Duren a starter? How to make it work?

IAmKrazy2 · Post #1 » by **IAmKrazy2** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:11 am

I feel after the first game Duren has a chance to work himself into the starting five maybe even fairly early in the season. Another few games like he had against the Magic, it would be hard not to start him.

IMO, there is a few options to make this work. Especially w/ MBIII out for a while.

Option One (my preference)
1. Cade
2. Ivey
3. Boj
4, Stu
5. Duren

This option gives us defense, and allows Boj to play the 3 spot. Boj will also struggle against a strong PF on D is and not a strong rebounder in the 4 spot. He is better suited to play SF. This also allows Bey to come off the bench where i feel he is better suited. We got a glimpse of the Stu/Duren lineup end of the Magic game and a lot to like IMO

Option Two
1. Cade
2. Ivey
3. Bey
4. Boj
5. Duren

This allows Stu to play off the bench and allows us to put another shooter in the starting lineup in Bey.

We could also consider a lineup w/ Boj coming off the bench but with his shooting and experience, I think this would be a poor choice.

When MBIII is back we have some more options too.

Thoughts? Think he is ready to start now or soon?

tmorgan · Post #2 » by **tmorgan** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:14 am

My only thought is that this team doesn’t need Bagley, and giving him that 3/37.5 deal is the single biggest mistake Weaver has made. And there haven’t been many others. My #2 is donating Bruce Brown for next to nothing.

Manocad · Post #3 » by **Manocad** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:20 am

How to make it work? Start him. And BB and Bey should not be on the floor together. That's too much of a defensive lapse in the front court. And I honestly don't care which one of them starts at the 3, but they'd better be getting open for outside shots given how Cade and Ivey can collapse defenses into the lane.

Billl · Post #4 » by **Billl** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:26 am

eh - probably not yet. He was great tonight, but he's likely to have a bunch of nights where he picks up a foul every 2 minutes.

Manocad · Post #5 » by **Manocad** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:32 am

tmorgan wrote:My only thought is that this team doesn’t need Bagley, and giving him that 3/37.5 deal is the single biggest mistake Weaver has made. And there haven’t been many others. My #2 is donating Bruce Brown for next to nothing.

If Duren winds up being the starting center, I think Bagley will fit well as the bench center. I think he's a good post player and not as weak defensively--at least not in capability--as others think he is. If he can put up 12/7 in 20-25 mpg on 50+% with a block or a steal here and there he'll be well worth his salary.

Liqourish · Post #6 » by **Liqourish** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:34 am

Can't start 8/9 guys. Depth is not a bad thing. I'd keep Duren off the bench for now.

bstein14 · Post #7 » by **bstein14** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:36 am

Let him get the benefit of playing against mostly backups for the first few months of his career.... If we have a decent offer for BB at the deadline and we want to cash in, we can then make that trade and move Duren into the starting role. Also in part because we're already starting a rookie in Ivey.

Great first game, but I'm fine with him getting comfortable in the league off the bench for the first half of his rookie season... and then if he's earning it move him into that starting lineup in early 2023.

And yes, with Duren and then Livers also back Bagley seems a bit unneeded at the moment.... BUT that spot does open back up if BB gets moved at the deadline for an asset which might be Weaver's game plan. If we keep BB and then resign him in the offseason then the Bagley signing is a head scratcher for sure.

I do like Bojan's veteran presence and high bball IQ in the starting lineup, and we'll get a similar type of high IQ making the right play for teammates player in Livers once he's ready to go with the bench unit.

Manocad · Post #8 » by **Manocad** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 2:46 am

How are BB and Livers being on the team make Bagley unneeded? Bagley is a CENTER. Well, if you want him to play where his strengths are, anyway. He can score in the paint, and well. That's not what BB or Livers do.

bstein14 · Post #9 » by **bstein14** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 3:16 am

Manocad wrote:How are BB and Livers being on the team make Bagley unneeded? Bagley is a CENTER. Well, if you want him to play where his strengths are, anyway. He can score in the paint, and well. That's not what BB or Livers do.

He's played plenty of PF in his career. Having 100% of the PF minutes taken up by other players limits his ability to get on the floor to a degree.

If BB is the starting PF and Stewart is the starting C, don't you see how that impacts minutes for Bagley? If Duren is going to earn those backup C minutes that leaves 0 minutes for Bagley at backup C... Now if BB or Livers wasn't here and you could shift players around a bit that could open up minutes for Bagley.

Manocad · Post #10 » by **Manocad** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 3:26 am

bstein14 wrote:
Manocad wrote:How are BB and Livers being on the team make Bagley unneeded? Bagley is a CENTER. Well, if you want him to play where his strengths are, anyway. He can score in the paint, and well. That's not what BB or Livers do.

He's played plenty of PF in his career. Having 100% of the PF minutes taken up by other players limits his ability to get on the floor to a degree.

If BB is the starting PF and Stewart is the starting C, don't you see how that impacts minutes for Bagley? If Duren is going to earn those backup C minutes that leaves 0 minutes for Bagley at backup C... Now if BB or Livers wasn't here and you could shift players around a bit that could open up minutes for Bagley.

Disregard the position labels since centers have been called power forwards (James Edwards) and vice versa (Big Ben) for years. Stew is not and IMO will not be this team's traditional center; I think that ultimately is Duren's job. Bagley's strength is playing in the post which BB doesn't do nor does Livers. Calling BB and Livers power forwards while also calling Bagley a power forward means nothing; they clearly don't play the same positions in reality. BB is a 3 point sniper; are you really saying he plays the same role as Bagley?

bstein14 · Post #11 » by **bstein14** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 3:34 am

Manocad wrote:
bstein14 wrote:
Manocad wrote:How are BB and Livers being on the team make Bagley unneeded? Bagley is a CENTER. Well, if you want him to play where his strengths are, anyway. He can score in the paint, and well. That's not what BB or Livers do.

He's played plenty of PF in his career. Having 100% of the PF minutes taken up by other players limits his ability to get on the floor to a degree.

If BB is the starting PF and Stewart is the starting C, don't you see how that impacts minutes for Bagley? If Duren is going to earn those backup C minutes that leaves 0 minutes for Bagley at backup C... Now if BB or Livers wasn't here and you could shift players around a bit that could open up minutes for Bagley.

Disregard the position labels since centers have been called power forwards (James Edwards) and vice versa (Big Ben) for years. Stew is not and IMO will not be this team's traditional center; I think that ultimately is Duren's job. Bagley's strength is playing in the post which BB doesn't do nor does Livers. Calling BB and Livers power forwards while also calling Bagley a power forward means nothing; they clearly don't play the same positions in reality. BB is a 3 point sniper; are you really saying he plays the same role as Bagley?

Bagley isn't beating out Stewart for minutes so Stewart is playing center for as long as BB is here.... therefore, BB being here takes minutes away from Bagley at whatever position you want him to play. Same thing goes for Duren being better than Bagley as an 18 year old kid.

Bagley is going to have a hard time coming in and getting minutes unless he took a decent step forward from last season. We're more crowded than before because we know Casey loves what Livers also brings to the table.

Post #12 » by **theBigLip** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 3:42 am

One thing is clear - Duran isn’t spending any time in the GLeague.

Manocad · Post #13 » by **Manocad** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 3:57 am

bstein14 wrote:
Manocad wrote:
bstein14 wrote:
He's played plenty of PF in his career. Having 100% of the PF minutes taken up by other players limits his ability to get on the floor to a degree.

If BB is the starting PF and Stewart is the starting C, don't you see how that impacts minutes for Bagley? If Duren is going to earn those backup C minutes that leaves 0 minutes for Bagley at backup C... Now if BB or Livers wasn't here and you could shift players around a bit that could open up minutes for Bagley.

Disregard the position labels since centers have been called power forwards (James Edwards) and vice versa (Big Ben) for years. Stew is not and IMO will not be this team's traditional center; I think that ultimately is Duren's job. Bagley's strength is playing in the post which BB doesn't do nor does Livers. Calling BB and Livers power forwards while also calling Bagley a power forward means nothing; they clearly don't play the same positions in reality. BB is a 3 point sniper; are you really saying he plays the same role as Bagley?

Bagley isn't beating out Stewart for minutes so Stewart is playing center for as long as BB is here.... therefore, BB being here takes minutes away from Bagley at whatever position you want him to play. Same thing goes for Duren being better than Bagley as an 18 year old kid.

Bagley is going to have a hard time coming in and getting minutes unless he took a decent step forward from last season. We're more crowded than before because we know Casey loves what Livers also brings to the table.

Neither BB nor Livers play the same ACTUAL POSITION ON THE FLOOR that Bagley plays. They don't play in the paint and don't guard the paint which is what Bagley does. Stew plays in the paint on defense but certainly not on offense, so I don't think they're competing against each other either. Especially if Stew moves to a true PF role with Duren starting at center. Then the logjam is in the Bey/BB/Livers area--which really is more hybrid SF/PF--not true post players.

The fact remains that of what I'll call the "top 10" players on the roster, there are two players who play center in as close to a traditional sense as can be found on this team--Duren and Bagley. Thus I don't think Bagley is competing against BB and Livers for minutes at all.

I mean, unless you're asserting that Weaver is an idiot and signed Bagley to that contract assuming he'd be redundant since Livers was already on the team, and then added BB for some more redundancy to boot. Like I always say, I don't claim to know better than Weaver does so I'll bank on the possibility that JUST MAYBE there's a different plan for Bagley than to be redundant behind BB and Livers.

Manocad · Post #14 » by **Manocad** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 3:59 am

theBigLip wrote:One thing is clear - Duran isn’t spending any time in the GLeague.

Nope. He's going to join his twin brother and form an 80's prog rock band.

Post #15 » by **theBigLip** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 4:14 am

Manocad wrote:
theBigLip wrote:One thing is clear - Duran isn’t spending any time in the GLeague.

Nope. He's going to join his twin brother and form an 80's prog rock band.

Maybe Duren won't be spending anytime there either...

coolness · Post #16 » by **coolness** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 4:46 am

Manocad wrote:How are BB and Livers being on the team make Bagley unneeded? Bagley is a CENTER. Well, if you want him to play where his strengths are, anyway. He can score in the paint, and well. That's not what BB or Livers do.

Curious if you think Banchero would be at his best as a center?

ComboGuardCity · Post #17 » by **ComboGuardCity** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 5:16 am

He’s 18 and I think the marginal benefit of him starting vs not isn’t a whole lot. As long as he gets 20-25 minutes I’m not sure it matters.

tmorgan · Post #18 » by **tmorgan** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 8:05 am

We don’t need to start Duren yet.

Bagley is a center on offense. His range is suspect, he’s a good rebounder and lob threat. The problem is you can’t play him at center without cratering your defense, because his awareness for help D is almost zero. That is the conundrum of Marvin Bagley.

buzzkilloton · Post #19 » by **buzzkilloton** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 8:23 am

I think keeping him on the bench early on is the play. Young physical bigs like him often find themselves in foul trouble. Hes going to get minutes if he keeps playing like he is tonight he will get in the starting lineup.

vege · Post #20 » by **vege** » Thu Oct 20, 2022 9:15 am

I think Duren should start and Stewart should finish games. Bagley should not be in the rotation at all. He is BAD. I am also not sure if Bey deserves to be starting. He's been trying to do too much, and he has been terrible.

Duren / Stewart
BB / Bey
Livers / Burks (or vice versa)
Ivey / CoJo (yes he have earned that spot with preseason and this game imo)
Cade / Hayes

To be honest, Hayes was bad on offense in our first game, but he made Duren's life super easy with some good chemistry between them, and they both did great things on defense, so it would be good for both of them, if they continue to play minutes together, on the other hand, Duren would also make Cade and Ivey's life easier, since he can grab a pass and Stewart can't, and he can rebound and he is a good passer, which will enable a few fast breaks for Ivey.