Jason Curry vs Lebron James

[Matt15]

Jason Curry is hybrid of Jason Kidd/Stephen Curry that combines all their best attributes. Who do you think would be better between the hybrid player and Lebron James?

[penbeast0]

Few combos can beat LeBron (other than a few center types) but I think this one does. Curry's scoring is better than LeBron's, Kidd's defense is superior, Kidd makes the rebounding close, and the combination of Kidd and Curry make the playmaking reasonably close. LeBron still has the advantage of his size but I'd take Curry/Kidd over him for peak and prime, though LeBron also has a significantly longer prime than either so possibly still LeBron for career.

[PistolPeteJR]

Few combos can beat LeBron (other than a few center types) but I think this one does. Curry's scoring is better than LeBron's, Kidd's defense is superior, Kidd makes the rebounding close, and the combination of Kidd and Curry make the playmaking reasonably close. LeBron still has the advantage of his size but I'd take Curry/Kidd over him for peak and prime, though LeBron also has a significantly longer prime than either so possibly still LeBron for career.

I'm not sure I take Kidd over LeBron on defense. I think it's decently close, but the way I see it, it's basically Kidd's lateral quickness (> LeBron's) vs LeBron's size and strength (> Kidd's).

[LesGrossman]

I believe that we might hear the debate wether Steph without any upgrades is to be considered the better player over all pretty soon. If they win again and he continues to play like this (triple double tonight), adding more rings, not falling off at any aspect of his game, it will be hard to avoid the debate.

As for the question, do you refer to the prime version of each player?

[NbaAllDay]

I believe that we might hear the debate wether Steph without any upgrades is to be considered the better player over all pretty soon. If they win again and he continues to play like this (triple double tonight), adding more rings, not falling off at any aspect of his game, it will be hard to avoid the debate.

As for the question, do you refer to the prime version of each player?

I mean it's already clear. More rings and "triple doubles" isn't going to show that Steph was a better player for Longer than Lebron. Take any peak, prime windows on Defense and Offense and Lebron has clear margins. It's even bigger on D. Add the insane longevity and it's just not comparible.

Keep in mind I have Curry about 10th all time.

As for the topic, it's a tough one when size and strength is such an advantage. I wonder how much of Kods facilitation would help Curry and how much the Defensive gap would be improved. Depends what sample size you are asking for.

[oaktownwarriors87]

With the exception of the year he missed with a broken hand, Curry has had a higher RPM than LeBron very year since 2013.

Now you want to upgrade his length, athleticism, passing, rebounding and defense?

[Colbinii]

With the exception of the year he missed with a broken hand, Curry has had a higher RPM than LeBron very year since 2013.

Now you want to upgrade his length, athleticism, passing, rebounding and defense?

Your biases are hilarious. LeBron was hurt in 2019, 2021 and 2022 yet you don't bring up LeBron's injuries

Why do you like RPM? Do you think it captures impact better than other all-in-one statistics?

[Colbinii]

This is pretty obviously Jason Curry. Greatest Defensive Point Guard of all-time combined with a top 4 Offensive Point Guard of all-time. I think this is true for all positions.

Kidd/Curry
Jordan/Miller
Durant/Pippen
Garnett/Dirk
Jokic/Russell

[oaktownwarriors87]

With the exception of the year he missed with a broken hand, Curry has had a higher RPM than LeBron very year since 2013.

Now you want to upgrade his length, athleticism, passing, rebounding and defense?

Your biases are hilarious. LeBron was hurt in 2019, 2021 and 2022 yet you don't bring up LeBron's injuries

Why do you like RPM? Do you think it captures impact better than other all-in-one statistics?

Missing half the season won't impact RPM.

Only playing 5 games will.

[Colbinii]

With the exception of the year he missed with a broken hand, Curry has had a higher RPM than LeBron very year since 2013.

Now you want to upgrade his length, athleticism, passing, rebounding and defense?

Your biases are hilarious. LeBron was hurt in 2019, 2021 and 2022 yet you don't bring up LeBron's injuries

Why do you like RPM? Do you think it captures impact better than other all-in-one statistics?

Missing half the season won't impact RPM

Sure it will, LeBron's RPM has historically increased in the post-season by staggering degrees. I am quite sure his 2016 RPM increased by 2-3 points in the post-season alone.

When you are the greatest post-season performer ever (and use the regular season as a way to get your team geared up for the post-season), the play-off sample is the most important and it is why historically, LeBron has seen massive jumps in the post-season in is RPM, more than any other player.

But, if you want to have an actual conversation, why did you pick RPM? Why do you post the RPM?

[oaktownwarriors87]

Your biases are hilarious. LeBron was hurt in 2019, 2021 and 2022 yet you don't bring up LeBron's injuries

Why do you like RPM? Do you think it captures impact better than other all-in-one statistics?

Missing half the season won't impact RPM

Sure it will, LeBron's RPM has historically increased in the post-season by staggering degrees. I am quite sure his 2016 RPM increased by 2-3 points in the post-season alone.

When you are the greatest post-season performer ever (and use the regular season as a way to get your team geared up for the post-season), the play-off sample is the most important and it is why historically, LeBron has seen massive jumps in the post-season in is RPM, more than any other player.

But, if you want to have an actual conversation, why did you pick RPM? Why do you post the RPM?

LeBron has great numbers because he beats up on bad teams. He's 4-9 against teams with an SRS of 5.0+ in the playoffs. Karl Malone has a better record than him.

Beating teams with an SRS below 5.0 isn't impressive. Jordan and Curry are literally undefeated against them. LeBron has just been fortunate to face weak competition.

And RPM is a good tool for measuring impact of elite players. It's not the end all be all, but a decade long run (with two MVP's and four rings) is pretty convincing.

Anyways, beating up bad teams and having a losing record against elite teams doesn't make you the greatest playoff preformer ever.

[AEnigma]

God you are dull.

1. Using overall SRS rather than opponent DRTG to claim that Lebron is basically statpadding.
2. Ignoring that Lebron comfortably overperforms against that elite SRS sample anyway.
3. Lebron obliterated a 7-SRS team by that measure with a garbage roster, did Curry ever do that?
4. Related to #3, so you sincerely think the 2018 Raptors are better than the 2011 Mavericks and 2010 Celtics? Because those are the two teams that killed the ever so important “undefeated against sub-5 SRS” accomplishment.
5. The Warriors for a large chunk of that stretch were a conference finals level team without Curry; when did we ever see a suggestion of the same with Lebron.

I know, I know, best not to feed the trolls…

[oaktownwarriors87]

God you are dull.

1. Using overall SRS rather than opponent DRTG to claim that Lebron is basically statpadding.
2. Ignoring that Lebron comfortably overperforms against that elite SRS sample anyway.
3. Lebron obliterated a 7-SRS team by that measure with a garbage roster, did Curry ever do that?
4. Related to #3, so you sincerely think the 2018 Raptors are better than the 2011 Mavericks and 2010 Celtics? Because those are the two teams that killed the ever so important “undefeated against sub-5 SRS” accomplishment.
5. The Warriors for a large chunk of that stretch were a conference finals level team without Curry; when did we ever see a suggestion of the same with Lebron.

I know, I know, best not to feed the trolls…

4-9. He still has some wins against elite competition. Just like Karl Malone.

And on average in the modern NBA 4 teams a year will have an SRS of 5.0+, and one of those 4 teams will win it all nearly 90% of the time. It's a great indicator of elite teams.

It's not a secret that LeBron has faced weak competition and failed against elite teams. It's common knowledge. These stats just express it and apparently it hurts your agenda.

[AEnigma]

You are the only one here single-mindedly committed to pursuing an agenda. By all means, though, continue pretending Curry was the sole force in beating a 7-SRS Spurs team without Kawhi and an 8-SRS Rockets team partially missing Chris Paul and a 5-SRS Grizzlies team partially missing Ja Morant. Continue ignoring that Draymond year after year outperforms him in postseason plus/minus (which is of course why we must use ESPN’s RPM instead ). After all, what is fandom if not an excuse to slavishly devote oneself to localised delusions of grandeur.

[falcolombardi]

Good to know the 13 spurs or 16' warriors are weak competition

[oaktownwarriors87]

You are the only one here single-mindedly committed to pursuing an agenda. By all means, though, continue pretending Curry was the sole force in beating a 7-SRS Spurs team without Kawhi and an 8-SRS Rockets team partially missing Chris Paul and a 5-SRS Grizzlies team partially missing Ja Morant. Continue ignoring that Draymond year after year outperforms him in postseason plus/minus (which is of course why we must use ESPN’s RPM instead ). After all, what is fandom if not an excuse to slavishly devote oneself to localised delusions of grandeur.

Injuries happen all the time. Even the Warriors the lost in 7 to the Cavs had injuries, including to Curry. That's not an excuses, though. A win is a win. A loss is a loss.

You're logic, or lack thereof, discredits every championship ever. You're grasping at straws.

[AEnigma]

Ah yes, that fearsome “lack of logic” in acknowledging:

— the absence or limitation of roleplayers like old Andrew Bogut and Andre Iguodala is not in fact the same as the complete absence of a team’s star or co-star;

— star absences do in fact meaningfully change the SRS value of playoff teams;

— a championship core underperforming in the regular season does not actually make them worse than the 2018 Raptors; and

— a team that can win entire playoff series without you (and has a co-star who routinely shows up as more impactful than you in those series) is probably better than one which cannot.

Funny what passes for “logic” down in the Bay Area ever since 2016…

[pillwenney]

I think there'd be slightly diminishing returns on a Kidd-Curry hybrid. Curry's real magic comes with the havoc he creates off the ball, thus (somewhat) neutering the addition of Kidd's playmaking. I think, roster dependent, the maximized version of this would be a bigger, much better defending Curry.

I think I'd still take Lebron. Close though.

[oaktownwarriors87]

Ah yes, that fearsome “lack of logic” in acknowledging:

— the absence or limitation of roleplayers like old Andrew Bogut and Andre Iguodala is not in fact the same as the complete absence of a team’s star or co-star;

— star absences do in fact meaningfully change the SRS value of playoff teams;

— a championship core underperforming in the regular season does not actually make them worse than the 2018 Raptors; and

— a team that can win entire playoff series without you (and has a co-star who routinely shows up as more impactful than you in those series) is probably better than one which cannot.

Funny what passes for “logic” down in the Bay Area ever since 2016…

You're trying to argue that Draymond Green is more impactful than Curry, and that only the Warriors, who have been riddled with injuries, benefit from injuries.

Oh, and Finals MVP Andre Iguodala was just a role player that doesn't matter.

Got it. No wonder you're so scared to quote me.

[AEnigma]

Ah yes, that fearsome “lack of logic” in acknowledging:

— the absence or limitation of roleplayers like old Andrew Bogut and Andre Iguodala is not in fact the same as the complete absence of a team’s star or co-star;

— star absences do in fact meaningfully change the SRS value of playoff teams;

— a championship core underperforming in the regular season does not actually make them worse than the 2018 Raptors; and

— a team that can win entire playoff series without you (and has a co-star who routinely shows up as more impactful than you in those series) is probably better than one which cannot.

Funny what passes for “logic” down in the Bay Area ever since 2016…

You're trying to argue that Draymond Green is more impactful than Curry

Oh but I thought plus/minus was how we knew Curry was better than Lebron? Guess it just stops mattering in the postseason, how nice for Steph.

and that only the Warriors, who have been riddled with injuries, benefit from injuries.

Steph has literally never won a title without an major opposing team going multiple games entirely missing one of their two best players, and you want to talk about SRS values and competition quality. Well, at least you say you do. Fortunately no one outside SanFran buys that bollocks.

Oh, and Finals MVP Andre Iguodala was just a role player that doesn't matter.

You mean your fourth to sixth best player? Yeah going to go ahead and say that is not equivalent to missing Kyrie and Love, or Kawhi, or Chris Paul, or Ja Morant, but yes, the fact a player that good is basically just a glorified role-player on your team is an excellent highlight of what it means to have the better supporting cast in literally every series outside the 2019 Finals.

Got it. No wonder you're so scared to quote me.

No, I just assumed you had a notification system set up to message you any time someone said anything that went against the one true gospel of Steph Curry, seeing how as far as I can tell that is the only reason most of you preachers have accounts here at all.