(LOCK THREAD) The LeBron James - 22-23 NBA Season Thread -NBA's All-Time Scoring Leader!

[falcolombardi]

Lebron vs kareem scoring ppg by age

19: lebron 21ppg, kareem ???
20: lebron 27 ppg, kareem ???
21: lebron 31 ppg, kareem???
22: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 29 ppg
23: lebron 30 ppg, kareem 32 ppg
24: lebron 28 ppg, kareem 35 ppg (!)
25: lebron 30 pgg, kareem 30 ppg
26: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 27 ppg
27: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 30 ppg
28: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 28 ppg
29: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 26 ppg
30: lebron 25 ppg, kareem 26 ppg
31:lebron 25 ppg, kareem 24 ppg
32: lebron 26 ppg, kareem 25 ppg
33: lebron 28 ppg, kareem 26 ppg
34: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 24 ppg
35: lebron 25 ppg, kareem 22 ppg
36: lebron 25 ppg, kareem 22 ppg
37: lebron 30 ppg, kareem 22 ppg
38: lebron* 26 ppg, kareem 23 ppg
39: lebron??? Ppg, kareem 17 ppg
40: lebron??? Ppg, kareem 15 ppg
41: lebron??? Ppg,kareem 10 ppg

38 is the current season pace for lebron*

Unless you think kareem was gonna be a 30 points a game scorer out of high school i am not seeing the argument lebron couldnt end with more points anyway

And that is assuming kareem would have perfect health those 4 years and that 4 more years of nba wear and tear wouldnt affect him down the road

[MyUniBroDavis]

Lebron vs kareem scoring ppg by age

19: lebron 21ppg, kareem ???
20: lebron 27 ppg, kareem ???
21: lebron 31 ppg, kareem???
22: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 29 ppg
23: lebron 30 ppg, kareem 32 ppg
24: lebron 28 ppg, kareem 35 ppg (!)
25: lebron 30 pgg, kareem 30 ppg
26: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 27 ppg
27: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 30 ppg
28: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 28 ppg
29: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 26 ppg
30: lebron 25 ppg, kareem 26 ppg
31:lebron 25 ppg, kareem 24 ppg
32: lebron 26 ppg, kareem 25 ppg
33: lebron 28 ppg, kareem 26 ppg
34: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 24 ppg
35: lebron 25 ppg, kareem 22 ppg
36: lebron 25 ppg, kareem 22 ppg
37: lebron 30 ppg, kareem 22 ppg
38: lebron* 26 ppg, kareem 23 ppg
39: lebron??? Ppg, kareem 17 ppg
40: lebron??? Ppg, kareem 15 ppg
41: lebron??? Ppg,kareem 10 ppg

38 is the current season pace for lebron*

Unless you think kareem was gonna be a 30 points a game scorer out of high school i am not seeing the argument lebron couldnt end with more points anyway

And that is assuming kareem would have perfect health those 4 years and that 4 more years of nba wear and tear wouldnt affect him down the road

I think bron certainly would have more if he wanted to regardless, but Tbf Kareem being a 30 point scorer out of highschool isn’t a hard argument to make right?

I’m on the west and rear side more than anything

[falcolombardi]

Lebron vs kareem scoring ppg by age

19: lebron 21ppg, kareem ???
20: lebron 27 ppg, kareem ???
21: lebron 31 ppg, kareem???
22: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 29 ppg
23: lebron 30 ppg, kareem 32 ppg
24: lebron 28 ppg, kareem 35 ppg (!)
25: lebron 30 pgg, kareem 30 ppg
26: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 27 ppg
27: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 30 ppg
28: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 28 ppg
29: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 26 ppg
30: lebron 25 ppg, kareem 26 ppg
31:lebron 25 ppg, kareem 24 ppg
32: lebron 26 ppg, kareem 25 ppg
33: lebron 28 ppg, kareem 26 ppg
34: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 24 ppg
35: lebron 25 ppg, kareem 22 ppg
36: lebron 25 ppg, kareem 22 ppg
37: lebron 30 ppg, kareem 22 ppg
38: lebron* 26 ppg, kareem 23 ppg
39: lebron??? Ppg, kareem 17 ppg
40: lebron??? Ppg, kareem 15 ppg
41: lebron??? Ppg,kareem 10 ppg

38 is the current season pace for lebron*

Unless you think kareem was gonna be a 30 points a game scorer out of high school i am not seeing the argument lebron couldnt end with more points anyway

And that is assuming kareem would have perfect health those 4 years and that 4 more years of nba wear and tear wouldnt affect him down the road

I think bron certainly would have more if he wanted to regardless, but Tbf Kareem being a 30 point scorer out of highschool isn’t a hard argument to make right?

I’m on the west and rear side more than anything

He was a 28 points a game scorer in his nba rookoe season after developing in college for 4 years,it would be essentially arguing that kareem didnt improve much in his 4 ucla years

Out of high school kareem had a less developed body and didnt have his skyhook yet just for the mpst obvious improvements he made in college

At least at his 18 years old season i cannot imagine kareem being a 27-30 points a game scorer,maybe by the second one like lebron

[LesGrossman]

I take it noone is actually interested in the games of the LA Lakers any more from any perspective other than LeBron beating some record? Reminds me of last season when the play-in was missed but everyone in here was all riled up over the scoring title.

The G.O.A.T. claim for LeBron should be a discussion of the past but he still has several accolades unique to him, that not even critical people like me can question. One of them, even though highly related to "luck", is his longevity. Took great care of his body all those years, stayed disciplined, never showed up out of shape or outright fat like some other superstars. Along with that comes the availability to play many games and many minutes. Theres no shame in accounting for that , it certainly plays a key role in the kareem thing.

However, there is almost a whole season of basketball to play and i'd much rather see the lakers turn things around and make it intersting again. Please not another farewell season.

[HeartBreakKid]

Lebron vs kareem scoring ppg by age

19: lebron 21ppg, kareem ???
20: lebron 27 ppg, kareem ???
21: lebron 31 ppg, kareem???
22: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 29 ppg
23: lebron 30 ppg, kareem 32 ppg
24: lebron 28 ppg, kareem 35 ppg (!)
25: lebron 30 pgg, kareem 30 ppg
26: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 27 ppg
27: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 30 ppg
28: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 28 ppg
29: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 26 ppg
30: lebron 25 ppg, kareem 26 ppg
31:lebron 25 ppg, kareem 24 ppg
32: lebron 26 ppg, kareem 25 ppg
33: lebron 28 ppg, kareem 26 ppg
34: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 24 ppg
35: lebron 25 ppg, kareem 22 ppg
36: lebron 25 ppg, kareem 22 ppg
37: lebron 30 ppg, kareem 22 ppg
38: lebron* 26 ppg, kareem 23 ppg
39: lebron??? Ppg, kareem 17 ppg
40: lebron??? Ppg, kareem 15 ppg
41: lebron??? Ppg,kareem 10 ppg

38 is the current season pace for lebron*

Unless you think kareem was gonna be a 30 points a game scorer out of high school i am not seeing the argument lebron couldnt end with more points anyway

And that is assuming kareem would have perfect health those 4 years and that 4 more years of nba wear and tear wouldnt affect him down the road

I think bron certainly would have more if he wanted to regardless, but Tbf Kareem being a 30 point scorer out of highschool isn’t a hard argument to make right?

I’m on the west and rear side more than anything

It's a pretty hard argument to make. what players prime has started at 18 years old?

[falcolombardi]

I take it noone is actually interested in the games of the LA Lakers any more from any perspective other than LeBron beating some record? Reminds me of last season when the play-in was missed but everyone in here was all riled up over the scoring title.

The G.O.A.T. claim for LeBron should be a discussion of the past but he still has several accolades unique to him, that not even critical people like me can question. One of them, even though highly related to "luck", is his longevity. Took great care of his body all those years, stayed disciplined, never showed up out of shape or outright fat like some other superstars. Along with that comes the availability to play many games and many minutes. Theres no shame in accounting for that , it certainly plays a key role in the kareem thing.

However, there is almost a whole season of basketball to play and i'd much rather see the lakers turn things around and make it intersting again. Please not another farewell season.

The reason the thread became about the scoring record is that posters came to diminish the record being broken because kareem went to ucla 4 years

Otherwise this thread has been the most active lakera discussion thread in the whole board which is impressive for mostly being non lakers fans

[LesGrossman]

Lebron vs kareem scoring ppg by age

19: lebron 21ppg, kareem ???
20: lebron 27 ppg, kareem ???
21: lebron 31 ppg, kareem???
22: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 29 ppg
23: lebron 30 ppg, kareem 32 ppg
24: lebron 28 ppg, kareem 35 ppg (!)
25: lebron 30 pgg, kareem 30 ppg
26: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 27 ppg
27: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 30 ppg
28: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 28 ppg
29: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 26 ppg
30: lebron 25 ppg, kareem 26 ppg
31:lebron 25 ppg, kareem 24 ppg
32: lebron 26 ppg, kareem 25 ppg
33: lebron 28 ppg, kareem 26 ppg
34: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 24 ppg
35: lebron 25 ppg, kareem 22 ppg
36: lebron 25 ppg, kareem 22 ppg
37: lebron 30 ppg, kareem 22 ppg
38: lebron* 26 ppg, kareem 23 ppg
39: lebron??? Ppg, kareem 17 ppg
40: lebron??? Ppg, kareem 15 ppg
41: lebron??? Ppg,kareem 10 ppg

38 is the current season pace for lebron*

Unless you think kareem was gonna be a 30 points a game scorer out of high school i am not seeing the argument lebron couldnt end with more points anyway

And that is assuming kareem would have perfect health those 4 years and that 4 more years of nba wear and tear wouldnt affect him down the road

I think bron certainly would have more if he wanted to regardless, but Tbf Kareem being a 30 point scorer out of highschool isn’t a hard argument to make right?

I’m on the west and rear side more than anything

It's a pretty hard argument to make. what players prime has started at 18 years old?

Its actually pretty obvious by the numbers, we dont have to run a regression to validate that LeBron's 3 young years are worth more scoring wise than Kareems 3 geezer years. He certainly wasnt in his prime back then but to assume that he'd have averaged something around 25 points isnt unrealistic.

[falcolombardi]

I think bron certainly would have more if he wanted to regardless, but Tbf Kareem being a 30 point scorer out of highschool isn’t a hard argument to make right?

I’m on the west and rear side more than anything

It's a pretty hard argument to make. what players prime has started at 18 years old?

Its actually pretty obvious by the numbers, we dont have to run a regression to validate that LeBron's 3 young years are worth more scoring wise than Kareems 3 geezer years. He certainly wasnt in his prime back then but to assume that he'd have averaged something around 25 points isnt unrealistic.

Nobody was arguing that 39-41 years old kareem was the scorer 19-21 years old lebron was

The argument is that lebron at his 30's has been a higher volume scorer than kareem and the trend looks likely to hold up in lebro 38-41 year old seasons if he plays that long,this is relevant cause a lot of posters diminish lebron breaking kareem record based on longevity even when lebron will break the record in less games most likely

Lebron scored so much out of high school (27 and 31 points seasons in year 2 and 3) that unless anyone thinks kareem would be a 27 ppg scorer right out od high school (incredibly unlikely), he likely wouldnt have scored much more than lebron in the equivalent age nba years

[tsherkin]

Out of high school kareem had a less developed body and didnt have his skyhook yet just for the mpst obvious improvements he made in college

This bears discussion. The NCAA banned dunking from 67-75. Kareem played at UCLA from 66-69. That ban is what prompted him to develop the skyhook, but to develop, not learn. That said, he'd already scored 33.1 ppg as a freshman at UCLA without that particular move at its full force. His FG% was at its best in that first season, but it was still stellar thereafter. His FT% took time to catch up, though; it wasn't until his fourth season in the NBA that he cracked 70% at the line.

Kareem himself has noted that he learned the hook from Mikan drills in grade school, and from watching Cliff Hagan on the Hawks, then using it against taller, more physical players.

[OhayoKD]

The question I have is what would this team, and Russ in particular, look like if you replaced 38yr old Lebron with 38yr old Jordan?

The evidence we have seems to indicate Lebron at 31 provided more regular season lift than any incarnation of jordan. Additionally, Lebron seems to have managed jordan+ impact in multiple contexts with worse relative to era spacing.

Why would we assume that a 38 year old Jordan, coming on the 20th year of his career, would do any better here than Lebron?

[Jaivl]

The question I have is what would this team, and Russ in particular, look like if you replaced 38yr old Lebron with 38yr old Jordan?

I would pay good money for that, in the same way that I would pay good money for a return of the 2009 Knicks.

[RCM88x]

Out of high school kareem had a less developed body and didnt have his skyhook yet just for the mpst obvious improvements he made in college

This bears discussion. The NCAA banned dunking from 67-75. Kareem played at UCLA from 66-69. That ban is what prompted him to develop the skyhook, but to develop, not learn. That said, he'd already scored 33.1 ppg as a freshman at UCLA without that particular move at its full force. His FG% was at its best in that first season, but it was still stellar thereafter. His FT% took time to catch up, though; it wasn't until his fourth season in the NBA that he cracked 70% at the line.

Kareem himself has noted that he learned the hook from Mikan drills in grade school, and from watching Cliff Hagan on the Hawks, then using it against taller, more physical players.

Wasn't his freshman season only played against other freshman teams? They didn't allow freshman to compete in varsity sports back then iirc.

[Mazter]

Out of high school kareem had a less developed body and didnt have his skyhook yet just for the mpst obvious improvements he made in college

This bears discussion. The NCAA banned dunking from 67-75. Kareem played at UCLA from 66-69. That ban is what prompted him to develop the skyhook, but to develop, not learn. That said, he'd already scored 33.1 ppg as a freshman at UCLA without that particular move at its full force. His FG% was at its best in that first season, but it was still stellar thereafter. His FT% took time to catch up, though; it wasn't until his fourth season in the NBA that he cracked 70% at the line.

Kareem himself has noted that he learned the hook from Mikan drills in grade school, and from watching Cliff Hagan on the Hawks, then using it against taller, more physical players.

Wasn't his freshman season only played against other freshman teams? They didn't allow freshman to compete in varsity sports back then iirc.

This is correct.

[Mazter]

Lebron vs kareem scoring ppg by age

19: lebron 21 ppg, kareem ?? ppg
20: lebron 27 ppg, kareem ?? ppg
21: lebron 31 ppg, kareem ?? ppg
22: lebron 27 ppg, kareem ?? ppg
23: lebron 30 ppg, kareem 29 ppg
24: lebron 28 ppg, kareem 32 ppg (!)
25: lebron 30 pgg, kareem 35 ppg
26: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 30 ppg
27: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 27 ppg
28: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 30 ppg
29: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 28 ppg
30: lebron 25 ppg, kareem 26 ppg
31: lebron 25 ppg, kareem 26 ppg
32: lebron 26 ppg, kareem 24 ppg
33: lebron 28 ppg, kareem 25 ppg
34: lebron 27 ppg, kareem 26 ppg
35: lebron 25 ppg, kareem 24 ppg
36: lebron 25 ppg, kareem 22 ppg
37: lebron 30 ppg, kareem 22 ppg
38: lebron*26 ppg, kareem 22 ppg
39: lebron ?? ppg, kareem 23 ppg
40: lebron ?? ppg, kareem 18 ppg
41: lebron ?? ppg, kareem 15 ppg
42: lebron ?? ppg, kareem 10 ppg

38 is the current season pace for lebron*

Unless you think kareem was gonna be a 30 points a game scorer out of high school i am not seeing the argument lebron couldnt end with more points anyway

And that is assuming kareem would have perfect health those 4 years and that 4 more years of nba wear and tear wouldnt affect him down the road

Look, I get the whole Basketball Reference age thing is easier to use, but in this case it screws things a bit.
LeBron 38 means he started the season at 37 and turned 38 in December.
Kareem 38 means he started the season at 38 and turned 39 in April.
Therefore Kareem's rookie season should be compared to LeBron's 5th.
It's actually quite logical, Kareem went to school for 4 years, not 3.

Regardless of all, LeBron is going to break the record because he is LeBron. He is the first one to average 10+ straight out of college (he averaged 20+) and the only one to average 30+ after season 15 or age 35, he did it in season 19 at age 37. If he went to college for 4 years he would probably break the record regardless.

[tsherkin]

Out of high school kareem had a less developed body and didnt have his skyhook yet just for the mpst obvious improvements he made in college

This bears discussion. The NCAA banned dunking from 67-75. Kareem played at UCLA from 66-69. That ban is what prompted him to develop the skyhook, but to develop, not learn. That said, he'd already scored 33.1 ppg as a freshman at UCLA without that particular move at its full force. His FG% was at its best in that first season, but it was still stellar thereafter. His FT% took time to catch up, though; it wasn't until his fourth season in the NBA that he cracked 70% at the line.

Kareem himself has noted that he learned the hook from Mikan drills in grade school, and from watching Cliff Hagan on the Hawks, then using it against taller, more physical players.

Wasn't his freshman season only played against other freshman teams? They didn't allow freshman to compete in varsity sports back then iirc.

Which tidily illustrates the difference in impact as he moved from one level to the next, yeah? He never averaged 30+ again in the NCAA, nor 20+ rpg. Hitting the NBA, he averaged 28.8 after four years at UCLA and hit 31.7 in his second season, but it is unlikely he'd have been that same level of efficacy a half-decade prior as an 18 or 19 year-old in the NBA. Which, of course, is well and normal.

[falcolombardi]

This bears discussion. The NCAA banned dunking from 67-75. Kareem played at UCLA from 66-69. That ban is what prompted him to develop the skyhook, but to develop, not learn. That said, he'd already scored 33.1 ppg as a freshman at UCLA without that particular move at its full force. His FG% was at its best in that first season, but it was still stellar thereafter. His FT% took time to catch up, though; it wasn't until his fourth season in the NBA that he cracked 70% at the line.

Kareem himself has noted that he learned the hook from Mikan drills in grade school, and from watching Cliff Hagan on the Hawks, then using it against taller, more physical players.

Wasn't his freshman season only played against other freshman teams? They didn't allow freshman to compete in varsity sports back then iirc.

Which tidily illustrates the difference in impact as he moved from one level to the next, yeah? He never averaged 30+ again in the NCAA, nor 20+ rpg. Hitting the NBA, he averaged 28.8 after four years at UCLA and hit 31.7 in his second season, but it is unlikely he'd have been that same level of efficacy a half-decade prior as an 18 or 19 year-old in the NBA. Which, of course, is well and normal.

but it is unlikely he'd have been that same level of efficacy a half-decade prior as an 18 or 19 year-old in the NBA. Which, of course, is well and normal

That is essentially my main point, i dont think 18 year old kareem would have been a much higher volume scorer than 19 years old lebron who scored 21 a game out of high school

[homecourtloss]

Pretty wild how good the Lakers have been defensively given how many transition opportunities they give up with all their bricks. If they keep up this pace for the rest of the game, they’ll be solidly #2 behind Milwaukee. And they’re doing it with a few plus def elders and some solid neural defenders.

[Fadeaway_J]

Who is this guy and what has he done with Russell Westbrook?

[nzahir]

Russ playing very well off the bench

Bev has been a disaster on offense, the guy was a good shooter for years before here wtf happened?

Lonnie is so low IQ

We really need a better SG and a wing who can shoot

[falcolombardi]

Pretty wild how good the Lakers have been defensively given how many transition opportunities they give up with all their bricks. If they keep up this pace for the rest of the game, they’ll be solidly #2 behind Milwaukee. And they’re doing it with a few plus def elders and some solid neural defenders.

Beverley essentially replaced westbrook as point of attack defender

Lebron essentially replaced carmelo/washed ariza minutes at wing/4

Davis and a solid backup replaced center lebron and washed up bigs