ESPN NBA top 100 for 2022

[CharityStripe34]

ESPN TOP100 year by year

2015 Lebron Davis Durant
2016 Lebron Curry Durant
2017 Lebron Durant Kawhi
2018 Lebron Curry Harden
2019 Giannis Kawhi Lebron
2020 Lebron Davis Giannis
2021 Durant Giannis Lebron
2022 Giannis Jokic Doncic

I could only laugh at these ESPN clowns. Curry won 4 champs in 8 years and they still don't get it.

Interesting also that Giannis has made their top three four times since 2019 while Curry didnt appear once but even in that time frame Curry has made more finals appearances. Indeed Curry has made six finals appearances since 2015 which is more than anyone else on that list. His 4 championships in that time is equal or more than any two of the others won during this period combined.

They are either extremely dumb or deliberately trying to marginalize Curry.

Probably has to do with being unanimous All-NBA first-team 4x, as well as All-NBA defensive first-team.

[jokeboy86]

Woof. There's being a homer and then there's being a stan. I don't think I've ever seen so much stannery in one thread in realgm history. And I thought Canelo fans were bad.

[WarriorGM]

Woof. There's being a homer and then there's being a stan. I don't think I've ever seen so much stannery in one thread in realgm history. And I thought Canelo fans were bad.

Are you referring to me? Ask the habitues of the Warriors Board and they'll tell you I'm not a homer. I am a fan of Curry because he's the best I've seen. Some of the Warriors homers there will probably say I've driven them a bit batty. If they're being honest they should tell you I've also generally been correct. That would be because I'm pretty objective. If being objective is stanning so be it.

[HurricaneKid]

Giannis is not close to the offensive force Curry is. Curry destroyed the same Celtics defense that Giannis at times struggled with.

Look at their numbers in those series. It wasn't close.

Curry has carried plenty of bad teams to the playoffs. So what?

Wiggins is not really much better than Brunson or Jrue Holiday. Give me a break. Nuggets yes.

How is he not close? You can argue Giannis 2021 run is offensively better then any run of Curry's, with the Finals being more impressive then Curry's.

As for the numbers against the Celtics , Curry was more efficient but Giannis had 3 more points, 2 more assists and pulled in an extra 2 possessions per game with offensive rebounds. Curry's statistically better but it's certainly close.

More important is how the Celtics defended the stars. Celtics played drop coverage on Curry for the first 4 games to focus on his teammates. Predictably Curry tore up that D. As soon as they switched their coverage in game 5 Curry was slowed but Wiggins was freed up and had a big game. Imagine how Giannis would do if Celtics didn't try to wall him off of the paint with help D.

I wouldn't call 2013 a Carry job so Curry has at most carried one bad team to the playoffs (if you consider that 2014 team bad)

This is supposed to be a knock on Curry ?.

Even the widely heralded as the best defense in the NBA Celtics who had shut down KD and Giannis and had the DPOY on their roster couldn’t handle Curry with single coverage, and when they adopted a different strategy he did what he does when double or triple teamed or his shot is not falling and facilitated team mates rather than chasing his own numbers regardless.

You can pick your poison with Curry but that is pretty much it, except if other quality scoring options are lacking and LeBron James or Kawhi Leonard have no requirement to defend their direct opponent and are available to double or triple him, then sure he can be stopped, he is a 6’2” PG.

Shut down Giannis?

33.9/14.7/7.1

I mean that's some kind of compliment.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[michaelm]

How is he not close? You can argue Giannis 2021 run is offensively better then any run of Curry's, with the Finals being more impressive then Curry's.

As for the numbers against the Celtics , Curry was more efficient but Giannis had 3 more points, 2 more assists and pulled in an extra 2 possessions per game with offensive rebounds. Curry's statistically better but it's certainly close.

More important is how the Celtics defended the stars. Celtics played drop coverage on Curry for the first 4 games to focus on his teammates. Predictably Curry tore up that D. As soon as they switched their coverage in game 5 Curry was slowed but Wiggins was freed up and had a big game. Imagine how Giannis would do if Celtics didn't try to wall him off of the paint with help D.

I wouldn't call 2013 a Carry job so Curry has at most carried one bad team to the playoffs (if you consider that 2014 team bad)

This is supposed to be a knock on Curry ?.

Even the widely heralded as the best defense in the NBA Celtics who had shut down KD and Giannis and had the DPOY on their roster couldn’t handle Curry with single coverage, and when they adopted a different strategy he did what he does when double or triple teamed or his shot is not falling and facilitated team mates rather than chasing his own numbers regardless.

You can pick your poison with Curry but that is pretty much it, except if other quality scoring options are lacking and LeBron James or Kawhi Leonard have no requirement to defend their direct opponent and are available to double or triple him, then sure he can be stopped, he is a 6’2” PG.

Shut down Giannis?

33.9/14.7/7.1

I mean that's some kind of compliment.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Sure shut down was a poor choice of words. Stopped him from beating them is perhaps better.

[TheLand13]

Your interpretation of his logic is basically that closer parity proves stronger competition. That is a fallacy. You could have a very tight varsity league with many of its top teams of comparable strength but if you had them play the NBA team with the worst record they'd still probably be all worse. Of course the teams we're talking about are in the NBA and comparisons of teams from different time periods is mainly guessing and theorizing but the same principle applies.

Okay, but that doesn't disprove my point. If I have two sets of teams from different time frames, and one set is shown to have better stats across the board (and in this case using SRS as an example), I have every reason to believe that those teams were better. Of course you are very easily welcome to explaining why that's not the case, but the problem is that you haven't done that yet. You haven't given me any reason to believe that's not the case, or the other person for that matter. All you've done so far is say "you're wrong" and you've left it at that.

A more logical way of thinking is looking at commonalities and putting them in context. For example Chris Paul at his peak could not get to the finals in 2015 and the surrounding years. However, past his peak he finally brought a team to the finals. That's one point in favor of thinking the opposition in 2015 was stronger than in 2021. You can come up with reasons to explain this logical discrepancy—but you have to come up with reasons and you and everyone else as far as I can see haven't.

I just... what?

How does Chris Paul going to the Finals in 2021 prove that the competition in 2021 was weaker than the competition in 2015? We are talking about the competition GIANNIS faced that season, not Paul. They are in completely different conferences, with different teams going through different circumstances. And keep in mind, that was a season where a lot of people felt the East had stronger playoff teams than the West did (a belief that I actually agree). And I want to make sure I mark this part as a point of reference when you inevitably claim that I don't come up with reasons. This one reason alone kills your argument, and that required almost no effort on my part.

Oh but there's more.

There are a multitude of factors that go into how someone can manage to lead a team to the finals one season but not the other. Going by your logic, the reason the Dallas Mavericks didn't make the finals in 2007 (where they lost in the first round to the 8th seeded Warriors) but won it in 2011 (which was when they swept the defending champion Lakers, beat the incredibly talented and young OKC team with Durant/Westbrook/Harden/Ibaka and beat the Miami Heat with their new big three) was because they faced weaker competition. And don't even act like that's the only instance. I can easily come up with over a dozen more if I wanted to.

In the case of 2021, Paul experienced a combination of factors, some of which involved luck (Davis and Murray getting injured), and the rest of which was the result of Paul being on one of the best teams of his career. A lot of people tend to forget this, but the 2021 Suns were a really good team, and same with the 2022 one (obviously). It was the best coach Paul had ever played for, with a really great supporting cast that fit his style of play almost to perfection and they were a deep team as well. They ran into the team that had Giannis on it unfortunately, and they couldn't stop him (too bad the Cavaliers couldn't say the same thing about Curry in 2015).

We have just seen Curry lead a team that beat MVP and First Team All-NBA Jokic, the team with the second best record in the league and Second Team All-NBA Ja Morant, First Team All-NBA Doncic, and the team that swept KD and beat Giannis with First Team All-NBA Tatum. Giannis hasn't shown that kind of dominance.

We aren't talking about that level of dominance. That's not what this debate is about. We are talking about the runs Curry and Giannis had in 2015 and 2021 respectively. You said the one Curry had in 2015 was better. Talking about what Curry did in 2022, which is seven years later in case you can't count, doesn't prove that theory to be correct. If anything, it just continues to prove my point.

But okay. Let's talk about this season for a moment actually using context, something you never like to do. Curry beat the team with the MVP on it who was missing two of his best teammates (and managed to still get a win, something he couldn't do against the Suns last season), beat the Grizzlies who were without Ja Morant (the second team all NBA player that you didn't hesitate to mention) for the final two games of the series, avoided the best team in the NBA because they choked against the Mavericks who had no business being that far in the playoffs (the team that you mentioned had first team all NBA Doncic, but who also had arguably a worse supporting cast than LeBron did in his first stint with Cleveland), and then faced the Boston Celtics, where he was incredibly dominant and could not be stopped despite this being, without question, the best defensive team he had ever faced in the finals.

And keep in mind, before that finals series, there was nothing noteworthy or special about Curry's performance in the playoffs leading up to it. He has had far better playoff series performances in the past leading up to the 2022 Finals, which were without question the best playoff series performance he's ever had. Hell, Klay Thompson, a guy a lot of people pointed out wasn't back to his old self in the 2022 post season, led the Warriors in scoring in three of the six games in that playoff series against the Grizzlies. You say Giannis has never been that dominant? Then I strongly recommend you brush up on your NBA history, because you're in for a pretty rude awakening if you think GIannis has never been that good in the playoffs before.

You've provided a wall of text that seems to not understand anything previously stated. Let me put part of the argument simply and tell me where you disagree:

2021 Suns < 2022 Suns < 2022 Mavericks < 2022 Warriors

Do you disagree with anything there?

Next:

2021 Suns < 2015 Clippers

Do you disagree with that? Why?

Now:

2015 Warriors vs. 2022 Warriors

Which version of the team was stronger?

Same question:

2015 Cavaliers vs. 2021 Nets

Lol.

I’m going to humor this post by answering it, even though it’s another obvious attempt by you to ignore the points that prove you wrong.

First comparison:

I disagree with pretty much all of it apart from the 2022 Suns being superior to the 2021 version. Yes, the Mavericks beat the Suns. That doesn’t mean Mavericks>Suns. I would still pick the 2022 Suns over the 2022 Mavericks. It would be like me saying the 2016 Cavaliers were better than the 2016 Warriors. Yeah sure the Cavs won that series, but by no means are they the better team. And this goes into the next team as well. I would still say that the 2022 Suns are superior to the 2022 Warriors.

Second comparison:

Yes, I disagree with that. The 2021 Suns are a deeper team and better coached. And you can even argue that they had a better starting five.

Third comparison:

2015 warriors were the stronger team but it’s pretty close.

Fourth comparison: it doesn’t matter because neither team was at full strength, and the Warriors didn’t face the Nets that season, nor did they make it to the finals. So what do the 2021 Nets have to do with this?

Now please do tell, what does this have to do with what we’re talking about?

[WarriorGM]

You've provided a wall of text that seems to not understand anything previously stated. Let me put part of the argument simply and tell me where you disagree:

2021 Suns < 2022 Suns < 2022 Mavericks < 2022 Warriors

Do you disagree with anything there?

Next:

2021 Suns < 2015 Clippers

Do you disagree with that? Why?

Now:

2015 Warriors vs. 2022 Warriors

Which version of the team was stronger?

Same question:

2015 Cavaliers vs. 2021 Nets

Lol.

I’m going to humor this post by answering it, even though it’s another obvious attempt by you to ignore the points that prove you wrong.

First comparison:

I disagree with pretty much all of it apart from the 2022 Suns being superior to the 2021 version. Yes, the Mavericks beat the Suns. That doesn’t mean Mavericks>Suns. I would still pick the 2022 Suns over the 2022 Mavericks. It would be like me saying the 2016 Cavaliers were better than the 2016 Warriors. Yeah sure the Cavs won that series, but by no means are they the better team. And this goes into the next team as well. I would still say that the 2022 Suns are superior to the 2022 Warriors.

Second comparison:

Yes, I disagree with that. The 2021 Suns are a deeper team and better coached. And you can even argue that they had a better starting five.

Third comparison:

2015 warriors were the stronger team but it’s pretty close.

Fourth comparison: it doesn’t matter because neither team was at full strength, and the Warriors didn’t face the Nets that season, nor did they make it to the finals. So what do the 2021 Nets have to do with this?

Now please do tell, what does this have to do with what we’re talking about?

None of the previous points by others have proved me wrong. What they've proved is that they have to use one stat among many that is not designed to be used in comparisons of different years to make their point and even then using that same measure in the way described would still show Curry is currently better.

As for the exercise I presented, you disagree with the 2022 Mavericks beating the 2022 Suns as proving the Mavericks were better. I can understand certain situations where a defeat may not necessarily prove one team was really better than another but I'd expect a reasonable explanation for it. This is especially the case with a team like the Suns which haven't actually proven anything. In the case of that 2022 series between the Suns and Mavericks, I don't see a reasonable explanation and accept at face value the result. To not do so is basically to say your opinion trumps reality. A cavalier disregard for such results is not objective. If you are unwilling to accept objective results than you can have any opinion you want, a discussion with you is pointless.

On the second comparison between the 2021 Suns and the 2015 Clippers, I bring it up because it is one of the points of commonality that gives us some hold upon which to make a comparison. Chris Paul was a major player in both teams. But other things being equal it is reasonable to believe that a 29 year old Chris Paul is a better player than 35 year old Chris Paul. The 2015 Clippers had more decorated and experienced players and had made the playoffs multiple times. In comparison is a mostly young 2021 Suns team that hadn't made a playoffs previously. You argue the Suns were better coached and had a better starting five. Those are mainly assertions with not much support. Monty Williams may have won Coach of the Year in 2022 but in the loss against the Mavericks one major explanation given by analysts is that he was outcoached by Jason Kidd.

On the third comparison, since you believe the 2015 Warriors were better than the 2022 Warriors then results of the 2022 Warriors can be used as comparable data.

On the fourth comparison, one of the questions that have been brought up is whether the 2015 Warriors faced better or worse opposition than the 2021 Bucks. Since the 2015 Cavaliers and 2021 Nets were opponents of the Warriors and Bucks respectively, it would seem to be a very pertinent comparison.

My quick take:

2022 Warriors > 2022 Celtics > 2022 Bucks
2022 Warriors > 2022 Mavericks > 2022 Suns > 2021 Suns

If you believe 2015 Warriors > 2022 Warriors then
2015 Warriors > 2022 Mavericks > 2022 Suns > 2021 Suns

2015 Warriors > 2015 Rockets > 2015 Clippers > 2021 Suns
2015 Warriors > 2015 Cavaliers > 2021 Nets

You disagree with 2022 Mavericks > 2022 Suns because well you insist.

You disagree with 2015 Clippers > 2021 Suns because you think the rest of the Suns more than make up for Chris Paul's age despite it being their first time in the playoffs for most of the other key players.

Did I miss anything? Is anything unclear?

[TheLand13]

None of the previous points by others have proved me wrong.

Yes they have.

What they've proved is that they have to use one stat among many that is not designed to be used in comparisons of different years to make their point and even then using that same measure in the way described would still show Curry is currently better.

First off no it wouldn't. Second, that's one more stat than anything you have shown so far.

As for the exercise I presented, you disagree with the 2022 Mavericks beating the 2022 Suns as proving the Mavericks were better. I can understand certain situations where a defeat may not necessarily prove one team was really better than another but I'd expect a reasonable explanation for it. This is especially the case with a team like the Suns which haven't actually proven anything. In the case of that 2022 series between the Suns and Mavericks, I don't see a reasonable explanation and accept at face value the result. To not do so is basically to say your opinion trumps reality. A cavalier disregard for such results is not objective. If you are unwilling to accept objective results than you can have any opinion you want, a discussion with you is pointless.

The Suns are a better coached team with a better starting five and a better bench unit. It's not even close. Every major statistic across the board points to the Suns being the superior team. Nine times out of ten, you replay that series back and Phoenix is winning it. They choked when it mattered most. I have no reason, based on everything I've seen, to believe that the Mavericks are ultimately the better team.

Thinking otherwise because one team managed to win is an incredibly lazy take and it doesn't deserve to be taken seriously. I don't even know why I'm giving it the light of day at this point.

On the second comparison between the 2021 Suns and the 2015 Clippers, I bring it up because it is one of the points of commonality that gives us some hold upon which to make a comparison. Chris Paul was a major player in both teams. But other things being equal it is reasonable to believe that a 29 year old Chris Paul is a better player than 35 year old Chris Paul. The 2015 Clippers had more decorated and experienced players and had made the playoffs multiple times. In comparison is a mostly young 2021 Suns team that hadn't made a playoffs previously. You argue the Suns were better coached and had a better starting five. Those are mainly assertions with not much support.

It doesn't matter if my assertions don't have much support. You currently have nothing to suggest that my opinion on the matter is wrong. This Suns team fits Paul's skillset a lot better than the Clippers did and I feel that they were a better constructed team from top to bottom. If you don't agree, explain why.

Monty Williams may have won Coach of the Year in 2022 but in the loss against the Mavericks one major explanation given by analysts is that he was outcoached by Jason Kidd.

This style of arguing by you is exactly why this site doesn't take you seriously. What does Jason Kidd have to do with this discussion? We are talking about, in this case anyways, Monty Williams vs Doc Rivers. You are bringing up Jason Kidd in an attempt to discredit Monty, and that's simply not how it works. A lot of people think David Blatt outcoached Steve Kerr in 2015... that doesn't mean Steve Kerr is suddenly an awful coach, especially when you consider the fact that you're comparing him to one of the best basketball minds in the world. Speaking of, in this case, you're comparing him (Monty) to a guy who has received an awful lot of criticism throughout his career from both players, coaches, and media pundits for his style of coaching and the decisions he's made. Monty on the other hand is consistently considered one of the best coaches in the NBA, and has a proven track record for bringing far more out of his players than Doc Rivers ever did. It's really not even close.

On the fourth comparison, one of the questions that have been brought up is whether the 2015 Warriors faced better or worse opposition than the 2021 Bucks. Since the 2015 Cavaliers and 2021 Nets were opponents of the Warriors and Bucks respectively, it would seem to be a very pertinent comparison.

No, it wouldn't. The 2015 Cavaliers were the NBA Finals opponents of the Warriors. The Nets weren't the finals opponents for the Bucks. The Suns were. This comparison would have made a lot more sense if you had asked me who was superior between them and the Cavaliers.

And the thing is, I already know why you didn't: because you and I both know that the Suns were superior to the 2015 Cavaliers. So in the case where you can actually argue a team that the Cavaliers are better than, you think that somehow supports your argument. Switching goal posts doesn't help you here. You need to remain consistent and use the points that have to do with the topic we are discussing.

2015 Warriors > 2015 Rockets > 2015 Clippers > 2021 Suns
2015 Warriors > 2015 Cavaliers > 2021 Nets

At this point I don't even know why I'm continuing to bother with you. I feel like I just hit my head against the wall multiple times after reading this.

You disagree with 2022 Mavericks > 2022 Suns because well you insist.

The majority of this site would disagree with that. You are in a very vast minority of people who actually think the 2022 Mavericks are a legitimately better team top to bottom than the Suns are.

You disagree with 2015 Clippers > 2021 Suns because you think the rest of the Suns more than make up for Chris Paul's age despite it being their first time in the playoffs for most of the other key players.

Did I miss anything? Is anything unclear?

Yes, you've missed a lot actually, like the vast majority of the points that I've made that you conveniently chose to ignore because you know you have no argument for them. Either acknowledge them or admit that you know that I'm right.

[michaelm]

None of the previous points by others have proved me wrong.

Yes they have.

What they've proved is that they have to use one stat among many that is not designed to be used in comparisons of different years to make their point and even then using that same measure in the way described would still show Curry is currently better.

First off no it wouldn't. Second, that's one more stat than anything you have shown so far.

As for the exercise I presented, you disagree with the 2022 Mavericks beating the 2022 Suns as proving the Mavericks were better. I can understand certain situations where a defeat may not necessarily prove one team was really better than another but I'd expect a reasonable explanation for it. This is especially the case with a team like the Suns which haven't actually proven anything. In the case of that 2022 series between the Suns and Mavericks, I don't see a reasonable explanation and accept at face value the result. To not do so is basically to say your opinion trumps reality. A cavalier disregard for such results is not objective. If you are unwilling to accept objective results than you can have any opinion you want, a discussion with you is pointless.

The Suns are a better coached team with a better starting five and a better bench unit. It's not even close. Every major statistic across the board points to the Suns being the superior team. Nine times out of ten, you replay that series back and Phoenix is winning it. They choked when it mattered most. I have no reason, based on everything I've seen, to believe that the Mavericks are ultimately the better team.

Thinking otherwise because one team managed to win is an incredibly lazy take and it doesn't deserve to be taken seriously. I don't even know why I'm giving it the light of day at this point.

On the second comparison between the 2021 Suns and the 2015 Clippers, I bring it up because it is one of the points of commonality that gives us some hold upon which to make a comparison. Chris Paul was a major player in both teams. But other things being equal it is reasonable to believe that a 29 year old Chris Paul is a better player than 35 year old Chris Paul. The 2015 Clippers had more decorated and experienced players and had made the playoffs multiple times. In comparison is a mostly young 2021 Suns team that hadn't made a playoffs previously. You argue the Suns were better coached and had a better starting five. Those are mainly assertions with not much support.

It doesn't matter if my assertions don't have much support. You currently have nothing to suggest that my opinion on the matter is wrong. This Suns team fits Paul's skillset a lot better than the Clippers did and I feel that they were a better constructed team from top to bottom. If you don't agree, explain why.

Monty Williams may have won Coach of the Year in 2022 but in the loss against the Mavericks one major explanation given by analysts is that he was outcoached by Jason Kidd.

This style of arguing by you is exactly why this site doesn't take you seriously. What does Jason Kidd have to do with this discussion? We are talking about, in this case anyways, Monty Williams vs Doc Rivers. You are bringing up Jason Kidd in an attempt to discredit Monty, and that's simply not how it works. A lot of people think David Blatt outcoached Steve Kerr in 2015... that doesn't mean Steve Kerr is suddenly an awful coach, especially when you consider the fact that you're comparing him to one of the best basketball minds in the world. Speaking of, in this case, you're comparing him (Monty) to a guy who has received an awful lot of criticism throughout his career from both players, coaches, and media pundits for his style of coaching and the decisions he's made. Monty on the other hand is consistently considered one of the best coaches in the NBA, and has a proven track record for bringing far more out of his players than Doc Rivers ever did. It's really not even close.

On the fourth comparison, one of the questions that have been brought up is whether the 2015 Warriors faced better or worse opposition than the 2021 Bucks. Since the 2015 Cavaliers and 2021 Nets were opponents of the Warriors and Bucks respectively, it would seem to be a very pertinent comparison.

No, it wouldn't. The 2015 Cavaliers were the NBA Finals opponents of the Warriors. The Nets weren't the finals opponents for the Bucks. The Suns were. This comparison would have made a lot more sense if you had asked me who was superior between them and the Cavaliers.

And the thing is, I already know why you didn't: because you and I both know that the Suns were superior to the 2015 Cavaliers. So in the case where you can actually argue a team that the Cavaliers are better than, you think that somehow supports your argument. Switching goal posts doesn't help you here. You need to remain consistent and use the points that have to do with the topic we are discussing.

2015 Warriors > 2015 Rockets > 2015 Clippers > 2021 Suns
2015 Warriors > 2015 Cavaliers > 2021 Nets

At this point I don't even know why I'm continuing to bother with you. I feel like I just hit my head against the wall multiple times after reading this.

You disagree with 2022 Mavericks > 2022 Suns because well you insist.

The majority of this site would disagree with that. You are in a very vast minority of people who actually think the 2022 Mavericks are a legitimately better team top to bottom than the Suns are.

You disagree with 2015 Clippers > 2021 Suns because you think the rest of the Suns more than make up for Chris Paul's age despite it being their first time in the playoffs for most of the other key players.

Did I miss anything? Is anything unclear?

Yes, you've missed a lot actually, like the vast majority of the points that I've made that you conveniently chose to ignore because you know you have no argument for them. Either acknowledge them or admit that you know that I'm right.

Giannis himself has just said the last man standing is the best player ie Curry last season. Curry has responded that the man the previous season was Giannis.

I wouldn’t put either player ahead of the other myself, but even as a Curry fanboy recognise there is a good argument for Giannis. Not so sure about the other players ESPN is ranking ahead of Curry.

[dhsilv2]

ESPN TOP100 year by year

2015 Lebron Davis Durant
2016 Lebron Curry Durant
2017 Lebron Durant Kawhi
2018 Lebron Curry Harden
2019 Giannis Kawhi Lebron
2020 Lebron Davis Giannis
2021 Durant Giannis Lebron
2022 Giannis Jokic Doncic

I could only laugh at these ESPN clowns. Curry won 4 champs in 8 years and they still don't get it.

Interesting also that Giannis has made their top three four times since 2019 while Curry didnt appear once but even in that time frame Curry has made more finals appearances. Indeed Curry has made six finals appearances since 2015 which is more than anyone else on that list. His 4 championships in that time is equal or more than any two of the others won during this period combined.

They are either extremely dumb or deliberately trying to marginalize Curry.

Giannis finished 1st, 1st, 4th, 3rd in MVP voting those 4 years. Seems they got him right. Being lower on an aging Curry who's had health issues doesn't seem to be a crazy thing either when forecasting.

[WarriorGM]

ESPN TOP100 year by year

2015 Lebron Davis Durant
2016 Lebron Curry Durant
2017 Lebron Durant Kawhi
2018 Lebron Curry Harden
2019 Giannis Kawhi Lebron
2020 Lebron Davis Giannis
2021 Durant Giannis Lebron
2022 Giannis Jokic Doncic

I could only laugh at these ESPN clowns. Curry won 4 champs in 8 years and they still don't get it.

Interesting also that Giannis has made their top three four times since 2019 while Curry didnt appear once but even in that time frame Curry has made more finals appearances. Indeed Curry has made six finals appearances since 2015 which is more than anyone else on that list. His 4 championships in that time is equal or more than any two of the others won during this period combined.

They are either extremely dumb or deliberately trying to marginalize Curry.

Giannis finished 1st, 1st, 4th, 3rd in MVP voting those 4 years. Seems they got him right. Being lower on an aging Curry who's had health issues doesn't seem to be a crazy thing either when forecasting.

MVP is determined by media voters. The ESPN list is determined by media voters. Media's highest priority is to sell their product not to provide an accurate historical record.

[dhsilv2]

Interesting also that Giannis has made their top three four times since 2019 while Curry didnt appear once but even in that time frame Curry has made more finals appearances. Indeed Curry has made six finals appearances since 2015 which is more than anyone else on that list. His 4 championships in that time is equal or more than any two of the others won during this period combined.

They are either extremely dumb or deliberately trying to marginalize Curry.

Giannis finished 1st, 1st, 4th, 3rd in MVP voting those 4 years. Seems they got him right. Being lower on an aging Curry who's had health issues doesn't seem to be a crazy thing either when forecasting.

MVP is determined by media voters. The ESPN list is determined by media voters. Media's highest priority is to sell their product not to provide an accurate historical record.

OK he was 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, and 2nd in VORP those 4 years too. Doesn't change he's been a top 4 player the last 4 years, hasn't had injuries, and is still under 30 after those 4 years. Giannis is one of the best players in NBA history and about as safe a bet as we've had to maintain it.

[Kobe187]

Kyrie, Butler, Zion too low.
Harden, Towns, Gobert too high.

[WarriorGM]

Giannis finished 1st, 1st, 4th, 3rd in MVP voting those 4 years. Seems they got him right. Being lower on an aging Curry who's had health issues doesn't seem to be a crazy thing either when forecasting.

MVP is determined by media voters. The ESPN list is determined by media voters. Media's highest priority is to sell their product not to provide an accurate historical record.

OK he was 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, and 2nd in VORP those 4 years too. Doesn't change he's been a top 4 player the last 4 years, hasn't had injuries, and is still under 30 after those 4 years. Giannis is one of the best players in NBA history and about as safe a bet as we've had to maintain it.

Is VORP associated with winning? Giannis right now is about where Curry was at the end of his 2016 season. Both with 2 MVPs and a ring. Giannis with more media awards but Curry with more impressive team wins records. I guess at the end of their careers we'll have a better idea of what predicts future championships.

[dhsilv2]

MVP is determined by media voters. The ESPN list is determined by media voters. Media's highest priority is to sell their product not to provide an accurate historical record.

OK he was 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, and 2nd in VORP those 4 years too. Doesn't change he's been a top 4 player the last 4 years, hasn't had injuries, and is still under 30 after those 4 years. Giannis is one of the best players in NBA history and about as safe a bet as we've had to maintain it.

Is VORP associated with winning? Giannis right now is about where Curry was at the end of his 2016 season. Both with 2 MVPs and a ring. Giannis with more media awards but Curry with more impressive team wins records. I guess at the end of their careers we'll have a better idea of what predicts future championships.

Yes VORP correlates with winning. And no, we don't need to see the rest of their careers. ESPN clearly was right with their selections of Giannis. If you'd picked a player that shouldn't be in the discussion each and every year listed for best player, you'd have some leg to stand on. But Giannis was in the debate for best player so you have zero leg to stand on.

Now some actual facts.

Curry's games played

2018 - 51
2019 - 69
2020 - 5
2021 - 63

So if you're forecasting Curry there's plenty of reason to have some level of trepidation on his health.

It would be wrong to not lower your ranking on Curry due to the uncertainty of his health. Lets say I think Curry is the 3rd best player in the world. I'd want to rank him 5-7 range due to health. Winning the playoffs last year all the more drives up the risk he'll get hurt this coming year.

[HEAT33]

Lebron should be 10-20 range

[WarriorGM]

OK he was 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, and 2nd in VORP those 4 years too. Doesn't change he's been a top 4 player the last 4 years, hasn't had injuries, and is still under 30 after those 4 years. Giannis is one of the best players in NBA history and about as safe a bet as we've had to maintain it.

Is VORP associated with winning? Giannis right now is about where Curry was at the end of his 2016 season. Both with 2 MVPs and a ring. Giannis with more media awards but Curry with more impressive team wins records. I guess at the end of their careers we'll have a better idea of what predicts future championships.

Yes VORP correlates with winning. And no, we don't need to see the rest of their careers. ESPN clearly was right with their selections of Giannis. If you'd picked a player that shouldn't be in the discussion each and every year listed for best player, you'd have some leg to stand on. But Giannis was in the debate for best player so you have zero leg to stand on.

Now some actual facts.

Curry's games played

2018 - 51
2019 - 69
2020 - 5
2021 - 63

So if you're forecasting Curry there's plenty of reason to have some level of trepidation on his health.

It would be wrong to not lower your ranking on Curry due to the uncertainty of his health. Lets say I think Curry is the 3rd best player in the world. I'd want to rank him 5-7 range due to health. Winning the playoffs last year all the more drives up the risk he'll get hurt this coming year.

Factoring in assumed health prematurely without a clear reason such as a chronic injury seems presumptuous for such a list. Shouldn't they just rank according to who is the best player assuming health? Why would Embiid rank ahead of Curry with his history of injuries? Looks to me like a smokescreen rationalization.

As it happened the prediction based on the above rationale returned an inferior result if going by the fact that Curry has been in more finals than Antetokounmpo or anyone else in the discussion in that time frame.

[jokeboy86]

Interesting also that Giannis has made their top three four times since 2019 while Curry didnt appear once but even in that time frame Curry has made more finals appearances. Indeed Curry has made six finals appearances since 2015 which is more than anyone else on that list. His 4 championships in that time is equal or more than any two of the others won during this period combined.

They are either extremely dumb or deliberately trying to marginalize Curry.

Giannis finished 1st, 1st, 4th, 3rd in MVP voting those 4 years. Seems they got him right. Being lower on an aging Curry who's had health issues doesn't seem to be a crazy thing either when forecasting.

MVP is determined by media voters. The ESPN list is determined by media voters. Media's highest priority is to sell their product not to provide an accurate historical record.

This makes no sense. If they wanted to sell their product why wouldn't they give it to either Lebron/Durant/Curry all the time. Giannis and Jokic aren't ratings draws or drive NBA media content. You honestly think the majority of media in this country wants to talk about Giannis/Jokic/Luka/Embiid over Curry, seriously? Curry is either the 2nd face of the league or the face and when he's playing and the Warriors are winning thats good for ratings and financially for the league. So why would ESPN highlight someone who gets less eyeballs and pageclicks over Curry?

[WarriorGM]

Giannis finished 1st, 1st, 4th, 3rd in MVP voting those 4 years. Seems they got him right. Being lower on an aging Curry who's had health issues doesn't seem to be a crazy thing either when forecasting.

MVP is determined by media voters. The ESPN list is determined by media voters. Media's highest priority is to sell their product not to provide an accurate historical record.

This makes no sense. If they wanted to sell their product why wouldn't they give it to either Lebron/Durant/Curry all the time. Giannis and Jokic aren't ratings draws or drive NBA media content. You honestly think the majority of media in this country wants to talk about Giannis/Jokic/Luka/Embiid over Curry, seriously? Curry is either the 2nd face of the league or the face and when he's playing and the Warriors are winning thats good for ratings and financially for the league. So why would ESPN highlight someone who gets less eyeballs and pageclicks over Curry?

Advertisers especially certain advertisers and other special interests like agents representing multiple stars in multiple sports. Much like how a shift to clean energy makes the most sense and is popular but entrenched interests have been slowing the transition.

[Statlanta]

2015- pre-Curry
2017: Curry should be top 3 no argument
2018: Superteam tax
2019: Superteam tax
2020: Superteam tax
2021: Injured
2022: Players with similar or worst casts than Curry

I don’t see that Curry has been rated wrongly by ESPN especially with his injury history and teammates. Especially when you got a guy like Harden who’s been treated unfairly by the media due to his style of play.