd in PER, and 2nd in WS (including a respectable 15th highest DWS in the league).

[trelos6]

31. Charles Barkley 1990. (1993 HM). There’s no perfect players left, and Charles certainly was not great on D. But what Barkley did on TNT, I mean offense, is pretty spectacular. 24.1 pp75 on +12.4 rTS%.

32. T-Mac 2003. 31.5 pp75 at +4.5 rTS%. I don’t care if it was a single season outlier. It happened and it was beautiful.

33. Draymond Green 2015-16. The one year he could shoot. Draymond on D was a force. His versatility on D, and spectacular PIPM numbers. Also considered here were Ewing, Howard, Miller, Pippen, Grant Hill.

[trex_8063]

1st ballot: Charles Barkley '90 (> '93)
I know many go for '93, but I like '90 best because he was still closer to his athletic peak and utilizing his inside game optimally, just on constant attack. '93 is probably his best playmaking season, and arguably one of his better defensive ones [though not any better than '90, I don't think].......but his increasing penchant for shooting in the mid-range [or from trey]---where he was merely mediocre---is a big strike against '93 compared to '90: he was the worst 2pt% season since his rookie year in '93, while also taking more 3's than ever before [hitting just 30.5% (and worse in the playoffs)], AND '93 also sees his [by far] lowest FTAr of his career to that point.


2nd ballot: '22 Joel Embiid (> '21)
Honestly, on a per-minute basis, I think Embiid is a bit better/more valuable than anyone left on the table. It's simply the missed games/durability concerns (in BOTH rs and playoffs) combined with relatively restricted minutes that slides him just behind a couple players for me.


3rd ballot: '03 Tracy McGrady
Not sure how much of a ceiling raiser he can be, but this was perhaps an all-time tier floor-raising carry-job. I'm going to quote portions of posts of other posters [from the TMac vs Drexler thread] for argumentation...

He was a +4.5% rTS guy (109 TS+) in that 02-03 season. Led the league in usage at 35.2%, led the league in OWS (13.2) on a 42-win team. 30.3 PER, led the league. .262 WS/48, league-high. +9.8 OBPM, league-high. Second in the league in oRAPM behind Dirk.

I'm about to focus on OBPM, but obviously it is just one stat, and one which has its own pros and cons. But I do want to examine the achievement, since we're speaking specifically of offense and specifically of peak.

Keep in mind, there are 3 seasons in league history of 2,000+ minutes and 9.5+ OBPM. McGrady's 9.8 is second-highest on that list, ahead of 09 Lebron's 9.5, and behind 2016 Steph's 10.3. There are 9 player-seasons of +9.0 or better with those 2,000 minutes, just to open it up to a slightly less arbitrary range. Lebron's on it 3 times, and Jokic is on it twice. No one else is on it more than once.

2016 Steph
03 McGrady
09 Lebron
19 Harden
13 Lebron
22 Jokic
21 Jokic
90 MJ
10 Lebron

Just for reference.

Drexler's career-high is +6.8 OBPM, from the 92 season when his Blazers lost to MJ in the Finals. It was part of a stretch of 5-straight seasons of +5.0 or better, and six seasons in eight. Never managed double-digit OWS. Never exceeded 24.1 PER. rTS a little lower in his peak seasons than McGrady. Never exceeded 27.2 ppg. Never exceeded 28.7 USG. Topped out at 29.9% AST and 12.4% TOV, against 03 McGrady's 30.0% USG and 8.4% TOV.

https://thedyspatch.com/2022/05/31/how-good-all-time-was-2021-22-luka-doncic-on-offense-for-his-age/?preview_id=7677&preview_nonce=9b2a701c1c&preview=true&_thumbnail_id=7735

In an article I previously wrote, I described TMac's offensive game and value before.

Some stats:

33.4 Adjusted Points (leading the league) on +4.5 relative-to-league average true shooting
5.4 Assists, along with a 9.9 Offensive Box Creation and 7.6 Passer Rating
6.4 Rebounds (1.6 coming on the offensive end)
5.8 BackPicks Box Plus-Minus, 4.4 Augmented Plus-Minus / Game (4th and 5th in the league)

Posting one of the highest possessional scoring rates in NBA history, McGrady demonstrated a versatile scoring arsenal – leveraging his size and quickness for a long mid-range and 3-Point driven shot diet (57.7% of his total field-goal attempts, shooting 43.1 and 38.6 % on these level shots respectively) with stellar low post play and basket drives in addition. In a situation with relatively poor spacing and offensive support, McGrady was often responsible for creating possessions. His volume scoring gave him significant attention through doubles – where he showed a solid ability to pass out of them – dishing assists over the heads of defenders (the hyperlinked clip shows career highlights, including his 2002-03 season). How much McGrady was responsible directly impacted his team’s situation. With a 105.2 rated team offensive (good for 10th in the league), 74% of this production came with McGrady on – where the team posted a 109.3 offense (5.7 points above league average). In the other 26%, the Magic posted only a 91.8 offensive rating.

This goes to show how much of a load McGrady shouldered, where he ultimately brought the Magic to the first round of the playoffs in an 8 vs. 1 seed matchup against the 2002-03 Pistons (whom were anchored by a 99.9 rated team defense). While McGrady had some struggles down the stretch, he still performed well in totality. His averages in the series, listed below, show a somewhat decline in creation, but this can certainly be explored further when considering an inferior (for star standards) supporting cast and the opponent faced. In a better situation, there would certainly be a chance McGrady could engine a championship level offense.

32.5 Points on +5.5 relative-to-opponent average true shooting
4.4 Assists, with an 8.1 Offensive Box Creation and 5.8 Passer Rating
6.2 Rebounds (1.4 coming on the offensive end)
5.0 BackPicks Box Plus-Minus

Looking at all of that, it is clear McGrady has posted a season that is more impactful than any variant of Drexler. Even with such a high offensive load and responsibility, I believe McGrady didn't quite have scoring blindness --- nor was he a slouch off ball. As a matter of fact, he was a very good playmaker off of his scoring gravity and I believe him to be the best offensive player in the league in 2003 (with Shaq declining and Kobe not quite reaching his apex then).

.

4th: '97 Karl Malone (> '92 > '98) --- I think his peak is slept on a bit, in fact, I opted to push it ahead of Ewing: excellent elbow/high-post passing from the PF spot, a certain amount of floor-spacing effect, OUTSTANDING rs scorer (and still notably better than average in the post-season as a scorer), and solid defender. Utter ironman, too.
5th: '90 Patrick Ewing (> '94 Ewing)
6th: '11 Dwight Howard (> '09 Howard)
7th: '61 Elgin Baylor (> '62)
8th: '75 Artis Gilmore

[capfan33]

1. 90 Ewing
I'm not very familiar with Ewing overall, but I do know he was a historically great defensive anchor who anchored some of the greatest defenses ever. AEngima's posts in the previous thread are largely the reason for this vote, as he showed how 1990 for Ewing was actually a legitimate outlier for him due to an improved offensive skillset while still maintaining his athleticism, and I suspect that the better defensive results in 93 and 94 are more due to roster construction and coaching than Ewing himself. In a general sense, I like his skillset quite a bit, a legitimate top-10 defensive anchor ever who also had outside shooting touch and athleticism to play in the pick and roll. It plays well in many teams in any era, and as such I'm unexpectedly voting for Ewing here.

2. 11 Dwight
ATG defender with good offense and great athleticism, I think he's probably somewhat underrated in a historical sense because we see what he is now but forget the force he was before the injuries took their toll. I've seen some interesting stuff on Malone and Stockton, who I used to exclusively view as postseason chokers but thanks to Colt18 and what Proxy wrote in the last thread I've had to reconsider that viewpoint some, but I still don't think either of them has any skill that matches Dwight's defensive impact. I'm not sure where to put Paul due to injury as well as general postseason issues and I hate the idea of building around Chuck. So Dwight seems like the best candidate left.

3. 90 Barkley
Finally going to vote him in, it appears he's getting voted in this round anyways so this vote won't have much impact. Incredible offensive player but I've always hated how he's a tweener which makes building a team around him problematic. But at this point I think those issue's are outweighed by his offense considering who's left.

[Proxy]

Yeah it looks like Chuck is getting in this round

Still
1. 2003 Tracy McGrady
2. 1997 Karl Malone (1998, 1992)
3. 1990 Patrick Ewing

All touched on in previous threads
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=2225908&start=40#p101235742

[falcolombardi]

1- 1990 ewing

Out of the 3 biggest 90's names left (karl, chuck and ewing) i believe him to be the easiest one to build a championship around

His defense will fit anywhere and his offense could have been optimized as a pick and roll partner alongside more talented ballhandlers

The knicks prolonged contention in the 90's anchored by a physicslly diminished ewing hint that imo

2- 1996 karl malone (1992)

In spite of his scoring drop offs he was capable of co-anchoring a ultra elite offense while simultaneously providing some spacing, great defensive rebounding (keeping the bulls off the glass in 97/98 was lowkey incredible) and legitimely brilliant passing. While beint able to be elite alongside a quality ballhandler thanks to his passing and shooting threat. And providind strong defense

Like pippen he is a player who can do a ton for your team in spite of mediocre scoring efficiency as a first option. Prefering pippen or karl comes down to a flip coin for me

3-1994 scottie pippen (1996, 1995)

Many will probably disagree here but i am that high on scottie. He can anchor a contending level team in both ends (shown in 94) and be one of the most impactful second options in the history of the game due to his ability to impact the game without dominating the ball or taking a ton of shots

Compare him with barkley. Pippen bulls in 94 match favorably with the best barkley sixers teams

The 93 suns were fantastic but that was a team that was routinely winning 55~ games a year before him and had a strong kevin johnson led offense already. Put 94 pippen in barkley place and i could see a scenario where they are even better

Some considerations

Barkley 1990 : still extremely high on his offense but i just think his defense is a huge issue. The relatively weak ( for someone often seen as the third best player of his decade. Still excellent on absplute terms) impact signals give me pause that his defense really was that clear of a handicap

Penny 1997- i honestly have not watched enough of him to make a decision

Reggie miller- domt know which year to pick, still to asses his defense properly.

If i end up seeing him as a slight positive kind of defender i could put him above barkley tbh

Tracy mcgrady: need to watch mpre 2003 games and decide how to evaluate the "outlierness" of this season

Howard: deciding how much to penalize his locker room antics

Embiid: evaluating his health issues. If paul got in despite his perenially injur3d playoffs i feel embiid may not be all that far

Older players like barry, pettit, reed, frazier i am just not knowledgeable enough to vote on. Which is making me doubt if i am qualified to continue voting when i am so unfamiliar with pre merger basketball and most of my watched basketball is in the 00's

[LA Bird]

Here are the results for round 31

Winner: 90 Barkley

There were 10 voters in this round: Ron Swanson, AEnigma, DraymondGold, OhayoKD, Samurai, trelos6, trex_8063, capfan33, Proxy, falcolombardi

A total of 31 seasons received at least 1 vote: 03 McGrady, 09 Howard, 11 Howard, 16 Green, 16 Westbrook, 17 Westbrook, 21 Embiid, 22 Embiid, 58 Pettit, 59 Pettit, 61 Baylor, 62 Baylor, 62 Pettit, 63 Pettit, 75 Gilmore, 89 Barkley, 90 Barkley, 90 Ewing, 91 Barkley, 91 Pippen, 92 Malone, 92 Pippen, 93 Barkley, 93 Malone, 94 Ewing, 94 Pippen, 95 Pippen, 96 Malone, 96 Pippen, 97 Malone, 98 Malone

Top 10 seasons: 90 Barkley, 93 Barkley, 03 McGrady, 90 Ewing, 98 Malone, 22 Embiid, 97 Malone, 92 Malone, 21 Embiid, 11 Howard

H2H record (1 season per player)
90 Barkley: 0.650 (26-14)
03 McGrady: 0.622 (23-14)
90 Ewing: 0.568 (21-16)
98 Malone: 0.419 (13-18)
22 Embiid: 0.400 (14-21)
11 Howard: 0.267 (8-22)