2022-23 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.1)

[Jamaaliver]

Can we include the league leader in assists per game in the conversation?

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[Sgt Major]

Jokic finally doesn't have to carry all the load by himself, at least at the beginning of the season, so he's just chillin whenever possible.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

Can we include the league leader in assists per game in the conversation?

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Assuming it's not a load management night, tonight will be a good early test for him

[yoyoboy]

Can we include the league leader in assists per game in the conversation?

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The issue is so long as Trae’s defense is a trainwreck, he’s just not on the same level in terms of total impact as guys like Curry, Jokic, Giannis, and Doncic. Trae might end up being the most valuable offensive player in the league this season, but he would have to be soo much better on that end than the the other true contenders for the award to make up for how far behind he is defensively.

[Jamaaliver]

The issue is so long as Trae’s defense is a trainwreck, he’s just not on the same level in terms of total impact as guys like Curry, Jokic, Giannis, and Doncic. Trae might end up being the most valuable offensive player in the league this season, but he would have to be soo much better on that end than the the other true contenders for the award to make up for how far behind he is defensively.

I'm sorry, but if Luka or Steph win MVP this year...it won't be for their defense.

[yoyoboy]

The issue is so long as Trae’s defense is a trainwreck, he’s just not on the same level in terms of total impact as guys like Curry, Jokic, Giannis, and Doncic. Trae might end up being the most valuable offensive player in the league this season, but he would have to be soo much better on that end than the the other true contenders for the award to make up for how far behind he is defensively.

I'm sorry, but if Luka or Steph win MVP this year...it won't be for their defense.

I missed the part where I said that? They’re both still clearly ahead of Trae as a defender. You can’t just disregard the whole other side of the floor. It’s not even clear who between Steph and Trae is a more valuable offensive player, and then defensively Steph is average to slightly above average while Trae is terrible. So what will Trae’s argument be exactly?

I actually thought Trae was arguably the best offensive player last regular season, as it was between him and Jokic. Trae really can’t get that much better than he already is on offense in the RS. To make that leap to MVP-worthy player, he would simply have to become a significantly better defender. But he’s greatly limited by his physical attributes in that end so it’s hard to see that happening.

[Jamaaliver]

I actually thought Trae was arguably the best offensive player last regular season, as it was between him and Jokic. Trae really can’t get that much better than he already is on offense in the RS. To make that leap to MVP-worthy player, he would simply have to become a significantly better defender. But he’s greatly limited by his physical attributes in that end so it’s hard to see that happening.

There are a number of metrics that place Trae among the most valuable players last regular season.

Spoiler:

There’s no question Young is one of the best offensive players of recent memory.

Only NBA Finals MVP Stephen Curry of the Golden State Warriors had a better offensive DRIP (a projection of a player’s contribution to a team’s plus-minus per 100 possessions) this past season, and when he was on the floor, the Hawks posted a bonkers 119.8 offensive rating (which would have made them by far the best offense in basketball).

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For Trae to truly become an MVP contender, his team needs to win more games. Even a slight improvement from Trae on defense will aid in that endeavour. But MVPs from Harden to Steve Nash have been various levels of terrible on defense and still won the award.

Offensive production plus winning equals MVP consideration.

[BelgradeNugget]

Can we include the league leader in assists per game in the conversation?

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Can we at least wait for him to shoot better than 40% from the field and 30% from 3 to put him into conversation?
Right now his shooting splits are 39.3/29.3/92.2

[CobraCommander]

Can we include the league leader in assists per game in the conversation?

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The issue is so long as Trae’s defense is a trainwreck, he’s just not on the same level in terms of total impact as guys like Curry, Jokic, Giannis, and Doncic. Trae might end up being the most valuable offensive player in the league this season, but he would have to be soo much better on that end than the the other true contenders for the award to make up for how far behind he is defensively.

I disagree when it comes to total impact.

Trae is absolutely on the same level as Luka and Ja when it comes to impact for his team...


ALSO. Trae is on the same level as Curry and Luka when it comes to defense....they all kinda suck at it...trae may suck worse and Luka may suck the least.... BUT THEY ALL SUCK DEFENSIVELY- Come on...let’s love them but be honest

I would argue based on the numbers Trae was ahead of and had a better regular season than Curry and Luka last year. Check the numbers...but NO one is going to forget what Luka and Curry did during the playoffs last year and they are not going to forget or “forgive”Trae for what he did during the playoffs LAST year. With that said, I think Trae is hurt by his last playoff appearance as much as Luka is helped by his playoff performances when it comes to voting for mvp.

I think voters think about unrelated seasons when voting for the regular season MVP and it helps young unproven players initially but then hurts players once they have a a few playoff and regular seasons under their belt.

I think Trae could have the best statistical reg season and if Ja or Luka or Curry have seasons statistically within a few % points BELOW Trae, the voters will think of Traes performance last year in the playoffs and vote for the other guys...

Completely unfair but my opinion

[yoyoboy]

ALSO. Trae is on the same level as Curry and Luka when it comes to defense....they all kinda suck at it...trae may suck worse and Luka may suck the least.... BUT THEY ALL SUCK DEFENSIVELY- Come on...let’s love them but be honest

I just completely disagree with this. The advanced metrics don’t support this at all either, as Trae consistently ranks at the bottom of the league defensively, while Steph usually rates out above average in defensive impact. Steph is pesky, strong for his size, gets in the passing lanes, boxes out and rebounds well, and has become smart with rotations. Trae just completely dies on screens and is then out of the play on a defensive possession, is way too small/weak to bother anybody on drives or provide any real help defense, and doesn’t even have great effort or instincts, which not having is basically a death sentence when you’re already so undersized.

Saying well they’re all bad anyways 1. ignores there are levels to how bad you can be that make a huge difference in overall impact, just as there’s a difference between a good offensive player like current Kevin Love and an amazing one like Nikola Jokic; and 2. tells me you’re buying into narratives and not really looking at the numbers or watching these guys closely. As for Doncic, he would probably be as bad as Trae on defense if he were the same size, but fortunately for him size matters. It allows him to have a presence on the boards and be more switchable without getting totally abused. I think he’s below average, but again, nowhere near as bad as Trae.

[Prez]

ALSO. Trae is on the same level as Curry and Luka when it comes to defense....they all kinda suck at it...trae may suck worse and Luka may suck the least.... BUT THEY ALL SUCK DEFENSIVELY- Come on...let’s love them but be honest

Nah, Trae is absolutely not on the same level as Curry defensively. It isn’t really close either. Curry can be exploited at times but generally speaking he’s actually been a pretty solid defensive player, I would argue above average. Trae is legitimately awful on defense, like bottom of the league level. They are not on the same level on that end at all.

And also defense (like everything else in basketball) isn’t binary, where you’re either good or you suck. It’s a spectrum, there are degrees to how “bad” or how “good” defenders are, doesn’t make sense to me to just group everyone into the same category.

If one guy is slightly below average on defense and the other is catastrophically bad, the difference matters. But again Steph isn’t even below average, he’s pretty solid.

[Jamaaliver]

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[Jamaaliver]

Both these guys looked MVP caliber tonight.

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[NaturalThunder]

How about SGA so far? I know longterm he isn't an MVP candidate, but through 6 games he's been pretty great.

31.0 PPG, 5.0 RPG, 7.0 APG, 2.4 SPG, 1.2 BPG, 49.6% FG (59/119), 36.8% 3P (7/19), 100% FT (30/30), 58.6% TS

In easier to read format: 31-7-5-2-1 on 50/37/100 shooting.

[mediocrityrules]

Both these guys looked MVP caliber tonight.

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Giannis actually didn't look MVP caliber tonight. Had an ordinary game for the most part, but he still finds a way to impact.

[OkcSinceSGA]

How about SGA so far? I know longterm he isn't an MVP candidate, but through 6 games he's been pretty great.

31.0 PPG, 5.0 RPG, 7.0 APG, 2.4 SPG, 1.2 BPG, 49.6% FG (59/119), 36.8% 3P (7/19), 100% FT (30/30), 58.6% TS

In easier to read format: 31-7-5-2-1 on 50/37/100 shooting.

Drop the long term comment. Have faith. No logical reason based on his skill set that he can’t be an MVP caliber guy long term.

[AussieBuck]

Giannis had a relative stinker today or at least a terrible first half but like the previous game he makes the dude he's guarding just give up on life at the same time. (Shout out to All-NBA (lol) guy Julius Randle looking depressed as **** while Giannis was on court yesterday) Collins scored 4 today FYI.

Trae is a approaching Curry like dominance but he's like a high school kid on the other end. Dude is obviously wildly good on offense so you have to build around him, I think he just needs a complete shut down cast 2-5. They need a JJJ at PF or something.

[JN61]

Shouldn't we have Lebron on the list as well since we have the best player of the worst team of Eastern conference on the list?

[JN61]

How about SGA so far? I know longterm he isn't an MVP candidate, but through 6 games he's been pretty great.

31.0 PPG, 5.0 RPG, 7.0 APG, 2.4 SPG, 1.2 BPG, 49.6% FG (59/119), 36.8% 3P (7/19), 100% FT (30/30), 58.6% TS

In easier to read format: 31-7-5-2-1 on 50/37/100 shooting.

He is the real deal but lets be honest. Half of the league would be in this kind of discussion after handful of games. To me talking about MVP this early is always pointless. Get few good games in and you are in meaningless discussion. Lets see after 10 more games where these players start dropping into.

As much as I like to root to these guys there are simply monsters like Jokic, Giannis and Doncic out there.

[JN61]

Jokic finally doesn't have to carry all the load by himself, at least at the beginning of the season, so he's just chillin whenever possible.

It is amazing to watch. he is basically automatic anywhere but from the 3 now. Sure he doesn't have the volume but his BBIQ is beyond anyone in the league and he dominates the game like Nash used to do. Small volume but higher impact than anyone else.