2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 2

[BobbieL]

A lot of time spent talking about how bad Minnesota is or how bad the Clips were but what about GS? No one thinks they are "bad" coming off a championship and knowing their talent, but what's up with them?

We beat Minny by 9 and they are terrible. We beat GS by 29. They also lose b2b to Charlotte and Detroit, and then to Miami, who was 2-5 themselves at the time. Their wins are a 5 pt win against the Kings, a 14 pt win against the Lakers and they beat Miami, who as I mentioned, is under 500 themselves.

They are playing OKC tonight who is 4-3, tied with the Nuggets and Mavs and ahead of the Clippers and Warriors...though of course behind SA & Utah.

I think there's just more faith the warriors figure it out. I think they are losing because their young players are making mistakes and just the normal championship hangover. I do think they miss guys like Payton and Porter. Plus Klay, Green, and Curry aren't getting any younger.

With the Clippers I think there's real concern about Kawhi's knee. And we may have overestimated the rest of that lineup. Lots of names but names don't win games.

Minny it's an experiment with the Towns/Gobert thing and early results haven't been great so I think the concern is legit.


It does kind of feel like we're on about our 3rd yr in a row of people overestimating the rest of the west. Why I always say 'we'll see' when people freak out and list like 10 teams they think will be great. Every season guys get hurt and teams under or over achieve, that's just basketball.

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Granted, have to see how injuries shake out for the Suns and the rest of the league. What teams are tanking but I am okay being patient with the 25m of expiring contracts for the right player(s) - that will make a difference and just not have something to talk about now.

My guy is still Hayward but it will take a few months for the Hornets to figure out who they are as a team. And there might be other players too. He could be an added bonus for the end of the regular season and playoffs. I am open to other names as well - just not sure who they are.

As for the WArriors - they will be fine - they know what they need to do to get there

[WeekapaugGroove]

BW, you still bullish on Brooklyn

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[lilfishi22]

A lot of time spent talking about how bad Minnesota is or how bad the Clips were but what about GS? No one thinks they are "bad" coming off a championship and knowing their talent, but what's up with them?

We beat Minny by 9 and they are terrible. We beat GS by 29. They also lose b2b to Charlotte and Detroit, and then to Miami, who was 2-5 themselves at the time. Their wins are a 5 pt win against the Kings, a 14 pt win against the Lakers and they beat Miami, who as I mentioned, is under 500 themselves.

They are playing OKC tonight who is 4-3, tied with the Nuggets and Mavs and ahead of the Clippers and Warriors...though of course behind SA & Utah.

No one talked about them because they've built the championship equity and earned the benefit of the doubt. For them, It's a combination of a few things.

1. They lost some of their really high IQ vets who can do a bit of everything, not make a ton of mistakes and just know how to play basketball like Porter Jr, GP2, Bjelica and even Lee. These guys aren't stars but they were smart and knew their roles.

2. On the flip side of that, instead of playing these experienced, high IQ guys in those complementary roles, they're now playing the young guys like Kuminga, Wiseman and Moody in the hopes that they can be relied on come playoff time. It's a wise approach because their core is old now and they need the fresh legs of the young guys to carry them through the long 82 game season.

3. Klay regression has been notable. He was pretty damn good last season coming back after two seasons on the sidelines but this season so far, he just hasn't looked like himself. He's not defending as well imo, his efficiency has tanked and he's playing more rotation minutes than starter minutes right now as they try and bring him back to form.

4. Defensively, they have regressed significantly. I think a lot of it is related to #1 and #2.

Ultimately, they aren't playing to be the October or November champions but champions in June so they are playing the slow roll right now and building up to a contender. When Steph is going to be 35, Klay and Dray are going to be 33 by the time playoffs begin and with the mileage (and injuries) on their body, it's the right approach. They've shown they don't need to have the best record or HCA throughout the playoffs to win so while it doesn't look good right now, they've certainly earned the benefit of the doubt.

[lilfishi22]

A lot of time spent talking about how bad Minnesota is or how bad the Clips were but what about GS? No one thinks they are "bad" coming off a championship and knowing their talent, but what's up with them?

We beat Minny by 9 and they are terrible. We beat GS by 29. They also lose b2b to Charlotte and Detroit, and then to Miami, who was 2-5 themselves at the time. Their wins are a 5 pt win against the Kings, a 14 pt win against the Lakers and they beat Miami, who as I mentioned, is under 500 themselves.

They are playing OKC tonight who is 4-3, tied with the Nuggets and Mavs and ahead of the Clippers and Warriors...though of course behind SA & Utah.

I think there's just more faith the warriors figure it out. I think they are losing because their young players are making mistakes and just the normal championship hangover. I do think they miss guys like Payton and Porter. Plus Klay, Green, and Curry aren't getting any younger.

With the Clippers I think there's real concern about Kawhi's knee. And we may have overestimated the rest of that lineup. Lots of names but names don't win games.

Minny it's an experiment with the Towns/Gobert thing and early results haven't been great so I think the concern is legit.


It does kind of feel like we're on about our 3rd yr in a row of people overestimating the rest of the west. Why I always say 'we'll see' when people freak out and list like 10 teams they think will be great. Every season guys get hurt and teams under or over achieve, that's just basketball.

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Say this every offseason since Kawhi and PG teamed up in LA, the Clippers are rightfully the Paper Favourites. Even their best playoff results (WCF against us), they were still without Kawhi. Now with the the load management on Kawhi this early in the season, you have to wonder if they'll take it to another level and put him on ice for even longer than they normally do.

[bwgood77]

A lot of time spent talking about how bad Minnesota is or how bad the Clips were but what about GS? No one thinks they are "bad" coming off a championship and knowing their talent, but what's up with them?

We beat Minny by 9 and they are terrible. We beat GS by 29. They also lose b2b to Charlotte and Detroit, and then to Miami, who was 2-5 themselves at the time. Their wins are a 5 pt win against the Kings, a 14 pt win against the Lakers and they beat Miami, who as I mentioned, is under 500 themselves.

They are playing OKC tonight who is 4-3, tied with the Nuggets and Mavs and ahead of the Clippers and Warriors...though of course behind SA & Utah.

No one talked about them because they've built the championship equity and earned the benefit of the doubt. For them, It's a combination of a few things.

1. They lost some of their really high IQ vets who can do a bit of everything, not make a ton of mistakes and just know how to play basketball like Porter Jr, GP2, Bjelica and even Lee. These guys aren't stars but they were smart and knew their roles.

2. On the flip side of that, instead of playing these experienced, high IQ guys in those complementary roles, they're now playing the young guys like Kuminga, Wiseman and Moody in the hopes that they can be relied on come playoff time. It's a wise approach because their core is old now and they need the fresh legs of the young guys to carry them through the long 82 game season.

3. Klay regression has been notable. He was pretty damn good last season coming back after two seasons on the sidelines but this season so far, he just hasn't looked like himself. He's not defending as well imo, his efficiency has tanked and he's playing more rotation minutes than starter minutes right now as they try and bring him back to form.

4. Defensively, they have regressed significantly. I think a lot of it is related to #1 and #2.

Ultimately, they aren't playing to be the October or November champions but champions in June so they are playing the slow roll right now and building up to a contender. When Steph is going to be 35, Klay and Dray are going to be 33 by the time playoffs begin and with the mileage (and injuries) on their body, it's the right approach. They've shown they don't need to have the best record or HCA throughout the playoffs to win so while it doesn't look good right now, they've certainly earned the benefit of the doubt.

I was being kind of facetious...there seem to be wild overrreactions based not only on a 7 or 8 game sample, but even judging how good a team is or what a failure they are after 1 game.

Then you have a team like the Warriors who we crushed and they lost to some really bad teams...or at least one in Detroit and an avg team in Charlotte.

I think it's way too early to make and definitive judgements about any team, especially given how teams have made some big changes, some injured players who were out a year or longer coming back, etc.

Utah and SA kind of remind me of Washington an Charlotte last year who started out hot. Portland may be more like Chicago was....better, talented, but ultimately a low seed or play in who loses in the first round, if not in play in.

[lilfishi22]

The best thing about our situation right now is that most of us expected us to regress due to a combination of factors from CP3 getting another year older, no "name" additions to the roster over the offseason, the whole DA debacle putting a cloud over the Suns and the whole Jae thing (+ Sarver). And the way we dropped out of the playoffs had people not believing in the Suns which isn't a crazy thought.

But what I love about our situation is that not only are we still rolling, our bench looks solid and we have good value assets to upgrade a roster that's already winning as is. Last season, Boston were struggling the entire first half of the season and were not many games over .500 (31-25) at the trade deadline. They moved some assets for high IQ players like Derrick White and Theis (who already knew their system) and ended the season 51-31 (2nd in the East) and got to the Finals. We're in a similar situation except for the fact that we're actually playing well right now. Nothing is stopping us from making a move with the assets we have for a good complementary playoff contributor. Doesn't NEED to be a KD or some $30m a year star, we just need to add another solid contributor.

[bwgood77]

BW, you still bullish on Brooklyn

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Not without Kyrie. He was awful last game but really good in the previous one.

I just didn't think their talent was a "trainwreck" or team would be horrible as constructed, if they got a proper coach and utilized Simmons correctly.

Now of course star personality wise they have always been a trainwreck.

I do still think they could probably be pretty good with KD and shooters. If Kyrie doesn't go back, and given the anti vax stuff, the contract stuff and now this, it's hard to see it, KD may get shipped out. It's hard to have a player like KD surrounded by vets and go into a rebuild though. But they do have their pick...kind of.

The problem is they can't get Wembanya because Houston has swap rights. So do you really trade KD unless the package isn't ridiculously good? Like some very nice prospects and picks?

Our picks probably don't appear too appealing and if we don't throw 2-3 of our good young players in there I don't see them biting.

Can we beat a Raptors OG/Gary Trent Jr/picks package? We could of course, but would we want to give the guys up for the aging superstar?

The earlier thought process was we only have like a 1 or 2 year window while Paul is here. Does Paul even have that long? If we trade Bridges and Cam and picks does it work? Is it enough? Would we want to do it?

Probably with Book and Ayton.

They said they don't want Ayton.

If they do want Ayton is Ayton and Cam enough?

Initially I think poll results here showed most thought KD was worth what everyone thought the package would be initially - Ayton, Bridges, AND Cam AND picks and swaps.

[bwgood77]

A lot of time spent talking about how bad Minnesota is or how bad the Clips were but what about GS? No one thinks they are "bad" coming off a championship and knowing their talent, but what's up with them?

We beat Minny by 9 and they are terrible. We beat GS by 29. They also lose b2b to Charlotte and Detroit, and then to Miami, who was 2-5 themselves at the time. Their wins are a 5 pt win against the Kings, a 14 pt win against the Lakers and they beat Miami, who as I mentioned, is under 500 themselves.

They are playing OKC tonight who is 4-3, tied with the Nuggets and Mavs and ahead of the Clippers and Warriors...though of course behind SA & Utah.

I think there's just more faith the warriors figure it out. I think they are losing because their young players are making mistakes and just the normal championship hangover. I do think they miss guys like Payton and Porter. Plus Klay, Green, and Curry aren't getting any younger.

With the Clippers I think there's real concern about Kawhi's knee. And we may have overestimated the rest of that lineup. Lots of names but names don't win games.

Minny it's an experiment with the Towns/Gobert thing and early results haven't been great so I think the concern is legit.

It does kind of feel like we're on about our 3rd yr in a row of people overestimating the rest of the west. Why I always say 'we'll see' when people freak out and list like 10 teams they think will be great. Every season guys get hurt and teams under or over achieve, that's just basketball.

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Well...Clips..the names part. George and fewer of those names got to the WCF. Sure they had Kawhi for the first round but he went down in the second round against the 1 seed tied 2-2 and they beat Utah, then they nearly beat us.

Then last year they were in I think the 8 spot with all those role players and 30 games of Paul George...he just missed the play in due to COVID unfortunately for them.

I agree about Kawhi though..I am surprised he is missing so much time in some ways. Now I don't know if it is the Clippers being worried or it is Kawhi's camp doing his usual thing.

My guess though is that he will be back playing full strength for the playoffs based on his history (unless he gets injured again in the playoffs based on that history). The Toronto year he took a ton of games off.

I still think they have depth and I think Lue is a good coach so I expect them to get better....I may think those names are a little higher quality than you..not great names but solid depth around the two stars..and a lot of it.

The TWolves experiment is mainly not working because their 3pt shooting is bad. Towns is down there too. Ant needs to shoot better out there too. Russell is overrated though. Ant needs to get better but him flying in for dunks is probably harder to do with Gobert in there.

[Qwigglez]

Not without Kyrie. He was awful last game but really good in the previous one.

I just didn't think their talent was a "trainwreck" or team would be horrible as constructed, if they got a proper coach and utilized Simmons correctly.

Now of course star personality wise they have always been a trainwreck.

I do still think they could probably be pretty good with KD and shooters. If Kyrie doesn't go back, and given the anti vax stuff, the contract stuff and now this, it's hard to see it, KD may get shipped out. It's hard to have a player like KD surrounded by vets and go into a rebuild though. But they do have their pick...kind of.

The problem is they can't get Wembanya because Houston has swap rights. So do you really trade KD unless the package isn't ridiculously good? Like some very nice prospects and picks?

Our picks probably don't appear too appealing and if we don't throw 2-3 of our good young players in there I don't see them biting.

Can we beat a Raptors OG/Gary Trent Jr/picks package? We could of course, but would we want to give the guys up for the aging superstar?

The earlier thought process was we only have like a 1 or 2 year window while Paul is here. Does Paul even have that long? If we trade Bridges and Cam and picks does it work? Is it enough? Would we want to do it?

Probably with Book and Ayton.

They said they don't want Ayton.

If they do want Ayton is Ayton and Cam enough?

Initially I think poll results here showed most thought KD was worth what everyone thought the package would be initially - Ayton, Bridges, AND Cam AND picks and swaps.

If the Raptors are offering OG and Trent Jr, the Nets need to take that and run with it. If I were the Raptors, I don't trade for KD. They got a lot of good young talent in OG, Trent Jr, Barnes.

The Suns aren't trading Bridges or Ayton for KD at this point either. I could see Cam Johnson being the main piece if a trade were to go down, but it would have to include Crowder, Shamet, Dario, and Craig just to make the finances work. Part of me believed we didn't come to an agreement with Cam Johnson because we wanted to see what his trade value was before he was given a poison pill contract. I also think with Crowder, Shamet, and Cam Johnson would be a very ideal situation for Ben Simmons to succeed having a bunch of shooters around him. Is that a good enough offer for KD? Probably not. But if KD is vocal about leaving again and mentions the Suns as his preferred only destination, it may be hard for other teams to want to get involved.

The Nets took a huge gamble this off-season and the glass house is starting to show cracks.

[Qwigglez]

Our bench would be poo-poo though.

CP3 / Payne / Washington Jr
Booker / Okogie
Bridges / Lee
KD / Ish
Ayton / Jock / Biyombo

Maybe sign Melo.

[bwgood77]

Not without Kyrie. He was awful last game but really good in the previous one.

I just didn't think their talent was a "trainwreck" or team would be horrible as constructed, if they got a proper coach and utilized Simmons correctly.

Now of course star personality wise they have always been a trainwreck.

I do still think they could probably be pretty good with KD and shooters. If Kyrie doesn't go back, and given the anti vax stuff, the contract stuff and now this, it's hard to see it, KD may get shipped out. It's hard to have a player like KD surrounded by vets and go into a rebuild though. But they do have their pick...kind of.

The problem is they can't get Wembanya because Houston has swap rights. So do you really trade KD unless the package isn't ridiculously good? Like some very nice prospects and picks?

Our picks probably don't appear too appealing and if we don't throw 2-3 of our good young players in there I don't see them biting.

Can we beat a Raptors OG/Gary Trent Jr/picks package? We could of course, but would we want to give the guys up for the aging superstar?

The earlier thought process was we only have like a 1 or 2 year window while Paul is here. Does Paul even have that long? If we trade Bridges and Cam and picks does it work? Is it enough? Would we want to do it?

Probably with Book and Ayton.

They said they don't want Ayton.

If they do want Ayton is Ayton and Cam enough?

Initially I think poll results here showed most thought KD was worth what everyone thought the package would be initially - Ayton, Bridges, AND Cam AND picks and swaps.

If the Raptors are offering OG and Trent Jr, the Nets need to take that and run with it. If I were the Raptors, I don't trade for KD. They got a lot of good young talent in OG, Trent Jr, Barnes.

The Suns aren't trading Bridges or Ayton for KD at this point either. I could see Cam Johnson being the main piece if a trade were to go down, but it would have to include Crowder, Shamet, Dario, and Craig just to make the finances work. Part of me believed we didn't come to an agreement with Cam Johnson because we wanted to see what his trade value was before he was given a poison pill contract. I also think with Crowder, Shamet, and Cam Johnson would be a very ideal situation for Ben Simmons to succeed having a bunch of shooters around him. Is that a good enough offer for KD? Probably not. But if KD is vocal about leaving again and mentions the Suns as his preferred only destination, it may be hard for other teams to want to get involved.

The Nets took a huge gamble this off-season and the glass house is starting to show cracks.

I don't know why the Raptors wouldn't do the OG/Trent Jr one. OG has mentioned before he is unhappy. If he likes it there fine, but if they plan on trading him and not re-signing him after this contract, I think him and Trent Jr makes sense. FVV/Barnes/KD/Siakam/Koloko? Not bad.

It's not like the Raptors are not ready to seriously compete either.

They beat the Cavs, Heat, Sixers, the Hawks by 30 and then the Spurs by 43. They are 5-3. Their losses are to Miami, Philly and Brooklyn.

They have played a very tough schedule so far and are playing very well. You could argue why change anything, just like us though too.

[Qwigglez]

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[bwgood77]

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Funny video but I don't think some people know what leverage is.

[BobbieL]

The best thing about our situation right now is that most of us expected us to regress due to a combination of factors from CP3 getting another year older, no "name" additions to the roster over the offseason, the whole DA debacle putting a cloud over the Suns and the whole Jae thing (+ Sarver). And the way we dropped out of the playoffs had people not believing in the Suns which isn't a crazy thought.

But what I love about our situation is that not only are we still rolling, our bench looks solid and we have good value assets to upgrade a roster that's already winning as is. Last season, Boston were struggling the entire first half of the season and were not many games over .500 (31-25) at the trade deadline. They moved some assets for high IQ players like Derrick White and Theis (who already knew their system) and ended the season 51-31 (2nd in the East) and got to the Finals. We're in a similar situation except for the fact that we're actually playing well right now. Nothing is stopping us from making a move with the assets we have for a good complementary playoff contributor. Doesn't NEED to be a KD or some $30m a year star, we just need to add another solid contributor.

This is a good comparison for the Suns. That is the exact type of trade the Suns should wait for. They will be able to make it to February 1, health willing , to probably be a top 5 seed. But you get to the deadline and make the right trade , could be the difference


Warriors lost again. They will be fine- I think. But the bench didn’t give them much tonight .

[Puff]

Ben Simmons? Come on. Speaking of soft how is it DAs numbers are lower across the board? Dude is getting traded.

It is hard to believe that some on this board think that Ayton was a better choice than Doncic, literally unbelievable.

I would be curious to know how many of the rebounds Ayton gets are on missed free throw attempts by the opponent. He seems to rarely get rebounds in traffic. He certainly is not a bad player, but he also is not a great player, Doncic is a great player.

I expect these same fans that dislike Doncic were those that did not want Kobe Bryant on the Suns. They also probably did not want Michael Jordan on this team either. Both of those guys were also ball hogs.

The great thing to watch this season so far has been the improvement in our offense with both Mikal and Cam having far more impact, the ball is moving faster up the court and we are not watching CP3 pound the ball for much of the shot clock. CP3 also appears far from done. Lots of these same fans have said he was done after the loss we had against Doncic and the Mavs. While his shot is not falling like it will, he is doing other things that will probably keep him in the running for an All NBA team when all is said and done.

Go Suns

Ayton, please get well soon.

[Crives]

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Funny video but I don't think some people know what leverage is.

KD has the leverage now if nets want to trade him, as he can tell teams he’s not interested

[bwgood77]

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Funny video but I don't think some people know what leverage is.

KD has the leverage now if nets want to trade him, as he can tell teams he’s not interested

If he sits out he has some leverage on a trade. He may have some leverage against where he goes and will say he only wants to play in Miami, Toronto or Phx or something but it will still take a good offer to get him.

Even though he already requested a trade it might be a really bad look now to ask for one right after Kyrie is suspended for anti semitic comments, kind of making it look like he doesn't agree he should be suspended.

[sunsbum]

I think Saric can still play at Dario Saric levels. It’s not like we’ve ever leaned heavily on him, heck he put up some good games overseas this summer. Personally I still think JJ is waiting for a trade and he’d be wise to capitalize on one right now considering our bench guys are playing well at the moment. Im not sure I trust our bench to continue to play at the level they are and I hope to high heavens JJ isnt content with the roster as is.

What is "Dario Saric levels"? I mean, he was decent half the year two years ago and then started to suck and was unplayable in the playoffs, leaving our only backup Kaminsky (who actually had like a crazy good half in the finals I think).

Then a serious injury then looks bad internationally.

I think he is either used as salary filler in a trade or just expires. There is a good chance they just let guys like him and Craig expire since they have to pay Cam....it will basically replace their salary. I guess you could say possibly Jae too but he has trade value.

Dario Saric level is exactly what he’s been 8pts 4rbs 2asts. Do you honestly think he’s not capable of that if given the minutes? His summer play was up and down. To be expected. I definitely don’t think he’s playing so bad he deserves 3 minutes every other game but I understand our bench is playing so well there’s no need to mess with it at the moment.

[MrMiyagi]

Durant should negotiate a buyout and come play with us on the Vet Minimum for 1 year.

[Fo-Real]

Durant should negotiate a buyout and come play with us on the Vet Minimum for 1 year.

Bruh!