Wolves vs. OKC 10-23-2022

[shrink]

People talk about who is happiest that we added Gobert. Is it DLo? KAT? Finch?

I just thought of someone else who might be at the top of the list. Jim Peterson.

[Calinks]

Ant's got to have the right mindset though, he gets blinders sometimes or is looking to get his
but yeah, team runs smoothly when he's breaking down guys and collapsing the defense and starts kicking it

It's a guard's game. WE have to have Ant be our best scorer, the NBA isn't built for bigs to carry you on offense. One of the reasons the Sixers keep flopping. Embiid is amazing but the game needs him to be Robin when it comes to scoring.

WHY? I don't understand this. If you have a big who scores efficiently why does he need to be Robin?

The way the game is officiated and ran. Yuor big can get murdered, mucked up, slowed down, disrupted, life is just harder on them to score. Your elite guard can create their own shot off the dribble or attack like a bib but they will get whistles and bailed out. The Towsn, Ebiids, and Jokics get clawed, hacked, and kicked to death and are expected to play through. Steph Curry gets disrupted like that he's at the line. The game caters to guards and having an elite guard is better than having an elite big. Ideally, you want both but you almost have to have the guard to go far IMO.

[Murphs56]

How many alley-oops to Gobert have we had so far? Has it reached the entire amount from last season?

[Murphs56]

I do like him and think he can play a nice role but people need to stop saying Forbes is a Beasley replacement. They are not the same volume of shooter. I know Beasley was frustrating but people vastly underestimated how hard his job was. High volume three point shooters are not easy to find and they are streaky as hell because its a really hard role. You have to take almost only threes, a ton of them, and you get limited game time. Forbes can do that in bits but it wont be close to what Beasley could do, the positive trade-off is you wont suffer through those slumps.

Yeah it's definitely the case. Beasley had a defined role off the bench. Forbes is not going to be getting consistent minutes so you're asking someone who's going to playing sporadically to shoot lights out. Not going to happen. Prince and Nowell are going to have to be those guys.

[younggunsmn]

I do like him and think he can play a nice role but people need to stop saying Forbes is a Beasley replacement. They are not the same volume of shooter. I know Beasley was frustrating but people vastly underestimated how hard his job was. High volume three point shooters are not easy to find and they are streaky as hell because its a really hard role. You have to take almost only threes, a ton of them, and you get limited game time. Forbes can do that in bits but it wont be close to what Beasley could do, the positive trade-off is you wont suffer through those slumps.

Yeah it's definitely the case. Beasley had a defined role off the bench. Forbes is not going to be getting consistent minutes so you're asking someone who's going to playing sporadically to shoot lights out. Not going to happen. Prince and Nowell are going to have to be those guys.

I don't buy the volume argument, it doesnt hold water.
Last year Beasley shot 37.7% on 1 3 point attempt every 3 minutes played.
Nowell shot 39.4% on 1 3 point attempt every 6 minutes played.
Nowell shot 10% better on 2 point attempts and got to the line at 3X the rate of Beasley.

Beasley had a quick release, but he couldn't do anything but shoot threes.
He couldn't attack a close out, get to the line, or create for teammates. He had one quiver in his arrow.

Nowell has shown some ability to do those 3 things, which is why I like him better than Beasley.
When a guy takes 10 shots a game and 8 of them are 3's, either he's completely one-dimensional or he is chucking a lot.
We've had 3-point specialists in the past like Anthony Peeler and Fred Hoiberg, and generally we were more successful the more those guys could also contribute in other areas.

Forbes hasn't shown me much yet. He will probably have games this year where he comes off the bench and hits 5 or 6 3's.
He seems to be undersized and quite a liability on the defensive end.

You are right though, I think we are going to have to rely on Prince, Nowell, Kyle Anderson, and Naz as 3-point shooting roleplayers
who hopefully can contribute more in other areas than we got from Beasley last year.

Also remember, this years team is different than last years with the addition of Gobert in that we have someone who creates rim gravity and is maybe the most effect screen setter in the league. It's going to take guys a bit to learn how to take advantage of that.
Like tonight Ant waiting for the re-screen from Rudy and ending up with a walk-in layup.

[younggunsmn]

I know we assumed they would stagger Kat and Rudy, but tonight's positive results from the Naz-Prince-Ant-JMac unit has me thinking maybe we should sub Kat And Rudy as a unit so they can develop some chemistry when we are playing some of these small ball 2nd units.

[winforlose]

I know we assumed they would stagger Kat and Rudy, but tonight's positive results from the Naz-Prince-Ant-JMac unit has me thinking maybe we should sub Kat And Rudy as a unit so they can develop some chemistry when we are playing some of these small ball 2nd units.

This is a question not a statement. Does that lineup get any run with Anderson healthy? I am not judging it as it does intrigue me under the right conditions. But listening to Finch post game, I don’t see him rewarding Naz with minutes no matter how well he plays.

[winforlose]

I do like him and think he can play a nice role but people need to stop saying Forbes is a Beasley replacement. They are not the same volume of shooter. I know Beasley was frustrating but people vastly underestimated how hard his job was. High volume three point shooters are not easy to find and they are streaky as hell because its a really hard role. You have to take almost only threes, a ton of them, and you get limited game time. Forbes can do that in bits but it wont be close to what Beasley could do, the positive trade-off is you wont suffer through those slumps.

Yeah it's definitely the case. Beasley had a defined role off the bench. Forbes is not going to be getting consistent minutes so you're asking someone who's going to playing sporadically to shoot lights out. Not going to happen. Prince and Nowell are going to have to be those guys.

I don't buy the volume argument, it doesnt hold water.
Last year Beasley shot 37.7% on 1 3 point attempt every 3 minutes played.
Nowell shot 39.4% on 1 3 point attempt every 6 minutes played.
Nowell shot 10% better on 2 point attempts and got to the line at 3X the rate of Beasley.

Beasley had a quick release, but he couldn't do anything but shoot threes.
He couldn't attack a close out, get to the line, or create for teammates. He had one quiver in his arrow.

Nowell has shown some ability to do those 3 things, which is why I like him better than Beasley.
When a guy takes 10 shots a game and 8 of them are 3's, either he's completely one-dimensional or he is chucking a lot.
We've had 3-point specialists in the past like Anthony Peeler and Fred Hoiberg, and generally we were more successful the more those guys could also contribute in other areas.

Forbes hasn't shown me much yet. He will probably have games this year where he comes off the bench and hits 5 or 6 3's.
He seems to be undersized and quite a liability on the defensive end.

You are right though, I think we are going to have to rely on Prince, Nowell, Kyle Anderson, and Naz as 3-point shooting roleplayers
who hopefully can contribute more in other areas than we got from Beasley last year.

Also remember, this years team is different than last years with the addition of Gobert in that we have someone who creates rim gravity and is maybe the most effect screen setter in the league. It's going to take guys a bit to learn how to take advantage of that.
Like tonight Ant waiting for the re-screen from Rudy and ending up with a walk-in layup.

3s are valuable, but for me the more important thing is shooting efficiency. Take the number of points scored divided by the number of shots taken and that is your efficiency. Nowell was consistently higher than Beasley. I know this is an oversimplification, but it is a good starting point for this discussion.

[KGdaBom]

It's a guard's game. WE have to have Ant be our best scorer, the NBA isn't built for bigs to carry you on offense. One of the reasons the Sixers keep flopping. Embiid is amazing but the game needs him to be Robin when it comes to scoring.

WHY? I don't understand this. If you have a big who scores efficiently why does he need to be Robin?

The way the game is officiated and ran. Yuor big can get murdered, mucked up, slowed down, disrupted, life is just harder on them to score. Your elite guard can create their own shot off the dribble or attack like a bib but they will get whistles and bailed out. The Towsn, Ebiids, and Jokics get clawed, hacked, and kicked to death and are expected to play through. Steph Curry gets disrupted like that he's at the line. The game caters to guards and having an elite guard is better than having an elite big. Ideally, you want both but you almost have to have the guard to go far IMO.

You answered why it's harder for bigs, but Towns still scores efficiently, Jokic scores efficiently, Embiid scores efficiently. As long as they score efficiently despite the unfairness of the refs they can still be Batman.

[winforlose]

WHY? I don't understand this. If you have a big who scores efficiently why does he need to be Robin?

The way the game is officiated and ran. Yuor big can get murdered, mucked up, slowed down, disrupted, life is just harder on them to score. Your elite guard can create their own shot off the dribble or attack like a bib but they will get whistles and bailed out. The Towsn, Ebiids, and Jokics get clawed, hacked, and kicked to death and are expected to play through. Steph Curry gets disrupted like that he's at the line. The game caters to guards and having an elite guard is better than having an elite big. Ideally, you want both but you almost have to have the guard to go far IMO.

You answered why it's harder for bigs, but Towns still scores efficiently, Jokic scores efficiently, Embiid scores efficiently. As long as they score efficiently despite the unfairness of the refs they can still be Batman.

This, plus when the refs favor them (Embiid for example,) they are a lot more like Superman.

[shrink]

Last year Beasley shot 37.7% on 1 3 point attempt every 3 minutes played.
Nowell shot 39.4% on 1 3 point attempt every 6 minutes played.

I appreciate seeing this simplified like this.

Both Beasley and Nowell shot a certain percentage of easier, wide open three’s, but clearly if Beasley is taking twice as many three’s, he is taking many harder shots. A 1.7% difference tells me Beasley is a much better shooter.

The question becomes .. which is more valuable with that second shot in 6 minutes? Is it Beasley shooting a three (probably at less than 37%) and the spacing it creates? Or is it what Nowell would do with the second shot that isn’t a 3? Driving or a spot up 2?

Of course, this is just talking about the offense possession. Both were pretty bad defensively, but if they contribute elsewhere, that could tip the scales.

[Calinks]

WHY? I don't understand this. If you have a big who scores efficiently why does he need to be Robin?

The way the game is officiated and ran. Yuor big can get murdered, mucked up, slowed down, disrupted, life is just harder on them to score. Your elite guard can create their own shot off the dribble or attack like a bib but they will get whistles and bailed out. The Towsn, Ebiids, and Jokics get clawed, hacked, and kicked to death and are expected to play through. Steph Curry gets disrupted like that he's at the line. The game caters to guards and having an elite guard is better than having an elite big. Ideally, you want both but you almost have to have the guard to go far IMO.

You answered why it's harder for bigs, but Towns still scores efficiently, Jokic scores efficiently, Embiid scores efficiently. As long as they score efficiently despite the unfairness of the refs they can still be Batman.

I just don't think its best to have them be Batman if you are trying to win a ring. Someone can make it work, especially if they have a VERY talented team but I think the path to a title is far easier if your batman is a guard/wing.

[Dewey]

This team needs some time … players need to adjust/adapt same as coaches. Eventually Finch will find the balance, rotations, etc..

Keep focus on ball movement, defense, and team effort … players are willing and able or weeded out.

[KGdaBom]

The way the game is officiated and ran. Yuor big can get murdered, mucked up, slowed down, disrupted, life is just harder on them to score. Your elite guard can create their own shot off the dribble or attack like a bib but they will get whistles and bailed out. The Towsn, Ebiids, and Jokics get clawed, hacked, and kicked to death and are expected to play through. Steph Curry gets disrupted like that he's at the line. The game caters to guards and having an elite guard is better than having an elite big. Ideally, you want both but you almost have to have the guard to go far IMO.

You answered why it's harder for bigs, but Towns still scores efficiently, Jokic scores efficiently, Embiid scores efficiently. As long as they score efficiently despite the unfairness of the refs they can still be Batman.

I just don't think its best to have them be Batman if you are trying to win a ring. Someone can make it work, especially if they have a VERY talented team but I think the path to a title is far easier if your batman is a guard/wing.

Once again if the Big is scoring more efficiently than the guard/wing why?

[life_saver]

Only have been able to catch glimpses of matches so far this season. I think this team will need quite some time to gel. Especially defensively, it seems like schematically we have made a U-term from last season as Wolves have gone from using High-wall approach last season to drop scheme now with Gobert...they also seem to switch to high-wall when Gobert is on bench and KAT is playing as 5. So I certainly think it will take some time for players to adapt to using both the schemes within same game. Offensively, KAT's shot attempts need to go up. The team also has shot terribly from 3 so far..so all things considered, 2-1 is a fair start.

[KGdaBom]

Only have been able to catch glimpses of matches so far this season. I think this team will need quite some time to gel. Especially defensively, it seems like schematically we have made a U-term from last season as Wolves have gone from using High-wall approach last season to drop scheme now with Gobert...they also seem to switch to high-wall when Gobert is on bench and KAT is playing as 5. So I certainly think it will take some time for players to adapt to using both the schemes within same game. Offensively, KAT's shot attempts need to go up. The team also has shot terribly from 3 so far..so all things considered, 2-1 is a fair start.

Once the 3s start to fall and they will we will be burying opponents.

[Blazing_royale]

I was curious what's with KAT? his numbers has been down all across the board

[Colbinii]

I was curious what's with KAT? his numbers has been down all across the board

Its been 3 games and he is adapting to playing PF.

[winforlose]

I was curious what's with KAT? his numbers has been down all across the board

Its been 3 games and he is adapting to playing PF.

Also Rudy is averaging 18 boards. That means that KAT has fewer to grab. When Ant and MCD are also rebounding that makes them even fewer still. Limited resource being shared by the team. Assists are more a function of guys hitting their shots. Assists will come as we get deeper into the season and guys are in better rhythm both with the scheme, their cardio, and their shot (mechanics, wind, ect…) Points are down due to rust, adjusting to weight change, shooting less, and adjusting to PF.

[shrink]

I was curious what's with KAT? his numbers has been down all across the board

Also he has been focused on making Gobert happy.

I believe in his first game, he had five assists in the first quarter. In the first half, Gobert had taken nine shots and KAT only two.

Things will balance out, but right now, Towns is working hard (too hard) to not be the selfish star player when a new star arrives.