2022-23 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.1)

timO · Post #241 » by **timO** » Sun Oct 30, 2022 11:05 am

Anteto and 5-0

HotRocks34 · Post #242 » by **HotRocks34** » Sun Oct 30, 2022 11:17 am

Giannis back in full command as the Bucks improve to 5-0 and the Luka Mavs choke away a game big to OKC.

It's been several years since Giannis won his last award. Voter Fatigue, IMO, should be a thing of the past.

Also, he's won a title and FMVP since then. So his greatness has only been more reinforced since his last MVP.

He's in control of the MVP chess board right now.

OkcSinceSGA · Post #243 » by **OkcSinceSGA** » Sun Oct 30, 2022 3:47 pm

JN61 wrote:
NaturalThunder wrote:How about SGA so far? I know longterm he isn't an MVP candidate, but through 6 games he's been pretty great.

31.0 PPG, 5.0 RPG, 7.0 APG, 2.4 SPG, 1.2 BPG, 49.6% FG (59/119), 36.8% 3P (7/19), 100% FT (30/30), 58.6% TS

In easier to read format: 31-7-5-2-1 on 50/37/100 shooting.

He is the real deal but lets be honest. Half of the league would be in this kind of discussion after handful of games. To me talking about MVP this early is always pointless. Get few good games in and you are in meaningless discussion. Lets see after 10 more games where these players start dropping into.

As much as I like to root to these guys there are simply monsters like Jokic, Giannis and Doncic out there.

He averaged 31/6/5 the second half of last season if I recall. He was doing this nightly. Not to say he’s better than that 3 headed Euro monster of MVP level guys, but we are way passed “let’s wait and see if he keeps doing it” stage with SGA.

Exp0sed · Post #244 » by **Exp0sed** » Sun Oct 30, 2022 10:03 pm

Yeah, SGA is for real but he'll need to play more games and for the Thunder to be better than they are
so not this season, but he can be in future conversations he's the real deal

cgf · Post #245 » by **cgf** » Sun Oct 30, 2022 10:53 pm

Obi is so much fun in transition.

Roger Murdock · Post #246 » by **Roger Murdock** » Sun Oct 30, 2022 11:03 pm

Mitchell has been so good

Post #247 » by **INKtastic** » Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:38 am

Roger Murdock wrote:Mitchell has been so good

I had no idea he was this good.

HotRocks34 · Post #248 » by **HotRocks34** » Mon Oct 31, 2022 12:47 am

Time to talk Mitchell

robbie84 · Post #249 » by **robbie84** » Mon Oct 31, 2022 10:23 am

yoyoboy wrote:
CobraCommander wrote:ALSO. Trae is on the same level as Curry and Luka when it comes to defense....they all kinda suck at it...trae may suck worse and Luka may suck the least.... BUT THEY ALL SUCK DEFENSIVELY- Come on...let’s love them but be honest

I just completely disagree with this. The advanced metrics don’t support this at all either, as Trae consistently ranks at the bottom of the league defensively, while Steph usually rates out above average in defensive impact. Steph is pesky, strong for his size, gets in the passing lanes, boxes out and rebounds well, and has become smart with rotations. Trae just completely dies on screens and is then out of the play on a defensive possession, is way too small/weak to bother anybody on drives or provide any real help defense, and doesn’t even have great effort or instincts, which not having is basically a death sentence when you’re already so undersized.

Saying well they’re all bad anyways 1. ignores there are levels to how bad you can be that make a huge difference in overall impact, just as there’s a difference between a good offensive player like current Kevin Love and an amazing one like Nikola Jokic; and 2. tells me you’re buying into narratives and not really looking at the numbers or watching these guys closely. As for Doncic, he would probably be as bad as Trae on defense if he were the same size, but fortunately for him size matters. It allows him to have a presence on the boards and be more switchable without getting totally abused. I think he’s below average, but again, nowhere near as bad as Trae.

The problem is that Steph's supporting cast and team's defense are much, much better than Trae's too.
I get your points though.

KGtabake · Post #250 » by **KGtabake** » Mon Oct 31, 2022 3:44 pm

No offense to any candidates but with how the season has started and barring dramatic events, this is Giannis vs Luka.

Roger Murdock · Post #251 » by **Roger Murdock** » Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:07 pm

Giannis vs Luka is the clear lead

Other contenders, who I am defining as ‘on pace for all NBA 1 or 2 team’ are Jokic, Booker, Curry, Mitchell, Siakem, Morant, Tatum, Young

Right now Guards are far outperforming forwards and centers

Roger Murdock · Post #252 » by **Roger Murdock** » Mon Oct 31, 2022 4:09 pm

robbie84 wrote:
yoyoboy wrote:
CobraCommander wrote:ALSO. Trae is on the same level as Curry and Luka when it comes to defense....they all kinda suck at it...trae may suck worse and Luka may suck the least.... BUT THEY ALL SUCK DEFENSIVELY- Come on...let’s love them but be honest

I just completely disagree with this. The advanced metrics don’t support this at all either, as Trae consistently ranks at the bottom of the league defensively, while Steph usually rates out above average in defensive impact. Steph is pesky, strong for his size, gets in the passing lanes, boxes out and rebounds well, and has become smart with rotations. Trae just completely dies on screens and is then out of the play on a defensive possession, is way too small/weak to bother anybody on drives or provide any real help defense, and doesn’t even have great effort or instincts, which not having is basically a death sentence when you’re already so undersized.

Saying well they’re all bad anyways 1. ignores there are levels to how bad you can be that make a huge difference in overall impact, just as there’s a difference between a good offensive player like current Kevin Love and an amazing one like Nikola Jokic; and 2. tells me you’re buying into narratives and not really looking at the numbers or watching these guys closely. As for Doncic, he would probably be as bad as Trae on defense if he were the same size, but fortunately for him size matters. It allows him to have a presence on the boards and be more switchable without getting totally abused. I think he’s below average, but again, nowhere near as bad as Trae.

The problem is that Steph's supporting cast and team's defense are much, much better than Trae's too.
I get your points though.

Stephs supporting cast is always defensive specialists because if you can set picks, catch, and pass the Warriors are a lock for a high performing offense. Curry’s play style allows the Warriors to play 3 defensive specialists at all times. Warriors have ranked as a top level defense for like 10 seasons now because of this.

While Curry isn’t a lock down defender he’s a tremendously positive defensive asset because he allows defensive specialists to perform at a high level offensively when they would struggle in other situations.

Niko23 · Post #253 » by **Niko23** » Mon Oct 31, 2022 5:09 pm

Props to Donovan Mitchell. Man - NY played well last night too. It is going to be interesting when Garland comes back.

Post #254 » by **bisme37** » Mon Oct 31, 2022 5:58 pm

Read on Twitter

Antinomy · Post #255 » by **Antinomy** » Mon Oct 31, 2022 6:28 pm

Giannis leads the league in BPM, Drtg, DWS, WS48 & DBPM — while also being #2 or #3 in nearly every other advanced category.

34.7 PER, 65%TS — 34/14/6 w/ 1.6 bpg

Dude might be gearing up for another MVP & DPOY sweep.

Oscar9992 · Post #256 » by **Oscar9992** » Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:10 pm

Antinomy wrote:Giannis leads the league in BPM, Drtg, DWS, WS48 & DBPM — while also being #2 or #3 in nearly every other advanced category.

34.7 PER, 65%TS — 34/14/6 w/ 1.6 bpg

Dude might be gearing up for another MVP & DPOY sweep.

It's too early though. If it's close race between Giannis & someone else than Giannis might lose thanks to voters' fatigue.

GSWFan1994 · Post #257 » by **GSWFan1994** » Mon Oct 31, 2022 8:49 pm

Yet, according to some people, Giannis is "underperforming".

Post #258 » by **tsherkin** » Mon Oct 31, 2022 8:57 pm

GSWFan1994 wrote:Yet, according to some people, Giannis is "underperforming".

Which is, of course, ludicrous. 34.4 / 14.0 / 5.8, 35.3% from 3, 125 ORTG, 64.5% TS, +8.7 OBPM, league-high .337 WS/48, league-high +5.1 DBPM. I mean, it's super early and he isn't going to maintain these specific numbers, but even 80% of that would be a phenomenal season and he may well maintain more than that. Giannis is an absolute monster. And if he maintains a competent level of 3pt shooting, he's going to be effectively unguardable.

mediocrityrules · Post #259 » by **mediocrityrules** » Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:01 pm

I think it's reasonable to assume that Giannis' scoring may go down slightly when Middleton comes back, but not much. At the moment it's others stepping in each night to fill the Middleton void. I expect Middleton's impact to affect the other players' scoring (Holiday, Lopez, Portis etc) more than Giannis. Personally, i think that it frees Giannis a little more to have Middleton spacing the floor.

It will also be interesting to see if the Giannis/Ingles pick and roll becomes a thing in the second half of the season when Ingles comes into the side.

jokeboy86 · Post #260 » by **jokeboy86** » Mon Oct 31, 2022 9:22 pm

Oscar9992 wrote:
Antinomy wrote:Giannis leads the league in BPM, Drtg, DWS, WS48 & DBPM — while also being #2 or #3 in nearly every other advanced category.

34.7 PER, 65%TS — 34/14/6 w/ 1.6 bpg

Dude might be gearing up for another MVP & DPOY sweep.

It's too early though. If it's close race between Giannis & someone else than Giannis might lose thanks to voters' fatigue.

You could be right plus the media still kind of thinks of Giannis as boring unfortunately. Can you imagine if Steph, Lebron or Durant's teams had started 5-0 and how much coverage or hyping of them we would hear about it? Giannis is a mix between Duncan/Yao where he's a big deal internationally(Yao) and in his market(Duncan) but he doesn't generate enough clicks/eyeballs or social media discussion to the talking heads and media like say KD/Steph/Lebron

It's early but who is your current NBA MVP?