Isaiah Livers Appreciation Thread

[flow]

It's not about Diallo, it's going to be about Cade. If Diallo makes Cades job easier, he will find a spot. My argument is that Livers makes Cades job easier by being a three-point shooter, and a lob threat now that he's healthy.

Spacing and Vertical threat are the two most important aspects a teammate can bring for Cade.

Burks being hurt does offer an opportunity for Diallo though, so I hope he's ready.

It's about the team. Cade is the best player on the team and a star in the making, but it's always about the team. Stop deitizing Cade.

[FloridaMan78]

Burks is overrated on here. So is 3-point shooting. You need some, sure, but it's not the be-all-end-all. Can he score? is a more important question than can he shoot? .

We disagree on spacing. If you don’t think having 3-4 guys on the floor that refuse to take threes is a problem then there really isn’t anything else to say.

Diallo doesn't refuse to shoot 3's. He just doesn't make many. And your idea of floor-spacing is very elementary & one dimensional. How many guys do the Celtics have on the floor jacking 3's at any one time?

Of all teams you picked the Celtics? Actually you could pick any team and they’d be better than:
Hayes 2.5 attempts 26%
Diallo 1.6 attempts 27%

Pritchard 3.5 attempts 40%
White 4.3 attempts 30%

Literally every player on the Celtics roster in the rotation besides Robert Williams shot more threes at a better percentage than what our back up guards take and make. Yuck

Grant Williams 3.4 attempts 41%
Smart 5.1 attempts 31%
Tatum 8.6 attempts 35%
Brown 7 attempts 35%
Horford 3.8 attempts 33%

They jack the ish out of threes lol.

[FloridaMan78]

Hayes 2.5 attempts 27%
Diallo 1.6 attempts 26%
Livers 3.4 attempts 41%
Bagley 1.9 attempts 23%
Noel .1 attempts 0%

Our bench mob three stats

I will appreciate Isaiah Livers off the bench this year lol. Absolutely putrid.

[zeebneeb]

It's not about Diallo, it's going to be about Cade. If Diallo makes Cades job easier, he will find a spot. My argument is that Livers makes Cades job easier by being a three-point shooter, and a lob threat now that he's healthy.

Spacing and Vertical threat are the two most important aspects a teammate can bring for Cade.

Burks being hurt does offer an opportunity for Diallo though, so I hope he's ready.

It's about the team. Cade is the best player on the team and a star in the making, but it's always about the team. Stop deitizing Cade.

It's about Cade, and how the pieces fit around him. This is how the NBA works. Its not about making him a diety, its recognizing how the NBA works.

[tmorgan]

I just posted a thread on the T&T board trying to get Noel off the roster. Seems to me the right move, albeit one we’re unlikely to follow as it’ll hurt short term. Interested in the responses.

[flow]

It's not about Diallo, it's going to be about Cade. If Diallo makes Cades job easier, he will find a spot. My argument is that Livers makes Cades job easier by being a three-point shooter, and a lob threat now that he's healthy.

Spacing and Vertical threat are the two most important aspects a teammate can bring for Cade.

Burks being hurt does offer an opportunity for Diallo though, so I hope he's ready.

It's about the team. Cade is the best player on the team and a star in the making, but it's always about the team. Stop deitizing Cade.

It's about Cade, and how the pieces fit around him. This is how the NBA works. Its not about making him a diety, its recognizing how the NBA works.

Ok, I'll bite. For the sake of argument, it's about Cade and how pieces fit around him. Cade is an all-around lead guard. Tremendous basketball player. But he's not a deadly shooter and he's not explosive. The best fit for him is to diversify the pieces around him. Give him a well-rounded cast. Shooters, slashers and bangers. Including Diallo, there are two non-bigs on the team who can play above the rim and explode to it. Isaiah Livers is not the other one. Where you get the idea that Livers is a vertical "lob threat" (everybody drink) at the NBA level is beyond me. He's not a great athlete, even when healthy. He's not a sky-walker. He's not getting to the rim. He's a catch & shoot player. He's Reggie Bullock. (hopefully a rich man's Reggie Bullock). That's great, but we've got 3 of those already. Livers makes 4. By my count, Diallo's skill-set is more valuable to Cade than Livers'. He's also a more impactful defender.

[edmunder_prc]

Hayes 2.5 attempts 27%
Diallo 1.6 attempts 26%
Livers 3.4 attempts 41%
Bagley 1.9 attempts 23%
Noel .1 attempts 0%

Our bench mob three stats

I will appreciate Isaiah Livers off the bench this year lol. Absolutely putrid.

Where is Burks? He and Bojan will fight for our best shooters.

I still see a Cade/Burks/Diallo/Bojan/Stewart to have maybe the highest potential.

I like Bey, but he stunk at times. Poor shooting, bad defense, TOs from trying to drive. With Cade/Burks/Bojan and a possible Stewart 3, adding a top 10 athlete in the league as the SF is exciting. I mean fast break lobbing to him are free points. Steals are free points.

His defense is next level and guarded PFs last season. Diallo can guard 1-4.

Then a Hayes, Ivey, Bey, Livers, Bagley Bench? Haha

As a player Diallo has all-star upside with even a little bit better 3 point shooting. His shot looks amazing compared to Hayes, it just needs to go in a more.

[zeebneeb]

It's about the team. Cade is the best player on the team and a star in the making, but it's always about the team. Stop deitizing Cade.

It's about Cade, and how the pieces fit around him. This is how the NBA works. Its not about making him a diety, its recognizing how the NBA works.

Ok, I'll bite. For the sake of argument, it's about Cade and how pieces fit around him. Cade is an all-around lead guard. Tremendous player. But he's not a deadly shooter and he's not explosive. The best fit for him is to diversify the pieces around him. Shooters, slashers and bangers. Including Diallo, there are two non-bigs on the team who can play above the rim and explode to it. Isaiah Livers is not the other one. Where you get the idea that Livers is a vertical "lob threat" (everybody drink) at the NBA level is beyond me. He's not a great athlete, even when healthy. He's not a sky-walker. He's not getting to the rim. He's a catch & shoot player. He's Reggie Bullock. (hopefully a rich man's Reggie Bullock). That's great, but we've got 3 of those already. Livers makes 4. By my count, Diallo's skill-set is more valuable to Cade than Livers'. He's also a more impactful defender.

Everything you just said is an unknown at this time. He was recovering from an injury all season last year, but in summer league he showed some tremendous hops. He absolutely can be a lob threat in certain instances, like baseline cuts.

Livers has also shown, in limited time, that he can be a really good shooter. He also plays defense, but again, limited time and availability.

My point is, is that Livers upside possibilities are greater then Diallos, in my opinion.

My question to you is why are you infatuated with Diallo for? What is it about him, makes you believe that in two years, when this team is truly competing (hopefully)he is an important part of the team? It can't be his shooting. It can't be his free throw shooting. Can't be his passing acumen. Can't be his handles.

We'll see how it shakes out, but if someone asked me to place a bet on who would be moved first, Diallo, or Livers, my money goes to Diallo 10/10.

In the end, we will all start to find out next Tuesday. I don't see a place for Diallo, and expect him to be moved, or benched.

[FloridaMan78]

Hayes 2.5 attempts 27%
Diallo 1.6 attempts 26%
Livers 3.4 attempts 41%
Bagley 1.9 attempts 23%
Noel .1 attempts 0%

Our bench mob three stats

I will appreciate Isaiah Livers off the bench this year lol. Absolutely putrid.

Where is Burks? He and Bojan will fight for our best shooters.

I still see a Cade/Burks/Diallo/Bojan/Stewart to have maybe the highest potential.

I like Bey, but he stunk at times. Poor shooting, bad defense, TOs from trying to drive. With Cade/Burks/Bojan and a possible Stewart 3, adding a top 10 athlete in the league as the SF is exciting. I mean fast break lobbing to him are free points. Steals are free points.

His defense is next level and guarded PFs last season. Diallo can guard 1-4.

Then a Hayes, Ivey, Bey, Livers, Bagley Bench? Haha

As a player Diallo has all-star upside with even a little bit better 3 point shooting. His shot looks amazing compared to Hayes, it just needs to go in a more.

Burks is hurt. Don’t know when he’ll be back.

Diallo goes for steals, I wouldn’t say he plays good defense. I doubt he starts over Bey.

Diallo And Ivey in the starting lineup would be bad IMO.

[bstein14]

Diallo's defensive rating is better than Hayes.

Diallo allowed 50.6% FG% on 2 pointers and 40.3% on 3 pointers last season. Not great at defending the 3 ball for sure.

Hayes allowed 54.5% on 2 pointers and allowed 36.5% on 3 pointers. Hayes struggles fighting through screens and isn't as quick to stay in front of fast guards penetrating, but he does play more aggressively on the perimeter than Diallo.

Overall I'd say they are pretty close, with Diallo's athleticism helping him and Hayes' effort on that end being better than Diallo. Part of where they both are still lacking a bit is IQ wise.