ESPN NBA top 100 for 2022

[Patsfan1081]

Did they really put Grant Williams, a mediocre 20mpg bench player, on a top 100 list?

From this entire list of nonsense that's what you had a problem with?

There's at least 5 guys on this list he deserves to be ahead of, especially rookies that haven't played a single NBA minute compared to a guy that's a very good defender and contributes in ways that don't always show up on the box-score.

From the players not on the list, who would you have put ahead of him?

He’s a Celtic player so its not surprising he’s the one player everdiso is singling out. This is the same person that said Jaylen Brown was a role player more suited for the bench, maybe time to stop the Boston hate…..

[Patsfan1081]

The Celtics defended Curry as best they could and he and his team beat them.

I didn't and wouldn't say Giannis has no argument over Curry though, he definitely does have an argument. Curry has been the best player to build a team around for most of a decade imo however, and I would only take Giannis ahead of Curry myself because he has many years of his prime ahead of him; although Curry still may offer GSW enough for 2 more tilts at the title, also imo obviously.

The Celtics defended the Warriors the best they could. They weren't focused on stopping Curry as an individual, hence the drop coverage

As I said, Curry is the best player to build a team around.

He’s a top three player in the league but thats different. Youre not picking Curry over some of the young stars to build around with his age.

[Rainwater]

Omg cbs list is SO much better despite some things id certainly disagree with. Someone start a thread of their list. Blows this one out the water.

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I really don't think cbs is much better. I don't know how you have Steph and Durant at their age over Embiid, Doncic, and the two time MVP Joker. It makes no sense.

[Rainwater]

Good job by ESPN on the Top 5. Have not paid attention to the rest of the list.

Giannis, Jokic and Embiid are the three most dominant forces in the league right now. That's top 3 (even if Embiid was put at #4, they still had him Top 5).

Then it's down to Luka and Steph.

Both are Top 5, so no one is "snubbed" here. But, the list is forward-looking (who is better this upcoming season) when Steph will turn 35 and Luka will turn 24.

Steph's on the way down. Remember when he started hot last year and the MVP talk fired up? He finished 8th, with Luka 5th. Even though the Warriors had the better team record.

You could put it either way (Steph/Luka), but I would take the 24 year old over the 35 year old.

The real story of the list is that the Top 4 guys are all foreign-born. That's the stunner.

Yeah, I would have been upset if they put Curry over Embiid, Doncic, Joker, and Giannis. They have been the better players the last few years.

[everdiso]

Did they really put Grant Williams, a mediocre 20mpg bench player, on a top 100 list?

From this entire list of nonsense that's what you had a problem with?

There's at least 5 guys on this list he deserves to be ahead of, especially rookies that haven't played a single NBA minute compared to a guy that's a very good defender and contributes in ways that don't always show up on the box-score.

From the players not on the list, who would you have put ahead of him?

About 100 guys or so, give or take.

[WarriorGM]

I don't need to twist anything, it is the proposition that all these other players should be ranked higher than Steph that is twisted beyond belief. You're pointing to SRS and point differential to argue beating the Suns made Giannis's run more impressive? 2015 was a time when league average scoring was 10 points lower and yet the team Curry led had an SRS of 10. The only thing more impressive than beating Goliath is being Goliath and Curry can claim both.

Again changing the argument because you don't have a rebuttal to the point being made. You made the claim Curry faced more impressive teams in his 2015 run, and I'm presenting to you multiple stats showing the '21 Suns were better than any of Curry's 2015 opponents. SRS is relative to the league as well, and if you adjust for league average possessions and look at it per 100, Suns are still ahead.

I don't see how showing Curry in 2015 faced stronger versions of teams hurts his case. Nor do I see how 2016 hurts either. The Thunder were a stronger team than any Giannis has beaten.

Except that you haven't shown that. Again, you've yet to refute the numbers about 2021 Phoenix vs. 2015 Curry opponents.

The meaning you ascribe to the numbers are suspect which I would have told you during the recent playoffs when I was opining that Doncic had a good chance of dumping the Suns which he and company eventually did.

Do you care about numbers or do you care about results? Maybe that's why you overestimate Giannis.

You listed the awards Giannis can claim and I showed Curry one-ups him throughout. Giannis has been great and if Curry wasn't around I could see an argument. But Curry is around. So no dice.

Lol, so because Giannis doesn't have the longevity of a 34 year old, he's a "new guy"? Calling a 6x all-star and 6x all-NBA player a "new guy" to dismiss him is pretty funny. You were arguing Curry as the best player and better than LeBron in 2017 when Curry had less all-NBA teams and less all-star appearances than current Giannis, but now in 2022 when it's someone else, Giannis is just a "new guy"

Also, I'm responding to claims you're making, but let's be clear here - Curry's body of work and awards from 2015/2016, while incredible, doesn't mean jack when we're talking about who's the best player right now. You seem to want to turn this in to a legacy vs legacy comparison, which it isn't. I'm willing to go back a couple years, but if we're talking about who's the best right now, achievements that far in the past straight up don't matter.

Giannis is a new guy and hasn't established himself in comparison. Even after Curry led a team to the best record in the league and a championship in what was recognized by some even then in 2015 a historic manner beating the rest of the First Team All-NBA on the way, there were many who questioned if the Warriors championship was legit and indeed many now who are in the midst of being embarrassed by Curry probably didn't even give it a thought that he was the best player in the league. At the end of 2016 the refrain was LeBron was actually the best player all along. Sorry but what Giannis has currently done is ordinary next to what Curry had accomplished by the end of 2016. It's also rather ordinary next to what Curry just did which is taking a team that was dead last in the league and turning it into a champion in two years. So yes the best player is Stephen Curry and that is by weighting recent accomplishment.

[FreeThrowLine]

Did they really put Grant Williams, a mediocre 20mpg bench player, on a top 100 list?

From this entire list of nonsense that's what you had a problem with?

There's at least 5 guys on this list he deserves to be ahead of, especially rookies that haven't played a single NBA minute compared to a guy that's a very good defender and contributes in ways that don't always show up on the box-score.

From the players not on the list, who would you have put ahead of him?

About 100 guys or so, give or take.

Just to be clear and make sure I understand you, you're saying you could name approximately 100 players NOT on this list, that should be there ahead of Williams, basically ranking him around 200th in the league, is that correct?

[everdiso]

From this entire list of nonsense that's what you had a problem with?

There's at least 5 guys on this list he deserves to be ahead of, especially rookies that haven't played a single NBA minute compared to a guy that's a very good defender and contributes in ways that don't always show up on the box-score.

From the players not on the list, who would you have put ahead of him?

About 100 guys or so, give or take.

Just to be clear and make sure I understand you, you're saying you could name approximately 100 players NOT on this list, that should be there ahead of Williams, basically ranking him around 200th in the league, is that correct?

yup.

A top 100 list ends with guys who would be approximately the 3rd best player on an average team. Obviously Grant is nowhere near that.

A top 200 list ends with guys who would be approximately the 6th/7th best player on an average team. Grant would be somewhere in there.

[FreeThrowLine]

About 100 guys or so, give or take.

Just to be clear and make sure I understand you, you're saying you could name approximately 100 players NOT on this list, that should be there ahead of Williams, basically ranking him around 200th in the league, is that correct?

yup.

A top 100 list ends with guys who would be approximately the 3rd best player on an average team. Obviously Grant is nowhere near that.

A top 200 list ends with guys who would be approximately the 6th/7th best player on an average team. Grant would be somewhere in there.

Yeah, that's not how it works. The talent isn't just spread evenly between each team, the 6th best player on one team might be the 2nd best player on another and so on. I can't tell if you're being serious but no way is Williams that low

[nikster]

About 100 guys or so, give or take.

Just to be clear and make sure I understand you, you're saying you could name approximately 100 players NOT on this list, that should be there ahead of Williams, basically ranking him around 200th in the league, is that correct?

yup.

A top 100 list ends with guys who would be approximately the 3rd best player on an average team. Obviously Grant is nowhere near that.

A top 200 list ends with guys who would be approximately the 6th/7th best player on an average team. Grant would be somewhere in there.

"Analysis" doesn't get any laizer than this. He was 5th in playoff minutes for a contender that made the finals. There's lots of players starting or getting big minutes on bad or tanking teams that are less impactful.

Considering you can't name even a few players you rank ahead of him says you didn't really put any thought into this

[JujitsuFlip]

These rankings are not accurate, lol

[Prez]

The meaning you ascribe to the numbers are suspect which I would have told you during the recent playoffs when I was opining that Doncic had a good chance of dumping the Suns which he and company eventually did.

Do you care about numbers or do you care about results? Maybe that's why you overestimate Giannis.

Again, if your logic to discredit those numbers is the Suns' follow-up season results, then we can play that same game by looking at Curry's 2015 opponents in their follow-up seasons, when 3 of his 4 opponents were .500 level first round exits or worse. And the sole exception being Cleveland, who Curry blew a 3-1 lead to. Sorry, but if you want to use that logic against Giannis, it works even worse against Curry.

Giannis is a new guy and hasn't established himself in comparison. Even after Curry led a team to the best record in the league and a championship in what was recognized by some even then in 2015 a historic manner beating the rest of the First Team All-NBA on the way, there were many who questioned if the Warriors championship was legit and indeed many now who are in the midst of being embarrassed by Curry probably didn't even give it a thought that he was the best player in the league. At the end of 2016 the refrain was LeBron was actually the best player all along. Sorry but what Giannis has currently done is ordinary next to what Curry had accomplished by the end of 2016. It's also rather ordinary next to what Curry just did which is taking a team that was dead last in the league and turning it into a champion in two years. So yes the best player is Stephen Curry and that is by weighting recent accomplishment.

Giannis currently:

Spoiler:

6x All-Star
6x All-NBA
5x All-Defense
2x MVP
1x DPOY
1x Champion
1x Finals MVP

Curry by the end of 2016:

Spoiler:

4x All-Star
3x All-NBA
2x MVP
1x Scoring Champion
1x Champion

Yeah, "ordinary" indeed.

And again, Curry's career body of work doesn't matter when it comes to evaluating how good they are in 2022. It's kinda the reason why Giannis was voted #1 by this board, #1 on ESPN's list, #1 on CBS' list, etc. despite not having the career accolades of Curry. And also why LeBron isn't still considered the consensus best player in the world.

And what a way to twist the Warriors bottoming out in 2020 as a positive for Curry, lol. The Warriors in 2020 had literally just 3 guys in their top 12 in minutes played that were in the 2022 Warriors top 12 - rookie Jordan Poole (who was terrible), Draymond, and Lee. I'm personally stunned that the Warriors sucked when they had a rotation filled with bad/fringe NBA players and then got way better after adding Curry, Klay, Wiggins, Looney, OPJ, GP2, etc into their rotation and getting a Poole 3rd year breakout.

[nikster]

I don't need to twist anything, it is the proposition that all these other players should be ranked higher than Steph that is twisted beyond belief. You're pointing to SRS and point differential to argue beating the Suns made Giannis's run more impressive? 2015 was a time when league average scoring was 10 points lower and yet the team Curry led had an SRS of 10. The only thing more impressive than beating Goliath is being Goliath and Curry can claim both.

Again changing the argument because you don't have a rebuttal to the point being made. You made the claim Curry faced more impressive teams in his 2015 run, and I'm presenting to you multiple stats showing the '21 Suns were better than any of Curry's 2015 opponents. SRS is relative to the league as well, and if you adjust for league average possessions and look at it per 100, Suns are still ahead.

I don't see how showing Curry in 2015 faced stronger versions of teams hurts his case. Nor do I see how 2016 hurts either. The Thunder were a stronger team than any Giannis has beaten.

Except that you haven't shown that. Again, you've yet to refute the numbers about 2021 Phoenix vs. 2015 Curry opponents.

The meaning you ascribe to the numbers are suspect which I would have told you during the recent playoffs when I was opining that Doncic had a good chance of dumping the Suns which he and company eventually did.

Do you care about numbers or do you care about results? Maybe that's why you overestimate Giannis.

You listed the awards Giannis can claim and I showed Curry one-ups him throughout. Giannis has been great and if Curry wasn't around I could see an argument. But Curry is around. So no dice.

Lol, so because Giannis doesn't have the longevity of a 34 year old, he's a "new guy"? Calling a 6x all-star and 6x all-NBA player a "new guy" to dismiss him is pretty funny. You were arguing Curry as the best player and better than LeBron in 2017 when Curry had less all-NBA teams and less all-star appearances than current Giannis, but now in 2022 when it's someone else, Giannis is just a "new guy"

Also, I'm responding to claims you're making, but let's be clear here - Curry's body of work and awards from 2015/2016, while incredible, doesn't mean jack when we're talking about who's the best player right now. You seem to want to turn this in to a legacy vs legacy comparison, which it isn't. I'm willing to go back a couple years, but if we're talking about who's the best right now, achievements that far in the past straight up don't matter.

Giannis is a new guy and hasn't established himself in comparison. Even after Curry led a team to the best record in the league and a championship in what was recognized by some even then in 2015 a historic manner beating the rest of the First Team All-NBA on the way, there were many who questioned if the Warriors championship was legit and indeed many now who are in the midst of being embarrassed by Curry probably didn't even give it a thought that he was the best player in the league. At the end of 2016 the refrain was LeBron was actually the best player all along. Sorry but what Giannis has currently done is ordinary next to what Curry had accomplished by the end of 2016. It's also rather ordinary next to what Curry just did which is taking a team that was dead last in the league and turning it into a champion in two years. So yes the best player is Stephen Curry and that is by weighting recent accomplishment.

You're comparing 2021 and 2015 and say we should only focus on results? Then How do you compare 2 seasons in which both players lead a team to a title?

Funny a guy who hates people diminishing Curry's 2015 competition is so quick to do the same for Giannis in 2021

[WarriorGM]

The meaning you ascribe to the numbers are suspect which I would have told you during the recent playoffs when I was opining that Doncic had a good chance of dumping the Suns which he and company eventually did.

Do you care about numbers or do you care about results? Maybe that's why you overestimate Giannis.

Again, if your logic to discredit those numbers is the Suns' follow-up season results, then we can play that same game by looking at Curry's 2015 opponents in their follow-up seasons, when 3 of his 4 opponents were .500 level first round exits or worse. And the sole exception being Cleveland, who Curry blew a 3-1 lead to. Sorry, but if you want to use that logic against Giannis, it works even worse against Curry.

As I previously said your argument makes no sense and is not comparable to the point that I made. The important detail is that the stronger version of the team was played not that they played a team that came a year later. The 2022 Suns by the measures you bring up were a stronger team than the 2021 finalist version but they lost to the Mavericks. Maybe it should be asked which playoffs series was more impressive: Doncic's win against the Suns in 2022 or Giannis's in 2021? Furthermore the Suns were a young team getting more experienced while a team like the Grizzlies were an experienced team getting older. Your attempted parallelism doesn't work.

Your 2016 comments with regard to Curry don't make any sense either. Curry in the following 2016 season led a team that set the regular season wins record, was unanimous MVP and made the finals. Giannis in 2022 led a team to a tied 6th-8th best record in the league and exited in the conference semi-finals. How does Curry come off worse?

Giannis is a new guy and hasn't established himself in comparison. Even after Curry led a team to the best record in the league and a championship in what was recognized by some even then in 2015 a historic manner beating the rest of the First Team All-NBA on the way, there were many who questioned if the Warriors championship was legit and indeed many now who are in the midst of being embarrassed by Curry probably didn't even give it a thought that he was the best player in the league. At the end of 2016 the refrain was LeBron was actually the best player all along. Sorry but what Giannis has currently done is ordinary next to what Curry had accomplished by the end of 2016. It's also rather ordinary next to what Curry just did which is taking a team that was dead last in the league and turning it into a champion in two years. So yes the best player is Stephen Curry and that is by weighting recent accomplishment.

Giannis currently:

Spoiler:

6x All-Star
6x All-NBA
5x All-Defense
2x MVP
1x DPOY
1x Champion
1x Finals MVP

Curry by the end of 2016:

Spoiler:

4x All-Star
3x All-NBA
2x MVP
1x Scoring Champion
1x Champion

Yeah, "ordinary" indeed.

And again, Curry's career body of work doesn't matter when it comes to evaluating how good they are in 2022. It's kinda the reason why Giannis was voted #1 by this board, #1 on ESPN's list, #1 on CBS' list, etc. despite not having the career accolades of Curry. And also why LeBron isn't still considered the consensus best player in the world.

And what a way to twist the Warriors bottoming out in 2020 as a positive for Curry, lol. The Warriors in 2020 had literally just 3 guys in their top 12 in minutes played that were in the 2022 Warriors top 12 - rookie Jordan Poole (who was terrible), Draymond, and Lee. I'm personally stunned that the Warriors sucked when they had a rotation filled with bad/fringe NBA players and then got way better after adding Curry, Klay, Wiggins, Looney, OPJ, GP2, etc into their rotation and getting a Poole 3rd year breakout.

Yes those media awards are ordinary. Every year they are given out by the media that creates stupid lists like the one that is the topic of this thread. Even among those subjective awards Curry's unanimous as of now remains one of a kind. Then there are the records and singular accomplishments. 73-win record. From bottom to top in two years. Giannis hasn't even led the regular season and won a championship in the same year or repeated a finals appearance and the sole previous champion he beat was KD.

#1 by this board, ESPN and CBS? Idiocy all around (or more likely really agenda setting) which is why I am calling it out.

[Big J]

Curry 5th is idiotic.

[Cubbies2120]

Curry 5th is idiotic.

Yep, you can swap him and Embiid IMO.

[michaelm]

double.

[michaelm]

Omg cbs list is SO much better despite some things id certainly disagree with. Someone start a thread of their list. Blows this one out the water.

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

I really don't think cbs is much better. I don't know how you have Steph and Durant at their age over Embiid, Doncic, and the two time MVP Joker. It makes no sense.

'How good a player is now and what his quality may be prospectively are 2 different questions as I see it.

Curry will eventually retire and will likely decline before doing so. I don't see how that is relevant to his quality as a player just now given his most recent game was the game his team won to clinch a finals series with him as FMVP.

[Big J]

Curry 5th is idiotic.

Yep, you can swap him and Embiid IMO.

At the very least. He outplayed both Luka & Joker in the playoffs last year.

[TheLand13]

Yes correlation with winning.



It's great that you bring up Curry's opposition in 2015 which predictably has come up because there seems to be the idiotic belief and made-up narrative about how it was a supposedly weak run to downplay Curry's achievements. It should be an instructive comparison because if Curry's 2015 run was unimpressive what are we to make of Giannis's?

Imagine trying to argue that Curry's 2015 run was more impressive than the one Giannis had in 2021. Your bat **** insane logic never ceases to surprise me, no matter how over the top it is.