Killian Hayes is Really...Bad

[GreatWhiteStiff]

I was trashing Kill a few years ago when he was a draft prospect. I called him another Dante Exum, with all of Exum's flaws. Alot of posters started trashing me and said i was trolling and racist..... LOL

lol k Yeah nice but exum was a legit nba player for a very short period.

[jeeph]

Piston first rounders

Year, Round, Pick
2020 1 7 Killian Hayes France ratiopharm Ulm (Germany)
2020 1 16 Isaiah Stewart United States Washington
2019 1 15 Sekou Doumbouya France Limoges CSP
2017 1 12 Luke Kennard United States Duke
2016 1 18 Henry Ellenson United States Marquette
2015 1 8 Stanley Johnson United States Arizona
2013 1 8 Kentavious Caldwell-Pope United States Georgia
2012 1 9 Andre Drummond United States Connecticut
2011 1 8 Brandon Knight United States Kentucky
2010 1 7 Greg Monroe United States Georgetown
2009 1 15 Austin Daye United States Gonzaga
2008 1 29 D. J. White United States Indiana
2007 1 15 Rodney Stuckey United States Eastern Washington
2007 1 27 Arron Afflalo United States UCLA
2005 1 26 Jason Maxiell United States Cincinnati
2003 1 2 Darko Miličić Serbia and Montenegro Hemofarm Vršac (Serbia and Montenegro and Adriatic League)
2003 1 25 Carlos Delfino Argentina Skipper Bologna (Italy)
2002 1 23 Tayshaun Prince United States Kentucky
2001 1 9 Rodney White United States Charlotte
2000 1 14 Mateen Cleaves United States Michigan State
1998 1 11 Bonzi Wells United States Ball State
1997 1 19 Scot Pollard United States Kansas
1996 1 26 Jerome Williams United States Georgetown
1995 1 18 Theo Ratliff United States Wyoming
1995 1 19 Randolph Childress United States Wake Forest
1994 1 3 Grant Hill United States Duke
1993 1 10 Lindsey Hunter United States Jackson State
1993 1 11 Allan Houston United States Tennessee
1992 1 19 Don MacLean United States UCLA

The Cavs have a bad draft history too. Then had two good drafts out of three, got a steal in a trade, made some good FA moves and trades, and 4 years later they are looking pretty nice. It can turn around fast, if things go right.

The last two DET drafts are...
2022 1 5 Ivey
Aquired Duren for future 1st.
2021 1 1 Cade
...and looks solid.
They need one more good draft and a good FA/trade to add to that (and Livers, Stew and Bey) but it's not that far away. DET, ORL, HOU, and OKC are all primed to take a step up with just a couple more pieces each.

[ConSarnit]

I think the majority of Pistons fans are pretty disappointed with how Hayes has turned out and would be OK with moving on from him. We walked away from that draft with Beef Stew at #16 and Bey at #19 which makes it an easier pill to swallow. Unfortunately Weaver confirmed the 4th year of Hayes's contract just before the season started so we're likely stuck with him at 7.3M next year (I can't imagine any other teams are lining up to trade for him at that price).

Yeah, bold move guaranteeing that salary based on what he's shown so far. I'd think most comparably poor performers would have had their option years declined.

I don't get it at all. They could have declined his option and signed him for 7.3 over 3 years if they really wanted to keep him. Who is possibly lining up to sign this guy?

Weaver sure likes to hand out money to high lotto busts.

[HotelVitale]

I think the majority of Pistons fans are pretty disappointed with how Hayes has turned out and would be OK with moving on from him. We walked away from that draft with Beef Stew at #16 and Bey at #19 which makes it an easier pill to swallow. Unfortunately Weaver confirmed the 4th year of Hayes's contract just before the season started so we're likely stuck with him at 7.3M next year (I can't imagine any other teams are lining up to trade for him at that price).

Yeah, bold move guaranteeing that salary based on what he's shown so far. I'd think most comparably poor performers would have had their option years declined.

I don't get it at all. They could have declined his option and signed him for 7.3 over 3 years if they really wanted to keep him. Who is possibly lining up to sign this guy? Weaver sure likes to hand out money to high lotto busts.

It's a tougher choice because you have to decide without knowing how he's going to look for the next 12+ months. I agree that Hayes is probably toast and they don't need to worry much about losing him, but it's kind of about hedging the upside here--if Hayes has a 10% chance of putting things together this year and becoming a really nice player, it might well be worth guaranteeing $7m that you don't really need, rather than freeing it up and losing that 10% shot.

[-Luke-]

historically

What would be his historical comp this early in his career for how bad he’s been relative to draft position?

Tskitishvili

Lol, haven't heard that name in quite some time.

[pacers33]

historically

What would be his historical comp this early in his career for how bad he’s been relative to draft position?

Tskitishvili

A summer league and NBA Live God from a better time.

[ConSarnit]

Yeah, bold move guaranteeing that salary based on what he's shown so far. I'd think most comparably poor performers would have had their option years declined.

I don't get it at all. They could have declined his option and signed him for 7.3 over 3 years if they really wanted to keep him. Who is possibly lining up to sign this guy? Weaver sure likes to hand out money to high lotto busts.

It's a tougher choice because you have to decide without knowing how he's going to look for the next 12+ months. I agree that Hayes is probably toast and they don't need to worry much about losing him, but it's kind of about hedging the upside here--if Hayes has a 10% chance of putting things together this year and becoming a really nice player, it might well be worth guaranteeing $7m that you don't really need, rather than freeing it up and losing that 10% shot.

Yeah, obviously for the Pistons it doesn't really matter because they probably won't have a ton of options to use that money next year. Costs them nothing in the long run. Maybe ends up as filler in a trade. Hayes just really really really sucks.

[JRoy]

What would be his historical comp this early in his career for how bad he’s been relative to draft position?

Tskitishvili

A summer league and NBA Live God from a better time.

Skita?

[HotelVitale]

I don't get it at all. They could have declined his option and signed him for 7.3 over 3 years if they really wanted to keep him. Who is possibly lining up to sign this guy? Weaver sure likes to hand out money to high lotto busts.

It's a tougher choice because you have to decide without knowing how he's going to look for the next 12+ months. I agree that Hayes is probably toast and they don't need to worry much about losing him, but it's kind of about hedging the upside here--if Hayes has a 10% chance of putting things together this year and becoming a really nice player, it might well be worth guaranteeing $7m that you don't really need, rather than freeing it up and losing that 10% shot.

Yeah, obviously for the Pistons it doesn't really matter because they probably won't have a ton of options to use that money next year. Costs them nothing in the long run. Maybe ends up as filler in a trade. Hayes just really really really sucks.

They also set up those contract options so they tend toward the draft pick; they're technically not guaranteed but you have to decide so early that not that many people end up getting cut. Plus if you cut the player he has to play that whole year knowing he's not part of the team's future, and the coaching staff has to operate with that in mind too. Teams still sometimes don't pick up rook options but it's pretty rare and I think all that stuff is a factor in that. Teams generally only do it if they really need the $ for a FA binge (or sometimes the roster spot).

[FreeBird23]

This guy is really really bad.

The only thing he can do right is passing the ball.

I mean, in 8 games :

FG > 8/47 = 17%
3pts > 2/15 = 13%

[baldur]

new ntikilina.

[timO]

2020: Rd 1, Pick 7 sheeeeeeit

[edmunder_prc]

If I'm Weaver, Killian has a "minor injury" and is told to spend 6 hours a day shooting and learning to shoot basic shots.

That's it. Basic stuff. If after 2-3 months it looks better, put him back in and see how he does.

[hippesthippo]

Yeah, I assure you, he's been as bad as the stats would suggest. This definitely isn't a situation where someone brings a ton of intangibles that don't show up in the stat sheet (not that there's any amount of intangibles that would justify these stats).

We're still keeping the hope alive, but it's definitely waning. He had the excuse of the injury last year that allowed us to keep that hope going because it kind of gave him a built-in excuse (he had been awful before the injury, but that was only 7 games, after all), but there's definitely a point where those excuses run out. Either you have game or you don't.

He was supposed to be a big guard in the mold of Harden. Not particularly athletic, but he had that quick first step and also showcased above average vision and strong defensive potential. His handle, shot and finishing were all major question marks, but those are things that can be worked on.

You can't teach size and first step.

Unfortunately, he was more raw than most fans were expecting from his draft slot. Then he had a near career ending hip injury and his first step disappeared and is never going to come back.

He still has a small chance at being a backup point guard that can get the team into their sets while playing above average defense. It's looking increasingly unlikely to happen on this Pistons team tho.

[hippesthippo]

2020: Rd 1, Pick 7 sheeeeeeit

Look at the rest of the lotto picks after him tho. Yeah, we should have taken Haliburton. 90% of RealGM members wanted their team to take Haliburton.

I have no clue why we passed on Haliburton, but otherwise none of the next 8 picks have done much themselves. Jalen Smith is putting up numbers in Indiana, but he's being spoon fed and he was a huuuuuuge reach at the time. Obi Toppin has finally earned himself some minutes and looks decent in the highlights I guess.

Heck, even the 3 guys taken ahead of Hayes haven't really done anything. Onyeka, Okoro, and Pat Williams. It just wasn't a very good draft class that year. Wiseman went #2 and he may be the only other player in the league getting minutes that is worse.

[Exp0sed]

Yeah, I assure you, he's been as bad as the stats would suggest. This definitely isn't a situation where someone brings a ton of intangibles that don't show up in the stat sheet (not that there's any amount of intangibles that would justify these stats).

We're still keeping the hope alive, but it's definitely waning. He had the excuse of the injury last year that allowed us to keep that hope going because it kind of gave him a built-in excuse (he had been awful before the injury, but that was only 7 games, after all), but there's definitely a point where those excuses run out. Either you have game or you don't.

He was supposed to be a big guard in the mold of Harden. Not particularly athletic, but he had that quick first step and also showcased above average vision and strong defensive potential. His handle, shot and finishing were all major question marks, but those are things that can be worked on.

You can't teach size and first step.

Unfortunately, he was more raw than most fans were expecting from his draft slot. Then he had a near career ending hip injury and his first step disappeared and is never going to come back.

He still has a small chance at being a backup point guard that can get the team into their sets while playing above average defense. It's looking increasingly unlikely to happen on this Pistons team tho.

it's not about being "raw"

raw is a guy that started playing when he was 14 or something
or a guy who played mostly pickup but doesn't have a grasp on how to play pro team ball

If a guy is this bad at shooting, in the shooting era with all the tools and coaching techniques - he is probably just really not a natural talent for basketball or isn't ready to put in work at all or both

Hayes isn't coddled Simmons i'm sure if he wasn't willing to put in the work he'd be benched and waived by now

since he did put in work and that's how he shoots...he's just not a talented basketball player and he won't become one

[hippesthippo]

Yeah, I assure you, he's been as bad as the stats would suggest. This definitely isn't a situation where someone brings a ton of intangibles that don't show up in the stat sheet (not that there's any amount of intangibles that would justify these stats).

We're still keeping the hope alive, but it's definitely waning. He had the excuse of the injury last year that allowed us to keep that hope going because it kind of gave him a built-in excuse (he had been awful before the injury, but that was only 7 games, after all), but there's definitely a point where those excuses run out. Either you have game or you don't.

He was supposed to be a big guard in the mold of Harden. Not particularly athletic, but he had that quick first step and also showcased above average vision and strong defensive potential. His handle, shot and finishing were all major question marks, but those are things that can be worked on.

You can't teach size and first step.

Unfortunately, he was more raw than most fans were expecting from his draft slot. Then he had a near career ending hip injury and his first step disappeared and is never going to come back.

He still has a small chance at being a backup point guard that can get the team into their sets while playing above average defense. It's looking increasingly unlikely to happen on this Pistons team tho.

it's not about being "raw"

raw is a guy that started playing when he was 14 or something
or a guy who played mostly pickup but doesn't have a grasp on how to play pro team ball

If a guy is this bad at shooting, in the shooting era with all the tools and coaching techniques - he is probably just really not a natural talent for basketball or isn't ready to put in work at all or both

Hayes isn't coddled Simmons i'm sure if he wasn't willing to put in the work he'd be benched and waived by now

since he did put in work and that's how he shoots...he's just not a talented basketball player and he won't become one

You're all over the place, so I'll keep my response simple: he sucks.

If he hadn't injured his hip, he had as good a chance at becoming a solid rotation player as any of the other players drafted near his slot.

[Pointgod]

This guy is really really bad.

The only thing he can do right is passing the ball.

I mean, in 8 games :

FG > 8/47 = 17%
3pts > 2/15 = 13%

Yikes. Makes Russell Westbrook look like Ray Allen

[JackTalkThai]

I don’t think we’ll know what Hayes potential is until he gets a new start with a different organization which he will because his days with the pistons are numbered. Right now, it doesn’t even seem like he’s trying to do anything offensive. What little confidence he had in the preseason and in the past is completely gone.

[celticfan42487]

Don't worry guys I really wanted him in the draft and thought he could be an ideal modern "big" PG that helps with the switches and makes it so there isn't a glaring hole in your defense at that position.

So given my track record occasionally one of my swings won't be a miss! He may be one of them eventually!