Woj: Domantas Sabonis, J. Lamb, J. Holiday Traded to Sacramento for Tyrese Haliburton, Buddy Hield, T. Thompson

[sackings916]

It’s amazing how so many fans are incapable of accounting for role, minutes, and usage when judging players. I said when the trade happened Haliburton was a better player than Sabonis even then. Now it’s obvious. Sabonis is skilled but as a non-defending big he is practically impossible to build around unless he’s your 4th or 5th best player.

And Haliburton is clearly better than Fox. Fox could average 40 a game and Haliburton would still be better. Things like controlling tempo, pace, intangibles, basketball IQ, involving teammates, even body language, Haliburton is clearly better at than Fox. Then scoring, shooting, play making side it’s not a competition. Of course this is assuming Fox didn’t suddenly turn into Steph Curry his 6th year in the league and his shooting comes down to earth. Win/loss record shows very little if a guy is a “winning player” especially as a young guy. Haliburton clearly has the IQ/intangibles to win though - similar to how Booker and Trae Young had it when they were losing.

It’s amazing to see someone speak on a subject they don’t know about

Please elaborate what in my post you disagree with or made you make that statement. Thank you. *expecting crickets*

There’s no point. Let’s just see how the season plays out and what kind of season Fox has.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I thought this trade was terrible when it happened, and now it looks like one of the worst of the last 10-15 years. I can't even understand what the Kings were thinking, Haliburton is already a better player than Fox and Sabonis.

He is not better than Fox but he is a very good player and I hated the trade but not as bad as you describe it.

It was precisely that bad. Particularly because even if you were trading Halliburton the team needed defense.

It gets even worse when you factor in Davion Mitchell and Fox cannot play together, at least if Haliburton were there you could experiment with the big PG, little shooting guard concept to maybe get Mitchell going more, and to take pressure off him needing to be able to shoot. He'd at least be able to play next to Haliburton and focus on defense.

[CraftylikeaFox]

You'd have a pretty damn good team if Sabonis is your 4th or 5th best player.

Yes that’s the point. You can only build a pretty damn good team if Sabonis is your 4th/5th best player in my opinion.

That was the problem in Indy. Everyone loved Sabonis, Good numbers, smart player, plays hard. He could not hit a outside shot though, big problem in today's game. He was a very poor defender, even though a good rebounder.
If he was your 1st or 2nd best player he did not help anything going forward.

I feel Hali could be a 2nd best player; not sure 1st, but maybe; on a contender. He's been that good here.

Loved Sabonis, but after 20 something games last season and 6 games this season I wouldn't trade Hali for 2 Sabonis's.

Also making the trade even better, Buddy was the 3rd best player in the trade. The way he has played since coming to Indy, he's bordering on being the 2nd best player in the trade, He's also been that good.

Yes Indy has mostly sucked since the trade, but we were actively tanking. We lost something like12 games to end the season. The young talent we have is undeniable though. Most our main guys are under 22, 23. Most all were not on the team halfway through last season.

Super happy for Indy. I was devastated when we traded Hali and have maybe tuned in to 2 or 3 Kings games since that trade. Trading Hali was such a gut punch to myself and so many other Kings fans because we knew what we had and knew he was a better option than Fox to build around, but unfortunately this who we are as a team. At least he went to Indy which is one of my favorite non Kings franchises. He and Mathurin is such a good core going forward.

[Hoop Hunter]

Yes that’s the point. You can only build a pretty damn good team if Sabonis is your 4th/5th best player in my opinion.

That was the problem in Indy. Everyone loved Sabonis, Good numbers, smart player, plays hard. He could not hit a outside shot though, big problem in today's game. He was a very poor defender, even though a good rebounder.
If he was your 1st or 2nd best player he did not help anything going forward.

I feel Hali could be a 2nd best player; not sure 1st, but maybe; on a contender. He's been that good here.

Loved Sabonis, but after 20 something games last season and 6 games this season I wouldn't trade Hali for 2 Sabonis's.

Also making the trade even better, Buddy was the 3rd best player in the trade. The way he has played since coming to Indy, he's bordering on being the 2nd best player in the trade, He's also been that good.

Yes Indy has mostly sucked since the trade, but we were actively tanking. We lost something like12 games to end the season. The young talent we have is undeniable though. Most our main guys are under 22, 23. Most all were not on the team halfway through last season.

Super happy for Indy. I was devastated when we traded Hali and have maybe tuned in to 2 or 3 Kings games since that trade. Trading Hali was such a gut punch to myself and so many other Kings fans because we knew what we had and knew he was a better option than Fox to build around, but unfortunately this who we are as a team. At least he went to Indy which is one of my favorite non Kings franchises. He and Mathurin is such a good core going forward.

Thanks. I was big Kings fan back in the Weber days. My 2nd fav team two the Pacers.

Have watched lots of Kings games since the trade. Sabonis is still good, Fox playing out of his mind this season. Love rookie Keegan.

[TheAlchemist]

I don’t understand at all what the heck the kings where thinking. Halliburton wasn’t an unknown, he was known in NBA circles as the next star point guard and he cried when getting traded.

If they wanted to pivot, why not trade D. Fox?

I can even imagine a trade with the Raptors, that would’ve gone down like OG + Gary Trent + maybe Precious for Fox.

Kings would’ve been loaded. And it would’ve been an amazing trade.

Just wild.

[ConSarnit]

I don’t understand at all what the heck the kings where thinking. Halliburton wasn’t an unknown, he was known in NBA circles as the next star point guard and he cried when getting traded.

If they wanted to pivot, why not trade D. Fox?

I can even imagine a trade with the Raptors, that would’ve gone down like OG + Gary Trent + maybe Precious for Fox.

Kings would’ve been loaded. And it would’ve been an amazing trade.

Just wild.

Trading Fox wouldn’t have made sense either. If they were trying to improve their already mediocre team (I’m being generous) why trade one good player for another? The goal should have been to add Sabonis to Fox and Haliburton. This trade just left them in the same place.

I don’t believe the Raptors would have traded that package for Fox. He’s not some surefire all-star.

Making a lateral trade when you aren’t even a playoff team is stupid. (Not even commenting on the fact that Haliburton is probably better than Sabonis).

[Memories]

Kings gonna Kings.

While I don’t think any franchise should move, if there was one team however, that REALLY should have, it was the Kings. That franchise is just beyond incompetent.

[ShazamDaShiznt]

Vivek doesn't know what he's doing and he's hiring inept people. If a team picks a 6ft10 horrible rapper over basketball phenom Luka, then you know this type of team is nothing but a wasteland for NBA players.

As far as this trade goes, they already had no defense and they chose a big who can't defend over a point guard with an actual defense Vivek just can't get it together. They might as well go start running his high school plays that he wanted to use in NBA game.

[Lalouie]

it's sacramento

[BenoUdrihFTL]

It’s amazing how so many fans are incapable of accounting for role, minutes, and usage when judging players. I said when the trade happened Haliburton was a better player than Sabonis even then. Now it’s obvious. Sabonis is skilled but as a non-defending big he is practically impossible to build around unless he’s your 4th or 5th best player.

And Haliburton is clearly better than Fox. Fox could average 40 a game and Haliburton would still be better. Things like controlling tempo, pace, intangibles, basketball IQ, involving teammates, even body language, Haliburton is clearly better at than Fox. Then scoring, shooting, play making side it’s not a competition. Of course this is assuming Fox didn’t suddenly turn into Steph Curry his 6th year in the league and his shooting comes down to earth. Win/loss record shows very little if a guy is a “winning player” especially as a young guy. Haliburton clearly has the IQ/intangibles to win though - similar to how Booker and Trae Young had it when they were losing.

You'd have a pretty damn good team if Sabonis is your 4th or 5th best player.

Yes that’s the point. You can only build a pretty damn good team if Sabonis is your 4th/5th best player in my opinion.

I think the other guy's point is that a team with Sabonis as 4th/5th best player is more of a superteam than just pretty damn good. Like I think he could be a top 3 player for a 50+ win 2nd or 3rd round team if you pair him with an elite mobile defensive big and an elite creator + some 3/D type role players

[Hoop Hunter]

It’s amazing to see someone speak on a subject they don’t know about

Please elaborate what in my post you disagree with or made you make that statement. Thank you. *expecting crickets*

There’s no point. Let’s just see how the season plays out and what kind of season Fox has.

Same as crickets. Pretty harsh 1st post telling him that. He made a pretty thought out post. If no point in replying, there's no point in posting it at all.

[Chanel Bomber]

This is one of the worst trades that I have ever seen since I started following the NBA.

Not only did the Kings lose their best talent in Haliburton, but the trade also made 0 sense. Who wants to build around Fox and Sabonis? I could understand the trade if it had been a win-now move, but this trade doesn't even take them to the playoffs

There's the James Harden trade and the Billy King trade. This trade falls right below them.

Kings fans should organize and protest at the arena. They are a disgrace of an organization.

[sackings916]

Please elaborate what in my post you disagree with or made you make that statement. Thank you. *expecting crickets*

There’s no point. Let’s just see how the season plays out and what kind of season Fox has.

Same as crickets. Pretty harsh 1st post telling him that. He made a pretty thought out post. If no point in replying, there's no point in posting it at all.

Nothing I say is altering his view. He obviously has not watched Fox since the trade, this man been putting up about 27-28ppg on 50% FG and 40% 3 since Sabonis been on the team, there’s no mention of Fox’s elite speed or elite ability to get to the rim, and the fact he is top 5 in points in the paint right there with Giannis and Zion. Fox is 24 years old yet being talked about as if he is a finished product.

[BrianInPhilly]

There’s no point. Let’s just see how the season plays out and what kind of season Fox has.

Same as crickets. Pretty harsh 1st post telling him that. He made a pretty thought out post. If no point in replying, there's no point in posting it at all.

Nothing I say is altering his view. He obviously has not watched Fox since the trade, this man been putting up about 27-28ppg on 50% FG and 40% 3 since Sabonis been on the team, there’s no mention of Fox’s elite speed or elite ability to get to the rim, and the fact he is top 5 in points in the paint right there with Giannis and Zion. Fox is 24 years old yet being talked about as if he is a finished product.

You’re right - Fox can get into the paint better than Haliburton sure … I just don’t think that overcomes all the other factors making Haliburton better. And sorry but yes a guy in his 6th year is 99% a finished product outside of minor improvements. On the shooting, yes Fox’s three point shot has gone in more often since the trade. I view that as more of an anomaly than some indication of some large improvement. Meanwhile Haliburton has been over 40% from three not just from some arbitrary sample size but literally ever sample size since he’s been in the league. Just to give Fox another +1, I think he is better than Haliburton right now at say creating separation in the mid range game yes. I think Halliburton’s play making, superior pick and roll play, shooting, IQ, intangibles makes up for the 1 or 2 advantages Fox has over him offensively. Fox is still alright for what he is but he can’t lead a team in my opinion as the main ball handler, OR main scorer, OR main playmaker. Haliburton can in at least 2 of those 3. If you’re building a team even to win this season, I think every coach would rather have Haliburton. He’ll pretty sure every 2-5 man who can pick their PG to run the team would pick him too.

I’ll say this too - I’m not a fan of Fox but I still think he’s the best player on the Kings and honestly the Haliburton-Fox combo I think could have coexisted, they were just horribly mismanaged. I watched Kings early last year. Haliburton was the off guard too much. If they kept them, and use Haliburton as the PG full time, and just use Fox as a slasher/striker/bucket getter I think it would have worked better. Use Fox like Beal/Booker/Tyrese Maxey , rather than a facilitator. They gave up on it too soon in my opinion.

[sackings916]

Same as crickets. Pretty harsh 1st post telling him that. He made a pretty thought out post. If no point in replying, there's no point in posting it at all.

Nothing I say is altering his view. He obviously has not watched Fox since the trade, this man been putting up about 27-28ppg on 50% FG and 40% 3 since Sabonis been on the team, there’s no mention of Fox’s elite speed or elite ability to get to the rim, and the fact he is top 5 in points in the paint right there with Giannis and Zion. Fox is 24 years old yet being talked about as if he is a finished product.

I’ll say this too - I’m not a fan of Fox but I still think he’s the best player on the Kings and honestly the Haliburton-Fox combo I think could have coexisted, they were just horribly mismanaged. I watched Kings early last year. Haliburton was the off guard too much. If they kept them, and use Haliburton as the PG full time, and just use Fox as a slasher/striker/bucket getter I think it would have worked better. Use Fox like Beal/Booker/Tyrese Maxey , rather than a facilitator. They gave up on it too soon in my opinion.

Thanks for proving my point. You obviously didn’t see enough of the Kings because the opposite of what you said is true - Haliburton had the ball majority of the time and Fox was off the ball, which is why Fox’s numbers looked horrible the first half of the year and took off once Sabonis was on the team. I would not sit here and act like I know the dynamic of the Sixers because I watched them for a half or 2 last year. And since you know so much about Fox, what was his focus on working on this off-season?

[BrianInPhilly]

Nothing I say is altering his view. He obviously has not watched Fox since the trade, this man been putting up about 27-28ppg on 50% FG and 40% 3 since Sabonis been on the team, there’s no mention of Fox’s elite speed or elite ability to get to the rim, and the fact he is top 5 in points in the paint right there with Giannis and Zion. Fox is 24 years old yet being talked about as if he is a finished product.

I’ll say this too - I’m not a fan of Fox but I still think he’s the best player on the Kings and honestly the Haliburton-Fox combo I think could have coexisted, they were just horribly mismanaged. I watched Kings early last year. Haliburton was the off guard too much. If they kept them, and use Haliburton as the PG full time, and just use Fox as a slasher/striker/bucket getter I think it would have worked better. Use Fox like Beal/Booker/Tyrese Maxey , rather than a facilitator. They gave up on it too soon in my opinion.

Thanks for proving my point. You obviously didn’t see enough of the Kings because the opposite of what you said is true - Haliburton had the ball majority of the time and Fox was off the ball, which is why Fox’s numbers looked horrible the first half of the year and took off once Sabonis was on the team. I would not sit here and act like I know the dynamic of the Sixers because I watched them for a half or 2 last year. And since you know so much about Fox, what was his focus on working on this off-season?

Ehh you have stats to back that up on who had the ball more? That’s honestly not what I remember. I remember Fox being overweight and that contributing to his slow start. And no I don’t know what Fox worked on in the off-season. Don’t see the relevancy, especially since we’re making a comparison here so any small improvement Fox makes I’m sure Haliburton being the younger guy would make at least the same improvement.

Agree to disagree I think is where we’re headed.

Oh and don’t read into my username, I’m based in Philly but Sixers are probably like my 5th favorite team.

[sackings916]

I’ll say this too - I’m not a fan of Fox but I still think he’s the best player on the Kings and honestly the Haliburton-Fox combo I think could have coexisted, they were just horribly mismanaged. I watched Kings early last year. Haliburton was the off guard too much. If they kept them, and use Haliburton as the PG full time, and just use Fox as a slasher/striker/bucket getter I think it would have worked better. Use Fox like Beal/Booker/Tyrese Maxey , rather than a facilitator. They gave up on it too soon in my opinion.

Thanks for proving my point. You obviously didn’t see enough of the Kings because the opposite of what you said is true - Haliburton had the ball majority of the time and Fox was off the ball, which is why Fox’s numbers looked horrible the first half of the year and took off once Sabonis was on the team. I would not sit here and act like I know the dynamic of the Sixers because I watched them for a half or 2 last year. And since you know so much about Fox, what was his focus on working on this off-season?

Ehh you have stats to back that up on who had the ball more? That’s honestly not what I remember. I remember Fox being overweight and that contributing to his slow start. And no I don’t know what Fox worked on in the off-season. Don’t see the relevancy, especially since we’re making a comparison here so any small improvement Fox makes I’m sure Haliburton being the younger guy would make at least the same improvement.

Agree to disagree I think is where we’re headed.

It’s relevant because he’s still growing as a player. But yes agree to disagree.

[KingFox]

Both teams won the trade. We’ll happily take Sabonis at 26 years old with Keegan Murray and Fox. Pacers will be fun too

[Murray_17]

Thanks for proving my point. You obviously didn’t see enough of the Kings because the opposite of what you said is true - Haliburton had the ball majority of the time and Fox was off the ball, which is why Fox’s numbers looked horrible the first half of the year and took off once Sabonis was on the team. I would not sit here and act like I know the dynamic of the Sixers because I watched them for a half or 2 last year. And since you know so much about Fox, what was his focus on working on this off-season?

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=de%27aaron+fox+usage+rate+and+assist+percentage+with+and+without+haliburton+fox+last+season

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=tyrese+haliburton+usage+rate+and+assist+percentage+with+and+without+de%27aaron+fox+last+season

[KingFox]

He is not better than Fox but he is a very good player and I hated the trade but not as bad as you describe it.

It was precisely that bad. Particularly because even if you were trading Halliburton the team needed defense.

It gets even worse when you factor in Davion Mitchell and Fox cannot play together, at least if Haliburton were there you could experiment with the big PG, little shooting guard concept to maybe get Mitchell going more, and to take pressure off him needing to be able to shoot. He'd at least be able to play next to Haliburton and focus on defense.

Haliburton was not a great with Fox and Sabonis makes more sense. Kings don’t need another 3 point shooting guard