Thoughts in General, Rumors, etc... 7.0

[pacers33granger]

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So, Indy is only bringing 18 to camp to focus on those guys. The cynic in me calls BS on that. Anyone know of other teams that went short in camp of roster spots throughout, in the recent past?

Yeah, smells fishy, especially when you can invite an Exhibit 10 player to camp for a mere $50K, and have the option to invite them to your GLeague team after camp. Skipping 2 spots saves them only $100K

Heck, there are a number of players who started their careers as an Exhibit 10, including Brissett, who is currently in the Pacer's rotation

Yup. And, they’ve already churned through a bunch of exhibit 10 signings that they’re just not bringing to camp? So, the $50k bonuses are still being paid (and they don’t even count against the cap).

Just weird, is all.

Having Galloway and James Johnson there also adds to the nonsensical aspect of this. Neither should make the team or even come close. If we're giving a spot to a useless vet at least give it to Lance. I understand the reasons not to but he's far better than those guys and neither of them are what I'd consider good vets to have around.

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[MoneyTalks41890]

Would Sacramento give Keegan Murray to Indiana for two unprotected firsts?

I just think Murray would fit perfectly in Indiana.
I'm not sure what else Indiana could throw in that Sacramento would want.

(If not, what about 2 plus a lotto protected first = 2.5 LoL)

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Mathurin+ seems like the most logical starting point.

[DoItALL9]

Would Sacramento give Keegan Murray to Indiana for two unprotected firsts?

I just think Murray would fit perfectly in Indiana.
I'm not sure what else Indiana could throw in that Sacramento would want.

(If not, what about 2 plus a lotto protected first = 2.5 LoL)

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Mathurin+ seems like the most logical starting point.

True

Yeah,
I forgot to say Indiana needs to retain Mathurin & Haliburton.

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[Scoot McGroot]

Yeah, smells fishy, especially when you can invite an Exhibit 10 player to camp for a mere $50K, and have the option to invite them to your GLeague team after camp. Skipping 2 spots saves them only $100K

Heck, there are a number of players who started their careers as an Exhibit 10, including Brissett, who is currently in the Pacer's rotation

Yup. And, they’ve already churned through a bunch of exhibit 10 signings that they’re just not bringing to camp? So, the $50k bonuses are still being paid (and they don’t even count against the cap).

Just weird, is all.

Having Galloway and James Johnson there also adds to the nonsensical aspect of this. Neither should make the team or even come close. If we're giving a spot to a useless vet at least give it to Lance. I understand the reasons not to but he's far better than those guys and neither of them are what I'd consider good vets to have around.

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Yeah. I get they want a vet on a partial or non guaranteed contract, which is where I guess Lance separated himself? Maybe Lance wouldn’t take a non guarantee? I’m getting James Johnson makes the roster on positional reasoning. But then, that means that Sirvydis gets the other 2 way, and the roster is complete, which seems antithetical to the refrain if “competition”.

It’s just weird.

[Scoot McGroot]

Would Sacramento give Keegan Murray to Indiana for two unprotected firsts?

I just think Murray would fit perfectly in Indiana.
I'm not sure what else Indiana could throw in that Sacramento would want.

(If not, what about 2 plus a lotto protected first = 2.5 LoL)

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Oh, I think Indy is likely to just ride out this season and keep building through the lotto for another 2-3 seasons. I don’t think Indy is going to see Hali, Mathurin, Duarte, Murray, Turner to be the type of roster to give up multiple lotto picks for and say “yeah, that’s the core roster to win a championship someday”.

[pacers33granger]

Yup. And, they’ve already churned through a bunch of exhibit 10 signings that they’re just not bringing to camp? So, the $50k bonuses are still being paid (and they don’t even count against the cap).

Just weird, is all.

Having Galloway and James Johnson there also adds to the nonsensical aspect of this. Neither should make the team or even come close. If we're giving a spot to a useless vet at least give it to Lance. I understand the reasons not to but he's far better than those guys and neither of them are what I'd consider good vets to have around.

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Yeah. I get they want a vet on a partial or non guaranteed contract, which is where I guess Lance separated himself? Maybe Lance wouldn’t take a non guarantee? I’m getting James Johnson makes the roster on positional reasoning. But then, that means that Sirvydis gets the other 2 way, and the roster is complete, which seems antithetical to the refrain if “competition”.

It’s just weird.

Yeah I've got the same thoughts unfortunately. I feel like there are better options out there for an end of bench vet than either of those guys even beyond Lance.

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[Scoot McGroot]

Having Galloway and James Johnson there also adds to the nonsensical aspect of this. Neither should make the team or even come close. If we're giving a spot to a useless vet at least give it to Lance. I understand the reasons not to but he's far better than those guys and neither of them are what I'd consider good vets to have around.

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Yeah. I get they want a vet on a partial or non guaranteed contract, which is where I guess Lance separated himself? Maybe Lance wouldn’t take a non guarantee? I’m getting James Johnson makes the roster on positional reasoning. But then, that means that Sirvydis gets the other 2 way, and the roster is complete, which seems antithetical to the refrain if “competition”.

It’s just weird.

Yeah I've got the same thoughts unfortunately. I feel like there are better options out there for an end of bench vet than either of those guys even beyond Lance.

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Sure. I think this is the Rasual Butler/Damien Wilkins type signing. Someone to play a good vet in the locker room, and teach some toughness. But otherwise, someone that knows they’re not going to play but every so often, and that will take a non guaranteed contract and get waived before the guarantee date midseason to clear a spot for trade or promotion of Kendall Brown, etc.

I’m guessing Lance felt like he should at least get a guaranteed vet minimum? Which, in Indy, I wouldn’t blame him. And he might get a contract after the trade deadline if any roster spots are opened up.

[DoItALL9]

Would Sacramento give Keegan Murray to Indiana for two unprotected firsts?

I just think Murray would fit perfectly in Indiana.
I'm not sure what else Indiana could throw in that Sacramento would want.

(If not, what about 2 plus a lotto protected first = 2.5 LoL)

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Oh, I think Indy is likely to just ride out this season and keep building through the lotto for another 2-3 seasons. I don’t think Indy is going to see Hali, Mathurin, Duarte, Murray, Turner to be the type of roster to give up multiple lotto picks for and say “yeah, that’s the core roster to win a championship someday”.

I wouldn't say that core wins it all necessarily. They would need other surrounding pieces but I see it being similar to the 2013 / 2014 core.

But hey I am probably way off on my projection

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[Troubadour]

Classic photo of a GM and a player at odds

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[Karmaloop]

Would Sacramento give Keegan Murray to Indiana for two unprotected firsts?

I just think Murray would fit perfectly in Indiana.
I'm not sure what else Indiana could throw in that Sacramento would want.

(If not, what about 2 plus a lotto protected first = 2.5 LoL

Pretty easily, no. Given how bad Indiana is projected, you have to assume the worst and that they're going to be picking first. Would you trade Victor Wembanyama for Keegan Murray?

[NYG]

It got shot down in a previous thread I created, but I still like Cam Reddish for Jae Crowder straight up.

Could the Pistons send Killian Hayes for Jae Crowder and add another vet?

[Scoot McGroot]

It got shot down in a previous thread I created, but I still like Cam Reddish for Jae Crowder straight up.

Could the Pistons send Killian Hayes for Jae Crowder and add another vet?

I don’t have a win now team like Phoenix interested in developing those two young players and their volatile and inconsistent production.

[NYG]

It got shot down in a previous thread I created, but I still like Cam Reddish for Jae Crowder straight up.

Could the Pistons send Killian Hayes for Jae Crowder and add another vet?

I don’t have a win now team like Phoenix interested in developing those two young players and their volatile and inconsistent production.

Could Turner and Ayton work? Would you trade Turner for expirings and 2 conditional picks?

[kobe_vs_jordan]

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[Colbinii]

It got shot down in a previous thread I created, but I still like Cam Reddish for Jae Crowder straight up.

Could the Pistons send Killian Hayes for Jae Crowder and add another vet?

I don’t have a win now team like Phoenix interested in developing those two young players and their volatile and inconsistent production.

Could Turner and Ayton work? Would you trade Turner for expirings and 2 conditional picks?

They may need to go big against the best team in the West--Your Minnesota Timberpups!

[Scoot McGroot]

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So, Bob Kravitz is he only guy reporting anything like his, and he’s a columnist that’s never done beat writing (outside of the Avalanche WAAAAY back when he lived in Denver), and was forced to try and cover the Pacers recently by the Athletic, or have his contract voided.

There might be some truth, or there might not be. Bob isn’t really great at covering basketball. His last stuff he broke on the Pacers was really broken by Shams, and the Athletic had Bob go to the team offices to ask a few questions to support the reporting.

[Scoot McGroot]

It got shot down in a previous thread I created, but I still like Cam Reddish for Jae Crowder straight up.

Could the Pistons send Killian Hayes for Jae Crowder and add another vet?

I don’t have a win now team like Phoenix interested in developing those two young players and their volatile and inconsistent production.

Could Turner and Ayton work? Would you trade Turner for expirings and 2 conditional picks?

Well, why 2 conditional picks from Phoenix when you could get an unprotected future first, a couple 2nds, and move off Buddy’s contract with the Lakers? Really depends on the conditions and whatnot.

But Myles would HAAAAAATE that and wouldn’t extend unless Ayton was moved first. He wants to clearly be the sole center wherever he plays.

[zimpy27]

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So, Bob Kravitz is he only guy reporting anything like his, and he’s a columnist that’s never done beat writing (outside of the Avalanche WAAAAY back when he lived in Denver), and was forced to try and cover the Pacers recently by the Athletic, or have his contract voided.

There might be some truth, or there might not be. Bob isn’t really great at covering basketball. His last stuff he broke on the Pacers was really broken by Shams, and the Athletic had Bob go to the team offices to ask a few questions to support the reporting.

I think Pacers and Lakers make a ton of sense as trade partners. I think they both know that.

Lakers will give up an FRP, Pacers want 2.

Right now it's working out what closes the gap. I think from the Lakers side, they could spend more picks if they identify a few things:
- if Davis is back to being fit enough to play the 4, no point in having Turner if Davis is as bad as he was last season at the 4.
- If the new team is close to contention and worth investing picks to push them over the edge.
- If a stretch 5 like Bryant is impactful and useful for the team, Turner is a better for of that.
- If Westbrook is still an awful for with this new team and system.

From the Pacers, I'm guessing the only reason they come down from their price is if they are just bluffing the Lakers in the first place and truly want to move Turner before he wins them too may games. Otherwise I can't really see pacers budging until maybe the deadline.

[DoItALL9]

If the season starts really poorly for Phoenix could LA trade Westbrook and picks for CP3?

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[HartfordWhalers]

At what point do we start getting concerned this Wolves sale falls apart? And how does that impact who is actually making decisions for them?

Yeah, sounds like ARod could fall apart. But is Lore able and willing to step up and pay the difference, for a higher percentage of ownership, of course?

Okay, I tried to do a bit of a dive on this. It is shallow and I would love if some of our experts way in as well.

But I am really struggling to see how you can actually get to a 4b figure found on sites like: https://exactnetworth.com/marc-lore-net-worth/
They look to be adding money that never went to him for starters.

As for what I see...

When looking into the actual details of when Jet was sold, you can find amazing numbers such as Lore made 4b on it. However, more common is Walmart paid 3.3b, which obviously is still a massive amount and plenty to do a 60-40 or whatever on 1.5b.

However, that ignores that Jet wasn't 100% Lore. The best I have seen,

With a 25 percent stake in Jet’s ownership according to Recode, Lore stands to make as much as $750 million in the deal.

https://digiday.com/marketing/walmarts-acquisition-jet-winners-losers/

Edit: Found some earlier sales, so before then

Marc Lore has sold an estimated value of $318.31M worth

.
https://www.benzinga.com/sec/insider-trades/wmt/marc-lore

He had 1,186,279 shares of Walmart as of his last filing before leaving Walmart in January 2021. If he still had those -- and there is absolutely no certainty nor even a good reason to think he does -- that would be worth 150-160m. I say that I expect he doesn't as he regularly sold shares before then as mentioned above, and as a serial entrepreneur would be very likely to want to invest elsewhere, including his joint fund with Arod where they each supposedly put in 50m.

The only other public disclosure I found came from being a 10% owner with 28,086,358 shares of Archer Aviation Inc. (ticker ACHR), currently trading at $3.56 per share for extremely close to 100m.
For those curious, he added over 1.1m shares in march so he either was supporting the price himself or wasn't showing signs of needing liquidity, granted we are talking about under 4m invested. Also, the value is pretty volatile, and that is over 10 days of trading volume, so not sure I would count this as liquid per see, but within the last year it also was over 100m higher.

Besides that you can dig back and look at the Diaper.com stuff way before then, and apparently there is a new utopian city where capitalism is changed.
https://nypost.com/2022/08/25/inside-billionaire-marc-lores-utopian-city-telosa/
https://www.sportscasting.com/timberwolves-owner-marc-lore-building-new-425-billion-city-barren-desert-america/

My guess is he cannot go it without Arod, and would be one of the poorer majority owners assuming he is indeed one, but I'm happy to hear from others who know more.

It is worth remembering that this has always been a strange transaction. Staged over many years, and set so that the existing minority partners cannot sue and get the same price being paid now for the team -- including a lawsuit over that. So, I would watch it close and my knee jerk is a third partner is added?

For those wondering about this still, unless I'm making some user errors here Lore is *not* listed by Forbes as worth 1b or more, least of all that 4b number.

https://www.forbes.com/billionaires/

With a majority stake in the Suns now up for grabs, I think the market to be a minority owner to Lore has to have shrunk from a market that already didn't seem to be there, and I don't have the confidence he can simply do it himself I see on Minnesota's board for instance. But maybe he can still? 3 months left on that second option and it looks pretty fascinating to me.