Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc... 7.0

[Texas Chuck]

I think the best solution to the Westbrook saga is Westbrook/pick with top 4 protections for Hayward/Oubre. Hornets aren't competing this year, get some more flexibility next year, pick up pick when Ball has them a consistent playoff team or another asset when he doesn't and they are rebuilding yet again. Lakers get a very talented guy, and you should have two of he, Lebron, and AD most RS nights and you hope all 3 are healthy come playoff team. You haven't mortgaged the farm and you actually have a good player under contract next year rather than clearing $20M of cap space. Hayward plus full MLE is far better than they would do with $20M.

Pacers and Spurs and Pistons just don't have enough salary worth of decent players and the good stuff has been picked over from Utah. Hornets and Hayward just make sense. And Ball is going to understand that winning 21 games is better than winning 25 games anyway and this gives him a chance to start recruiting his guys.

And I'll ask you this, do you think Gordon Hayward is going to stay healthy enough to effectively skip over '23 FA period? Because I certainly don't.

No idea. But I do know Hayward plus full MLE player feels better to me than $20M FA(or worse split up) and room exception player. And I'd take the risk because without some risk, how is LA supposed to compete?

I just think this Lakers fan plan of playing out this year and then playing in FA with not much money, is odd. Their problem the past several years has been way too much dependence on min players. And they've gotten burned which should surprise nobody. I think they already blew their best chance to turn Westbrook's salary into multiple good contributors. But its not too late to improve the roster not only this year but set themselves up better for next year.

[MoneyTalks41890]

“Consensual relationship” is in Woj’s tweet, but does not appear in Woj’s much longer story…

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34639780/boston-celtics-coach-ime-udoka-facing-potential-disciplinary-action-team-violation-sources-say

If it wasn’t really “Consensual“ then I don’t think any type of suspension option would be on the table here, he would be fired. Something seems missing here.

If it was a boss subordinate situation, I can see the desire not to include that term regardless of whether both people seemed happy.

Looks like I might have been onto something here. However the reporting and info about this is still really strange in terms of how it’s coming out and how it’s being described.

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[MoneyTalks41890]

Saw a tweet that made some sense. Bring in Frank Vogel. He’d be a good stable hire for the Celtics.

It seems like the Celtics are trying to get Udoka to just quit, maybe they don’t want to pay out his contract. I’m not sure what the specifics are. But there’s a process reason they didn’t fire him imo.

[BlazersBroncos]

Ime put in years of being a top tier assistant HC only to throw it away in this selfish mess. What an idiot. Wasnt a bad coach either.

[DanishLakerFan]

I think the best solution to the Westbrook saga is Westbrook/pick with top 4 protections for Hayward/Oubre. Hornets aren't competing this year, get some more flexibility next year, pick up pick when Ball has them a consistent playoff team or another asset when he doesn't and they are rebuilding yet again. Lakers get a very talented guy, and you should have two of he, Lebron, and AD most RS nights and you hope all 3 are healthy come playoff team. You haven't mortgaged the farm and you actually have a good player under contract next year rather than clearing $20M of cap space. Hayward plus full MLE is far better than they would do with $20M.

Pacers and Spurs and Pistons just don't have enough salary worth of decent players and the good stuff has been picked over from Utah. Hornets and Hayward just make sense. And Ball is going to understand that winning 21 games is better than winning 25 games anyway and this gives him a chance to start recruiting his guys.

And I'll ask you this, do you think Gordon Hayward is going to stay healthy enough to effectively skip over '23 FA period? Because I certainly don't.

No idea. But I do know Hayward plus full MLE player feels better to me than $20M FA(or worse split up) and room exception player. And I'd take the risk because without some risk, how is LA supposed to compete?

I just think this Lakers fan plan of playing out this year and then playing in FA with not much money, is odd. Their problem the past several years has been way too much dependence on min players. And they've gotten burned which should surprise nobody. I think they already blew their best chance to turn Westbrook's salary into multiple good contributors. But its not too late to improve the roster not only this year but set themselves up better for next year.

I'd say we are a bit beyond odd. They haven't been able to put together a team that makes sense since the title-year, and at Lebron's age it doesn't make sense to kick the can down the road for free agency. A FA-class which sucks, btw.
The front office has been a dumpster-fire since Dr. Buss died. Jim Buss got all of the blame, while likeable-Jeanie flies under the radar.
Considering switching my fandom to another team.

[Godaddycurse]

Saw a tweet that made some sense. Bring in Frank Vogel. He’d be a good stable hire for the Celtics.

It seems like the Celtics are trying to get Udoka to just quit, maybe they don’t want to pay out his contract. I’m not sure what the specifics are. But there’s a process reason they didn’t fire him imo.

If he is suspended then is this a year off his contract? or does he still have the same term left?

[Karmaloop]

No idea. But I do know Hayward plus full MLE player feels better to me than $20M FA(or worse split up) and room exception player. And I'd take the risk because without some risk, how is LA supposed to compete?

I just think this Lakers fan plan of playing out this year and then playing in FA with not much money, is odd. Their problem the past several years has been way too much dependence on min players. And they've gotten burned which should surprise nobody. I think they already blew their best chance to turn Westbrook's salary into multiple good contributors. But its not too late to improve the roster not only this year but set themselves up better for next year.

I have zero faith that Gordon Hayward is going to be available for more than ~half the games in a given season. He's averaged 48 games played over the last 3 seasons, and he's only played in 60+ games once in the last five seasons. I'd be surprised if any team got 50+ games out of him, and counting on him to do more than that seems foolish at best. And the latest iteration of numbers showed the Lakers closer to $30M in cap space. I'd rather gamble on that $30M in cap space than Gordon Hayward, since Hayward would effectively eat up majority of that cap space. Hayward and n-tMLE seems like the worst scenario rather than the $30M in cap space plus the Miami Heat exception. You can go out and sign a $18M and a $12M player and then sign a quality FA with the Heat exception.

Last year's players had nothing to do with their minimum players. It had to do with the fact that LeBron and Anthony Davis were injured.

[Texas Chuck]

Last year's players had nothing to do with their minimum players. It had to do with the fact that LeBron and Anthony Davis were injured.

Seems like if instead of Westbrook, you had those solid vets that were traded for him, you'd have been better able to withstand that no? Or if ownership was willing to pay more tax with their huge TV deal more than making that doable, you could have kept Caruso, or at least not made the decision we all know was dumb at the time to pay THT instead.

All those decisions lead to a bunch of vets who can't play any more plus kids who can't really play yet and leads people to think Austin Reeves is some great player just because he looked semi-competent in comparison.

I just would rather have more options. I agree Hayward is risky, but at this point their options are really limited. And punting on this year for cap space next year just feels foolish. Lebron has shown clear signs of aging. He's not that guy who plays 38 mpg for 80 games any longer. But he's still so good, that getting him into the playoffs with the highest seed possible seems smarter than playing for next year.

[Karmaloop]

Seems like if instead of Westbrook, you had those solid vets that were traded for him, you'd have been better able to withstand that no? Or if ownership was willing to pay more tax with their huge TV deal more than making that doable, you could have kept Caruso, or at least not made the decision we all know was dumb at the time to pay THT instead.

All those decisions lead to a bunch of vets who can't play any more plus kids who can't really play yet and leads people to think Austin Reeves is some great player just because he looked semi-competent in comparison.

I just would rather have more options. I agree Hayward is risky, but at this point their options are really limited. And punting on this year for cap space next year just feels foolish. Lebron has shown clear signs of aging. He's not that guy who plays 38 mpg for 80 games any longer. But he's still so good, that getting him into the playoffs with the highest seed possible seems smarter than playing for next year.

Coming off their championship season, the glaring issues was that the Lakers needed a secondary playmaker. They acquired Dennis Schroder, but he was more concerned about individual production than team production and chasing a big contract. When that whole situation turned over, they turned to Russell Westbrook. But if you look at that championship team and the year after, they were consistently a top defensive team. They regressed badly last year defensively, and I don't think it's fair to put it all on Russell Westbrook. The only "plus" defender they traded for Westbrook was KCP. But they also lost Alex Caruso in FA because they thought THT was ready to take that next step. If you look at last year's FA signings, they were all busts except Carmelo and Monk.

By trading for Hayward, you're committing $30M to him. There's no way to turn it into a different player, especially if/when the injuries happen.

[Colbinii]

Seems like if instead of Westbrook, you had those solid vets that were traded for him, you'd have been better able to withstand that no? Or if ownership was willing to pay more tax with their huge TV deal more than making that doable, you could have kept Caruso, or at least not made the decision we all know was dumb at the time to pay THT instead.

All those decisions lead to a bunch of vets who can't play any more plus kids who can't really play yet and leads people to think Austin Reeves is some great player just because he looked semi-competent in comparison.

I just would rather have more options. I agree Hayward is risky, but at this point their options are really limited. And punting on this year for cap space next year just feels foolish. Lebron has shown clear signs of aging. He's not that guy who plays 38 mpg for 80 games any longer. But he's still so good, that getting him into the playoffs with the highest seed possible seems smarter than playing for next year.

Coming off their championship season, the glaring issues was that the Lakers needed a secondary playmaker. They acquired Dennis Schroder, but he was more concerned about individual production than team production and chasing a big contract. When that whole situation turned over, they turned to Russell Westbrook. But if you look at that championship team and the year after, they were consistently a top defensive team. They regressed badly last year defensively, and I don't think it's fair to put it all on Russell Westbrook. The only "plus" defender they traded for Westbrook was KCP. But they also lost Alex Caruso in FA because they thought THT was ready to take that next step. If you look at last year's FA signings, they were all busts except Carmelo and Monk.

By trading for Hayward, you're committing $30M to him. There's no way to turn it into a different player, especially if/when the injuries happen.

It will be easier to trade Hayward into a different player than it was Russell Westbrook, and if Westbrook can turn into Hayward I have to imagine an expiring Hayward can be turned into something useful as well.

[Scoot McGroot]

No idea. But I do know Hayward plus full MLE player feels better to me than $20M FA(or worse split up) and room exception player. And I'd take the risk because without some risk, how is LA supposed to compete?

I just think this Lakers fan plan of playing out this year and then playing in FA with not much money, is odd. Their problem the past several years has been way too much dependence on min players. And they've gotten burned which should surprise nobody. I think they already blew their best chance to turn Westbrook's salary into multiple good contributors. But its not too late to improve the roster not only this year but set themselves up better for next year.

I have zero faith that Gordon Hayward is going to be available for more than ~half the games in a given season. He's averaged 48 games played over the last 3 seasons, and he's only played in 60+ games once in the last five seasons. I'd be surprised if any team got 50+ games out of him, and counting on him to do more than that seems foolish at best. And the latest iteration of numbers showed the Lakers closer to $30M in cap space. I'd rather gamble on that $30M in cap space than Gordon Hayward, since Hayward would effectively eat up majority of that cap space. Hayward and n-tMLE seems like the worst scenario rather than the $30M in cap space plus the Miami Heat exception. You can go out and sign a $18M and a $12M player and then sign a quality FA with the Heat exception.

Last year's players had nothing to do with their minimum players. It had to do with the fact that LeBron and Anthony Davis were injured.

To be fair, he played more than half the games every one of those last 3 seasons. Remember, 2 of those 3 seasons were 72 games long (shortened by Covid). He played about 64% of games those 3 regular seasons, so roughly 2/3?

Maybe a mistype or autocorrect, but what’s a Miami Heat exception?

[Bornstellar]

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Didnt think this needed a new thread since no one cares about SA news but good for them and hope Candice does a good job

[MoneyTalks41890]

Read on Twitter

Didnt think this needed a new thread since no one cares about SA news but good for them and hope Candice does a good job

I think it's great that Pop is helping well-qualified basketball minds break into the NBA. It's a transition with some hoops and hurdles for sure. But with the Popovich stamp of approval some of the stigma melts away.

[Texas Chuck]

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Didnt think this needed a new thread since no one cares about SA news but good for them and hope Candice does a good job

Not sure why you think this board doesn't care about news from any specific team? Now this board may not care as much as you, just as it probably doesn't care as much about the little Mavs as I do, but the board regs definitely care about all 30 teams.

Not sure how much we care about assistant coaches--some of us care for sure, many probably don't. But its got nothing to do with it being San Antonio, one of most highly regarded franchises in the league and a team that has been relevant for half a century with almost no exception. And even now that they are clearly not a playoff team, I think lots of us are interested to see how the Spurs handle that. They tanked and got rewarded with Duncan, but that just isn't what they do so this is fascinating.

[Bornstellar]

Read on Twitter

Didnt think this needed a new thread since no one cares about SA news but good for them and hope Candice does a good job

Not sure why you think this board doesn't care about news from any specific team? Now this board may not care as much as you, just as it probably doesn't care as much about the little Mavs as I do, but the board regs definitely care about all 30 teams.

Not sure how much we care about assistant coaches--some of us care for sure, many probably don't. But its got nothing to do with it being San Antonio, one of most highly regarded franchises in the league and a team that has been relevant for half a century with almost no exception. And even now that they are clearly not a playoff team, I think lots of us are interested to see how the Spurs handle that. They tanked and got rewarded with Duncan, but that just isn't what they do so this is fascinating.

It's not a big deal. I had just considered making a thread in the GB but figured it'd get buried quickly so just decided it may be more appropriate in this thread

[gom]

Horrible news about Ime Udoka if such accusations are true, and imho too harsh a punishment. He's an incredible coach. I was so impressed with his work against the Heat last season.

Quoting my own post to eat some crow. I had presumed (mostly because I knew so little about the incident) Ime Udoka was busted for having a consensual relationship with another Celtics employee, which isn't cool, but in my mind, forgivable. That doesn't sound like what happened anymore.

[kobe_vs_jordan]

Last year's players had nothing to do with their minimum players. It had to do with the fact that LeBron and Anthony Davis were injured.

Seems like if instead of Westbrook, you had those solid vets that were traded for him, you'd have been better able to withstand that no? Or if ownership was willing to pay more tax with their huge TV deal more than making that doable, you could have kept Caruso, or at least not made the decision we all know was dumb at the time to pay THT instead.

Seen that script of role players trying to carry the weight for injured AD and Lebron. Lakers lost a ton of games when they were out. Was well below .500 . Lebron /AD rush back and finishes the season as a shell and lose to Suns

In theory WB stat padding when AD/Lebron is injured should kept them close to .500 . replacing Caruso with Nunn was thought to be win. Both plan a and plan b whiffed.

[loserX]

Jazz are now up to 18 guaranteed contracts on the roster. Still time for more moves, but I imagine that prospective buyout list is getting worked on pretty hard.

If it had to happen today, I'm guessing
- Stanley Johnson
- Saban Lee
- Rudy Gay?
- Nickeil Alexander-Walker?
- maybe Mike Conley in a combination "let him sign with a contender" and "but also tank" move

[Karmaloop]

Jazz are now up to 18 guaranteed contracts on the roster. Still time for more moves, but I imagine that prospective buyout list is getting worked on pretty hard.

If it had to happen today, I'm guessing
- Stanley Johnson
- Saban Lee
- Rudy Gay?
- Nickeil Alexander-Walker?
- maybe Mike Conley in a combination "let him sign with a contender" and "but also tank" move

Rudy Gay seems like the obvious choice here. Given the amount of cash the Jazz got in the Bogey trade, I'd suspect Lee might be on the outside looking in. And the Jazz could have done the Beverley/THT deal with Wenyen Gabriel instead, but they included Stanley Johnson. I'd have to imagine the Lakers preferred Johnson to Gabriel.

[loserX]

Jazz are now up to 18 guaranteed contracts on the roster. Still time for more moves, but I imagine that prospective buyout list is getting worked on pretty hard.

If it had to happen today, I'm guessing
- Stanley Johnson
- Saban Lee
- Rudy Gay?
- Nickeil Alexander-Walker?
- maybe Mike Conley in a combination "let him sign with a contender" and "but also tank" move

Rudy Gay seems like the obvious choice here.

Probably. Just depends on
1) if the relationship is as fractured as some reports have suggested, and
2) whether Danny's willing to give up and accept Rudy's dead money on next year's cap, or wants to gamble that he can dump it somehow.

Could go either way but I agree a buyout is probably the way to bet right now.