Who wants the Hornets?

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Re: Who wants the Hornets? 

Post#21 » by jredsaz » Thu Oct 6, 2022 6:38 am

NYG wrote:
Karmaloop wrote:
NYG wrote:The Hornets look like a team that should just tank the year and build down to the studs around LaMelo.

Make your best offers...

PJ Washington
Terry Rozier
Kelly Oubre
Gordon Hayward

Which contending teams would have interest in those guys?


Rozier is probably the only one that might have a market for them. PJ Washington and Kelly Oubre aren't fetching much. Maybe a matching expiring contract and a SRP if you find a team that likes them. Hayward is going to be viewed as a bad contracts, and you'll either need to take back worse salary or give up assets in exchange for him.


Where is Terry Rozier a good fit?


I actually like Terry with the Suns but that extension probably prices them out especially with the ownership in flux.
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Re: Who wants the Hornets? 

Post#22 » by Wolveswin » Thu Oct 6, 2022 6:41 am

Not just because Green slapped Poole…

To Knicks: Green
=Thibs gets his defensive bull dog and more cap flexibility.

To Hornets: Randle + Baldwin (2022 1st) + Moody + at least 23 Dallas 1st via Knicks
=Randle can play hero ball and try to regain value outside NY, plus youth and pick.

To Warriors: Washington + Oubre Jr + Plumlee
=PJ can be PF of future, plus get expiring bench depth.
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Re: Who wants the Hornets? 

Post#23 » by Henesey » Thu Oct 6, 2022 9:24 am

Wolveswin wrote:Not just because Green slapped Poole…

To Knicks: Green
=Thibs gets his defensive bull dog and more cap flexibility.

To Hornets: Randle + Baldwin (2022 1st) + Moody + at least 23 Dallas 1st via Knicks
=Randle can play hero ball and try to regain value outside NY, plus youth and pick.

To Warriors: Washington + Oubre Jr + Plumlee
=PJ can be PF of future, plus get expiring bench depth.

That's not great for the warriors, they don't get much cap relief and give up two assets that I would value over anything they are getting in return plus they take Oubre Jr back after his poor run there in 21-22.
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Re: Who wants the Hornets? 

Post#24 » by BBallFreak » Thu Oct 6, 2022 9:30 am

facothomas22 wrote:Pj Washignton - I'm not sure. Maybe the Nuggets or Grizzles

Terry Rozier - Heat or Mavericks

Gordan Haywood - Maybe the Heat. The Knicks might be interested.

Miami fan, here. Ironic that the one guy Miami needs you don't have us interested in. The two guys we have no need for, you think we'd want.

Miami would push for Washington. We've been linked to him for awhile, now. Not sure how much we'd give, but we'd like to have him.
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Re: Who wants the Hornets? 

Post#25 » by Skybox » Thu Oct 6, 2022 11:25 am

What happened to CHA other than Bridges (terrible)? I think PJ might be among the most underrated players in the NBA and, maybe, he jumps into Bridges' void and has a career year. IF Hayward is healthy and contributing on a high level and Mark Williams plays well...they could be better this year than last...unless I'm missing some CHA news.

Also, as bad as the Bridges situation is, maybe he gets cleared (settles quickly and as quietly as possible given the optics), eats a suspension, gives the right interviews, says the right things (and means it)...maybe he's back sooner rather than later. Not rooting for him, I HATE the story, but reality is - he's not off the planet.
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Re: Who wants the Hornets? 

Post#26 » by Resistance » Thu Oct 6, 2022 12:24 pm

Skybox wrote:What happened to CHA other than Bridges (terrible)? I think PJ might be among the most underrated players in the NBA and, maybe, he jumps into Bridges' void and has a career year. IF Hayward is healthy and contributing on a high level and Mark Williams plays well...they could be better this year than last...unless I'm missing some CHA news.

Also, as bad as the Bridges situation is, maybe he gets cleared (settles quickly and as quietly as possible given the optics), eats a suspension, gives the right interviews, says the right things (and means it)...maybe he's back sooner rather than later. Not rooting for him, I HATE the story, but reality is - he's not off the planet.



Even if some of the things that you mentioned turn out well, what is the upside for Charlotte? Playin team that gets eliminated early?

Are you glad that Orlando went for a rebuild or do you wish they were still going fast on the treadmill to nowhere?
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Re: Who wants the Hornets? 

Post#27 » by Mavrelous » Thu Oct 6, 2022 12:56 pm

Hayward/TRoz for WB/Nunn/27 protected 1st, just get it over with.
Defense wins draft lotteries!
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Re: Who wants the Hornets? 

Post#28 » by LuessiT » Thu Oct 6, 2022 1:11 pm

babyjax13 wrote:
NYG wrote:
Karmaloop wrote:
Rozier is probably the only one that might have a market for them. PJ Washington and Kelly Oubre aren't fetching much. Maybe a matching expiring contract and a SRP if you find a team that likes them. Hayward is going to be viewed as a bad contracts, and you'll either need to take back worse salary or give up assets in exchange for him.


Where is Terry Rozier a good fit?


Anywhere with someone who runs point on offense but doesn't defend 1s.


I'd love to get Rozier on the Bucks but we don't have much to give up. Brook definitely would have to be filler and one of Hill/Allen.

In terms of value we have a couple seconds, a recent FRP and the 2029 FRP although I can't see that being traded without protections. Probably not that attractive package overall.
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Re: Who wants the Hornets? 

Post#29 » by _GH0ST_ » Thu Oct 6, 2022 2:09 pm

Crives wrote:
NYG wrote:Just throwing something out there...

Phoenix Suns get:
PJ Washington
Gordon Hayward

Charlotte Hornets get:
Duncan Robinson
Dario Saric
Landry Shamet
Nikola Jovic
Conditional 2023 Phoenix Suns First Round Draft Pick

Miami Heat get:
Jae Crowder
Torrey Craig


Hayward is injured again already. I think heat should be one’s sending a first here, not phx.

For Crowder, Jovic+ first round? So funny.
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Re: Who wants the Hornets? 

Post#30 » by Crives » Thu Oct 6, 2022 2:12 pm

_GH0ST_ wrote:
Crives wrote:
NYG wrote:Just throwing something out there...

Phoenix Suns get:
PJ Washington
Gordon Hayward

Charlotte Hornets get:
Duncan Robinson
Dario Saric
Landry Shamet
Nikola Jovic
Conditional 2023 Phoenix Suns First Round Draft Pick

Miami Heat get:
Jae Crowder
Torrey Craig


Hayward is injured again already. I think heat should be one’s sending a first here, not phx.

For Crowder, Jovic+ first round? So funny.


Dumping Robinson
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Re: Who wants the Hornets? 

Post#31 » by _GH0ST_ » Thu Oct 6, 2022 2:17 pm

Crives wrote:
_GH0ST_ wrote:
Crives wrote:
Hayward is injured again already. I think heat should be one’s sending a first here, not phx.

For Crowder, Jovic+ first round? So funny.


Dumping Robinson

Robinson's contract is not the first bad contract in NBA history. Getting rid of a very bad contract is worth the first round at most. Nikola Jovic is already equivalent to the first round selection. Giving another one is nonsense.
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Re: Who wants the Hornets? 

Post#32 » by Wolveswin » Thu Oct 6, 2022 2:52 pm

Henesey wrote:
Wolveswin wrote:Not just because Green slapped Poole…

To Knicks: Green
=Thibs gets his defensive bull dog and more cap flexibility.

To Hornets: Randle + Baldwin (2022 1st) + Moody + at least 23 Dallas 1st via Knicks
=Randle can play hero ball and try to regain value outside NY, plus youth and pick.

To Warriors: Washington + Oubre Jr + Plumlee
=PJ can be PF of future, plus get expiring bench depth.

That's not great for the warriors, they don't get much cap relief and give up two assets that I would value over anything they are getting in return plus they take Oubre Jr back after his poor run there in 21-22.

Just questioning your cap relief statement…

Trade results in 4M saved, which for Warriors multiplier is like 12M.

PJ is a RFA going on 2nd contract. That will be less to much less than Green and what he will demand and ultimatum Warriors for during negotiations.

Oubre and Plumlee are expiring deals who drop off when Wiggins, Poole, and PJ need to get paid.

Cap flexibility this provides in spades.
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Re: Who wants the Hornets? 

Post#33 » by ChettheJet » Thu Oct 6, 2022 3:02 pm

If CHA is moving merchandise at rock bottom prices to clear out inventory, or at least making some moves to free up playing time to look at potential

The Bulls would gladly send an expiring Coby White for PJ Washington. OK maybe you don't need an expiring combo guard who hasn't made himself indispensable but if you move Rozier than maybe White fills a need. He's also never been traded and that gives some guys a wake up call. If CHA doesn't see PJ becoming more than a solid bench contributor and they just as soon try something else then here it is.

For the Bulls, even with Lonzo out the have enough guards to be able to move one, Washington can play with DeRozan and if he looks good next to PWill or DJJ, that allows the Bulls to have DeRozan take some of the minutes behind Lavine at the 2.
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Re: Who wants the Hornets? 

Post#34 » by Skybox » Thu Oct 6, 2022 7:25 pm

Resistance wrote:
Skybox wrote:What happened to CHA other than Bridges (terrible)? I think PJ might be among the most underrated players in the NBA and, maybe, he jumps into Bridges' void and has a career year. IF Hayward is healthy and contributing on a high level and Mark Williams plays well...they could be better this year than last...unless I'm missing some CHA news.

Also, as bad as the Bridges situation is, maybe he gets cleared (settles quickly and as quietly as possible given the optics), eats a suspension, gives the right interviews, says the right things (and means it)...maybe he's back sooner rather than later. Not rooting for him, I HATE the story, but reality is - he's not off the planet.



Even if some of the things that you mentioned turn out well, what is the upside for Charlotte? Playin team that gets eliminated early?

Are you glad that Orlando went for a rebuild or do you wish they were still going fast on the treadmill to nowhere?


I never like getting rid of good players who are young just to get worse...There's an upward ascent. Some people disagree and say the only way to improve is to just blow it to pieces and bank on a 18 year old to save you. CHA has some good young players, primarily Melo. I think they manage cap, develop internally and make a big trade when it appears. Hayward will be a large expiring after this season (I think) and maybe Bridges will be back. I think the deep tank is overrated and trading picks for real players (generally from teams entering the tank) is underrated.
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Re: Who wants the Hornets? 

Post#35 » by HornetJail » Thu Oct 6, 2022 7:45 pm

Skybox wrote:What happened to CHA other than Bridges (terrible)? I think PJ might be among the most underrated players in the NBA and, maybe, he jumps into Bridges' void and has a career year. IF Hayward is healthy and contributing on a high level and Mark Williams plays well...they could be better this year than last...unless I'm missing some CHA news.

Also, as bad as the Bridges situation is, maybe he gets cleared (settles quickly and as quietly as possible given the optics), eats a suspension, gives the right interviews, says the right things (and means it)...maybe he's back sooner rather than later. Not rooting for him, I HATE the story, but reality is - he's not off the planet.

well, how much time do you have? :lol:

in short...

team gets blown out of play-in game for the second straight year, after winning 43 games.

Team hires Kenny Atkinson

Kenny Atkinson says nah never mind

Team scrambles to find another head coach. Has presumably offended Mike D'Antoni or something, and falls back to Steve Clifford, who they fired four years ago for simply not being a good enough coach to warrant ignoring player development.

Team trades the 13th pick for basically nothing (Denver's 1st in 2023 and a few 2nds), citing the inability to develop many young players at once, and $4M difference was about how much the team needed to duck the luxury tax if they signed Bridges and Martin.

Team drafts Mark Williams (probably a win!)

Bouknight injures hand before summer league and misses a whole offseason of development.

Miles Bridges accidentally posts a picture of himself with purple drank or whatever.

Miles Bridges gets arrested for domestic violence on the eve of free agency. Miles Bridges' wife posts the horrific pictures and videos of the result of Bridges' actions.

Miles Bridges spends the entire offseason awaiting court, something that has still not happened yet (and I'd guess doesn't happen for a while)

The team, in complete shock of what happened, proceeds to do absolutely nothing all summer instead of making moves to pick a direction.

Montrezl Harrell and Isaiah Thomas aren't brought back and this is no replacement.

Hornets go into training camp with no clear NBA talent at center (Williams and Jones are super raw, Plumlee and Richards proven to be terrible), one ball handler on the roster in LaMelo with no backup.

The team looks bad in preseason with 48 minutes of terrible center play, and the non-LaMelo minutes having no playmaker on the floor. Even with LaMelo on the floor, all the ball movement from Borrego's offense is gone under Clifford (too early to say for sure, but it's all we have, and it isn't pretty)

--

We may not be tanking as an organization, but there was zero attempt to put together an actual roster this summer. The combination of adjustment to life without Bridges, new coach, brutal schedule, and other teams improving, lead me to believe this team is winning between 10-15 of their first 41 games.

I do think the team sees what has transpired with the team and eventually tries to bring back Bridges if he's not facing significant jail time, but believe he won't play this season. Might be in his best interest to have the RFA roll over to next summer and have a market (if there is one)
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Re: Who wants the Hornets? 

Post#36 » by Rich4114 » Thu Oct 6, 2022 7:54 pm

In the spirit of not tanking and instead finding a viable running mate for LaMelo, what about Jordan Poole? Will GSW plan to sign him for what he wants given their tax/cap situation or might they be interested in moving him for something they can invest in down the road plus expirings? Not sure if there’s possible interest or a move there to be made but thought I’d ask here.
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Re: Who wants the Hornets? 

Post#37 » by Skybox » Thu Oct 6, 2022 8:05 pm

Skybox wrote:
Resistance wrote:
Skybox wrote:What happened to CHA other than Bridges (terrible)? I think PJ might be among the most underrated players in the NBA and, maybe, he jumps into Bridges' void and has a career year. IF Hayward is healthy and contributing on a high level and Mark Williams plays well...they could be better this year than last...unless I'm missing some CHA news.

Also, as bad as the Bridges situation is, maybe he gets cleared (settles quickly and as quietly as possible given the optics), eats a suspension, gives the right interviews, says the right things (and means it)...maybe he's back sooner rather than later. Not rooting for him, I HATE the story, but reality is - he's not off the planet.



Even if some of the things that you mentioned turn out well, what is the upside for Charlotte? Playin team that gets eliminated early?

Are you glad that Orlando went for a rebuild or do you wish they were still going fast on the treadmill to nowhere?


I never like getting rid of good players who are young just to get worse...There's an upward ascent. Some people disagree and say the only way to improve is to just blow it to pieces and bank on a 18 year old to save you. CHA has some good young players, primarily Melo. I think they manage cap, develop internally and make a big trade when it appears. Hayward will be a large expiring after this season (I think) and maybe Bridges will be back. I think the deep tank is overrated and trading picks for real players (generally from teams entering the tank) is underrated.


On second thought...blow it up. Tank for Victor. Orl will take Melo off your hands before he accidentally wins some games. Picks on the way.

Seriously, as soon as ORL turned to the tank, Clifford bailed. He's not that guy. He's about minimizing mistakes, gutting out wins, rolling with the veteran players who can contribute NOW. I was really surprised at the hiring. I think he's a great coach, but more of a middle-reliever than a development guy, IMO...doesn't seem like a Melo guy (D'Antoni might've been fun)
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Re: Who wants the Hornets? 

Post#38 » by Resistance » Thu Oct 6, 2022 8:30 pm

Skybox wrote:
Resistance wrote:
Skybox wrote:What happened to CHA other than Bridges (terrible)? I think PJ might be among the most underrated players in the NBA and, maybe, he jumps into Bridges' void and has a career year. IF Hayward is healthy and contributing on a high level and Mark Williams plays well...they could be better this year than last...unless I'm missing some CHA news.

Also, as bad as the Bridges situation is, maybe he gets cleared (settles quickly and as quietly as possible given the optics), eats a suspension, gives the right interviews, says the right things (and means it)...maybe he's back sooner rather than later. Not rooting for him, I HATE the story, but reality is - he's not off the planet.



Even if some of the things that you mentioned turn out well, what is the upside for Charlotte? Playin team that gets eliminated early?

Are you glad that Orlando went for a rebuild or do you wish they were still going fast on the treadmill to nowhere?


I never like getting rid of good players who are young just to get worse...There's an upward ascent. Some people disagree and say the only way to improve is to just blow it to pieces and bank on a 18 year old to save you. CHA has some good young players, primarily Melo. I think they manage cap, develop internally and make a big trade when it appears. Hayward will be a large expiring after this season (I think) and maybe Bridges will be back. I think the deep tank is overrated and trading picks for real players (generally from teams entering the tank) is underrated.


They have a First Round pick incoming from Denver and owe a First Round pick to Atlanta. So not really blessed with extra picks if there is a bidding war for a star player made available for trade.

Future Traded Pick Details

2023 first round draft pick from Denver
Denver's 1st round pick to Charlotte protected for selections 1-14 in 2023, 1-14 in 2024 and 1-14 in 2025; if Denver has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Charlotte by 2025, then Denver will instead convey its 2025 2nd round pick and 2026 2nd round pick to Charlotte (via Oklahoma City to New York) [Denver-Milwaukee-New Orleans-Oklahoma City, 11/23/2020; New York-Oklahoma City, 6/23/2022; Charlotte-New York, 6/23/2022]


2023 first round draft pick to San Antonio
Charlotte's 1st round pick to San Antonio protected for selections 1-16 in 2023, 1-14 in 2024 and 1-14 in 2025; if Charlotte has not conveyed a 1st round pick to San Antonio by 2025, then Charlotte will instead convey its 2026 2nd round pick and 2027 2nd round draft pick to San Antonio (via New York to Atlanta) [Charlotte-New York, 7/30/2021; Atlanta-New York, 1/13/2022; Atlanta-San Antonio, 6/30/2022]


Charlotte -- Indiana Boxscore

Kai Jones, Bouknight and Mark Williams come across as projects.

Gordon Hayward -- DND - Injury/Illness


Hornets’ Gordon Hayward already dealing with injury in preseason

Gordon Hayward didn’t play in the Charlotte Hornets’ preseason opener against the Boston Celtics, missing the game with a knee injury. After only playing in 49 of the 82 games in the 2021-22 season, this is not a great sign. The Hornets are clearly a better team when he is able to play. For two straight seasons the Hornets were above .500 and in the playoff hunt before Hayward went out with an injury. This is mostly precautionary according to head coach Steve Clifford after Hayward banged his knee in practice, but it just makes Hornets fans nervous.


If there is a need to dump major salary in Summer 2023, there should be multiple teams that can absorb blah/bad salary into Cap Space instead of sending back blah salary like Hayward.


Houston 2023-24

Indiana 2023-24

San Antonio 2023-24


Hayward, Plumlee and Oubre probably have little if any positive value as players on their current contracts. The values to be assigned to Rozier and Cody Martin are subject to debate. Of the younger players, still quite a few that are projects.

Charlotte

Hayward.....32
Plumlee......32
Rozier.........28
Cody Martin..27
Oubre.........26

Washington...24
McDaniels.....24
Richards.......24
Bouknight.....22
Kai Jones......21
Ball.............21
JT Thor.........20
M Williams.....20
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Re: Who wants the Hornets? 

Post#39 » by Resistance » Thu Oct 6, 2022 8:33 pm

Meant to include this in my earlier post.

Hayward

2022-23 Contract details by year 32 $30,075,000
2023-24 Contract details by year 33 $31,500,000

Contract Notes:
15% Trade Kicker
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Re: Who wants the Hornets? 

Post#40 » by Resistance » Thu Oct 6, 2022 8:36 pm

Rich4114 wrote:In the spirit of not tanking and instead finding a viable running mate for LaMelo, what about Jordan Poole? Will GSW plan to sign him for what he wants given their tax/cap situation or might they be interested in moving him for something they can invest in down the road plus expirings? Not sure if there’s possible interest or a move there to be made but thought I’d ask here.



Would Rozier or Poole be coming off of the bench?

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