How Do You Grade Troy Weaver?

MortSahlfan · Post #1 » by **MortSahlfan** » Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:15 pm

I know we don't make a definite judgement yet, but out of all the moves he's made, I'd say 4 out of 5 are good ones. Even the not-so-good trades were made into good trades within months, or even minutes! I'm very curious how patient ownership will be to win a title, or come close. We've always won championships building on what we already had, and this is the first time we've "blown it up", but eventually talent has to translate into wins.

I also think with this 3-pt shooting league, and player empowerment, shorter contracts, you see teams that were horrible improve tremendously in a year.. Thibs with the Knicks (Wolves), or Cleveland now, Atlanta going to the ECF, and Memphis out West, and again Minny finally making the playoffs. I give Pat "Never Missed A Playoff" Beverley a lot of credit.

Draft -- he's been very, very good, especially after we were so bad, with the exception of Killian, but I'm a defense-first, team-first kinda guy.
Free Agency -- I thought we overpaid Bagley, and had enough big men, and one who can't shoot or play D isn't appealing.
Trades -- The Plumlee trade wasn't good, but he rectified it by getting Bojan. I also liked getting Hami for Svi, who was on an expiring contract. Duren ~ Jerami Grant. If there's something I can't stand, it's letting a guy go for nothing. Even a 2nd round pick for Drummond was better than nothing. He's been on three minimum contracts, but think he can only thrive off the bench.
Coaching -- Some think, "Oh, we're going to lose anyway, let's keep Casey", but I think it's actually very important that young guys get on the right path, and for a team that's lost so much, Casey hasn't lost the locker room.
Etc. -- Weaver never says anything, but he seems like a good guy.

I give him a B+

Billl · Post #2 » by **Billl** » Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:37 pm

For tearing it all down and quickly rebuilding with talented youngsters? A+ This team is completely unrecognizable from where it was just a couple years ago.

For building a contender? Inc. That's what really matters and we are pretty far away from that still.

Invictus88 · Post #3 » by **Invictus88** » Fri Oct 14, 2022 8:39 pm

I grade Stefanski + Weaver as a B+ for being disciplined/not shooting themselves in the foot w/regards to avoiding big contracts that will hurt our future.

It's kept from an A+ buy some dubious usage of waiving and stretching and obvious favors being doled out in the form of Sirvydis and now Boeheim. Unless someone can tell me what opportunities those actions led to I can only evaluate them on face value; which is suspect.

That said, a B+ in spite of that means they did a bang-up job otherwise. Our future really is bright. Even if some of our draft picks don't pan out we are in a much better position to just roll over into more talent.

I do find it funny that the OP mentions not liking Killian and being a defense-first, team-first kinda guy. With the exception of the last game those were probably the best parts Killian has shown (defense and passing).

Hard not to find parallels with this guy's commenting and guys like bstein. You two will probably be good friends.

MortSahlfan · Post #4 » by **MortSahlfan** » Fri Oct 14, 2022 8:50 pm

Invictus88 wrote:
I do find it funny that the OP mentions not liking Killian and being a defense-first, team-first kinda guy. With the exception of the last game those were probably the best parts Killian has shown (defense and passing).

Hard not to find parallels with this guy's commenting and guys like bstein. You two will probably be good friends.

I don't know who/what you're getting at, but some of you jump to conclusions before my first reply. DESPITE shooting 25%, not even looking to score, not being able to dribble right, having many guards, and despite all that, being the defense-first kinda guy, I wouldn't mind if he's on our team for his entire career - off the bench. I say the same about Stew, although I think he deserves more minutes than Killian, who had a nice game. Stew shouldn't spend all his time on the perimeter shooting 3's, with people wanting him to shoot 8 a game. Last year he would sometimes out-box three guys, which enabled someone else on our team to get the rebound, but too many are stat obsessed, or might not see the game and think, "Stew only had 4 boards, he sucked".

However, drafting him over Haliburton was silly. Many knew this at the time. Both big guards, but Haliburton has been great on both ends, and I think Sacramento was surprised and picked him regardless, and after such a short time, get an all-star for him. A guy crying over being traded AWAY from Sacramento is special, too.

Invictus88 · Post #5 » by **Invictus88** » Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:17 pm

MortSahlfan wrote:
Invictus88 wrote:
I do find it funny that the OP mentions not liking Killian and being a defense-first, team-first kinda guy. With the exception of the last game those were probably the best parts Killian has shown (defense and passing).

Hard not to find parallels with this guy's commenting and guys like bstein. You two will probably be good friends.

I don't know who/what you're getting at, but some of you jump to conclusions before my first reply. DESPITE shooting 25%, not even looking to score, not being able to dribble right, having many guards, and despite all that, being the defense-first kinda guy, I wouldn't mind if he's on our team for his entire career - off the bench. I say the same about Stew, although I think he deserves more minutes than Killian, who had a nice game. Stew shouldn't spend all his time on the perimeter shooting 3's, with people wanting him to shoot 8 a game. Last year he would sometimes out-box three guys, which enabled someone else on our team to get the rebound, but too many are stat obsessed, or might not see the game and think, "Stew only had 4 boards, he sucked".

However, drafting him over Haliburton was silly. Many knew this at the time. Both big guards, but Haliburton has been great on both ends, and I think Sacramento was surprised and picked him regardless, and after such a short time, get an all-star for him. A guy crying over being traded AWAY from Sacramento is special, too.

I don't even... This reply is so meandering in its reasoning that I highly doubt responding to points in a logical manner is an exercise worth having.

kellmellus50 · Post #6 » by **kellmellus50** » Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:22 pm

I'll make this simple he has hit more than he missed,so he gets a passing grade of B+

Now Dumars as GM was a D-

flow · Post #7 » by **flow** » Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:45 pm

kellmellus50 wrote:I'll make this simple he has hit more than he missed,so he gets a passing grade of B+

Now Dumars as GM was a D-

Dumars won a championship. And he did so by accomplishing one of the greatest team-building jobs in league history. For that alone, he gets no lower than a B. Regardless of what happened later.

tmorgan · Post #8 » by **tmorgan** » Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:30 pm

Dumars’ grade plummeted during his tenure. One overall grade makes no sense. He went from A+++ to F over the course of his time as GM.

Banners hang forever.

bstein14 · Post #9 » by **bstein14** » Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:22 am

Weaver's grade largely depends on where his 7 draft picks end up as players. Pretty much how well these guys turn out.

1. Cade (all-star)
2. Ivey (all-star)
3. Duren (good starter)
4. Bey (good starter)
5. Stewart (good starter)
6. Livers (good bench player)
7. Hayes (good bench player)

If 2+ guys on that list end up all-stars for Detroit, if 2+ others end up good starters, and the remaining 3 end up good bench guys that are 6th/7th/8th man type guys then he gets an A.... we don't really have enough info yet, but I assume we'll be able to give him a full grade on those picks in about 1.5 years from now.

It's really all about how he does on all those lottery picks and potentially how he does with our 2023 lottery pick as well.

vege · Post #10 » by **vege** » Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:23 am

tmorgan wrote:Dumars’ grade plummeted during his tenure. One overall grade makes no sense. He went from A+++ to F over the course of his time as GM.

Banners hang forever.

After Mr Davidson died the franchise became a mess, it was not all Dumar's fault, he was terrible tho, especially with the head coaches situation.

As for Weaver, he have done some very dumb stuff, but overall we are in a good position. We can't give him a grade without seeing the team he will assemble whenever he want to win basketball games, right now this team is an F, but could be a championship team in a few years or could be the next Sacramento.

tmorgan · Post #11 » by **tmorgan** » Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:47 am

vege wrote:After Mr Davidson died the franchise became a mess, it was not all Dumar's fault, he was terrible tho, especially with the head coaches situation.

100%.

It’s easiest to remember the Josh Smith, Charlie V and Ben Gordon stuff, but it was the head coaching hires that were the worst part.

Curry
Kuester
Frank
Cheeks

I mean, good lord. Curry and Kuester were horrible and never got another gig. Frank moved to the front office. Cheeks exuded incompetence. Just amazingly bad choices.

buzzkilloton · Post #12 » by **buzzkilloton** » Sat Oct 15, 2022 2:04 am

Grade A+

I cant ask for much better at this point. We have tons of young talent alot of which were extra draft choices Weaver traded for. The future is very bright right now I'd take what we have over alot of NBA teams. Very impressive from starting with a terrible gimpy overpaid Blake to what we have now in a few years.

Most importantly Weaver has us on the perfect timeline. Rather then rush it this offseason like some fans wanted he correctly assessed the strength of the best draft class hes seen as a GM. Now we will be in the race for a generational prospect. Also hes set us up for alot of flexibility when the time comes to put the finishing touches on things in a trade or through free agency.

Post #13 » by **Cowology** » Sat Oct 15, 2022 2:11 am

Incomplete. If it culminates in a championship he get's an A. If not... then he doesn't get an A. *shrug* Not trying to be an ass but winning matters. Results matter.

I trust Weaver to make good decisions. He's earned the benefit of the doubt. Sometimes I think he's less concerned with the details than we are because he's thinking bigger in scope. Weaver really seems to operate with specific targets or goals in mind, and as long as he accomplishes what he set out to do he's not super concerned with some of the minutia.

At the end of the day even the best GM's have a pretty high fail rate, so it really just comes down to a) are you satisfied with the general direction of the franchise and b) are you optimistic about our future?

breezypeezy · Post #14 » by **breezypeezy** » Sat Oct 15, 2022 8:53 am

I like Weaver, I think im gonna like him better when they move Casey to FO and we get a better game manager to run rotations and X&O's, iow's start playing to win!

My grade thus far good building, good direction, but his team struggles to get NBA buckets. Thats gotta change.
Grade currently B with potential to improve to A.

zeebneeb · Post #15 » by **zeebneeb** » Sat Oct 15, 2022 12:04 pm

Obviously a lot rides on what happens in the future, but as it stands right now;

1. Fastest complete overhaul of a roster in league history.

2. Ended up with the first #1 overall since 2000 B.C.

3. Team is loaded with young talent, and high draft picks. (1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 13)

4. The Pistons are relevant again nationally, mentioned on T.V., websites, e.t.c.

5. Hope. Real, tangible hope for the franchise in at least a decade.

Running grade is an A.

Manocad · Post #16 » by **Manocad** » Mon Oct 17, 2022 12:07 pm

zeebneeb wrote:Obviously a lot rides on what happens in the future, but as it stands right now;

1. Fastest complete overhaul of a roster in league history.

2. Ended up with the first #1 overall since 2000 B.C.

3. Team is loaded with young talent, and high draft picks. (1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 13)

4. The Pistons are relevant again nationally, mentioned on T.V., websites, e.t.c.

5. Hope. Real, tangible hope for the franchise in at least a decade.

Running grade is an A.

I'll go with this.

There's only so much a GM can do. At the end of the day the biggest input for team success is the players' performances. I don't think winning a championship is the only way a GM can be given an A grade.

MortSahlfan · Post #17 » by **MortSahlfan** » Tue Oct 18, 2022 2:47 pm

Rob Pelinka won a title, too.. But he's awful.

Dumars was a good GM. After we won a title, besides signing Dice, it was bad move after bad move. Karen has something to do with it. I just saw him on NBA Today yesterday.

bstein14 · Post #18 » by **bstein14** » Tue Oct 18, 2022 3:03 pm

The Pistons hired Weaver a little over 2 years ago. He's essentially gotten 3 full offseasons. We are still projected by every major sports outlet to be a bottom 5 to 7 team in the league again this year.

Joe Dumars took over as GM in 2000, of a team with a superstar in Grant Hill leaving and the team was widely expected to be one of the worst teams in the league. After 3 off seasons with the Pistons Dumars had a roster that included
Ben Wallace (agreed to sign as a FA, but eventually came over in a sign-and-trade for Hill at MLE $ type deal)
Billups (signed to an MLE $ deal)
Prince (drafted with a late first rounder)
Hamilton (traded away Pistons only real asset when Dumars started in Stackhouse to get him)
Okur (2nd round draft pick that became an all-star in this league)

Also hired Rick Carlisle, one of the best young up and coming coaches in the league.

So Weaver has done nothing even close to what Dumars did in his first 3 offseasons, essentialy creating a team good enough team from just Stackhouse, to be in the EC Finals that year against the Nets and to win a championship the following year.

That is an A start to your GM career.... something that Weaver doesn't have at this point even if he's been good and been better than anyone since early Dumars for us.

Post #19 » by **theBigLip** » Tue Oct 18, 2022 3:12 pm

For the time that he has been here, an obvious A. Instead of a horrible roster and a f—ked up balance sheet, we have an entire roster of good players and good contracts (we might disagree on Bagley but I’m optimistic that proves to be a good signing). What else could Weaver have done up to this point? Definitely an A.

That all being said, he has a different job now and will be graded differently. Now it’s how to be “good” and make the playoffs. Which means next year. Nail one more draft and possibly flip some of our vets this year, but most importantly, free agency next summer.

Manocad · Post #20 » by **Manocad** » Tue Oct 18, 2022 3:17 pm

bstein14 wrote:The Pistons hired Weaver a little over 2 years ago. He's essentially gotten 3 full offseasons. We are still projected by every major sports outlet to be a bottom 5 to 7 team in the league again this year.

Joe Dumars took over as GM in 2000, of a team with a superstar in Grant Hill leaving and the team was widely expected to be one of the worst teams in the league. After 3 off seasons with the Pistons Dumars had a roster that included
Ben Wallace (agreed to sign as a FA, but eventually came over in a sign-and-trade for Hill at MLE $ type deal)
Billups (signed to an MLE $ deal)
Prince (drafted with a late first rounder)
Hamilton (traded away Pistons only real asset when Dumars started in Stackhouse to get him)
Okur (2nd round draft pick that became an all-star in this league)

Also hired Rick Carlisle, one of the best young up and coming coaches in the league.

So Weaver has done nothing even close to what Dumars did in his first 3 offseasons, essentialy creating a team good enough team from just Stackhouse, to be in the EC Finals that year against the Nets and to win a championship the following year.

That is an A start to your GM career.... something that Weaver doesn't have at this point even if he's been good and been better than anyone since early Dumars for us.

Which proved to be lightning in a bottle since Dumars couldn't replicate that performance, or anything even close to it, after that team broke up.

It's somewhat of an apples to oranges comparison. Weaver started from a point of not only having no real assets but with a team that needed to be completely broomed out the door. And clearly his goal is to build something from the ground up for sustainable success long term rather than just playing the opportunistic free agency game.