What normal basketball action should be counted among basic stats

Moderators: Clyde Frazier, Doctor MJ, trex_8063, penbeast0, PaulieWal

Which basketball action should be counted as a basic statistic

Picks set
3
17%
Charges taken
5
28%
Hockey assist
5
28%
Other
5
28%
 
Total votes: 18

Bklynborn682
Pro Prospect
Posts: 983
And1: 162
Joined: Apr 15, 2016
   

What normal basketball action should be counted among basic stats 

Post#1 » by Bklynborn682 » Sat Oct 8, 2022 12:32 pm

Which basketball action should be counted as a basic stat along the likes of points, rebounding, assists etc.
Reason being I believe the more basic stats are available to casual fans the more they may appreciate the little things that aren’t always on ball activities as some of the biggest way to help your team.
Fadeaway_J
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 28,438
And1: 7,636
Joined: Jul 25, 2016
Location: Kingston, Jamaica
   

Re: What normal basketball action should be counted among basic stats 

Post#2 » by Fadeaway_J » Sat Oct 8, 2022 12:38 pm

Deflections would be good.

You would think if someone is consistently getting a hand on the ball and disrupting offensive sets, it's less likely that they're just recklessly gambling for steals.
Dutchball97
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,406
And1: 5,002
Joined: Mar 28, 2020
   

Re: What normal basketball action should be counted among basic stats 

Post#3 » by Dutchball97 » Sat Oct 8, 2022 1:01 pm

I'd like to see screens set and opponent FG%.
70sFan
RealGM
Posts: 29,892
And1: 25,221
Joined: Aug 11, 2015
 

Re: What normal basketball action should be counted among basic stats 

Post#4 » by 70sFan » Sat Oct 8, 2022 1:39 pm

Passes leading to shooting fouls is another good one.
penbeast0
Senior Mod - NBA Player Comparisons
Senior Mod - NBA Player Comparisons
Posts: 30,313
And1: 9,875
Joined: Aug 14, 2004
Location: South Florida
 

Re: What normal basketball action should be counted among basic stats 

Post#5 » by penbeast0 » Sat Oct 8, 2022 1:44 pm

Lost man (defensively), when your man gets a step on you toward the basket, mark it down on the scoresheet.
“Most people use statistics like a drunk man uses a lamppost; more for support than illumination,” Andrew Lang.
Bklynborn682
Pro Prospect
Posts: 983
And1: 162
Joined: Apr 15, 2016
   

Re: What normal basketball action should be counted among basic stats 

Post#6 » by Bklynborn682 » Sat Oct 8, 2022 3:35 pm

penbeast0 wrote:Lost man (defensively), when your man gets a step on you toward the basket, mark it down on the scoresheet.

I like this one a lot. Would you mark it the same if you have a lazy transition defender?
The-Power
RealGM
Posts: 10,503
And1: 9,926
Joined: Jan 03, 2014
Location: Germany
   

Re: What normal basketball action should be counted among basic stats 

Post#7 » by The-Power » Sat Oct 8, 2022 3:40 pm

penbeast0 wrote:Lost man (defensively), when your man gets a step on you toward the basket, mark it down on the scoresheet.

Too difficult to keep track of as a basic stat because it's often not straightforward to determine who is actually at fault.
falcolombardi
General Manager
Posts: 9,494
And1: 7,102
Joined: Apr 13, 2021
       

Re: What normal basketball action should be counted among basic stats 

Post#8 » by falcolombardi » Sat Oct 8, 2022 5:22 pm

Passes leading to free throws
70sFan
RealGM
Posts: 29,892
And1: 25,221
Joined: Aug 11, 2015
 

Re: What normal basketball action should be counted among basic stats 

Post#9 » by 70sFan » Sat Oct 8, 2022 5:40 pm

falcolombardi wrote:Passes leading to free throws

I was first! :wink:
falcolombardi
General Manager
Posts: 9,494
And1: 7,102
Joined: Apr 13, 2021
       

Re: What normal basketball action should be counted among basic stats 

Post#10 » by falcolombardi » Sat Oct 8, 2022 5:40 pm

Assists to the corner and assists for layups/dunks would be a very interesring stat to have and shouldnt be too difficult to keep track of
penbeast0
Senior Mod - NBA Player Comparisons
Senior Mod - NBA Player Comparisons
Posts: 30,313
And1: 9,875
Joined: Aug 14, 2004
Location: South Florida
 

Re: What normal basketball action should be counted among basic stats 

Post#11 » by penbeast0 » Sat Oct 8, 2022 7:22 pm

The-Power wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:Lost man (defensively), when your man gets a step on you toward the basket, mark it down on the scoresheet.

Too difficult to keep track of as a basic stat because it's often not straightforward to determine who is actually at fault.


Not that much harder than an assist. And, if the scorekeeper decides that you should have been covering that transition player, then yes.

As for passes leading to FT's, a missed shot where you are fouled should be counted as a shot so that we can keep track of points per shot with FTs included. TS% just approximates this. Assists could be tracked the same way (passes leading to points).
“Most people use statistics like a drunk man uses a lamppost; more for support than illumination,” Andrew Lang.
MyUniBroDavis
General Manager
Posts: 7,827
And1: 5,032
Joined: Jan 14, 2013

Re: What normal basketball action should be counted among basic stats 

Post#12 » by MyUniBroDavis » Sun Oct 9, 2022 1:58 am

Bklynborn682 wrote:Which basketball action should be counted as a basic stat along the likes of points, rebounding, assists etc.
Reason being I believe the more basic stats are available to casual fans the more they may appreciate the little things that aren’t always on ball activities as some of the biggest way to help your team.


Main box score? Charges drawn, since it’s the only one where you’re 100% ending a possession that isn’t tracked whatsoever

The other stuff should be and is tracked but it not being main box score makes sense to me
HeartBreakKid
RealGM
Posts: 22,395
And1: 18,828
Joined: Mar 08, 2012
     

Re: What normal basketball action should be counted among basic stats 

Post#13 » by HeartBreakKid » Sun Oct 9, 2022 2:02 am

Charges drawn and steals should be fused into "turnovers forced"
The-Power
RealGM
Posts: 10,503
And1: 9,926
Joined: Jan 03, 2014
Location: Germany
   

Re: What normal basketball action should be counted among basic stats 

Post#14 » by The-Power » Sun Oct 9, 2022 2:42 am

penbeast0 wrote:
The-Power wrote:
penbeast0 wrote:Lost man (defensively), when your man gets a step on you toward the basket, mark it down on the scoresheet.

Too difficult to keep track of as a basic stat because it's often not straightforward to determine who is actually at fault.


Not that much harder than an assist. And, if the scorekeeper decides that you should have been covering that transition player, then yes.

Not really. With assists, there is a bit of judgement involved – sure. But not regarding the player, only regarding the action. To me that's quite different. I think basketball is too complex for scorekeepers to determine in real time who messed up a rotation or lost his man on defense. Sure, in the most egregious cases it's obvious but there is too much grey. imo, that's something to be done by professional analysts who watch the footage as is the case right now.

I like the idea to keep track of assists leading to FTs or generally assisted points a lot more. It's already done obviously, but it could be a basic stat without much effort because it's easy to keep track of in real time.
User avatar
Jaivl
Head Coach
Posts: 7,044
And1: 6,707
Joined: Jan 28, 2014
Location: A Coruña, Spain
Contact:
   

Re: What normal basketball action should be counted among basic stats 

Post#15 » by Jaivl » Sun Oct 9, 2022 1:56 pm

We need a good defensive boxscore stat, but it also needs to be simple to be able to be counted. I would use "close contests (CCs)".

HeartBreakKid wrote:Charges drawn and steals should be fused into "turnovers forced"

And call them "Rickys".
This place is a cesspool of mindless ineptitude, mental decrepitude, and intellectual lassitude. I refuse to be sucked any deeper into this whirlpool of groupthink sewage. My opinions have been expressed. I'm going to go take a shower.
User avatar
henshao
Pro Prospect
Posts: 942
And1: 448
Joined: Jul 29, 2018

Re: What normal basketball action should be counted among basic stats 

Post#16 » by henshao » Sun Oct 9, 2022 5:15 pm

Similar to football, fumbles, their own stat, can be forced, their own stat, and can be lost or recovered, their own stats
Bklynborn682
Pro Prospect
Posts: 983
And1: 162
Joined: Apr 15, 2016
   

Re: What normal basketball action should be counted among basic stats 

Post#17 » by Bklynborn682 » Mon Oct 10, 2022 12:13 pm

I think picks set that lead either directly to points or wide open shot attempts may be a easy but valuable stat to track
parsnips33
Head Coach
Posts: 7,408
And1: 3,387
Joined: Sep 01, 2014
 

Re: What normal basketball action should be counted among basic stats 

Post#18 » by parsnips33 » Mon Oct 10, 2022 5:23 pm

Double teams drawn
User avatar
BenoUdrihFTL
RealGM
Posts: 10,701
And1: 23,489
Joined: Feb 20, 2013
Location: Papa John's
 

Re: What normal basketball action should be counted among basic stats 

Post#19 » by BenoUdrihFTL » Mon Oct 10, 2022 6:59 pm

My favorites have already been mentioned, so perhaps a stat emphasizing degree of difficulty on FGAs? Some guys just have poor shot-selection, but other times a player is tasked -- when the possession calls for it and in the absence of better options -- with the burden of creating and making what are objectively tough shots for the average NBA player. Could be formulated by tracking "bailout" FGAs late into the shotclock, and/or against multiple defenders within X amount of feet, and/or unassisted, and/or off pullups, turnarounds, fadeaways, runners, floaters, etc, or any other category that's shown to consistently result in lower percentage FGAs

Relative proficiency with these notoriously difficult shots adds a significant layer of scoring resilience that isn't really captured on paper by traditional PPG or FG/3P %s. If this stat were to exist then you could differentiate on your own between likely team-need and likely questionable shot-selection by adding context like team offensive build/performance and an individual's relative proportion of these attempts to total FGA (e.g. if you have competent offensive teammates yet still find yourself taking as many bad quality shots as good ones, you might have poor shot-selection). By tracking efficiency on these shots, you'd also get an idea of which players shouldn't be taking them, further identifying when poor shot-selection is probably at play
1.61803398874989484820458683436563811772030917980576286
2135448622705260462818902449707207
204189391137484754088
0753868917521
26633862
22353
693
dooki667
Junior
Posts: 380
And1: 259
Joined: Feb 26, 2019
   

Re: What normal basketball action should be counted among basic stats 

Post#20 » by dooki667 » Mon Oct 10, 2022 8:36 pm

What y'all think about times you didn't run back on defense

Return to Player Comparisons