Game 9: Utah Jazz (6-2) @ Dallas Mavericks (3-3)

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Re: Game 9: Utah Jazz (6-2) @ Dallas Mavericks (3-3) 

Post#21 » by TNJazz » Fri Nov 4, 2022 4:26 pm

red4hf wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:
red4hf wrote:Clarkson started off playing well, but went into hero mode in the 4th, and lost the game...... Such a disappointment......,.

You take that back. Clarkson was magnificent, single-handedly keeping the tank alive. 8-)


One of the reasons this season is fun is, I want the Jazz to win, but I'm not so disappointed when they lose, unlike the last few seasons where a game like this would send me into a depression spiral.......


100% agree, the difference is not going into that depression spiral...

This is the best way to "tank", competitive and fun to watch, but come up a little short.
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Re: Game 9: Utah Jazz (6-2) @ Dallas Mavericks (3-3) 

Post#22 » by Inigo Montoya » Fri Nov 4, 2022 4:26 pm

red4hf wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:
red4hf wrote:Clarkson started off playing well, but went into hero mode in the 4th, and lost the game...... Such a disappointment......,.

You take that back. Clarkson was magnificent, single-handedly keeping the tank alive. 8-)


One of the reasons this season is fun is, I want the Jazz to win, but I'm not so disappointed when they lose, unlike the last few seasons where a game like this would send me into a depression spiral.......


I agree. This season is like playing with house money but as fun as it is, it still really bothers me that we're not tanking hard enough, or at all, really. I hope we won't regret it in the long run. Maybe karma will intervene and we'll win the #1 pick with really tiny odds after missing the playoffs (or through another team's pick, if it's possible this season).
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
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Re: Game 9: Utah Jazz (6-2) @ Dallas Mavericks (3-3) 

Post#23 » by Inigo Montoya » Fri Nov 4, 2022 4:28 pm

TNJazz wrote:This is the best way to "tank", competitive and fun to watch, but come up a little short.


That would be the worst way to tank because you'll get very low odds at a high draft pick, which is what you're after if you're tanking. This may be the "fun" way to tank, but it is also the worst way to do it.
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
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Re: Game 9: Utah Jazz (6-2) @ Dallas Mavericks (3-3) 

Post#24 » by TNJazz » Fri Nov 4, 2022 4:35 pm

Inigo Montoya wrote:
TNJazz wrote:This is the best way to "tank", competitive and fun to watch, but come up a little short.


That would be the worst way to tank because you'll get very low odds at a high draft pick, which is what you're after if you're tanking. This may be the "fun" way to tank, but it is also the worst way to do it.


If the result is still loss, then what is the difference? Losing on purpose or officially tanking on the sly doesn't bode well for the future even with top picks because now not only are they a bad team, they have developed a losing culture. Same result, different path.
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Re: Game 9: Utah Jazz (6-2) @ Dallas Mavericks (3-3) 

Post#25 » by Inigo Montoya » Fri Nov 4, 2022 4:45 pm

TNJazz wrote:
Inigo Montoya wrote:
TNJazz wrote:This is the best way to "tank", competitive and fun to watch, but come up a little short.


That would be the worst way to tank because you'll get very low odds at a high draft pick, which is what you're after if you're tanking. This may be the "fun" way to tank, but it is also the worst way to do it.


If the result is still loss, then what is the difference? Losing on purpose or officially tanking on the sly doesn't bode well for the future even with top picks because now not only are they a bad team, they have developed a losing culture. Same result, different path.


The scenario you described is one where the Jazz barely miss the playoffs, which means they get very slim odds at a high draft pick. Unless I misunderstood, and you meant the Jazz come up a little short in each game? In which case, I would agree.

Tanking is not losing on purpose. The coach still coaches to win and the players still play to win. Only the FO makes it harder on them to do so by trading players and composing a roster that isn't very competitive (but with an emphasis on player development, ideally). Realistically, players like Conley, Clarkson, Olynyk and Gay don't have a long-term future with the Jazz so you might as well move them now instead of racking up a few more wins.

As for developing a losing culture, I admit I'm having trouble understanding this argument, which is used often. Does the losing culture persist even if you replace most of the roster over a few years, like the Jazz will do? And if so, how? And does losing one season develops a losing culture that trumps decades of a winning culture, that the Jazz supposedly have?
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KqWIN wrote:Why are we talking about Middleton, Harris, and Porter?

The real decision the Jazz FO is making is between Continuity, Cap Flexibility, and Cash Considerations.
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Re: Game 9: Utah Jazz (6-2) @ Dallas Mavericks (3-3) 

Post#26 » by TNJazz » Sat Nov 5, 2022 12:56 pm

Developing a listing culture isn't a very accurate way of describing what I meant, so I understand the confusion. Developing and losing are opposites. To illustrate your losing culture trumps decades of winning question, I think of it like this. It takes months or years to build a skyscraper and it can be torn down in minutes. Agreed, the Jazz have always had a culture where they were trying to win, which is what I think they are fighting against now. It seems as if this is the best time to "Tank", but years of being a well run franchise, once LHM took over and Sloan ran the team, are in contrast to tanking, so being competitive and continuing that strategy will help make it easier to build with younger better talent over younger better talent but a culture of not knowing how to be competitive and win.

this all makes sense in my head, not sure it translates to the written forum...

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