Who wants the Hornets?

[Rich4114]

PJ Washington will need a new contract and maintaining enough Cap Space so they are a viable candidate to present an Offer Sheet to Poole might be tricky.

When Rich4114 comes back to continue the conversation, I will go into more details about what pursuing Poole will involve.

Rich4114 has returned!

I did some stats comparisons on Poole vs Terry and it’s remarkable how similar they are. I know that doesn’t tell the whole story considering the variance in rosters and coaching though. I look at Poole as having a tremendous amount of upside as a featured starting guard and one thing he does better than Terry is get to the line plus he’s like 92%. Terry has a slight edge in a few other areas.

Anyway, is the Poole thing a possibility given the recent news and his pending contract situation?

Charlotte 2023-24

Gordon Hayward........$31,500,000
Terry Rozier..............$23,205,221
LaMelo Ball..............$10,900,635
Cody Martin...............$7,560,000

James Bouknight.........$4,570,080
Mark Williams.............$3,908,160
Kai Jones..................$3,047,880
JT Thor.....................$1,836,096

Cap Holds
2023 First..................$3,400,000

PJ Washington...........$17,425,306
Jalen McDaniels...........$1,805,205

Unfilled Roster Spot
Min Salary..................$1,102,928

Unknown
Bridges................................$0
________________________________
............................$110,261,511


With a Salary Cap of $134 Million, Charlotte would have about $23.7 million available for a first year salary to present to Poole in an Offer Sheet. So slightly more than what they would be paying Rozier. The numbers for the Team Salary above will change depending on things such as

* The exact placement/slot of the 2023 Draft Pick and the subsequent Cap Hold post draft
* Something more definite on the contract for PJ Washington
* Resolution on the situation with Bridges

During the early part of the offseason, speculation was that it might be possible to pry Poole away from Golden State if the first year salary was somewhat over $20 million. With Herro no longer being a possible RFA next Summer (2023) and the remaining pool of Free Agents and probable Restricted Free Agents being somewhat blah, it might take a first year salary of $25 million or higher to pry Poole away from Golden State.

If Poole signs an Offer Sheet with Charlotte and the first year salary is $23.7 million, I would expect Golden State to match/accept that contract.

Once Poole signs an Offer Sheet, the opportunity for Golden State to do a Sign & Trade disappears.

So my question taking all of this into account is let’s say GSW were open to moving Poole now especially given the strife with him and Draymond - what kind of package would make sense for them? Is it a Dejonte Murray type package or something slightly below given Poole has slightly less versatility and isn’t as proven?

[loserX]

Suns trade Crowder, Shamet, Saric, next two 1sts (reasonable protections) for PJ Washington and Terry Rozier

Hornets do the reverse, and can try to swing Crowder elsewhere for expirings and 2nds (Dallas for Powell? Sacramento for Davis/Len?).

Charlotte gets picks, Suns get a legit PF replacement and a terrific 3rd guard option to round out their roster.

[Resistance]

So my question taking all of this into account is let’s say GSW were open to moving Poole now especially given the strife with him and Draymond - what kind of package would make sense for them? Is it a Dejonte Murray type package or something slightly below given Poole has slightly less versatility and isn’t as proven?

Curry.................34
Klay Thompson.....32
Draymond Green...32

Wiggins...............27
Looney................26
DiVincenzo...........25
Poole..................23

Wiseman.............21
Kuminga.............20
Moody................20


There are some others such as JaMychal Green and Iguodala that I didn't include because they are of lesser importance than those above. Debated dropping DiVincenzo, but left him in for now.

Wiggins and Poole will need new contracts next Summer (2023) and Green has a PO (Player Option).

For this season (2022-23), I have Golden State very reluctant to tinker too much with a trade of any of

* Wiggins
* Green
* Poole

Curry is still rolling along, so doing anything that resembles a step backwards for this season such as trading any of the three players named above for Filler and draft pick compensation would be out of synch with Going For It! while Curry still has Game.

Jordan Poole SG $3,901,399


At the moment, he is outplaying his contract.

Poole
Born: June 19, 1999 (Age: 23-111d)

Rozier
Born: March 17, 1994 (Age: 28-204d)


Poole is (5) years younger than Rozier and he knows what to do in their system.

Unless Charlotte comes with a major overpay next Summer to do a Sign & Trade of Poole for Rozier, I don't think that Golden State will do the trade.

Since the situation with Bridges is still fuzzy and Oubre is nothing special, I have Charlotte needing to improve at SF or SF/PF or PF/SF rather than try to trade for Poole in a Sign & Trade.

[WillyJakkz]

I think Miami would offer a first or Jovic for PJ washington

I think Jovic is showing some really nice signs of being a baller. I wouldn't be so quick to trade him and I think the Heat really like the kid too.

[raferfenix]

Bucks have been linked to Clarkson which makes me think we could be interested in Rozier as well if he becomes available.

Unlike Clarkson, Rozier is locked up on a reasonable contract long term too.

Problem is the Bucks have such limited salaries we can trade without creating other holes even aside from what other assets we’d include.

Not sure if we’d deal Lopez in particular.

In theory we could do something like Nwora / Ibaka / Allen / Hill midseason if that’s enough outgoing salary.

What draft picks we could / would include then becomes the question.

[Crives]

Suns trade Crowder, Shamet, Saric, next two 1sts (reasonable protections) for PJ Washington and Terry Rozier

Hornets do the reverse, and can try to swing Crowder elsewhere for expirings and 2nds (Dallas for Powell? Sacramento for Davis/Len?).

Charlotte gets picks, Suns get a legit PF replacement and a terrific 3rd guard option to round out their roster.

I like Rozier playing alongside Booker when CP3 retires or takes a bench role.

Suns actually went after Rozier when he was FA in Boston, but last minute Hornets threw out very overpriced offer (overpriced for perceived value at the time)

[babyjax13]

Bucks have been linked to Clarkson which makes me think we could be interested in Rozier as well if he becomes available.

Unlike Clarkson, Rozier is locked up on a reasonable contract long term too.

Problem is the Bucks have such limited salaries we can trade without creating other holes even aside from what other assets we’d include.

Not sure if we’d deal Lopez in particular.

In theory we could do something like Nwora / Ibaka / Allen / Hill midseason if that’s enough outgoing salary.

What draft picks we could / would include then becomes the question.

Clarkson has another year (PO) after this. He might decline the PO to re-up longer term, but he's like 60% of the cost of Rozier and gives you similar impact on offense. Rozier is a better defender, of course.

[raferfenix]

Clarkson has another year (PO) after this. He might decline the PO to re-up longer term, but he's like 60% of the cost of Rozier and gives you similar impact on offense. Rozier is a better defender, of course.

I’m assuming Clarkson takes the player option unless he has a devastating injury.

What do you think his next contract will look like?

[babyjax13]

Clarkson has another year (PO) after this. He might decline the PO to re-up longer term, but he's like 60% of the cost of Rozier and gives you similar impact on offense. Rozier is a better defender, of course.

I’m assuming Clarkson takes the player option unless he has a devastating injury.

What do you think his next contract will look like?

Probably 3 years, MLE or just above type money. Something like the contract he is on now, so like...$13-15 million a year?

[giberish]

So my question taking all of this into account is let’s say GSW were open to moving Poole now especially given the strife with him and Draymond - what kind of package would make sense for them? Is it a Dejonte Murray type package or something slightly below given Poole has slightly less versatility and isn’t as proven?

The Spurs traded away Murray in a very clear win-later move. Golden State is not going to consider a win-later move. Golden State is not tanking. So any deal would look VERY, VERY different. The most important part of a Poole deal would be the returning player(s), picks would be secondary issues. Of course getting win-now players back for Poole on his current salary is problematic. IMO there is no sane deal with the Hornets. Any win-now help Charlotte could send back would be too expensive to match contracts simply. The only exception is Ball and Charlotte's not doing that (regardless of what other pieces are involved).

The closest I can come up with league-wide for a deal that sort-of makes sense is something like Poole + Wiseman for Quickley + Hartenstein on the Knicks. Perhaps the Knicks adding a protected 1st or two (of the several they have from other teams). Quickley's a downgrade from Poole but is still a very good 3rd guard and his extra year on a late-1st deal is very useful to GS. Hartenstien's better right now than Wiseman (at the cost of long-term upside). Of course Hartenstien can't be dealt until mid-season so it falls apart but that's something like how a deal that GS might consider would look.

[Michaellam1987]

How about DAL offers Dinwiddie + Powell + Green + future 2nd round pick for Rozier + Oubre Jr ?

DAL get talent upgrade and continue to approach its championshop aspiration while CHA free out more future cap space and improve their lottery pick chance.

[gom]

Improve their lottery pick chance by getting worse intentionally? I thought that only happens in cheat mode. A future 2nd doesn't help at all.

[winforlose]

The Hornets look like a team that should just tank the year and build down to the studs around LaMelo.

Make your best offers...

PJ Washington
Terry Rozier
Kelly Oubre
Gordon Hayward

Which contending teams would have interest in those guys?

Let me flip this on it’s head with a single hypo. The Hornets end around 6th or 7th, win the lottery and draft VW. Now you have Ball and VW on rookie deals. What is the best support cast you can put around them, assuming all available players and picks besides those 2 are in play?

[Resistance]

The Hornets look like a team that should just tank the year and build down to the studs around LaMelo.

Make your best offers...

PJ Washington
Terry Rozier
Kelly Oubre
Gordon Hayward

Which contending teams would have interest in those guys?

Let me flip this on it’s head with a single hypo. The Hornets end around 6th or 7th, win the lottery and draft VW. Now you have Ball and VW on rookie deals. What is the best support cast you can put around them, assuming all available players and picks besides those 2 are in play?

If the draft pick from Denver comes through in the 2023 draft, they will have an additional player selected #15 - #30. They will still owe a First Round pick to San Antonio.

Washington and Oubre will need contracts with no clarity on Bridges and his situation at the moment.

Hayward will still have a contract, but I wouldn't include him when planning the future for Charlotte.



Based on current information, I would have them in need of at least (1) quality Wing (PF, SF, PF/SF, SF/PF) to fill in around Victor, Ball and Rozier. Since good Wings are popular across the league, Charlotte might not be able to fill that need in the 2023-24 offseason.

I am not crazy about Rozier, but at least he can eat minutes for now. Bouknight, Martin, Kai Jones and Mark Williams might represent modest values if included in a trade. Unless something changes, Hayward will have negative value in a trade.

***************************************************

Based on the above, I have it as difficult for Charlotte to make a great leap forward with the rest of the roster in one offseason.

[raferfenix]

Probably 3 years, MLE or just above type money. Something like the contract he is on now, so like...$13-15 million a year?

Agreed that if Clarkson were to only cost that much it tilts the balance of how he compares vs Rozier.

Thats especially if he could / would agree to an extension so the team acquiring him wouldn’t have to roll the dice losing him for nothing.

Is it clear Rozier is a better player though?

Clarkson could be cheaper to acquire (despite Ainge’s negotiation tactics) since they likely don’t want to keep him beyond the season. Then again if the Hornets do end up tanking the Rozier could be available on the (relative) cheap.

[LuessiT]

Probably 3 years, MLE or just above type money. Something like the contract he is on now, so like...$13-15 million a year?

Agreed that if Clarkson were to only cost that much it tilts the balance of how he compares vs Rozier.

Thats especially if he could / would agree to an extension so the team acquiring him wouldn’t have to roll the dice losing him for nothing.

Is it clear Rozier is a better player though?

Clarkson could be cheaper to acquire (despite Ainge’s negotiation tactics) since they likely don’t want to keep him beyond the season. Then again if the Hornets do end up tanking the Rozier could be available on the (relative) cheap.

In my book he's a much better player. Rozier's only weakness is that he's got a SG skill set in a PG body, which to be fair is a big strain on team building but if you already have primary initiators from different positions like the Hornets or the Bucks do, he's's perfectly viable.
Clarkson is obviously cheaper and may actually be the more skilled offensive player, but in terms of impacting winning I feel like Rozier is a lot more valuable.

[raferfenix]

In my book he's a much better player. Rozier's only weakness is that he's got a SG skill set in a PG body, which to be fair is a big strain on team building but if you already have primary initiators from different positions like the Hornets or the Bucks do, he's's perfectly viable.
Clarkson is obviously cheaper and may actually be the more skilled offensive player, but in terms of impacting winning I feel like Rozier is a lot more valuable.

Is Rozier a tier above Clarkson as a defender? It was my impression that he was better overall but if Clarkson is close to if not a more skilled offensive player I'm curious how the Bucks compare them.

That and the extra money matters insofar as the Bucks' putting together a trade package.

Do you know if Nwora + Ibaka + Hill + Allen would work for Rozier contractually?

Lopez + Hill or Allen would be much simpler cap-wise of course (and could be done sooner) but that'd depend on how much the Bucks really value Brook these days.

If Milwaukee would be pulling PJ Washington in addition to Rozier (Lopez + Allen works for the pair) that'd fill out the rotation a bit more, but the Bucks would be way reliant on Ibaka as our only true center currently on the roster.

What picks or other assets the Bucks would have to deal to entice the Hornets would also matter a lot too.

[NYG]

I think Hayward is probably better off elsewhere at this point, but who would even want him that could match the salary?

[NYG]

Rozier for Crowder, Saric and Shamet? Crowder for Dwight Powell and a second?

[Ell Curry]

I think Hayward is probably better off elsewhere at this point, but who would even want him that could match the salary?

3 way with Miami with Lowry going to some team that needs a PG, like this:

Charlotte - Westbrook
Miami - Hayward, Clippers, Lakers and Charlotte 2nd rounders.
Clippers - Kyle Lowry, Miami lottery protected first rounder
Lakers - Marcus Morris, Reggie Jackson, Oubre

Charlotte saves 30M next year so they give up Oubre and a 2nd to do that. This move lets them extend PJ Washington for say 15M and still have the 20-25M in cap room they need to sign Turner or Poeltl if they miss out on Wembanyama, or if they do somehow get Wemby, they can go after Cam Johnson, Dillon Brooks, Josh Hart or Jerami Grant or someone like that with a big offer.

Miami gets a fun Herro-Martin-Hayward-Butler-Bam lineup that compensates for lack of size at the 4 by being lengthy. They give up a 1st for saving 30M of Lowry next year but they get some 2nds back and can probably under the tax and use the MLE next year on a new PG like uh Reggie Jackson or Pat Beverley, and resign Hayward, though they might have to use those 2nds to get off of Oladipo or Duncan Robinson to do it.

Lakers suddenly have 6 NBA players in AD-LeBron-Morris-Oubre-Beverley-Jackson and for giving up only a 2nd rounder.

Clippers get Lowry and can play him and Wall 20 minutes a night (with Mann getting the other 8 while Kennard, Kawhi and George are out there so there's enough offense) and avoid playing time grumbles from Mann, Coffey and others by opening up some wing minutes. Clips get a late first in exchange for a 2nd for taking on 30M of Lowry next year.

Probably more picks need to be involved and people will scream about Westbrook returning decent players, but I think it raises the Clippers' title odds unless Lowry is completely cooked and the Lakers do take on 17M in Morris' salary next year so they're not just winning here.