ESPN NBA top 100 for 2022

[michaelm]

The Celtics defended the Warriors the best they could. They weren't focused on stopping Curry as an individual, hence the drop coverage

As I said, Curry is the best player to build a team around.

He’s a top three player in the league but thats different. Youre not picking Curry over some of the young stars to build around with his age.

Sure, I already said this.

The post you quoted was part of a back and forth discussion. Of course anyone would pick Giannis in particular over Curry to build a team around for the next 5 or 10 years. My point also expressed earlier in the exchange was my long term view that for nearly a decade Curry has been the best ceiling raiser in the NBA, although other players including Lebron and Giannis may have a greater sum of individual attributes considered in isolation. Curry might at best have only a couple of years left at his current level, but that level was still sufficient for him to be FMVP on a title winning team, and until he declines he hasn’t declined. The team mates now being argued on this thread to be superior to the team mates of the other top players were mostly not considered to be so at the start of the most recent season, or as recently as the day before the finals started in the case of the Celtics, before they got rolling with Curry.

[Cubbies2120]

Curry 5th is idiotic.

Yep, you can swap him and Embiid IMO.

At the very least. He outplayed both Luka & Joker in the playoffs last year.

His team sure outplayed those 2's teams, for sure.

[michaelm]

Yep, you can swap him and Embiid IMO.

At the very least. He outplayed both Luka & Joker in the playoffs last year.

His team sure outplayed those 2's teams, for sure.

Funny how Curry's team mates keep being better than those of other players.

[Big J]

Yep, you can swap him and Embiid IMO.

At the very least. He outplayed both Luka & Joker in the playoffs last year.

His team sure outplayed those 2's teams, for sure.

That’s funny, I don’t seem to remember Luka or Curry’s teammates winning the Western Conference Finals MVP award.

[papajoe]

Very wrong to put Embiid ahead of Curry. Embiid isn't a winner, as we saw the Simmons-led Sixers get #1 seed with .681, and the next season without Simmons they only won .622.

This just never happened lmao. 18 games isnt a season. And the difference between .681 and .622 is nothing

[michaelm]

Very wrong to put Embiid ahead of Curry. Embiid isn't a winner, as we saw the Simmons-led Sixers get #1 seed with .681, and the next season without Simmons they only won .622.

This just never happened lmao. 18 games isnt a season. And the difference between .681 and .622 is nothing

It is a post season however, and titles are awarded on the basis of the post season, not that I disagree about Simmons vs Embiid unless Simmons is drastically better playing elsewhere without Embiid.

[WarriorGM]

Yes correlation with winning.



It's great that you bring up Curry's opposition in 2015 which predictably has come up because there seems to be the idiotic belief and made-up narrative about how it was a supposedly weak run to downplay Curry's achievements. It should be an instructive comparison because if Curry's 2015 run was unimpressive what are we to make of Giannis's?

Imagine trying to argue that Curry's 2015 run was more impressive than the one Giannis had in 2021. Your bat **** insane logic never ceases to surprise me, no matter how over the top it is.

Imagine trying to argue that it wasn't. You guys are the ones with bat **** logic. Note that you haven't given a single piece of supporting evidence for your argument. Only thing I've heard so far from others is that Giannis outscored the Suns. I guess that's why some of you think Doncic is in the conversation too?

[Cubbies2120]

At the very least. He outplayed both Luka & Joker in the playoffs last year.

His team sure outplayed those 2's teams, for sure.

Funny how Curry's team mates keep being better than those of other players.

I mean, they always have been. Remember 2016 when Curry went down in the playoffs and they barely missed a beat?

They went 4-2 without Curry (a 1 pt loss included), and in one of the wins WITH Curry, it was tied when he went out of the game (injury) and the Warriors outscored Rockets by 27 without Curry.

He has been blessed with incredible teammates. I mean, we know that in some of the most crucial games in the playoffs (Game 6), Curry is often not the best Warrior...

[michaelm]

His team sure outplayed those 2's teams, for sure.

Funny how Curry's team mates keep being better than those of other players.

I mean, they always have been. Remember 2016 when Curry went down in the playoffs and they barely missed a beat?

They went 4-2 without Curry (a 1 pt loss included), and in one of the wins WITH Curry, it was tied when he went out of the game (injury) and the Warriors outscored Rockets by 27 without Curry.

He has been blessed with incredible teammates. I mean, we know that in some of the most crucial games in the playoffs (Game 6), Curry is often not the best Warrior...

Yes, it is well established that you don’t do irony.

[nikster]

Yes correlation with winning.



It's great that you bring up Curry's opposition in 2015 which predictably has come up because there seems to be the idiotic belief and made-up narrative about how it was a supposedly weak run to downplay Curry's achievements. It should be an instructive comparison because if Curry's 2015 run was unimpressive what are we to make of Giannis's?

Imagine trying to argue that Curry's 2015 run was more impressive than the one Giannis had in 2021. Your bat **** insane logic never ceases to surprise me, no matter how over the top it is.

Imagine trying to argue that it wasn't. You guys are the ones with bat **** logic. Note that you haven't given a single piece of supporting evidence for your argument. Only thing I've heard so far from others is that Giannis outscored the Suns. I guess that's why some of you think Doncic is in the conversation too?

The only evidence you gave for 2015 was that curry faced more experienced teams (there was no real argument for more talented or better)

[jbk1234]

I'll say this, the pundit lists in general tend to overvalue offensive box stats and seriously underrate two-way players who have legitimate offensive games. I get that Leonard and PG have been injured a lot, but give me an idea as far as how down you're sliding players because of that. They should be right there with Butler otherwise.

[michaelm]

His team sure outplayed those 2's teams, for sure.

Funny how Curry's team mates keep being better than those of other players.

I mean, they always have been. Remember 2016 when Curry went down in the playoffs and they barely missed a beat?

They went 4-2 without Curry (a 1 pt loss included), and in one of the wins WITH Curry, it was tied when he went out of the game (injury) and the Warriors outscored Rockets by 27 without Curry.

He has been blessed with incredible teammates. I mean, we know that in some of the most crucial games in the playoffs (Game 6), Curry is often not the best Warrior...

Yes, it is well established that you don’t do irony.

[TheLand13]

Yes correlation with winning.



It's great that you bring up Curry's opposition in 2015 which predictably has come up because there seems to be the idiotic belief and made-up narrative about how it was a supposedly weak run to downplay Curry's achievements. It should be an instructive comparison because if Curry's 2015 run was unimpressive what are we to make of Giannis's?

Imagine trying to argue that Curry's 2015 run was more impressive than the one Giannis had in 2021. Your bat **** insane logic never ceases to surprise me, no matter how over the top it is.

Imagine trying to argue that it wasn't. You guys are the ones with bat **** logic. Note that you haven't given a single piece of supporting evidence for your argument. Only thing I've heard so far from others is that Giannis outscored the Suns. I guess that's why some of you think Doncic is in the conversation too?

I don't have to. The person you're arguing with has already done that for me. The problem is that you are outright disregarding it because it proves you wrong.

I also love that you are continuing this mentality of "you guys are the ones who are dumb, I'm the only one who is making any sense". It just exposes your very obvious insecurities. You want us so badly to believe that Curry is as great as you think he is but the simple fact of the matter is, none of us will because he's not. This is what happens when you let blind fandom get in the way of logic.

[WarriorGM]

Imagine trying to argue that Curry's 2015 run was more impressive than the one Giannis had in 2021. Your bat **** insane logic never ceases to surprise me, no matter how over the top it is.

Imagine trying to argue that it wasn't. You guys are the ones with bat **** logic. Note that you haven't given a single piece of supporting evidence for your argument. Only thing I've heard so far from others is that Giannis outscored the Suns. I guess that's why some of you think Doncic is in the conversation too?

The only evidence you gave for 2015 was that curry faced more experienced teams (there was no real argument for more talented or better)

Faced teams led by First Team All-NBA players: Anthony Davis (went on to win a championship 2020), Marc Gasol (went on to win a championship 2019), LeBron James (went on to win a championship 2016). Yeah I think Curry has a case that he faced more talented and better opposition. Also harder for the other teams to distinguish themselves when they were in the same conference as a juggernaut led by Curry. If only the Rockets could have split their regular season series against the Warriors instead of being swept they'd have basically the same win % as the 2021 Suns. Shows another way how Curry is being penalized for being so dominant in the regular season aside from theoretically not being on the toughest path because he led a top seed.

[TheLand13]

Imagine trying to argue that it wasn't. You guys are the ones with bat **** logic. Note that you haven't given a single piece of supporting evidence for your argument. Only thing I've heard so far from others is that Giannis outscored the Suns. I guess that's why some of you think Doncic is in the conversation too?

The only evidence you gave for 2015 was that curry faced more experienced teams (there was no real argument for more talented or better)

Faced teams led by First Team All-NBA players: Anthony Davis (went on to win a championship 2020), Marc Gasol (went on to win a championship 2019), LeBron James (went on to win a championship 2016). Yeah I think Curry has a case that he faced more talented and better opposition.

That’s your best argument for Curry having better competition? Is this a joke?

[WarriorGM]

Imagine trying to argue that Curry's 2015 run was more impressive than the one Giannis had in 2021. Your bat **** insane logic never ceases to surprise me, no matter how over the top it is.

Imagine trying to argue that it wasn't. You guys are the ones with bat **** logic. Note that you haven't given a single piece of supporting evidence for your argument. Only thing I've heard so far from others is that Giannis outscored the Suns. I guess that's why some of you think Doncic is in the conversation too?

I don't have to. The person you're arguing with has already done that for me. The problem is that you are outright disregarding it because it proves you wrong.

Prez's use of faulty parallelism ends up as nonsense and proves nothing. That you cannot see that shows poor grasp of logic. His reliance on SRS to support his point while ignoring the Warriors influence on the SRS and win % of his opponents and the consequences of the Warriors being so dominant in the regular season also leaves something to be desired as applied to the 2015 season. Reliance on SRS when applied to the 2021 and 2022 period also favors Curry since the 2022 Celtics are a higher SRS team than the 2021 Suns. So overall even using his given methodology, he still ends up suggesting Curry is a better player currently.

I also love that you are continuing this mentality of "you guys are the ones who are dumb, I'm the only one who is making any sense". It just exposes your very obvious insecurities. You want us so badly to believe that Curry is as great as you think he is but the simple fact of the matter is, none of us will because he's not. This is what happens when you let blind fandom get in the way of logic.

Why should I be insecure? My guy won as I said he probably would despite the majority of you acting as if he had no shot. No, what this exchange more likely shows is your projected insecurities. Many of you were anticipating Curry to float into irrelevance without Durant and yet here is winning another championship and now a lot of you are doubling down on anyone except Curry being the best in the league. Merely shows what happens when people are in denial and cannot accept reality.

[WarriorGM]

The only evidence you gave for 2015 was that curry faced more experienced teams (there was no real argument for more talented or better)

Faced teams led by First Team All-NBA players: Anthony Davis (went on to win a championship 2020), Marc Gasol (went on to win a championship 2019), LeBron James (went on to win a championship 2016). Yeah I think Curry has a case that he faced more talented and better opposition.

That’s your best argument for Curry having better competition? Is this a joke?

Aside from saying is this a joke do you have a point? No? I thought not.

[Hobo4President]

At the very least. He outplayed both Luka & Joker in the playoffs last year.

His team sure outplayed those 2's teams, for sure.

Funny how Curry's team mates keep being better than those of other players.

Are you suggesting they're not? As a warriors fan would you swap supporting casts for the ones that Joker or Doncic have? I think most Mavs and Nuggets fans would love to do that and most Warriors fans would not.

[michaelm]

His team sure outplayed those 2's teams, for sure.

Funny how Curry's team mates keep being better than those of other players.

Are you suggesting they're not? As a warriors fan would you swap supporting casts for the ones that Joker or Doncic have? I think most Mavs and Nuggets fans would love to do that and most Warriors fans would not.

No, I am saying Curry elevates his team mates.

Of course Curry wouldn't have won without his team-mates and I give full credit to them for their play but their excellence is being proclaimed post hoc. Wiggins was derided, literally no other team wanted GPII, there were strong contributions from 2 other vet minimum guys, Kevon Looney was unwanted by other teams when he signed his previous contract with GSW, Thompson was coming off two and a half years away from the game with 2 career threatening injuries, Green missed a third of the season with a back injury and was widely considered well past it, etc, etc. Imo the GSW system which as Kerr himself says is Curry based allows many players to realise their talent/play at their best; not all players of course, cf Kelly Oubre. If this board had acclaimed the elite stature of his team-mates, particularly Andrew Wiggins who was so good in the finals, before the season I might have been less inclined to make the comment you quoted.

[Duffman100]

I'll say this, the pundit lists in general tend to overvalue offensive box stats and seriously underrate two-way players who have legitimate offensive games. I get that Leonard and PG have been injured a lot, but give me an idea as far as how down you're sliding players because of that. They should be right there with Butler otherwise.

100%.

That’s why having someone like siakam below people like Derozan, lavine, Mitchell etc makes no sense.

Pascal is one of the most versatile defenders in the league and doesn’t seem to be factored in at all.

I