GT: Nets @ Memphis Grizzly's - 10/24 8:00PM EST

[MrDollarBills]

It's painfully obvious that Joe Harris should start over Ben Simmons right now but I doubt Nash will ever realize it.

And there's nothing wrong with him coming in as a 6th man, We need spacing in both the 1st and 2nd units. Starting Harris immediately makes Unit 1 unguardable, Simmons at PG/C in Unit 2 allows him to play with 4 shooters.

Nash is an idiot though, so I expect this crap to continue on to the team's detriment.

[Minnamaker]

I just don't see it working with Ben as a starter. He has more fouls than he does FGAs and the lanes are clogged. We need to play him towards his strengths.

I think we need to play small in our second unit with Ben being point center. I'd start:

Kyrie/Royce/Harris/KD/Claxton

2nd unit: Simmons/Mills/Yuta/Morris with one of KD or Kyrie

Surround Ben with four guys that can shoot and let him operate as the primary ball handler. Simmons and Claxton together is not working.

This lineup would actually make too much sense.

Imagine a smallball fast-pace second unit with Ben, Curry, Mills, Morris and X (KD). Enough size to be able to contest on defense and the sky is the limit on offense... in theory.

[MrDollarBills]

I just don't see it working with Ben as a starter. He has more fouls than he does FGAs and the lanes are clogged. We need to play him towards his strengths.

I think we need to play small in our second unit with Ben being point center. I'd start:

Kyrie/Royce/Harris/KD/Claxton

2nd unit: Simmons/Mills/Yuta/Morris with one of KD or Kyrie

Surround Ben with four guys that can shoot and let him operate as the primary ball handler. Simmons and Claxton together is not working.

This lineup would actually make too much sense.

Imagine a smallball fast-pace second unit with Ben, Curry, Mills, Morris and X (KD). Enough size to be able to contest on defense and the sky is the limit on offense... in theory.

Exactly. It makes the team better and makes the 2nd unit absolutely a tough cover.

[ChuckS]

It's painfully obvious that Joe Harris should start over Ben Simmons right now but I doubt Nash will ever realize it.

And there's nothing wrong with him coming in as a 6th man, We need spacing in both the 1st and 2nd units. Starting Harris immediately makes Unit 1 unguardable, Simmons at PG/C in Unit 2 allows him to play with 4 shooters.

Nash is an idiot though, so I expect this crap to continue on to the team's detriment.

I admit it. I didn't know where to start after this game. But I think you hit on one. Harris is the best option, I think, for his defensive size. But if for some reason his touch is off we could still sub with Curry, and (I'm hoping) TJ, and still have enough shooters on the 2d unit. I like it. I just hope it doesn't hurt Ben's confidence because I think he will eventually bounce back. Actually, this might even help. Kerr did this with Iguodala who accepted it and thrived. And Kerr was smart. When he had to revert and start Dre in the finals to stop LeBron, the guy wound up being MVP.

I can't argue with you about Nash either. But for a part of five years of my work life I had to defend fellow employees on adverse actions. It's just alien for me to want someone fired. But, as I recently hinted at, I thought last years decisions and coaching were bad, particularly in the playoffs. It should be easy to attack a defense that is doubling KAI and KD, adding traps to the latter. Kevin's smart. But sometime you need help from coaching adjustments. He did everything in Basketball 101 by being our leader in assists, and in one game trying to score less and just being a defensive magnet. Bruce Brown doesn't get 26 points against a team like Boston if his man isn't on KD. And Kevin still was high points man in two of the four games, if on lower efficiency.

But back to Nash. I thought we were much better with D'Antoni and Udoke, and our offense is showing improvement with this new assistant on offense. Would it help, if we are going to keep him, to get a great defensive mind in here as an assistant. I just read an interesting article in the "Athletic" (via the NY Times) where Kerr speaks to the value of assistants. He admits to mistakes when he first took over, and lacking knowledge of basic coaching techniques, that Mike Brown helped him with, particularly appreciating the depth of Mike's defensive genius. Did Ron Adams retire from GS, and if he did can we pay him enough to come back for a year? If not, there should be somebody/anybody out there better than what we now have.

[Papi_swav]

Ben Simmons forgot how to play basketball

[therealbig3]

Ben Simmons sucks. Just can't do anything of value at the end of the day with such a bad offensive player, no matter what happens in the RS.

Was in denial about it when we first acquired him, thinking his defense and his passing would still make him a net positive, but this is how he's been his whole career. His All-Star appearances are kind of a joke...against a real defense, certainly in the playoffs, he becomes a complete non-factor because he just can't or won't score, and he's terrified of having to go to the free throw line or have to hit a jump shot.

I'd look to trade him as soon as possible.

[ChuckS]

Nash is the worst head coach in the league. Jacque Vaughn is worse assistant head coach.

Every game the team in unprepared and doesn't have a clue what to do. Team never has a real game plan and makes ZERO adjustments during the game. He didn't even know that rolling the ball bleeds clock but not the shot clock... WHAT THE F****?!!

Sean Marks saw Sharpe get dominated by centers in the summer league and thought he'd be fine against real players! Is he blind? Was he on vacation or did he thought he'd get fired once KD asked for him gone?? He also knows Ben NEEDS spacing to have any chance at being successful but instead was cool not getting a stretch 5.

Joe Tsai can't be happy about what is happening and if he is then this franchise is doomed. Nothing has changed from last season. This is a sinking ship with no leadership(in the front office or on the floor).

I'm pretty much done until changes are made. Will be fading the Nets vs any good team.

You bring up something, that I didn't notice anyone else mentioning, that really worried me in the summer league. I had seen it often even during the season. It seemed like a layup drill against our interior defense. I thought if it is happening even with our G League players it might be an organizational problem which would continue into the new season. I expected a fix and had a few hopes during the summer, but maybe because of the total chaos nothing happened. I still haven't given up hopes for something after January 15th when there will be more trade options. I just worry about what we have to give up ultimately hurting us. We only have a few players able to balance the salaries and I like all of them. There are a few free agent options left who might help but no one seems to like them.

I realize that it is not easy with our salary cap and luxury tax limitations, and the least expensive best options getting $10-15 mil plus. I later thought that Sharpe might be OK when needed in reserve behind Nic, because he looked good against the great T-Wolves' twin towers, even though that was the first game they played together. I figured maybe with his decent length, at 265 pounds, and a good rebounder, he could be our inexpensive solution. I'm just not expert enough to know whether more time will make it so.

So depending on what we have to give up in trade, I might want to stand pat with what we have. We still have a couple of players ramping up that will help our offense offset our defensive weaknesses against a couple of teams. Regardless of what it has looked like early this year I still think we have a good team as is. Of course I've been known to be horribly wrong occasionally.

[therealbig3]

Also, I'm very confused about why everyone keeps saying the "with the level of talent we have..." line, like we're underachieving?

We have two All-NBA players, whose health and commitment to the team wax and wane on an almost daily basis...and that's pretty much it in terms of real talent. There isn't a single player on this roster outside of those two who's irreplaceable and who you can't find an extremely comparable player on any other roster around the league. Ben Simmons in particular is pretty blatantly the most overpaid player in basketball right now, given his talent and contributions as a player (which isn't much right now...still don't think people realize how useless a big, athletic wing who's a total liability at almost all facets of offense outside of making a nice pass here and there actually is...he still keeps getting the "talented" label, which is so mind-boggling to me).

We are NOT a talented roster. The Bucks, Celtics, and Sixers have FAR more talented rosters than we do, and it's not close. That's why they are actual contenders, and we're a mediocre team that's going to struggle hard to make the playoffs. And then lose handily in either the play-in or the 1st round.

It's so obvious what the end result of the season is going to be, and yet, we're going to delude ourselves at various points throughout the season whenever the team looks half-decent out there, only to then be massively disappointed again. The 2021 season was the fluke, not last year.

[NetsJets]

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[MrDollarBills]

Also, I'm very confused about why everyone keeps saying the "with the level of talent we have..." line, like we're underachieving?

We have two All-NBA players, whose health and commitment to the team wax and wane on an almost daily basis...and that's pretty much it in terms of real talent. There isn't a single player on this roster outside of those two who's irreplaceable and who you can't find an extremely comparable player on any other roster around the league. Ben Simmons in particular is pretty blatantly the most overpaid player in basketball right now, given his talent and contributions as a player (which isn't much right now...still don't think people realize how useless a big, athletic wing who's a total liability at almost all facets of offense outside of making a nice pass here and there actually is...he still keeps getting the "talented" label, which is so mind-boggling to me).

We are NOT a talented roster. The Bucks, Celtics, and Sixers have FAR more talented rosters than we do, and it's not close. That's why they are actual contenders, and we're a mediocre team that's going to struggle hard to make the playoffs. And then lose handily in either the play-in or the 1st round.

It's so obvious what the end result of the season is going to be, and yet, we're going to delude ourselves at various points throughout the season whenever the team looks half-decent out there, only to then be massively disappointed again. The 2021 season was the fluke, not last year.

Well said.

I disagree with you somewhat about the roster. Yes, Marks should have went to get a stretch 5/seasoned big, yes Simmons is not yielding results, but I still think that on paper this is a good roster that if used correctly should be a tough team to beat...two all NBA level players w/ shooters should get you somewhere. The issue is that the coach is an ass. We had to get outside help to actually install an offense, but the defense is still awful and the rotations are even worse. They all looked lost on defense last night. Simmons is a foul machine.

We've had enough of a sample size to know that we need to separate Claxton and Simmons, and that Sharpe isn't ready yet.

[NetsWorld]

Also, I'm very confused about why everyone keeps saying the "with the level of talent we have..." line, like we're underachieving?

We have two All-NBA players, whose health and commitment to the team wax and wane on an almost daily basis...and that's pretty much it in terms of real talent. There isn't a single player on this roster outside of those two who's irreplaceable and who you can't find an extremely comparable player on any other roster around the league. Ben Simmons in particular is pretty blatantly the most overpaid player in basketball right now, given his talent and contributions as a player (which isn't much right now...still don't think people realize how useless a big, athletic wing who's a total liability at almost all facets of offense outside of making a nice pass here and there actually is...he still keeps getting the "talented" label, which is so mind-boggling to me).

We are NOT a talented roster. The Bucks, Celtics, and Sixers have FAR more talented rosters than we do, and it's not close. That's why they are actual contenders, and we're a mediocre team that's going to struggle hard to make the playoffs. And then lose handily in either the play-in or the 1st round.

It's so obvious what the end result of the season is going to be, and yet, we're going to delude ourselves at various points throughout the season whenever the team looks half-decent out there, only to then be massively disappointed again. The 2021 season was the fluke, not last year.

Well said.

I disagree with you somewhat about the roster. Yes, Marks should have went to get a stretch 5/seasoned big, yes Simmons is not yielding results, but I still think that on paper this is a good roster that if used correctly should be a tough team to beat...two all NBA level players w/ shooters should get you somewhere. The issue is that the coach is an ass. We had to get outside help to actually install an offense, but the defense is still awful and the rotations are even worse. They all looked lost on defense last night. Simmons is a foul machine.

We've had enough of a sample size to know that we need to separate Claxton and Simmons, and that Sharpe isn't ready yet.

Agreed, I think the roster construction is perfect. Yuta and Markieff are still both serviceable players but a deficient coach like Nash cannot properly utilize them. Imagine Spolstra, Udoka or Dantoni taking over this roster. Our offense would be so monstrous that even if we were bottom tier in defense, teams still cannot beat us; if you need proof, just look at two seasons ago and ask the Bucks in Games 1 and 2 and ALMOST Game 4..... Oh and uh forgot to mention, Udoka and D'Antoni were apart of that coaching staff.

[OfficialRef]

Ben is turning into Westbrook 2.0 on this team.

An expected star impact player who instead is ruining the team and seemingly being a negative out on the floor. Like the Lakers, I don't expect the Nets to bench their "star" until its well late. Ben can still prove everyone wrong and become a good player but as of now he hurts us out there, especially playing with claxton.

[OfficialRef]

I just don't see it working with Ben as a starter. He has more fouls than he does FGAs and the lanes are clogged. We need to play him towards his strengths.

I think we need to play small in our second unit with Ben being point center. I'd start:

Kyrie/Royce/Harris/KD/Claxton

2nd unit: Simmons/Mills/Yuta/Morris with one of KD or Kyrie

Surround Ben with four guys that can shoot and let him operate as the primary ball handler. Simmons and Claxton together is not working.

Good post.

Hopefully Seth can bump Patty out of the rotation and Warren (Whenever he comes back) can bump Yuta. If any good came out of the memphis series its that the best lineup as of NOW is Kyrie/Royce/Harris/Durant/Clax

[NetsJets]

Ben is turning into Westbrook 2.0 on this team.

An expected star impact player who instead is ruining the team and seemingly being a negative out on the floor. Like the Lakers, I don't expect the Nets to bench their "star" until its well late. Ben can still prove everyone wrong and become a good player but as of now he hurts us out there, especially playing with claxton.

Westbrook at least tries. Ben is a complete negative out there.

[Decipher]

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On the one hand, it clearly isnt a foul

On the other, Simmons and Nash have to realise that some refs are gunning for him so he shouldnt be in that position

[Hello Brooklyn]

All this Simmons hate is just stupid.

He isn't the first player in history to look bad after a long layover.

Give him at least 15-20 games before saying he sucks.

[MrDollarBills]

Ben is turning into Westbrook 2.0 on this team.

An expected star impact player who instead is ruining the team and seemingly being a negative out on the floor. Like the Lakers, I don't expect the Nets to bench their "star" until its well late. Ben can still prove everyone wrong and become a good player but as of now he hurts us out there, especially playing with claxton.

Westbrook is a lot worse than Ben, imo. He's become a cancer and unplayable. Put Ben in the proper line up with shooters and run offensive sets and he'll produce. Him and Claxton just aren't a good fit together

[MrDollarBills]

Ben is turning into Westbrook 2.0 on this team.

An expected star impact player who instead is ruining the team and seemingly being a negative out on the floor. Like the Lakers, I don't expect the Nets to bench their "star" until its well late. Ben can still prove everyone wrong and become a good player but as of now he hurts us out there, especially playing with claxton.

Westbrook at least tries. Ben is a complete negative out there.

I disagree. I think we can get a lot out of Ben if we use him right.

Picture this down the line:

Kyrie/Royce/Harris/KD/Claxton 1st 5

Ben/Curry/Warren/Morris/Yuta small ball unit, and you can mix and match with KD/Kyrie

That's a solid rotation. 2nd unit can be a change of pace group. We need to get Ben out in transition with shooters.

Marks may need to take a flyer on one of the free agent bigs.

[NetsJets]

Ben is turning into Westbrook 2.0 on this team.

An expected star impact player who instead is ruining the team and seemingly being a negative out on the floor. Like the Lakers, I don't expect the Nets to bench their "star" until its well late. Ben can still prove everyone wrong and become a good player but as of now he hurts us out there, especially playing with claxton.

Westbrook at least tries. Ben is a complete negative out there.

I disagree. I think we can get a lot out of Ben if we use him right.

Picture this down the line:

Kyrie/Royce/Harris/KD/Claxton 1st 5

Ben/Curry/Warren/Morris/Yuta small ball unit, and you can mix and match with KD/Kyrie

That's a solid rotation. 2nd unit can be a change of pace group. We need to get Ben out in transition with shooters.

Marks may need to take a flyer on one of the free agent bigs.

Ben Simmons is the worst player in the league. Based on what you’ve seen name me something he’s done positively consistently?

[MGrand15]

I know yesterday was frustrating but a lot of this thread is acting like we got destroyed and thoroughly embarrassed. It was a 6 point game with 3:30 and we had the ball. Memphis also shot the lights out and the refs were whistle happy. Memphis is also a really good team. We still scored 120+.

Ben has been a problem but I really can't put this on the coaches. Ben was never a scorer but his career average is still 15 PPG. He's played next to non-shooters before. He's either still recovering from the layoff or he has the yips from his final playoff series in Philly. Nash isn't a wizard but he's put Ben in a ton of different spots. Ben used to be a one man fast break. He used to get offensive rebounds. He would punish smaller guys inside. He would drive by slower guys. He's just not doing any of that.

The only thing I think i want to see more with Ben is post ups. He hasn't had any success as the lead ball handler. And it just clogs the offense because teams are laying way off him. We need to get away from that in the half court.

We obviously need Joe and Ben right if we're going to do anything. You can throw Seth in there too. We've known that this isn't a team with a huge margin for error. Nothing has changed.