Greatest Peaks Project (2022): #34 - 2002-03 Tracy McGrady

[falcolombardi]

Still no love for Baylor?

I would love to consider baylor, but i am not familiar enough with him and i really dont havw enough time to watch footage of every player i am unknowledgrable about

I would love to read a baylor case tho if you have the time, he seems like a very interesting player

[AEnigma]

I do not see too much of an argument to take Baylor over Barry, right off the bat.

Actually, kind-of caught off guard by the Pettit > Barry votes, now that I think of it. Comparing Barry with true centres is one thing; tough to assess disparities there with how key they are to team defence. That was not Pettit’s role, though. So was he generating better/more offence than Barry? Was he impacting his team more? Was he as an individual giving his team a better shot at a title? I cannot see much to suggest that.

[70sFan]

I do not see too much of an argument to take Baylor over Barry, right off the bat.

Actually, kind-of caught off guard by the Pettit > Barry votes, now that I think of it. Comparing Barry with true centres is one thing; tough to assess disparities there with how key they are to team defence. That was not Pettit’s role, though. So was he generating better/more offence than Barry? Was he impacting his team more? Was he as an individual giving his team a better shot at a title? I cannot see much to suggest that.

Well, Pettit was a clearly better scorer in my evaluation and he pressured defenses more with it. He also had some off-ball value due to the combination of shooting, movement and offensive rebounding. Defense is tougher to evaluate with Pettit and this is where our evaluation can vary significantly.

Barry is clearly a better passer and to be honest, I forgot to include him here. I do think he is a very strong candidate at this point and most people underrate his offensive game because of mediocre raw efficiency numbers. Still, I think that Pettit is at least on comparable level to Rick and I don't find it impossible to argue for Bob.

[AEnigma]

I do not see too much of an argument to take Baylor over Barry, right off the bat.

Actually, kind-of caught off guard by the Pettit > Barry votes, now that I think of it. Comparing Barry with true centres is one thing; tough to assess disparities there with how key they are to team defence. That was not Pettit’s role, though. So was he generating better/more offence than Barry? Was he impacting his team more? Was he as an individual giving his team a better shot at a title? I cannot see much to suggest that.

Well, Pettit was a clearly better scorer in my evaluation and he pressured defenses more with it. He also had some off-ball value due to the combination of shooting, movement and offensive rebounding. Defense is tougher to evaluate with Pettit and this is where our evaluation can vary significantly.

Would that not all also apply as well or better to the other Bobs?

[70sFan]

I do not see too much of an argument to take Baylor over Barry, right off the bat.

Actually, kind-of caught off guard by the Pettit > Barry votes, now that I think of it. Comparing Barry with true centres is one thing; tough to assess disparities there with how key they are to team defence. That was not Pettit’s role, though. So was he generating better/more offence than Barry? Was he impacting his team more? Was he as an individual giving his team a better shot at a title? I cannot see much to suggest that.

Well, Pettit was a clearly better scorer in my evaluation and he pressured defenses more with it. He also had some off-ball value due to the combination of shooting, movement and offensive rebounding. Defense is tougher to evaluate with Pettit and this is where our evaluation can vary significantly.

Would that not all also apply as well or better to the other Bobs?

Well, I still have a lot of concerns to evaluate Lanier properly, his overall ranking (all-time and peak-wise) ranges for me for like 25 possible spots (from as high as mid 30s to top 60). I just wish we had more 1974-77 Pistons games to get a clearer picture of him. I also haven't done a deep dive on him yet, unlike most top tier centers.

With McAdoo, I am concerned about his turnover problems and his scoring efficiency going down in the playoffs. Pettit mostly played against stellar competition in postseason and he usually held up reasonably well. He was just more physical than McAdoo, who relied a bit too much on his contested jumpshot attempts for my taste.

[AEnigma]

Fair. That probably undersells McAdoo’s sheer scoring rate, but I am not much of a fan of McAdoo either so not really going to push the comparison.

[70sFan]

Fair. That probably undersells McAdoo’s sheer scoring rate, but I am not much of a fan of McAdoo either so not really going to push the comparison.

Care to go a bit longer on Baylor vs Barry? I also have them reasonably close for peaks (Barry is clearly higher all-time to me though).

[AEnigma]

Kind-of like with Pettit versus Barry, I think the passing disparity is massive. Also would give Barry a comfortable advantage in his ability to fit with guys like West and Wilt (imo West and prime Barry would have been much better equipped to push for titles). Abstract impact indicators are a fair bit stronger for Barry. Obviously Barry led a title team, and although I do not think that particular run is worth going wild over, tough for me to imagine Baylor doing the same because of Baylor’s lowered ability to create strong looks for teammates. If Baylor has a defensive advantage — not sure he does, but he at least has an impressive edge in rebounding — I do not really see it making up for Barry’s superior offball movement, shooting, and playmaking.

Era relative analysis also does not help Baylor out too much; you can at least kind-of argue Barry was the “best” player in 1975, with Kareem missing time and Erving having a mild down year, but Baylor’s ceiling was pretty much only ever maybe third to fifth, with absolutely zero conceivable claim to a top two spot. Even Pettit has a #2, maybe an injury induced #1, and you could easily argue both he and Barry figured out how to adjust to improving leagues better than Baylor did once Baylor’s athleticism advantage started slipping.

[LA Bird]

Here are the results for round 34

Winner: 03 McGrady

There were 7 voters in this round: Ron Swanson, AEnigma, Samurai, trelos6, falcolombardi, trex_8063, 70sFan

A total of 33 seasons received at least 1 vote: 03 McGrady, 09 Howard, 11 Howard, 16 Green, 17 Westbrook, 20 Butler, 20 Doncic, 21 Doncic, 21 Embiid, 22 Butler, 22 Doncic, 22 Embiid, 57 Pettit, 58 Pettit, 59 Pettit, 60 Pettit, 61 Baylor, 62 Baylor, 62 Pettit, 63 Baylor, 63 Pettit, 69 Reed, 70 Reed, 72 Frazier, 75 Gilmore, 75 Gilmore 76 Gilmore, 94 Miller, 94 Pippen, 95 Miller, 95 Pippen, 96 Hardaway, 96 Pippen, 97 Hill

Top 10 seasons: 03 McGrady, 11 Howard, 21 Embiid, 22 Embiid, 96 Pippen, 59 Pettit, 58 Pettit, 94 Miller, 63 Pettit, 75 Gilmore

H2H record (1 season per player)
03 McGrady: 0.794 (27-7)
11 Howard: 0.581 (18-13)
21 Embiid: 0.567 (17-13)
96 Pippen: 0.440 (11-14)
59 Pettit: 0.423 (11-15)
94 Miller: 0.280 (7-18)
75 Gilmore: 0.280 (7-18)