Around The League: 2021-2022 Season 2.0

Murray_17 · Post #981 » by **Murray_17** » Sat Oct 15, 2022 2:47 pm

Spoiler:

So Fultz was justified because he was a consensus pick but Ben was bad because Colangelo should have known better than selecting the consensus pick?
:-?

Eyeamok · Post #982 » by **Eyeamok** » Sat Oct 15, 2022 2:48 pm

76ciology wrote:
Murray_17 wrote:
76ciology wrote:Regarding Colangelo, his biggest F’d up was drafting Ben Simmons. And Ben Simmons was the biggest hurdle for the entire process era prior to Morey’s arrival.

I think drafting Ben was worst. Because BC didn’t learn from Hinkie’s mistakes in drafting guards who can’t shoot and just blindly following the consensus BPA in the draft. Rumor has it that Hinkie was favoring Ingram, and he could have turned it around.

Altho if Fultz never got hurt, we might have been OK. With Fultz playing to his upside to what this Harden version is right now. While still having Roco and Ben at the wings.

And when Fultz didnt pan out. Brand had two opportunities that he missed. First was trading Ben for Kawhi then next is choosing Ben over Jimmy (as per Embiid). The loss from acquiring Ben to holding Ben just compounded.

We’re just lucky that Morey looks to have turned it around.

For now, I’m with the “all of them failed except for Morey” side.

Ainge decided not to draft Fultz, already, after his tryout with Boston was a disaster. Everyone outside of Colangelo put the red lights on him because all his tryout were reportedly bad.

This is basically re-writing history, Colangelo made several moves that were a disaster, the Grant trade? the first and the second he used to get Pasecniks? using Okafor as a way to reduce the salary of the team (yeah there wasn't much to get from Okafor but still)? not to mention the pick used in that trade ended up being the first pick in the second round.

You can argue he improved the team when he added Illyasova and Belinelli. But he got Illyasova back after he traded him for the corpse of Splitter and a pick (which make the Grant trade, even more, lol worthy), and both Belinelli and Illyasova were let got the next off-season because he already was cleaning cap to max Ben.

And this is without even touching the Twitter stuff.

Fultz was justifiable for me given Fultz HS and College sample size should trump his 1-2 hours workout sample size. Fultz description as a prospect is very similar with what Skoot was right now. He’s almost the perfect PG prospect in today’s basketball.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/breaking-down-the-2017-nba-draft-39-s-loaded-guard-crop-6063/

Fultz is a franchise lead guard, future All-Star, and a player any organization can build around. He's best utilized on the ball with shooting around him, as he's a tremendous pick and roll player (30.4% of his offense, 93rd percentile) who can score at all three levels and facilitate with creativity. He's no slouch off the ball either, as he's a capable, yet improving, spot shooter and excellent playing off of closeouts. Fultz also has the size and length to defend twos, and even some threes in smaller lineups. All in all, he's a versatile, plug and play lead guard with star potential who is easy to build around or fit into a current roster. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Markelle-Fultz-90302/ ©DraftExpress

Even Pelton had Fultz second on his warp while he had Tatum at 8th and described him as a generic prospect
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/19638855/ranking-markelle-fultz-lonzo-ball-top-prospects-2017-nba-draft-statistical-projections-kevin-pelton

CNNSI gave us an A+

https://www.si.com/.amp/nba/2017/06/18/trade-grades-draft-sixers-celtics-no-1-pick-markelle-fultz-joel-embiid-picks

Sam Vecenie also gave us an A+

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nba/news/nba-draft-trade-rumors-sixers-celtics-news-markelle-fultz-picks-details-free-agency/1l5pfr8fdzgsc12e0ale1shq2i

And in the end, if you want to play “resulting”.. Fultz trade landed us Maxey

Read on Twitter

If I’d have to do the draft again without the shoulder injury that nobody has foreseen, I’d pick Fultz over Tatum.

But If I’d have to draft in 2016, I’d pick Ingram over Ben. It’s just impossible to win with a PG who can’t shoot and can’t run pick and roll (unlike Fultz who was projected to be elite in both) in today’s PnR heavy basketball.

And you have the corpses of Westbrook, John Wall, MCW and Ben Simmons to back that up

The bottom line with me as far as Fultz goes is Boston comes offering you the #1 pick and you know Isaiah Thomas is injured. Boston your divisional rival offers you the #1 pick!!!. As a GM that should give you pause. Secondly all the pre workouts for Fultz we're not glowing. And when he comes here, by all accounts, the workouts are not great either. That trade should never have been made. Yes we may have lucked out with Maxey. But we could have had Jason Tatum and Romeo Langford...let that sink in. Romeo freaking Langford.

It looks like the trade could workout for both teams , if Maxey keeps on progressing. It's already worked for Boston. If it does workout for the 76ers then they got lucky. Really really lucky.

By the way didn't you love collars as a GM.

the_process · Post #983 » by **the_process** » Sat Oct 15, 2022 2:52 pm

Embiid P wrote:
Sixerscan wrote:They changed some stuff where it doesn’t make sense to do what Hinkie did anyway at this point. They added 60 2 way contracts so there are fewer guys with potential available to churn through. Flattened the lotto odds. Closed up the cap floor loophole that Hinkie probably saved a lot of money doing.

The biggest weirdness I find with all that is people just act like Embiid was always supposed to miss 2 years. If he plays that second year they’re probably in the acceptable bad range.

Agreed 100%. Embiid's setback and requiring a second surgery on his foot is what ultimately led to the league intervening and Hinkie resigning as it caused him to panic and take Okafor which while obviously not panning out for us was understandable at the time.

One could argue that Hinkie shouldn't have taken Okafor regardless of Embiid's health, which is a fair point, but what can't be argued IMO is that he never would have taken Okafor if Embiid was healing properly prior to the 2015 draft.

I think it’s an open question as to whether Hinkie took Okafor of his own volition, or because ownership told him to.

The coup de grace really was Jerry shooting down the Okafor trade to Boston that Hinkie had orchestrated, and then promptly installing his son as “special advisor” or whatever that BS title was.

the_process · Post #984 » by **the_process** » Sat Oct 15, 2022 3:10 pm

76ciology wrote:
Murray_17 wrote:
76ciology wrote:Regarding Colangelo, his biggest F’d up was drafting Ben Simmons. And Ben Simmons was the biggest hurdle for the entire process era prior to Morey’s arrival.

I think drafting Ben was worst. Because BC didn’t learn from Hinkie’s mistakes in drafting guards who can’t shoot and just blindly following the consensus BPA in the draft. Rumor has it that Hinkie was favoring Ingram, and he could have turned it around.

Altho if Fultz never got hurt, we might have been OK. With Fultz playing to his upside to what this Harden version is right now. While still having Roco and Ben at the wings.

And when Fultz didnt pan out. Brand had two opportunities that he missed. First was trading Ben for Kawhi then next is choosing Ben over Jimmy (as per Embiid). The loss from acquiring Ben to holding Ben just compounded.

We’re just lucky that Morey looks to have turned it around.

For now, I’m with the “all of them failed except for Morey” side.

Ainge decided not to draft Fultz, already, after his tryout with Boston was a disaster. Everyone outside of Colangelo put the red lights on him because all his tryout were reportedly bad.

This is basically re-writing history, Colangelo made several moves that were a disaster, the Grant trade? the first and the second he used to get Pasecniks? using Okafor as a way to reduce the salary of the team (yeah there wasn't much to get from Okafor but still)? not to mention the pick used in that trade ended up being the first pick in the second round.

You can argue he improved the team when he added Illyasova and Belinelli. But he got Illyasova back after he traded him for the corpse of Splitter and a pick (which make the Grant trade, even more, lol worthy), and both Belinelli and Illyasova were let got the next off-season because he already was cleaning cap to max Ben.

And this is without even touching the Twitter stuff.

Fultz was justifiable for me given Fultz HS and College sample size should trump his 1-2 hours workout sample size. Fultz description as a prospect is very similar with what Skoot was right now. He’s almost the perfect PG prospect in today’s basketball.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/breaking-down-the-2017-nba-draft-39-s-loaded-guard-crop-6063/

Fultz is a franchise lead guard, future All-Star, and a player any organization can build around. He's best utilized on the ball with shooting around him, as he's a tremendous pick and roll player (30.4% of his offense, 93rd percentile) who can score at all three levels and facilitate with creativity. He's no slouch off the ball either, as he's a capable, yet improving, spot shooter and excellent playing off of closeouts. Fultz also has the size and length to defend twos, and even some threes in smaller lineups. All in all, he's a versatile, plug and play lead guard with star potential who is easy to build around or fit into a current roster. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Markelle-Fultz-90302/ ©DraftExpress

Even Pelton had Fultz second on his warp while he had Tatum at 8th and described him as a generic prospect
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/19638855/ranking-markelle-fultz-lonzo-ball-top-prospects-2017-nba-draft-statistical-projections-kevin-pelton

CNNSI gave us an A+

https://www.si.com/.amp/nba/2017/06/18/trade-grades-draft-sixers-celtics-no-1-pick-markelle-fultz-joel-embiid-picks

Sam Vecenie also gave us an A+

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nba/news/nba-draft-trade-rumors-sixers-celtics-news-markelle-fultz-picks-details-free-agency/1l5pfr8fdzgsc12e0ale1shq2i

And in the end, if you want to play “resulting”.. Fultz trade landed us Maxey

Read on Twitter

If I’d have to do the draft again without the shoulder injury that nobody has foreseen, I’d pick Fultz over Tatum.

But If I’d have to draft in 2016, I’d pick Ingram over Ben. It’s just impossible to win with a PG who can’t shoot and can’t run pick and roll (unlike Fultz who was projected to be elite in both) in today’s PnR heavy basketball.

And you have the corpses of Westbrook, John Wall, MCW and Ben Simmons to back that up

The Sixers got the pick that became Maxey along with Ilyasova in exchange for Jerami Grant.

The Sixers then traded the Maxey pick to ORL for Pickanick Basketts (Anzejs Pasecniks).

The Sixers got the Maxey pick back with Jonathan Simmons for Fultz.

The pick conveyed because of a 3 by Mike Muscala followed by a Tyler Herro miss that clinched a playoff spot for the CP3-led Thunder.

Watch on YouTube

ProcessDoctor · Post #985 » by **ProcessDoctor** » Sat Oct 15, 2022 3:12 pm

I'm surprised a Crowder/Shamet for Robinson/pick trade hasn't happened. Seems to make lots of sense for both parties.

Murray_17 · Post #986 » by **Murray_17** » Sat Oct 15, 2022 3:20 pm

ProcessDoctor wrote:I'm surprised a Crowder/Shamet for Robinson/pick trade hasn't happened. Seems to make lots of sense for both parties.

I actually think that Shamet contract is like 100 times worse than the Duncan Robinson one.

76ciology · Post #987 » by **76ciology** » Sat Oct 15, 2022 4:05 pm

Eyeamok wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Murray_17 wrote:

Ainge decided not to draft Fultz, already, after his tryout with Boston was a disaster. Everyone outside of Colangelo put the red lights on him because all his tryout were reportedly bad.

This is basically re-writing history, Colangelo made several moves that were a disaster, the Grant trade? the first and the second he used to get Pasecniks? using Okafor as a way to reduce the salary of the team (yeah there wasn't much to get from Okafor but still)? not to mention the pick used in that trade ended up being the first pick in the second round.

You can argue he improved the team when he added Illyasova and Belinelli. But he got Illyasova back after he traded him for the corpse of Splitter and a pick (which make the Grant trade, even more, lol worthy), and both Belinelli and Illyasova were let got the next off-season because he already was cleaning cap to max Ben.

And this is without even touching the Twitter stuff.

Fultz was justifiable for me given Fultz HS and College sample size should trump his 1-2 hours workout sample size. Fultz description as a prospect is very similar with what Skoot was right now. He’s almost the perfect PG prospect in today’s basketball.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/breaking-down-the-2017-nba-draft-39-s-loaded-guard-crop-6063/

Fultz is a franchise lead guard, future All-Star, and a player any organization can build around. He's best utilized on the ball with shooting around him, as he's a tremendous pick and roll player (30.4% of his offense, 93rd percentile) who can score at all three levels and facilitate with creativity. He's no slouch off the ball either, as he's a capable, yet improving, spot shooter and excellent playing off of closeouts. Fultz also has the size and length to defend twos, and even some threes in smaller lineups. All in all, he's a versatile, plug and play lead guard with star potential who is easy to build around or fit into a current roster. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Markelle-Fultz-90302/ ©DraftExpress

Even Pelton had Fultz second on his warp while he had Tatum at 8th and described him as a generic prospect
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/19638855/ranking-markelle-fultz-lonzo-ball-top-prospects-2017-nba-draft-statistical-projections-kevin-pelton

CNNSI gave us an A+

https://www.si.com/.amp/nba/2017/06/18/trade-grades-draft-sixers-celtics-no-1-pick-markelle-fultz-joel-embiid-picks

Sam Vecenie also gave us an A+

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nba/news/nba-draft-trade-rumors-sixers-celtics-news-markelle-fultz-picks-details-free-agency/1l5pfr8fdzgsc12e0ale1shq2i

And in the end, if you want to play “resulting”.. Fultz trade landed us Maxey

Read on Twitter

If I’d have to do the draft again without the shoulder injury that nobody has foreseen, I’d pick Fultz over Tatum.

But If I’d have to draft in 2016, I’d pick Ingram over Ben. It’s just impossible to win with a PG who can’t shoot and can’t run pick and roll (unlike Fultz who was projected to be elite in both) in today’s PnR heavy basketball.

And you have the corpses of Westbrook, John Wall, MCW and Ben Simmons to back that up

The bottom line with me as far as Fultz goes is Boston comes offering you the #1 pick and you know Isaiah Thomas is injured. Boston your divisional rival offers you the #1 pick!!!. As a GM that should give you pause. Secondly all the pre workouts for Fultz we're not glowing. And when he comes here, by all accounts, the workouts are not great either. That trade should never have been made. Yes we may have lucked out with Maxey. But we could have had Jason Tatum and Romeo Langford...let that sink in. Romeo freaking Langford.

It looks like the trade could workout for both teams , if Maxey keeps on progressing. It's already worked for Boston. If it does workout for the 76ers then they got lucky. Really really lucky.

By the way didn't you love collars as a GM.

Yes, i did. I also loved Hinkie, im one of his biggest defenders on GB.

I also loved EB, but looking back I didn’t like how he handled Ben. EB should have traded Ben for Kawhi then EB should have choose Jimmy over Ben.

Currently, i dont like any of them except for Morey, who i find did a spectacular job this offseason.

And again, regarding collar..my big issue with him was drafting Ben Simmons, above all else.

Pre draft..

Draftexpress had ingram over ben
Some of us here had ingram over ben
Media were already pointing out that ben was shooting with wrong hand and how ben is next draymond, not next lebron.

And the escalation of commitment on ben compounded to the point when I find we were 50-50 between pushing it through or just completely rebuilding.

..then good thing Rox explode and this Morey-Doc-Harden buy take 2 package was available

76ciology · Post #988 » by **76ciology** » Sat Oct 15, 2022 4:14 pm

Read on Twitter

LloydFree · Post #989 » by **LloydFree** » Sat Oct 15, 2022 5:34 pm

140 million for Jordan Poole is beyond obscene. I hate to think about what the 76ers will have to pay Maxey.

Post #990 » by **Sixerscan** » Sat Oct 15, 2022 5:41 pm

LloydFree wrote:140 million for Jordan Poole is beyond obscene. I hate to think about what the 76ers will have to pay Maxey.

If he takes another step it will probably start with the first 3 letters of his last name

Ramp up to the next TV deal is gonna be nuts, teams are already pricing that in.

the_process · Post #991 » by **the_process** » Sat Oct 15, 2022 11:03 pm

Kinda surprised Wiggins agreed to those numbers on an extension (4-109). He would’ve gotten a lot more than that in FA. Granted it would have probably been from a bad team, but still.

Eyeamok · Post #992 » by **Eyeamok** » Sat Oct 15, 2022 11:59 pm

the_process wrote:
76ciology wrote:
Murray_17 wrote:

Ainge decided not to draft Fultz, already, after his tryout with Boston was a disaster. Everyone outside of Colangelo put the red lights on him because all his tryout were reportedly bad.

This is basically re-writing history, Colangelo made several moves that were a disaster, the Grant trade? the first and the second he used to get Pasecniks? using Okafor as a way to reduce the salary of the team (yeah there wasn't much to get from Okafor but still)? not to mention the pick used in that trade ended up being the first pick in the second round.

You can argue he improved the team when he added Illyasova and Belinelli. But he got Illyasova back after he traded him for the corpse of Splitter and a pick (which make the Grant trade, even more, lol worthy), and both Belinelli and Illyasova were let got the next off-season because he already was cleaning cap to max Ben.

And this is without even touching the Twitter stuff.

Fultz was justifiable for me given Fultz HS and College sample size should trump his 1-2 hours workout sample size. Fultz description as a prospect is very similar with what Skoot was right now. He’s almost the perfect PG prospect in today’s basketball.

http://www.draftexpress.com/article/breaking-down-the-2017-nba-draft-39-s-loaded-guard-crop-6063/

Fultz is a franchise lead guard, future All-Star, and a player any organization can build around. He's best utilized on the ball with shooting around him, as he's a tremendous pick and roll player (30.4% of his offense, 93rd percentile) who can score at all three levels and facilitate with creativity. He's no slouch off the ball either, as he's a capable, yet improving, spot shooter and excellent playing off of closeouts. Fultz also has the size and length to defend twos, and even some threes in smaller lineups. All in all, he's a versatile, plug and play lead guard with star potential who is easy to build around or fit into a current roster. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Markelle-Fultz-90302/ ©DraftExpress

Even Pelton had Fultz second on his warp while he had Tatum at 8th and described him as a generic prospect
https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/19638855/ranking-markelle-fultz-lonzo-ball-top-prospects-2017-nba-draft-statistical-projections-kevin-pelton

CNNSI gave us an A+

https://www.si.com/.amp/nba/2017/06/18/trade-grades-draft-sixers-celtics-no-1-pick-markelle-fultz-joel-embiid-picks

Sam Vecenie also gave us an A+

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/amp/nba/news/nba-draft-trade-rumors-sixers-celtics-news-markelle-fultz-picks-details-free-agency/1l5pfr8fdzgsc12e0ale1shq2i

And in the end, if you want to play “resulting”.. Fultz trade landed us Maxey

Read on Twitter

If I’d have to do the draft again without the shoulder injury that nobody has foreseen, I’d pick Fultz over Tatum.

But If I’d have to draft in 2016, I’d pick Ingram over Ben. It’s just impossible to win with a PG who can’t shoot and can’t run pick and roll (unlike Fultz who was projected to be elite in both) in today’s PnR heavy basketball.

And you have the corpses of Westbrook, John Wall, MCW and Ben Simmons to back that up

The Sixers got the pick that became Maxey along with Ilyasova in exchange for Jerami Grant.

The Sixers then traded the Maxey pick to ORL for Pickanick Basketts (Anzejs Pasecniks).

The Sixers got the Maxey pick back with Jonathan Simmons for Fultz.

The pick conveyed because of a 3 by Mike Muscala followed by a Tyler Herro miss that clinched a playoff spot for the CP3-led Thunder.

Watch on YouTube

Yes Muscala hitting that shot was big. And covid not allowing Maxey to showcase his talents in the NCAA tournament was also massive. But
Not enough credit is given to CP3 for elevating that Thunder team into the position to even be in playoff contention.

Eyeamok · Post #993 » by **Eyeamok** » Sun Oct 16, 2022 12:13 am

LloydFree wrote:140 million for Jordan Poole is beyond obscene. I hate to think about what the 76ers will have to pay Maxey.

Shoot I had no idea. The NFL sold it's rights for 100 billion and the NBA is looking for 75 billion. Yikes. Good for the guys that make it in the NBA, it's hard work getting to this level. Make that money..Never Broke Again might carry some serious weight after the next TV deal.

blargh · Post #994 » by **blargh** » Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:06 am

Sixerscan wrote:
LloydFree wrote:140 million for Jordan Poole is beyond obscene. I hate to think about what the 76ers will have to pay Maxey.

If he takes another step it will probably start with the first 3 letters of his last name

Wasn’t sure which of these two guys you were talking about

blargh · Post #995 » by **blargh** » Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:14 am

76ciology wrote:And again, regarding collar..my big issue with him was drafting Ben Simmons, above all else.

Pre draft..

Draftexpress had ingram over ben
Some of us here had ingram over ben
Media were already pointing out that ben was shooting with wrong hand and how ben is next draymond, not next

Drafting Simmons over Ingram was an error, but it wasn’t a colossal mistake. If we really wanted to roll back that decision, LA would have swapped us Ingram for Simmons probably the entire time he was there.

Really, nothing about Simmons cost us any championship win probability until we kept him over Butler.

GoSixersBro · Post #996 » by **GoSixersBro** » Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:28 am

76ciology wrote:Isaiah Stewart and Andre Drummond are shooting 3s now? Who else did i miss?

Ben Simmons, oh wait, never nevermind.

76ciology · Post #997 » by **76ciology** » Sun Oct 16, 2022 4:10 am

Eyeamok wrote:
LloydFree wrote:140 million for Jordan Poole is beyond obscene. I hate to think about what the 76ers will have to pay Maxey.

Shoot I had no idea. The NFL sold it's rights for 100 billion and the NBA is looking for 75 billion. Yikes. Good for the guys that make it in the NBA, it's hard work getting to this level. Make that money..Never Broke Again might carry some serious weight after the next TV deal.

Maxey is also under Klutch. So.. max money

Wilfried · Post #998 » by **Wilfried** » Sun Oct 16, 2022 7:15 am

60% of Boston's attempts against Toronto last friday were 3-point attempts (they made 35%).

I really don't know if I can watch such games anymore

76ciology · Post #999 » by **76ciology** » Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:48 am

Wilfried wrote:60% of Boston's attempts against Toronto last friday were 3-point attempts (they made 35%).

I really don't know if I can watch such games anymore

Because Raps defense can switch anything and expose Tatum and Brown.

This is the problem with going wing heavy.

Kobblehead · Post #1000 » by **Kobblehead** » Sun Oct 16, 2022 1:27 pm

Basketball contracts are just insane. Jordan Poole is an immensely skilled player, but does he have all the other things that the typical franchise player has, that make them worth the investment? Time will tell, I guess.