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Warriors have 2 Achilles' Heels: Klay & Wiseman

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and1GS
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Re: Warriors have 2 Achilles' Heels: Klay & Wiseman 

Post#61 » by and1GS » Thu Nov 3, 2022 10:48 pm

clyde21 wrote:
and1GS wrote:
clyde21 wrote:
don't think anyone is suggesting that. all what is being suggested is a recalibration in roles.


Based on your comments here and in other threads I'm not really clear on what re-calibration you have in mind for Jordan Poole other than trading him? Same with Wiseman and same with Klay. Maybe I'm missing your point, would you help elucidate that for me? Not trying to be facetious, just curious.

For me, I would say Klay's minutes should be cut by about 10 and those should be handed to Moody...but Klay is only playing 25 mpg. It's actually impressive he has stunk it up this much in such little time. I guess the only option there is sending him to the bench until he sorts himself out? Really don't want to see Jordan starting as his defense still makes my eyes bleed and I'm not confident Moody is ready to role with our core lineup.

Further IMO only, Wiseman should get the Kuminga treatment. If it's not a 'Wiseman game' then Kuminga plays and vice versa until one of them seizes the role. It's not a competition right now and looks more like minute gifting to James which is difficult to watch.


i've already mentioned this a few times

i'd bench Klay and start Moody

i'd only play Wise against bigger teams or in spot minutes

i'd emphasize Minga as first big off the bench instead of Wise

as for Poole, he is what he is at this point, which is a scoring 6th man, and should be treated as such. i think we need to be more careful about including him in too many closing lineups. i don't like seeing lineups with him, Steph and Klay in crucial situations. i think we need to pick between Klay and Poole (whoever is hotter that game) in those situations and go with more defensive looks.

i also think we need to see less JP on ball and more JP off ball and put the ball even more in Steph's/Dray's hands, maybe even have Wiggy create a bit as well from the pivot, or maybe some inside-out looks from Loon. getting DDV back as well will help imo getting the ball out of JP's hands.


Thanks for sharing. Not as in the weeds on the board right now due to work picking up.

To floppy's point, I do agree that as long as Klay is here he is starting and getting big minutes - and that's detrimental but unavoidable with the current philosophy.

I'm just having a hard time grasping that our team is this deep, yet Moody has only topped 18 minutes 3 times this season and Kuminga is getting DNP'd while their clear minutes blockers are under-performing. Depth doesn't mean much if it's not a meritocracy.
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Re: Warriors have 2 Achilles' Heels: Klay & Wiseman 

Post#62 » by watch1958 » Thu Nov 3, 2022 11:01 pm

Is Klay scared to drive? Doesn't look like he has taken a shot within 3 feet this season, and his % of 3 attempts is way up this year.
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Re: Warriors have 2 Achilles' Heels: Klay & Wiseman 

Post#63 » by Old_Blue » Thu Nov 3, 2022 11:05 pm

watch1958 wrote:Is Klay scared to drive?


Does driving a boat count? :D
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Re: Warriors have 2 Achilles' Heels: Klay & Wiseman 

Post#64 » by vagelis » Fri Nov 4, 2022 1:49 am

This thread is exactly to the point
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Re: Warriors have 2 Achilles' Heels: Klay & Wiseman 

Post#65 » by GswStorm3 » Fri Nov 4, 2022 1:59 am

Certainly looks that way. Klay has turned into a volume shooter and Wiseman doesn't excel at anything.
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Re: Warriors have 2 Achilles' Heels: Klay & Wiseman 

Post#66 » by Sam Lowry Jr » Fri Nov 4, 2022 2:09 am

Isn't it Poole and Wiseman? The Klay lineups have been decent and at least he still tries on D.

Poole, however, has been underwhelming on both ends so far this year. Poole and Wiseman together are synergistically a hot mess.
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Re: Warriors have 2 Achilles' Heels: Klay & Wiseman 

Post#67 » by WarriorGM » Fri Nov 4, 2022 2:10 am

Was Klay an issue in this latest game?
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Re: Warriors have 2 Achilles' Heels: Klay & Wiseman 

Post#68 » by Sam Lowry Jr » Fri Nov 4, 2022 2:13 am

WarriorGM wrote:Was Klay an issue in this latest game?


Not really. Sure he missed the final shot, but his shooting helped them build that 16 point lead. Really that trio of JMG, Poole and Wiseman was our downfall.

Prior to tonight's game: Steph, Klay, Dray, Loon, and Wiggs were a +27.5 net rating. Replace Klay with Poole and they had a -16.2 net rating. Yikes!

Just replacing Klay for Poole and DEF RTG went from 99.5 to 123.0! Even Off Rtg goes down from 127 to 99.5. For those clamoring to bench Klay, would you really start Poole ahead of him?
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Re: Warriors have 2 Achilles' Heels: Klay & Wiseman 

Post#69 » by ILOVEIT » Fri Nov 4, 2022 2:41 am

Coxy wrote:Neither are the issue for mine.

Right now, I think we are seeing how bad our defence can be, because we lost Gary Payton II and Otto Porter, and we are now playing Jordan Poole much heavier minutes nightly. Losing GPII in particular is huge, as he was generating all sorts of havoc on D and then played a unique screen and role guy on offense. Poole is dreadful on defense, as bad as it gets, and his role on offense is hard to mould into our system a lot of the time because it's so herky jerky.

In a nutshell, no GPII and Otto, and way more Poole is a huge difference to this team.


This is it. The new "Green" is a major disappointment so far and Devanchenz (sp?) is injured.

GP2 got AFTER players....he was agressive, destroying plays, shooting the gaps.

Warriors are left with a bunch of young pups with very little natural instinct defensively. The new "Green" signing is starting to remind me of that completely useless point guard we signed in 20/21 (forgetting his name for my own health).
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Re: Warriors have 2 Achilles' Heels: Klay & Wiseman 

Post#70 » by Sam Lowry Jr » Fri Nov 4, 2022 2:44 am

ILOVEIT wrote:
Coxy wrote:Neither are the issue for mine.

Right now, I think we are seeing how bad our defence can be, because we lost Gary Payton II and Otto Porter, and we are now playing Jordan Poole much heavier minutes nightly. Losing GPII in particular is huge, as he was generating all sorts of havoc on D and then played a unique screen and role guy on offense. Poole is dreadful on defense, as bad as it gets, and his role on offense is hard to mould into our system a lot of the time because it's so herky jerky.

In a nutshell, no GPII and Otto, and way more Poole is a huge difference to this team.


This is it. The new "Green" is a major disappointment so far and Devanchenz (sp?) is injured.

GP2 got AFTER players....he was agressive, destroying plays, shooting the gaps.

Warriors are left with a bunch of young pups with very little natural instinct defensively. The new "Green" signing is starting to remind me of that completely useless point guard we signed in 20/21 (forgetting his name for my own health).


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Re: Warriors have 2 Achilles' Heels: Klay & Wiseman 

Post#71 » by Badly Browned » Fri Nov 4, 2022 2:46 am

Warriors made up lack of Centers last year with excellent PoA defense.

Losing GP2 hurts, though even if he re-signed they wouldn't have him right now anyways due to injury. Plus, Donte and Iguodala being out means two more vet perimeter defenders in street clothes.
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Re: Warriors have 2 Achilles' Heels: Klay & Wiseman 

Post#72 » by SpreeS » Fri Nov 4, 2022 3:14 am

Sam Lowry Jr wrote:Isn't it Poole and Wiseman? The Klay lineups have been decent and at least he still tries on D.

Poole, however, has been underwhelming on both ends so far this year. Poole and Wiseman together are synergistically a hot mess.


Klay is also hot mess on both ends. Klay’s had terrible efficiency with 27 pts on 24 fga. Leag avg 1,266 pts per shot, Klay had 1,125 pts and took 25% of team shots…

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