Duren a starter? How to make it work?

[Billl]

The team would be better with Duren starting and playing like he's capable of. The problem is he picked up 3 fouls in a couple minutes. He's going to do that A LOT. It's going to be really hard to start him until he is capable of playing starters minutes.

[bstein14]

I'd keep bringing Duren off the bench but have him be the first sub in coming in for one of Bojan or Bey... then have that player come back in to start the 2nd and pretty much play the entire 2nd quarter just about.

[buzzkilloton]

The team would be better with Duren starting and playing like he's capable of. The problem is he picked up 3 fouls in a couple minutes. He's going to do that A LOT. It's going to be really hard to start him until he is capable of playing starters minutes.

This is a consistent problem with young bigs. Duren isnt just young hes the youngest player ITL. You dont want to just throw him out vs all the most skilled offensive players right away as its going to lead to him being on the bench. It takes these guys awhile to learn to use their physical ability on defense in a way that doesnt draw the refs whistles.

We need to deploy him strategically. I wouldnt start him either. Getting him through the game so hes capable of playing important minutes later is how you want to use him.

[Kalamazoo317]

He could learn just fine in the starting lineup. Dude still got ten boards and didn’t foul out or anything. There were tons of fouls called on both sides tonight.

[grpistons]

Development wise, as long as he's playing at least 20-25 minutes a game, I don't think it will make a difference. But I actually think the line-ups are better balanced with Duren Starting.

[buzzkilloton]

He could learn just fine in the starting lineup. Dude still got ten boards and didn’t foul out or anything. There were tons of fouls called on both sides tonight.

It can take seasons for a young big to learn to play defense without getting handsy. Hes going to get more playing time over all by not starting games vs the most talented bigs that exist like Jokic/Embiid etc.

I'm not mentioning foul trouble because of any regular season games we seen by the way. Foul trouble was known about him when we drafted him and mentioned in scouting reports. If you watched last years NCAA tourney you seen it in play vs the Zags he only could play 19minutes because of foul trouble.

Obv we can adjust as we go but were two games in I dont get complaining about this right now. Hes playing great with the plan hes on. If he isnt getting in foul trouble and is playing well he will eventually start.

[DetroitSho]

"Demote Bey to the bench", "trade Bey", "Bey's not anything interesting". Boy it didn't take y'all long AT ALL. Relax y'all, all we gotta do is get rid of ball hogging Jerami Grant and..........oh......wait.

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[Piston Pete]

Bey was much more effective as a 3&D guy his rookie season - vs trying to be a versatile “score in many ways” type guy he’s looking to become. That’s just not his game.

I like Duren. But mentally, he’s not ready to start.

[Jamaaliver]

Kid needs some seasoning, but I think he's gonna be a legit starting caliber Center once he develops more.

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[Manocad]

Bey was much more effective as a 3&D guy his rookie season - vs trying to be a versatile “score in many ways” type guy he’s looking to become. That’s just not his game.

I like Duren. But mentally, he’s not ready to start.

I'm not sure what that means exactly. He can't understand his role in the offense, or in the defense? Doesn't do what he's supposed to do, i.e. blown assignments? Is going to be humiliated playing against opposing starting centers? He's just too young? If those are the types of reasons I guess I just don't see it. To me he simply looks like a rookie who's 5 games into his career; he could be 22 years old and have played 3-4 years of college ball and I wouldn't expect much more out of him after 5 games.

His 5 game averages are 8.2 PPG on 58.8%, 8.0 RPG, 1.2 BLK in 21.4 minutes. Extrapolate those numbers to 32.1 minutes (x1.5 to make the math easy) and you get 12.3 PPG, 12.0 RPG, and 1.8 BLK. And that's with nearly ZERO plays being run for him; to me those are pretty solid numbers for a rookie center. So I guess I just don't see how a determination can be made that he's not ready to start if he's never started.

[bstein14]

I'm on board with eventually starting Duren this season. It might make the most sense to push him into that starting lineup when Bagley comes back from injury. Continue to let Duren learn the NBA game the next few weeks, and then once Bagley comes back let Duren move into the starting lineup, most likely at the expense of Bey but also possibly Stewart depending on how those two guys are playing.

I think you can perhaps sell Bey on the fact its a short term move to better balance the rotation, and also that he gets to be the go to #1 guy on that 2nd unit where he's kind of a third thought with the starters behind Cade and Bojan.... maybe even 4th behind Ivey some nights.

Duren has been very solid for an 18 year old kid. He's not just using his athleticism, we've also seen several heads up plays with him. Sure he's super raw as far as offensive skillset goes, but as far as just stepping in and setting screens, helping on defense, etc he's been very good and will continue to get better. I don't think there's any chance he isn't a starter by next year so fast forwarding it to sometime this season makes a ton of sense if we can make it work roster wise.

[Piston Pete]

Bey was much more effective as a 3&D guy his rookie season - vs trying to be a versatile “score in many ways” type guy he’s looking to become. That’s just not his game.

I like Duren. But mentally, he’s not ready to start.

I'm not sure what that means exactly. He can't understand his role in the offense, or in the defense? Doesn't do what he's supposed to do, i.e. blown assignments? Is going to be humiliated playing against opposing starting centers?

All of this, yes.

I still want him getting minutes off the bench, but he’s not ready to start mentally, IMO

The last thing we need is for his psyche and confidence to take a hit going up against some of these starting C’s and getting abused on a nightly basis.

Just watch the Knicks game again. He was lost out there for a majority of his minutes.

Let the kid learn off the bench, and grow, while beating up opposing bench C’s - instead of being our opposing starting C’s whipping boy.

Like bstein said, maybe later this season, he could start. But right now, I don’t think he’s ready.

[Liqourish]

I'd like to see one game where we start cade-ivey-bojan-stew-duren. Put hayes-knox-bey-livers-noel off the bench.

[Manocad]

I'd like to see one game where we start cade-ivey-bojan-stew-duren. Put hayes-knox-bey-livers-noel off the bench.

I'd be down with that. Just instruct Hayes that he is only allowed to shoot the ball on a wide open breakaway. His jumper sucks, his floater sucks, and his drives to hoop suck.

[Liqourish]

I'd like to see one game where we start cade-ivey-bojan-stew-duren. Put hayes-knox-bey-livers-noel off the bench.

I'd be down with that. Just instruct Hayes that he is only allowed to shoot the ball on a wide open breakaway. His jumper sucks, his floater sucks, and his drives to hoop suck.

Killian wouldn't have to shoot. He'd be surrounded by shooters.

[Manocad]

I'd like to see one game where we start cade-ivey-bojan-stew-duren. Put hayes-knox-bey-livers-noel off the bench.

I'd be down with that. Just instruct Hayes that he is only allowed to shoot the ball on a wide open breakaway. His jumper sucks, his floater sucks, and his drives to hoop suck.

Killian wouldn't have to shoot. He'd be surrounded by shooters.

He doesn't ever HAVE to shoot, really. My point is obviously that he should be directed to NOT shoot, almost ever.

[bstein14]

I'd be down with that. Just instruct Hayes that he is only allowed to shoot the ball on a wide open breakaway. His jumper sucks, his floater sucks, and his drives to hoop suck.

Killian wouldn't have to shoot. He'd be surrounded by shooters.

He doesn't ever HAVE to shoot, really. My point is obviously that he should be directed to NOT shoot, almost ever.

But we all know defenses are smart. It's not like Killian can't shoot, but has the ability to score inside well (like Ben Simmons used to put up 16+ PPG on good FG%s.... If he's worse than Ben Wallace on offense he shouldn't be on the court at all if he isn't an elite all-nba team defender.... he's a good defender but not enough to make up for no offense.

If he was like Diallo, who can't shoot but can use his athleticism to attack the rim then sure play the kid. But he doesn't have that athleticism to score at the basket either. If he's no threat at all then the defense gets to essentially play 5 on 4.

Killian's ideal scenario would be to play with 4 other good offensive player, of whom can all shoot well but if we've got guys like Bagley, Duren, and Diallo playing with him you can't really put Killian out there and expect good results if he can't make 25% of his threes or 35% of his twos.

[Manocad]

Killian wouldn't have to shoot. He'd be surrounded by shooters.

He doesn't ever HAVE to shoot, really. My point is obviously that he should be directed to NOT shoot, almost ever.

But we all know defenses are smart. It's not like Killian can't shoot, but has the ability to score inside well (like Ben Simmons used to put up 16+ PPG on good FG%s.... If he's worse than Ben Wallace on offense he shouldn't be on the court at all if he isn't an elite all-nba team defender.... he's a good defender but not enough to make up for no offense.

If he was like Diallo, who can't shoot but can use his athleticism to attack the rim then sure play the kid. But he doesn't have that athleticism to score at the basket either. If he's no threat at all then the defense gets to essentially play 5 on 4.

Killian's ideal scenario would be to play with 4 other good offensive player, of whom can all shoot well but if we've got guys like Bagley, Duren, and Diallo playing with him you can't really put Killian out there and expect good results if he can't make 25% of his threes or 35% of his twos.

It wasn't about game planning for Killian. It was simply a tongue in cheek comment that if Killian's on the floor he should be directed not to shoot because he sucks at it.

[IAmKrazy2]

I feel after the first game Duren has a chance to work himself into the starting five maybe even fairly early in the season. Another few games like he had against the Magic, it would be hard not to start him.

IMO, there is a few options to make this work. Especially w/ MBIII out for a while.

Option One (my preference)
1. Cade
2. Ivey
3. Boj
4, Stu
5. Duren

This option gives us defense, and allows Boj to play the 3 spot. Boj will also struggle against a strong PF on D is and not a strong rebounder in the 4 spot. He is better suited to play SF. This also allows Bey to come off the bench where i feel he is better suited. We got a glimpse of the Stu/Duren lineup end of the Magic game and a lot to like IMO

Option Two
1. Cade
2. Ivey
3. Bey
4. Boj
5. Duren

This allows Stu to play off the bench and allows us to put another shooter in the starting lineup in Bey.

We could also consider a lineup w/ Boj coming off the bench but with his shooting and experience, I think this would be a poor choice.

When MBIII is back we have some more options too.

Thoughts? Think he is ready to start now or soon?

Going back to my initial post I am looking to see actual lineup options. I like that some people then listed the 5 backups.

I still like my first option to try Cade, Ivey, Boj, Stu, Duren - If Stu could increase his 3% I feel this could be a nice lineup against teams like Cleveland on Friday who have some good big's.

This would leave a current backups of Kill, Diallo, Livers, Bey, and Noel - Problem here is only two shooters, but a decent defensive group - could also sub in CoJo or Alex when healthy for Diallo or Kill

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Diallo and Kill drive me bananas because if they could be just average NBA shooters/finishers they both would have a ton of value but as is I of now i sort of hate seeing either, even if they can make things happen in other ways.

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Now assuming everyone is healthy again at once w/ Bags, / Alex, I can have more fun playing with lineups.