OT: Magnus Carlsen brouhahas

[shangrila]

He was only favored to win 53% to 47% at the time, so, why the outrage? I mean, if her hand sucked so bad that the only explanation for her winning was that she cheated, and yet it was basically a toss-up as to which hand would win......

I played poker for a living for a few years, you play against your opponent's range of hands, you don't know what they actually have. She's way behind his pushing range here, which includes both his range of good hands and bluffs. A lot of his bluffing range will include queens, kings, or aces especially on a 10 high board. You can't assume your opponent is holding low suited connectors, that makes up a small portion of his potential range.

But... there's no reason to assume she is cheating. Just looks like she got caught with her hand in the cookie jar and made a bad call.

There's a smoking gun revelation discovered tonight. Went from "oddest hand ever but nothing to conclude cheating" to a high probability of cheating imo.

Care to share?

[DonaldSanders]

He was only favored to win 53% to 47% at the time, so, why the outrage? I mean, if her hand sucked so bad that the only explanation for her winning was that she cheated, and yet it was basically a toss-up as to which hand would win......

I played poker for a living for a few years, you play against your opponent's range of hands, you don't know what they actually have. She's way behind his pushing range here, which includes both his range of good hands and bluffs. A lot of his bluffing range will include queens, kings, or aces especially on a 10 high board. You can't assume your opponent is holding low suited connectors, that makes up a small portion of his potential range.

But... there's no reason to assume she is cheating. Just looks like she got caught with her hand in the cookie jar and made a bad call.

There's a smoking gun revelation discovered tonight. Went from "oddest hand ever but nothing to conclude cheating" to a high probability of cheating imo.

Wow, that would shock me.

This is the exact type of hand you would NOT want to cheat with. You'd be making a dumber than the "non cheating call" to cheat on a play like that, holllly.

Still, poker is absolutely filled with angling & cheating scumbags, even worse as time has gone on. Cheating wouldn't surprise me, but how dumb it was done would. But yeah, pass on what you've learned

[BoatsNZones]

I played poker for a living for a few years, you play against your opponent's range of hands, you don't know what they actually have. She's way behind his pushing range here, which includes both his range of good hands and bluffs. A lot of his bluffing range will include queens, kings, or aces especially on a 10 high board. You can't assume your opponent is holding low suited connectors, that makes up a small portion of his potential range.

But... there's no reason to assume she is cheating. Just looks like she got caught with her hand in the cookie jar and made a bad call.

There's a smoking gun revelation discovered tonight. Went from "oddest hand ever but nothing to conclude cheating" to a high probability of cheating imo.

Care to share?

It's all coming out as we speak, and frankly with her added comments on the situation, I am back to "who the hell knows".

It was found that a member of the poker production staff removed 15K in chips from her stack after the live-stream concluded. So while my first thought after reading this was, well now she's negatively connected to a member of the live-stream who has access to the cards (without delay). But it still does not add up to me. Why in the world would he take the money in the casino (on camera) and not just receive his portion of the payment (assuming he was taking his split of their cheat) off location?

[shangrila]

There's a smoking gun revelation discovered tonight. Went from "oddest hand ever but nothing to conclude cheating" to a high probability of cheating imo.

Care to share?

It's all coming out as we speak, and frankly with her added comments on the situation, I am back to "who the hell knows".

It was found that a member of the poker production staff removed 15K in chips from her stack after the live-stream concluded. So while my first thought after reading this was, well now she's negatively connected to a member of the live-stream who has access to the cards (without delay). But it still does not add up to me. Why in the world would he take the money in the casino (on camera) and not just receive his portion of the payment (assuming he was taking his split of their cheat) off location?

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2022/10/poker-controversy-hcl-review-robbi-jade-lew-garrett-adelstein-update-stolen-chips

For anyone wondering.

And yeah, makes no sense. Not sure why she wouldn't want to press charges, although maybe the guy returned the money after he was found out?

[DonaldSanders]

There's a smoking gun revelation discovered tonight. Went from "oddest hand ever but nothing to conclude cheating" to a high probability of cheating imo.

Care to share?

It's all coming out as we speak, and frankly with her added comments on the situation, I am back to "who the hell knows".

It was found that a member of the poker production staff removed 15K in chips from her stack after the live-stream concluded. So while my first thought after reading this was, well now she's negatively connected to a member of the live-stream who has access to the cards (without delay). But it still does not add up to me. Why in the world would he take the money in the casino (on camera) and not just receive his portion of the payment (assuming he was taking his split of their cheat) off location?

OK if this is all there is, that's not really proving cheating at all.

If the cheating was actually organized enough to involve people seeing the cards in real time, the last thing you would want is to make everyone wonder by making a wild Jack high call on a board you could be drawing dead on. There would be so many other more garden variety spots to make plays with bluff catchers that nobody would ever think twice about that cheating on this board is just a wild concept. Fancy Play Syndrome seems more likely, or her mis-reading the board or her own cards thinking the 3 had paired her.

And yeah, makes no sense. Not sure why she wouldn't want to press charges, although maybe the guy returned the money after he was found out?

Well if the guy was caught I'm sure she got her money back. Pressing charges is -EV for her in terms of time investment, poker players are rarely the type to be a moral hero with their time.

[Fencer reregistered]

The president of the Norwegian Chess Federation resigned after admitting that he cheated once, when he was playing in a team competition. Carlsen was on the team, but does not seem to be implicated.

(Note: That may sound less weird when we note that he's close to Carlsen's age, rather than being some graybeard.)

https://www.chess.com/news/view/norwegian-chess-federation-president-nilsen-cheating

[Lou84]

The "Mentor" Maxim Dlugy made a written statement concerning the stuff going on. (Magnus indicated that he is Niemanns coach, he was banned because of cheating as well) Long story short, he says he cheated but it was not his fault and didn't notice until afterwards (obviously rofl), sprinkled in with some personal attacks on Hikaru Nakamuras father (no joke) and he tries to make the connection between chess.com and Magnus.

I stay with my opinion to never ever trust a cheat. Not in a game, nor in professional or in personal life. Once a cheat, always a cheat.

In other news. Niemann started well into the us chess championship but is now at rank 12 of 14 participants after 6 games. Don't want to read too much into it, all the attention he got has for sure an influence on his performance but it still makes you wonder if he cheated over the board. Not playing like a 2700 right now, that's for sure.




Sent from my Pixel 3a using RealGM mobile app

[Fencer reregistered]

The "Mentor" Maxim Dlugy made a written statement concerning the stuff going on. (Magnus indicated that he is Niemanns coach, he was banned because of cheating as well) Long story short, he says he cheated but it was not his fault and didn't notice until afterwards (obviously rofl), sprinkled in with some personal attacks on Hikaru Nakamuras father (no joke) and he tries to make the connection between chess.com and Magnus.

I stay with my opinion to never ever trust a cheat. Not in a game, nor in professional or in personal life. Once a cheat, always a cheat.

In other news. Niemann started well into the us chess championship but is now at rank 12 of 14 participants after 6 games. Don't want to read too much into it, all the attention he got has for sure an influence on his performance but it still makes you wonder if he cheated over the board. Not playing like a 2700 right now, that's for sure.




Sent from my Pixel 3a using RealGM mobile app

Matchups? Most of the field is clustered right around 50%, and one of Niemann's losses is to the "runaway" leader. The other loss was to a guy who is now tied for second.

https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chess.pl?tid=117035

[Lou84]

Its not so much about losing or drawing or lets say the ranking itself. It is a good competition for sure, no shame in that. It is more about the how he plays until now. He is not playing very well, makes mistakes etc.

I am not saying it is evidence per se, dude 100% feels the pressure he gets from the public, I absolutely give him that. But there is a difference in the way a +2500 GM plays and how a 2700 GM plays (who in theory should be a beast if we take his astonishing "development" over the last few years into account)

Maybe he starts a comeback, we will see.

[jackman]

Read on Twitter

AD is cheating in the wrong sport. Anal beads only work in chess.

[dooki667]

Care to share?

It's all coming out as we speak, and frankly with her added comments on the situation, I am back to "who the hell knows".

It was found that a member of the poker production staff removed 15K in chips from her stack after the live-stream concluded. So while my first thought after reading this was, well now she's negatively connected to a member of the live-stream who has access to the cards (without delay). But it still does not add up to me. Why in the world would he take the money in the casino (on camera) and not just receive his portion of the payment (assuming he was taking his split of their cheat) off location?

OK if this is all there is, that's not really proving cheating at all.

If the cheating was actually organized enough to involve people seeing the cards in real time, the last thing you would want is to make everyone wonder by making a wild Jack high call on a board you could be drawing dead on. There would be so many other more garden variety spots to make plays with bluff catchers that nobody would ever think twice about that cheating on this board is just a wild concept. Fancy Play Syndrome seems more likely, or her mis-reading the board or her own cards thinking the 3 had paired her.

And yeah, makes no sense. Not sure why she wouldn't want to press charges, although maybe the guy returned the money after he was found out?

Well if the guy was caught I'm sure she got her money back. Pressing charges is -EV for her in terms of time investment, poker players are rarely the type to be a moral hero with their time.

According to her casino has found evidence he's stolen chips from players multiple times to other players as well if true it kills the robbi link

[Cubbies2120]

Read the OP here:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/garrett-adelstein-report-likely-cheating-hustler-casino-live-1813491/

[BoatsNZones]

It's all coming out as we speak, and frankly with her added comments on the situation, I am back to "who the hell knows".

It was found that a member of the poker production staff removed 15K in chips from her stack after the live-stream concluded. So while my first thought after reading this was, well now she's negatively connected to a member of the live-stream who has access to the cards (without delay). But it still does not add up to me. Why in the world would he take the money in the casino (on camera) and not just receive his portion of the payment (assuming he was taking his split of their cheat) off location?

OK if this is all there is, that's not really proving cheating at all.

If the cheating was actually organized enough to involve people seeing the cards in real time, the last thing you would want is to make everyone wonder by making a wild Jack high call on a board you could be drawing dead on. There would be so many other more garden variety spots to make plays with bluff catchers that nobody would ever think twice about that cheating on this board is just a wild concept. Fancy Play Syndrome seems more likely, or her mis-reading the board or her own cards thinking the 3 had paired her.

And yeah, makes no sense. Not sure why she wouldn't want to press charges, although maybe the guy returned the money after he was found out?

Well if the guy was caught I'm sure she got her money back. Pressing charges is -EV for her in terms of time investment, poker players are rarely the type to be a moral hero with their time.

According to her casino has found evidence he's stolen chips from players multiple times to other players as well if true it kills the robbi link

They're still investigating that part. There's been no word on that yet. There's a hundred pieces to this still under investigation.

The only thing that is for certain is that Hustler had a horribly sloppy operation and hopefully this brings about change throughout all the poker streams. They need to ensure that are regulated to the standards of those in Nevada (PokerGo in the Aria for example is exemplary, but even they have to reconsider the use of RFID entirely).

[dooki667]

OK if this is all there is, that's not really proving cheating at all.

If the cheating was actually organized enough to involve people seeing the cards in real time, the last thing you would want is to make everyone wonder by making a wild Jack high call on a board you could be drawing dead on. There would be so many other more garden variety spots to make plays with bluff catchers that nobody would ever think twice about that cheating on this board is just a wild concept. Fancy Play Syndrome seems more likely, or her mis-reading the board or her own cards thinking the 3 had paired her.



Well if the guy was caught I'm sure she got her money back. Pressing charges is -EV for her in terms of time investment, poker players are rarely the type to be a moral hero with their time.

According to her casino has found evidence he's stolen chips from players multiple times to other players as well if true it kills the robbi link

They're still investigating that part. There's been no word on that yet. There's a hundred pieces to this still under investigation.

The only thing that is for certain is that Hustler had a horribly sloppy operation and hopefully this brings about change throughout all the poker streams. They need to ensure that are regulated to the standards of those in Nevada (PokerGo in the Aria for example is exemplary, but even they have to reconsider the use of RFID entirely).

I don't have much hope should have been done after postle but hopefully

[dooki667]

if anyone cares she took and passed a lie detector test and gave her phone over to law enforcement unless casino comes out with some definitive leave this woman alone.

[mademan]

if anyone cares she took and passed a lie detector test and gave her phone over to law enforcement unless casino comes out with some definitive leave this woman alone.

i still cant get over that dude "randomly" picking her stack to take from and her not realizing she was missing 15k. That's just very hard to believe, imo

[dooki667]

if anyone cares she took and passed a lie detector test and gave her phone over to law enforcement unless casino comes out with some definitive leave this woman alone.

i still cant get over that dude "randomly" picking her stack to take from and her not realizing she was missing 15k. That's just very hard to believe, imo

She said and Tom Dwan also said someone at Hustler informed her there's time we're things would go missing around him so it's very possible he's been thriving for awhile and this controversy got him caught.

[dooki667]

if anyone cares she took and passed a lie detector test and gave her phone over to law enforcement unless casino comes out with some definitive leave this woman alone.

i still cant get over that dude "randomly" picking her stack to take from and her not realizing she was missing 15k. That's just very hard to believe, imo

also I'd notice 15 k but there's people playing that game with a million. I mean she gave back 135k and that was around HALF that one pot so 15 k blends in a lil easirr

[Cubbies2120]

if anyone cares she took and passed a lie detector test and gave her phone over to law enforcement unless casino comes out with some definitive leave this woman alone.

i still cant get over that dude "randomly" picking her stack to take from and her not realizing she was missing 15k. That's just very hard to believe, imo

Especially when there was report that he let out a yell when it was confirmed she gave the money back to Garrett.

Also, she claimed "I don't know who that is, never met him" even though they started following each other on social media few weeks prior.

[Quattro]

If I'm innocent, that guy is going to have to literally pull a gun and put it in my face before I give him back 1 dollar of my winnings at the table.