2022-23 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.1)

[BoatsNZones]

Jokic was so oddly passive today. Only his 2nd single digit point game in the past 3 seasons (oddly also against the Blazers, but a blowout win where he racked up all the boards/assists). He straight triple-singled this one with the 9/9/9 on 4 shots (3 FTA) in a blowout loss where they were actually up at half. Hadn't seen him play like that since the 19/20 season where this would happen pretty regularly. Still looks fantastic overall this year though.

This season is showcasing an inordinate amount of MVP caliber players at or near their prime between Giannis, Curry, Jokic, Luka, KD, Embiid and now I'd also safely include Ja (unsustainable shooting aside, he was a guy I think plenty of us saw making the leap to the MVP level this season). Tatum also feels very close, but still on the outside looking in as a talent from that group IMO. I'd have him at the top of the 2nd tier of guys like Dame/Booker/Trae/Ingram/Harden/Mitchell/PG etc (I honestly don't know where I'd put Lebron, but probably somewhere between the two groups himself). Dope to see Dame looking like the All NBA caliber player he is again by the way; safe to say that at 32 years old it looks like it truly was just the ab issue that threw his game off last year. And he's definitely talented enough to get top 5 contention again this year.

But to use an NBA analogy, if the season was a full game, we're about 2 minutes in right now.
We're just starting to get a feel for how players are looking out of training camp. You've got another true MVP caliber talent in Kawhi who's still breaking himself back into the NBA, and guys like Zion who could break off their own rust and emerge as a legit superstar this season. It's going to be a damn fun year and this MVP race has the potential to be crowded/epic.

[jokeboy86]

If Ja and Tatum stay healthy and their teams are 1 or 2 its theirs to lose. Still not sure if the Mavs can get to 1 or 2 for Luka to have a shot. Not to mention that the networks are looking for a reason to push a US born MVP for marketing and media reasons cause they’re getting international fatigue.

[Cubbies2120]

Damian Lillard deserves a mention so far.

33/6/5 on 50/40/90 and league best record.

[Gusto1903]

I bet that 1 vote for Embiid is from eyeatoma or Hussein Fatal. Where Hussein at lately tho?

[NBA4Lyfe]

James Harden is 3rd in the league in overall efficiency

https://www.nba.com/stats/leaders?StatCategory=EFF

[scrabbarista]

This thread is going to be so toxic. I read like two posts and I'm done.

EDIT: Actually, this whole page is fine. It's always just one or two guys who spoil it for the rest of us with their standom. Or maybe I'm too sensitive.

[Archx]

This thread is going to be so toxic. I read like two posts and I'm done.

What did you expect? We're 4 or (two teams are only 2 games) in and some people are already crowning MVPs This thread will be much more valid after new year.

[KGtabake]

If this is going to be Philly going forward, i think that harden will reduce drastically Embiids chances.
Harden is going to have enough good games.

[Yuri36]

Giannis is on a completely different tier of defensive IQ than Luka. What is going on here?

Humm other than rebounding (where Luka is really not too shabby considering his athletic limitations) and blocks which are both 90% dued to his godly athleticism (especially blocking), what does he do better than Luka defensively?
Getting steals? Oups Luka is getting around the same despite not even being close to have the same length of hands as Giannis.

Luka is a great player, but is generally considered to be in a tier below Antetokounmpo. Giannis has always finished higher than Luka in MVP voting, in DPOY voting and in All-NBA voting. Luka has never finished higher than Giannis in any major NBA award.

The assertion that Luka is defensively comparable to Giannis is absurd. I don't think Luka has ever received a single vote for DPOY. Not one.

You either didn't read the full conversation or have some comprehension issues.
I never said Luka was comparable to Giannis defensively (he will never be anyway with that HUGE difference in term of athleticism between the 2), the point was about Giannis's IQ defensive instincts being also better than Luka's which is another debate.

[CobraCommander]

Tatum is playing the best so far…. So if it’s a fair judgement of who should be MVP based on what we have seen—/ it’s tatum.

Next week tune in and find out

[CobraCommander]

I think Luka will win the MVP award, but Giannis is still the best player in basketball.

Giannis is the best combination of a physical freak and basketball talent but as a pure basketball talent, Luka absolutely trumps Giannis.

If it was a talent question Curry and Kyrie always win…. But it’s kinda not a talent question at all

[old skool]

Humm other than rebounding (where Luka is really not too shabby considering his athletic limitations) and blocks which are both 90% dued to his godly athleticism (especially blocking), what does he do better than Luka defensively?
Getting steals? Oups Luka is getting around the same despite not even being close to have the same length of hands as Giannis.

Luka is a great player, but is generally considered to be in a tier below Antetokounmpo. Giannis has always finished higher than Luka in MVP voting, in DPOY voting and in All-NBA voting. Luka has never finished higher than Giannis in any major NBA award.

The assertion that Luka is defensively comparable to Giannis is absurd. I don't think Luka has ever received a single vote for DPOY. Not one.

You either didn't read the full conversation or have some comprehension issues.
I never said Luka was comparable to Giannis defensively (he will never be anyway with that HUGE difference in term of athleticism between the 2), the point was about Giannis's IQ defensive instincts being also better than Luka's which is another debate.

I don't think I misunderstood the point you were trying to make. You were asserting that, other than rebounds and blocks, Antetokounmpo does not do anything better on defense than Luka. That is what you said, and what I reacted to.

My response was that your assertion is absurd. Too support my response, I pointed out that Luka has never received a single vote for DPOY. That not one voter has ever cast a single vote for Luka, while Antetokounmpo being consistently among the top DOPY vote getters is a clear indication that those who closely follow the NBA see a vast disparity between the defensive performance of the two players. This vast disparity is affirmed year after year after year.

You seem to be trying to swerve away from talking about defensive performance to the unmeasurably vague defensive "instinct". We could talk about defensive instincts in the same conversation as "defensive DNA", "defensive intelligence", "defensive leadership", and "defensive mojo", but what would be the point?

Antetokounmpo is consistently recognized as one of the top individual defenders in the NBA. In multiple seasons he has been the defensive anchor of the best defensive team in the NBA. He has made iconic defensive plays throughout his career, including championship impact plays that rank among the greatest in NBA history.

Luka has never been recognized as a top individual defender. He has never been the defensive anchor for his team. He has never played on the best defensive team in the NBA. He has never made iconic defensive plays that rank among the greatest in NBA history. On any pertinent level, an assertion that he is defensively comparable to Antetokounmpo is absurd.

[SOdisciple]

Tatum is playing the best so far…. So if it’s a fair judgement of who should be MVP based on what we have seen—/ it’s tatum.

Next week tune in and find out

Dame has been putting up similar numbers and his team has the best record in the NBA atm, I could easily see an argument for him as well.

[BNM]

Jokic was so oddly passive today. Only his 2nd single digit point game in the past 3 seasons (oddly also against the Blazers, but a blowout win where he racked up all the boards/assists). He straight triple-singled this one with the 9/9/9 on 4 shots (3 FTA) in a blowout loss where they were actually up at half. Hadn't seen him play like that since the 19/20 season where this would happen pretty regularly. Still looks fantastic overall this year though.

This season is showcasing an inordinate amount of MVP caliber players at or near their prime between Giannis, Curry, Jokic, Luka, KD, Embiid and now I'd also safely include Ja (unsustainable shooting aside, he was a guy I think plenty of us saw making the leap to the MVP level this season). Tatum also feels very close, but still on the outside looking in as a talent from that group IMO. I'd have him at the top of the 2nd tier of guys like Dame/Booker/Trae/Ingram/Harden/Mitchell/PG etc (I honestly don't know where I'd put Lebron, but probably somewhere between the two groups himself). Dope to see Dame looking like the All NBA caliber player he is again by the way; safe to say that at 32 years old it looks like it truly was just the ab issue that threw his game off last year. And he's definitely talented enough to get top 5 contention again this year.

But to use an NBA analogy, if the season was a full game, we're about 2 minutes in right now.
We're just starting to get a feel for how players are looking out of training camp. You've got another true MVP caliber talent in Kawhi who's still breaking himself back into the NBA, and guys like Zion who could break off their own rust and emerge as a legit superstar this season. It's going to be a damn fun year and this MVP race has the potential to be crowded/epic.

Good summary. Yeah, it's odd to see Jokic occasionally have these games against POR where he looks downright human. It's weird that he was so passive last night, but in all fairness, I love his game and he absolutely destroyed POR in the playoffs two seasons ago. So, in spite of an occasional lackluster regular season game against POR: Advantage Jokic (by a wide margin).

Regarding Dame - to anyone who actually watched him play last season, it was VERY obvious the ab injury killed his explosiveness and completely robbed him of his lateral quickness, but all the box score watchers were quick to label him done, washed, in rapid decline, etc. Well, he's back, rested, healthy and lookin as good, or better, than ever. Sure it's just been 4 games, but he has had more 40+ point games in his first 3 games this season than he did in 29 games last season.

[Infinite Llamas]

Concerning Jokic last night, it was a combination of a poor game plan and Jokic getting an unfavorable whistle (2 cheap calls in the span of 10 seconds in the 2nd). I feel like the team was trying to use Gordon in the post using mismatches…that and the idea of trying to get Murray into a rhythm. Jokic spent most of the game on the perimeter as a result and by the time they gave him the ball and said go to work, it was too late.

Denver is at its best when Jokic dominates early as it opens the rest of the game up for the whole team. Especially Jamal. I just think that Malone underrated his opponent here and the game plan wasn’t ideal.

[Infinite Llamas]

Also it was fun to watch Simons go nuclear. Has that Gerald Green flame inside of him where when it turns on, he can knock shots down all over the court. They said in the broadcast that Simons has all star aspirations and I hope he fulfills all that potential.

[CobraCommander]

Tatum is playing the best so far…. So if it’s a fair judgement of who should be MVP based on what we have seen—/ it’s tatum.

Next week tune in and find out

Dame has been putting up similar numbers and his team has the best record in the NBA atm, I could easily see an argument for him as well.

Totally agree- it’s fluid

[jokeboy86]

Jokic was so oddly passive today. Only his 2nd single digit point game in the past 3 seasons (oddly also against the Blazers, but a blowout win where he racked up all the boards/assists). He straight triple-singled this one with the 9/9/9 on 4 shots (3 FTA) in a blowout loss where they were actually up at half. Hadn't seen him play like that since the 19/20 season where this would happen pretty regularly. Still looks fantastic overall this year though.

This season is showcasing an inordinate amount of MVP caliber players at or near their prime between Giannis, Curry, Jokic, Luka, KD, Embiid and now I'd also safely include Ja (unsustainable shooting aside, he was a guy I think plenty of us saw making the leap to the MVP level this season). Tatum also feels very close, but still on the outside looking in as a talent from that group IMO. I'd have him at the top of the 2nd tier of guys like Dame/Booker/Trae/Ingram/Harden/Mitchell/PG etc (I honestly don't know where I'd put Lebron, but probably somewhere between the two groups himself). Dope to see Dame looking like the All NBA caliber player he is again by the way; safe to say that at 32 years old it looks like it truly was just the ab issue that threw his game off last year. And he's definitely talented enough to get top 5 contention again this year.

But to use an NBA analogy, if the season was a full game, we're about 2 minutes in right now.
We're just starting to get a feel for how players are looking out of training camp. You've got another true MVP caliber talent in Kawhi who's still breaking himself back into the NBA, and guys like Zion who could break off their own rust and emerge as a legit superstar this season. It's going to be a damn fun year and this MVP race has the potential to be crowded/epic.

Kawhi might be my favorite player to watch but's he never ever going to get a sniff of the MVP because he's probably never going to play enough games(Walton being the exception) for the voters liking. Plus I think a lot of the NBA media secretly holds a grudge against him because of the fact that he's a star who load manages the most.

[MrBigShot]

Definitely rooting for Dame but I don't think he'll have the record to win it.

This race is off to an insane start. To put things into perspective, De'Aron Fox's 31.7ppg puts him at a whopping 10th place in ppg so far.

[greekbuck34]

Concerning Jokic last night, it was a combination of a poor game plan and Jokic getting an unfavorable whistle (2 cheap calls in the span of 10 seconds in the 2nd). I feel like the team was trying to use Gordon in the post using mismatches…that and the idea of trying to get Murray into a rhythm. Jokic spent most of the game on the perimeter as a result and by the time they gave him the ball and said go to work, it was too late.

Denver is at its best when Jokic dominates early as it opens the rest of the game up for the whole team. Especially Jamal. I just think that Malone underrated his opponent here and the game plan wasn’t ideal.

You keep mentioning the Nuggets offense while the biggest problem is clearly their defense. The Blazers scored 135 points last night. 123 the Warriors, 123 the Jazz, 117 the Thunder.

4 games is not a lot but allowing 125 ppg is a bad sign and the worst in the league so far.