Killian Hayes is Really...Bad

[TravisScott55]

Pistons are horrible at developing talent

[Ferulci]

As a Frenchie, it's heartbreaking to see that generation of French lottery picks absolutely suck (Hayes, Doumbouya, Ntilikina to a slightly lesser extent). They were supposed to be the bridge between Fournier/Gobert and Wembamyama/Pietrus/Risacher.

[Mr Peanut]

Pistons are horrible at developing talent

Examples besides Killian?

And everything prior to 2018 is null and void as the current coaching staff wasn't there.

[TravisScott55]

Pistons are horrible at developing talent

Examples besides Killian?

And everything prior to 2018 is null and void as the current coaching staff wasn't there.

Fine, prior to 2018 the Pistons were horrible at developing talent

[gorz]

Some players have/had the great fortune of having favoritism or politics on their side. Killian Hayes is one of them. Majority of nba players throughout history that have sucked as bad as he has would have been trashed mercilessly by fans calling him a scrub and would have been cut or in the dog house long time ago.

[BadWolf]

Pistons are horrible at developing talent

Examples besides Killian?

And everything prior to 2018 is null and void as the current coaching staff wasn't there.

Sekou, Ellenson , Stanley Johnson, Kennard, Knight , Singler and many more.

We could also say they're bad at this whole draft thing. And sure, we can blame it on the previous regime, why not. Cade and Ivey do look great, though they were really high picks and they did hit on Bey and Stew later in draft. Still, they had a long period of mostly busts.

[Liam_Gallagher]

This thread aged well.

[7r5ur]

Pistons are horrible at developing talent

Examples besides Killian?

And everything prior to 2018 is null and void as the current coaching staff wasn't there.

Sekou, Ellenson , Stanley Johnson, Kennard, Knight , Singler and many more.

We could also say they're bad at this whole draft thing. And sure, we can blame it on the previous regime, why not. Cade and Ivey do look great, though they were really high picks and they did hit on Bey and Stew later in draft. Still, they had a long period of mostly busts.

The Post-Billups trade, Pre-Troy Weaver era was a dark period in Pistons history that we'd prefer not to talk about

As for Killian, I think somewhat he was a beneficiary of the weird scouting season in 2020 where it was hard to see these guys in real basketball situations leading up to the draft. On paper he's big, has solid handles, nice court vision, and is scrappy on defense. Apparently the total inability to put the ball in the hoop was not as clear then as it is today, and that's a difficult problem to overcome. It's just bizarre how many bad players there are in that draft that were taken over Haliburton.

Thankfully, Weaver hasn't made too many whiffs like that one with Cade, Ivey, Duren, Bey, and Stewart all looking like solid rotation guys at the absolute worst. 5 out of 6 is a pretty solid hit rate.

[tmorgan]

I love defending Pistons vs. horrible takes on the GB.

But nope, can’t do that here.

[Moses ShamMoses]

Killian Hayes is a curious case. He has really good size and strength for the PG position. He has really solid court vision and accuracy on his passes. He is a willing defender and has quick hands. But that's all he has. Absolutely no feel or confidence shooting or scoring the basketball. If he somehow develops in those areas, low probability at this point, he becomes a very good starter on many teams. I guess he sort of reminds me of Spencer Dinwiddie when he was with the Pistons. Just not confident yet and needed more time. Eventually Spencer figured it out and went on to a successful career. I'd rather the Pistons find out (good or bad) then some other team.

[whitehops]

as bad as his stats look, he's worse than his stats. he showed red flags back as a rookie when he struggled with his dribble, couldn't run a pick and roll and didn't even know how to run a fast break. you can say "well he was a rookie" but those are like basic, essential things for any nba guard and the fact that he struggled so much with them was a major red flag.

even now, in his third season, he doesn't have any dribble moves to get him by his defender. he looks lost trying to run the offense off the bench. he has no scoring plan when he does get into the paint and has no layup package so he just tries contested hook shots/floaters.

i still can't believe we picked up his fourth year option. we could've played out the year and then he would've been another team's problem. instead we're paying him $7 million next season when he shouldn't even be in the rotation this season.

[tmorgan]

If this were football and he could play defense only, he’d be starter caliber.

But he’s the worst offensive player in the league, man.

[Duke4life831]

See this thread makes sense, unlike the weird Cade one. There are long stretches of really good play from Cade that we can already point to as to reasons to be high on him still. Entering year 3, Im not sure Hayes has had double digit solid games in the NBA, let alone showing flashes of being a star. Whenever I have seen Hayes play, he just looks like a 2nd rounder who shouldnt be getting minutes in the NBA.

[timO]

2020: Rd 1, Pick 7 sheeeeeeit

Look at the rest of the lotto picks after him tho. Yeah, we should have taken Haliburton. 90% of RealGM members wanted their team to take Haliburton.

I have no clue why we passed on Haliburton, but otherwise none of the next 8 picks have done much themselves. Jalen Smith is putting up numbers in Indiana, but he's being spoon fed and he was a huuuuuuge reach at the time. Obi Toppin has finally earned himself some minutes and looks decent in the highlights I guess.

Heck, even the 3 guys taken ahead of Hayes haven't really done anything. Onyeka, Okoro, and Pat Williams. It just wasn't a very good draft class that year. Wiseman went #2 and he may be the only other player in the league getting minutes that is worse.

Yeah bad draft but come on those players at least Will be role players or end of the bench, hayes is bad even for china.

[UcanUwill]

2020: Rd 1, Pick 7 sheeeeeeit

Look at the rest of the lotto picks after him tho. Yeah, we should have taken Haliburton. 90% of RealGM members wanted their team to take Haliburton.

I have no clue why we passed on Haliburton, but otherwise none of the next 8 picks have done much themselves. Jalen Smith is putting up numbers in Indiana, but he's being spoon fed and he was a huuuuuuge reach at the time. Obi Toppin has finally earned himself some minutes and looks decent in the highlights I guess.

Heck, even the 3 guys taken ahead of Hayes haven't really done anything. Onyeka, Okoro, and Pat Williams. It just wasn't a very good draft class that year. Wiseman went #2 and he may be the only other player in the league getting minutes that is worse.

Yeah bad draft but come on those players at least Will be role players or end of the bench, hayes is bad even for china.

Too early to tell, but I think Toppin and especially Okongwu still have loads of potential. Obi was obvious pick anyway, they reached for Killian, and he just doesn't belong sadly.

I dont know why, but we really had a period of overrating French guys in the draft. Like, in Soccer we now have memes that if guy would be English, he would instantly be worth 40 million more, this what was happening to French guys and NBA draft for some reason. I didnt know Killian, I am not gonna act he was bad prospect, but I knew Doumbaya, I said multiple times that guy is huge bust, like it was obvious dude, guy was just flat out bad, I remember writing long rants on clueless youtube videos that were comparing that guy to Doncic, that actually happened.
Similar thing happened to Argentinian guys when they reach WC finals. Like for some reason we had to bring Vildoza and Deck over, what? At least I preached to bring Facu for years, thats actually my bad I guess...

[Capn'O]

Killian Hayes is a curious case. He has really good size and strength for the PG position. He has really solid court vision and accuracy on his passes. He is a willing defender and has quick hands. But that's all he has. Absolutely no feel or confidence shooting or scoring the basketball. If he somehow develops in those areas, low probability at this point, he becomes a very good starter on many teams. I guess he sort of reminds me of Spencer Dinwiddie when he was with the Pistons. Just not confident yet and needed more time. Eventually Spencer figured it out and went on to a successful career. I'd rather the Pistons find out (good or bad) then some other team.

He had me fooled. I looked at his passing ability, measurables, and stats and figured we'd have a player. Even looked like he'd get his shot right. And he sucks.

I haven't watched much of him in the NBA but is his athleticism sub par?

[Capn'O]

Look at the rest of the lotto picks after him tho. Yeah, we should have taken Haliburton. 90% of RealGM members wanted their team to take Haliburton.

I have no clue why we passed on Haliburton, but otherwise none of the next 8 picks have done much themselves. Jalen Smith is putting up numbers in Indiana, but he's being spoon fed and he was a huuuuuuge reach at the time. Obi Toppin has finally earned himself some minutes and looks decent in the highlights I guess.

Heck, even the 3 guys taken ahead of Hayes haven't really done anything. Onyeka, Okoro, and Pat Williams. It just wasn't a very good draft class that year. Wiseman went #2 and he may be the only other player in the league getting minutes that is worse.

Yeah bad draft but come on those players at least Will be role players or end of the bench, hayes is bad even for china.

Too early to tell, but I think Toppin and especially Okongwu still have loads of potential. Obi was obvious pick anyway, they reached for Killian, and he just doesn't belong sadly.

I dont know why, but we really had a period of overrating French guys in the draft. Like, in Soccer we now have memes that if guy would be English, he would instantly be worth 40 million more, this what was happening to French guys and NBA draft for some reason. I didnt know Killian, I am not gonna act he was bad prospect, but I knew Doumbaya, I said multiple times that guy is huge bust, like it was obvious dude, guy was just flat out bad, I remember writing long rants on clueless youtube videos that were comparing that guy to Doncic, that actually happened.
Similar thing happened to Argentinian guys when they reach WC finals. Like for some reason we had to bring Vildoza and Deck over, what? At least I preached to bring Facu for years, thats actually my bad I guess...

Sekou was super obvious. He just wasn't good.

[tmorgan]

Killian Hayes is a curious case. He has really good size and strength for the PG position. He has really solid court vision and accuracy on his passes. He is a willing defender and has quick hands. But that's all he has. Absolutely no feel or confidence shooting or scoring the basketball. If he somehow develops in those areas, low probability at this point, he becomes a very good starter on many teams. I guess he sort of reminds me of Spencer Dinwiddie when he was with the Pistons. Just not confident yet and needed more time. Eventually Spencer figured it out and went on to a successful career. I'd rather the Pistons find out (good or bad) then some other team.

He had me fooled. I looked at his passing ability, measurables, and stats and figured we'd have a player. Even looked like he'd get his shot right. And he sucks.

I haven't watched much of him in the NBA but is his athleticism sub par?

Eh, Killian’s a good enough athlete to play in the NBA. Insanely quick hands, pretty strong, average speed and quickness. Good court vision, no confidence issues defensively. Always guards with effort.

Wish that was the whole story. One handed (left) to his detriment, no go-to moves, no touch, no feel for getting open or creating separation. Ugly shot, poor shot selection, zero confidence when left open. Total disaster on offense.

[MrBigShot]

I'd say he is a an average athlete by NBA standards.

He can't shoot, he can't get to the rim, he can't finish at the rim, his handle sucks. Passing ability is irrelevant if you can't run an offense as a guard, so all you really have is a guy that is passable defensively. I could tell within the first few weeks of his 2nd year he was not an NBA player...no improvement, constant deer in the headlights demeanor.

[bstein14]

Killian Hayes is a curious case. He has really good size and strength for the PG position. He has really solid court vision and accuracy on his passes. He is a willing defender and has quick hands. But that's all he has. Absolutely no feel or confidence shooting or scoring the basketball. If he somehow develops in those areas, low probability at this point, he becomes a very good starter on many teams. I guess he sort of reminds me of Spencer Dinwiddie when he was with the Pistons. Just not confident yet and needed more time. Eventually Spencer figured it out and went on to a successful career. I'd rather the Pistons find out (good or bad) then some other team.

He had me fooled. I looked at his passing ability, measurables, and stats and figured we'd have a player. Even looked like he'd get his shot right. And he sucks.

I haven't watched much of him in the NBA but is his athleticism sub par?

Eh, Killian’s a good enough athlete to play in the NBA. Insanely quick hands, pretty strong, average speed and quickness. Good court vision, no confidence issues defensively. Always guards with effort.

Wish that was the whole story. One handed (left) to his detriment, no go-to moves, no touch, no feel for getting open or creating separation. Ugly shot, poor shot selection, zero confidence when left open. Total disaster on offense.

He's definately one of the worst "athletes' on the team and he's for sure below average foot speed and quickness for a PG compared to other PGs in the league.

Saben Lee is athletic with some foot speed. Killian has "size and strength" for a PG sure but he doesn't have blow by speed at all to get to the rim.... and if he does get to the rim he doesn't have the athleticism or skillset to finish as the basket either.