GT #8: Bullets @ 76ers 6 PM (NBCSW/980 AM) [11/2/2022]

[montestewart]

Bit optimistic take…let’s hope tonite was no mirage

Read on Twitter

Ha! We have proven we can win against any team -- that is missing its best player.

My prediction of 44 wins was based on an inordinate number of opponents missing their best or second best player. Nets looked at the schedule and said, “let’s start the suspension now, we can win this one without him.”

Another team underestimates the mighty Wizards and their Medium-Sized 3. Wizards lead at half, open up a big lead going into the fourth, almost completely blow it, and pull out a victory in the final minute 126 to 122.

[Wizraeli]

LOL we should put the Deni fans in a jar with the Rui fans, shake it up and let them fuss it out. Rui absolutely has gotten benched for poor efficiency (defensive in his case). So has Gafford. Rui got more minutes this game because he played better. That is how it works.
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Funny, seems to me the Deni fans were arguing he should be given a role off the bench as a playmaker etc.

Or maybe we should put in a jar all the posters that arrogantly label anyone from Israel(or Japan) as a fanboy and don't reply to the content of their comment but instead mix all the Israeli posters opinions together like it's just 1 poster, I never asked for Deni to be given a role off the bench, and I also haven't said the name Rui, but since you did, no, Rui doesn't get the same treatment as Deni, excluding players that played 10 minutes or less, even with his good last game Rui is ranked 3rd from the bottom in the team in defensive rating stat this season, but he's averaging 24 minutes per game compared to 18 by Deni, Rui also ranked 3rd from last during last season while averaging almost the same minutes as Deni(22 vs 24), when was the last time Rui got only 11 minutes in a game because his defense was bad? when was the last time Unseld said anything about it in the press conference like he did with Deni? Rui scores, Deni doesn't, that's the bottom line, but don't tell me they both are getting the same treatment regarding the defensive side, because factually they don't, and Gafford actually has a good defensive rating this season so his 14 minutes/game is not because of his defense.

You can attribute that to confidence and suggest he needs to be spoonfed

I haven't said he needs to be spoonfed, don't put other posters words in my mouth, there's a difference between asking for special treatment and asking for equal treatment, I've asked how that short leash treatment from Unseld helped Deni's offense? it didn't, and past experience also suggest it won't in the future.

that is on Deni as a professional, not on the head coach whose job it is to try to win games

3 losses, 1 win with Deni in the doghouse, so how that have worked out? and actually in that win Deni wasn't really in the doghouse, so 3 losses...good job coach.

[doclinkin]

Or maybe we should put in a jar all the posters that arrogantly label anyone from Israel(or Japan) as a fanboy

You're not a Deni fan? I read all 40 of your posts right now and yep, every single one of them is in defense of Deni. Just saying you might be a little touchy on the subject. As are the fans of any particular player, especially those who primarily follow the team because of that one player. It's all good, I don't expect fans to be unbiased, that's the point of being a fan. It just makes it an extra thing to filter when reading their arguments, knowing they are coming strong from a particular perspective.

and don't reply to the content of their comment

Sure I did. You have made your point, if I don't agree with it doesn't mean you will make that point any clearer by posting it again. And again. You believe Deni is mistreated. Especially in the Boston game. My counterpoint is you're being too sensitive on his behalf. And not understanding context of the game:

Deni was benched in the 2nd half of the Boston game. He wasn't playing well to start the game, missing FTs and FG's. His defense was below his usual high standard. If Deni is not playing well in defense he has lower utility to the team because his offense is anemic. The team fell behind by 25 pts. (-11 when Deni was on the floor). At that point it is harder to work back in a defensive specialist since the swiftest way to get back into a game is to hit 3pt shots. That's standard practice in the NBA. Deni is not the player you will turn to for volume shots from outside. So yes, he earned a longer ride on the bench.

Rui is ranked 3rd from the bottom in the team in defensive rating stat this season, but he's averaging 24 minutes per game compared to 18 by Deni

Recognize aside from the 11 minutes of the Boston game, you are also averaging in the 7 minutes Deni played when he rolled his ankle, and then rolled around on the floor for a long while waiting for the referee to give a red card to the opponent for an illegal slide tackle. Rui is out there solely for his offense. And upside, given his lack of minutes playing basketball. If he will amount to anything the only cure is experience. But yes, if Rui is missing shots, he will sit. When he was driving directly into traffic and refusing to pass the ball, he got pulled. Fortunately in the most recent game, he played better in that regard. Coaching maybe worked.

I've asked how that short leash treatment from Unseld helped Deni's offense? it didn't, and past experience also suggest it won't in the future.

Past experience has shown that Deni tends not to shoot in the NBA. Inside or out. You can blame the coach but it was also true under Scott Brooks. It was true when he had a HOF PG pumping him up entreating him to shoot more and be more aggressive.

I'm curious what you think would solve the problem of Deni's reluctance to shoot at this level. I enjoyed watching his Euro play. My contention is that in the NBA he will run into more Myles Turners (and Evan Mobley, Jarrett Allen, etc) who are swifter and longer and more athletic than you tend to see in Euro play. I get the sense that hurts his confidence more than anything a coach might do. Seems to me he is in an adjustment period and has not yet figured out what he can do that translates. He is athletic for the Israeli league, but here his athleticism is not a mismatch in his favor.

How would you coach up a player who misses lay-ups? Seems to me he simply rushes it. And is jumpy about defense closing in quickly. Its strange since he pulls off some athletic dunks in the pre-game routines. He needs a runway to get up there, but still.

FWIW I'm a Deni proponent. I personally don't think he needs to try to score until he figures out what he does that works. He is still critical to the team and has a positive effect. I think it will take a couple offseasons to add new skills and confidence in them, since that is where players put in work on their individual games. Seems to me in Euro play there is more time between games, more coaching, more time to work on sets and team play, where in the NBA players have to individually shine in order to earn minutes. I get the sense this is where Deni slips through the cracks since he has been a pro team player since he was 16. Though yeah, there he was the cocky arrogant young pup, who earned his own way on the floor. Here he is deferential. Dunno. Maybe we should hire Amare Stoudamire as his personal coach and hype man since it seems like they had good chemistry in Amare's retirement tour through the Israeli league.

[Wizraeli]

You're not a Deni fan? I read all 40 of your posts right now and yep, every single one of them is in defense of Deni. Just saying you might be a little touchy on the subject.
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and don't reply to the content of their comment

There's a difference in attitude between calling someone a Deni fan or supporter, and using the word "fanboy", you say I'm touchy, maybe your tone is just arrogant and I respond accordingly?
You didn't need to go to my comments list, you could have just mentioned my user name to label me as a "Deni fan", I don't deny being Israeli or here because of Deni, my problem is that when you approach talking to me from that perspective you along the way mix, combine or confuse what I'm saying and what other Israeli posters are saying and I need to "defend" things I haven't said, if you really read all of my comments you should have known I never asked for Deni to come off the bench and I never said he needs to be spoon-fed, in fact I repeatedly said I don't ask for it, I only asked for the Wizards to use him more as a PG instead of a scorer, and I clarified that "more" doesn't mean making him the first PG, I don't care if he'll be in the starting lineup or start on the bench, all I care about is the Wizards to stop playing him like he's suppose to become the next Davis Bertans and actually give him a role that fits his advantages and game style, if they can't or don't want to do it, then trade him for a player that will fit what the team wants better than him, keeping him here and expecting or trying to force him to become something that he's not doesn't help Deni or the Wizards.

Deni was benched in the 2nd half of the Boston game. He wasn't playing well to start the game, missing FTs and FG's. His defense was below his usual high standard. If Deni is not playing well in defense he has lower utility to the team because his offense is anemic. The team fell behind by 25 pts. (-11 when Deni was on the floor). At that point it is harder to work back in a defensive specialist since the swiftest way to get back into a game is to hit 3pt shots. That's standard practice in the NBA. Deni is not the player you will turn to for volume shots from outside. So yes, he earned a longer ride on the bench.

You are simply wrong, Deni was -11 in the first quarter but then he was +8 in the second quarter, he also had a defensive rating of 161.5 in the 1st Q' and 71.4 in the 2nd Q' which is fantastic, during that 2nd Q' he also made a 3 pt and a 2 pt baskets without missing any shot, so, no, I don't think he earned a longer ride on the bench, he made a mistake in the end of the half, but that's 1 mistake after he played well in the 2nd quarter, benching him because of that 1 mistake wasn't good coaching and didn't helped Deni or the team one bit, instead of trying to win the game with the lineup that worked in the 2nd quarter Unseld decided to bench Deni and start messing around with the rotations for the 2nd half and next games, the outcome of it is 1 - 4 balance and Deni being passive in 4 out of these 5 games.

Recognize aside from the 11 minutes of the Boston game, you are also averaging in the 7 minutes Deni played when he rolled his ankle, and then rolled around on the floor for a long while waiting for the referee to give a red card to the opponent for an illegal slide tackle

I don't understand what you meant in that part, if Deni is hurt and in pain what you wanted him to do? not to roll on the floor? especially when he explained later that he never sprained his ankle before and thought he torned or broke it again so he reacted a little more dramatically.

Rui is out there solely for his offense. And upside, given his lack of minutes playing basketball. If he will amount to anything the only cure is experience. But yes, if Rui is missing shots, he will sit. When he was driving directly into traffic and refusing to pass the ball, he got pulled. Fortunately in the most recent game, he played better in that regard. Coaching maybe worked.

You claimed Rui is getting the exact same treatment as Deni regarding his DEFENSE, I've claimed he doesn't and I've proved it with their stats, don't make it into a general comparison between the two, we all know Rui is aggressive on offense, we all know Deni is good on defense, that wasn't the point, the point was if they are getting the same accountability treatment on the defensive side, they don't.

Past experience has shown that Deni tends not to shoot in the NBA. Inside or out. You can blame the coach but it was also true under Scott Brooks.

You see how you put words in my mouth or mix other posters comments? I never blamed the coach for Deni's hesitation, what I did say is that while not being the blame at the same time he's also not doing anything productive to help him with that, you and other people can say again and again that Deni needs to solve his issues on his own, maybe that's true and maybe it isn't, the current fact is that so far that doesn't happen, if the Wizards wants to keep waiting for it to happen on its own that's their decision, what I'm saying is that I think it's a waste of both Deni's and the Wizards time and not a smart decision.

And although I haven't blamed Wes in the past, I do think now that the entire benching and doghouse treatment he gave Deni in those 3 games were stupid decisions that most likely did more damage than good regarding Deni's confidence issues.

I'm curious what you think would solve the problem of Deni's reluctance to shoot at this level. I enjoyed watching his Euro play. My contention is that in the NBA he will run into more Myles Turners (and Evan Mobley, Jarrett Allen, etc) who are swifter and longer and more athletic than you tend to see in Euro play.
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How would you coach up a player who misses lay-ups?

If you read my comments you should know the answer, in the NT he played with confidence and didn't made the stupid open layups misses he does in the NBA, the athleticism or length of the opponents are not the issue because he makes those misses when he's wide open or after he already overcomed his defender, the difference is that in the NT he plays as a playmaker and in the NBA as a last option shooter, my solution is that the coaching staff will understand he have a PG mentality and personality and not a scorer one, Rui is a scorer, he looks to score every time he gets the ball, Deni has a playmaker mentality, and his stupid pass today in the fast break shown his mentality very well, maybe instead of thinking the Israeli fans are just fanboys that wants Deni to become the star of the team you'll also listen a tiny bit to people that watched Deni play since he was 15 and knows what are his advantages and where he shines and where he doesn't, playing him as a 3 and D is a waste of time, he needs to have a similar role to what Satoransky had last season, and the more he'll get to play this way instead of standing in the corner the less we'll see him missing open layups because he won't feel like it's a do or die situation every time he'll touch the ball.

He is athletic for the Israeli league, but here his athleticism is not a mismatch in his favor

Just FYI the Israeli league is the most athletic league in Europe because it's also the most Americanized league in Europe, Deni doesn't have a noticeable problem with NBA's athleticism, length or size on defense, if he had no problem scoring on NBA players like Jokic and Markkanen in the summer in the NT while being the main target of the opponents defense with double and triple teaming him there's no reason he won't be able to do that in the NBA while playing next to other players that are the focus of the defense and leaving him with mismatches, his problem is a mental one and not a physical one.

[doclinkin]

You're not a Deni fan? I read all 40 of your posts right now and yep, every single one of them is in defense of Deni. Just saying you might be a little touchy on the subject.
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and don't reply to the content of their comment

There's a difference in attitude between calling someone a Deni fan or supporter, and using the word "fanboy", you say I'm touchy, maybe your tone is just arrogant and I respond accordingly?

HA! re read. I said fan. You said fanboy.

LOL we should put the Deni fans ...

Funny, seems to me the Deni fans were arguing he should be given a role off the bench as a playmaker etc. and that he was lost in the starting unit. Okay, in this game he was commonly bringing the ball up the court to initiate the offense. He still didn't shoot, and when he did he still missed shots.

...fanboy...

Your word not mine. Now I think you're arguing just to be disagreeable.

if you really read all of my comments you should have known I never asked for Deni to come off the bench and I never said he needs to be spoon-fed, in fact I repeatedly said I don't ask for it, I only asked for the Wizards to use him more as a PG instead of a scorer, and I clarified that "more" doesn't mean making him the first PG, I don't care if he'll be in the starting lineup or start on the bench, all I care about is the Wizards to stop playing him like he's suppose to become the next Davis Bertans and actually give him a role that fits his advantages and game style,

OK, I was wrong in saying you wanted him to be used as a playmaker off the bench-- you just want him to be used as a playmaker, either as a starter OR off the bench. Way to ignore the point: With Delon out Deni is commonly bringing the ball up court with the 2nd unit, initiating the action. But he's the one who passes it away and fails to attack when he has the ball. You're blaming everyone but Deni for his failings. He's a fine player and will get better, but it is not the coach's fault if he tosses the ball to the other team on a breakaway because he is scared to dunk.

Deni was benched in the 2nd half of the Boston game. He wasn't playing well to start the game, missing FTs and FG's. His defense was below his usual high standard. If Deni is not playing well in defense he has lower utility to the team because his offense is anemic. The team fell behind by 25 pts. (-11 when Deni was on the floor). At that point it is harder to work back in a defensive specialist since the swiftest way to get back into a game is to hit 3pt shots. That's standard practice in the NBA. Deni is not the player you will turn to for volume shots from outside. So yes, he earned a longer ride on the bench.

You are simply wrong, Deni was -11 in the first quarter but then he was +8 in the second quarter,

Sure, he had a nice 3 minute stretch and was part of a run that started when Anthony Gill (+8 in that stretch) and Jordan Goodwin (+13) were inserted into the game. The coaching staff tried those two out in the 2nd half, fair to see if they had better chemistry. The season is still young. See what you've got.

Recognize aside from the 11 minutes of the Boston game, you are also averaging in the 7 minutes Deni played when he rolled his ankle, and then rolled around on the floor for a long while waiting for the referee to give a red card to the opponent for an illegal slide tackle

I don't understand what you meant in that part, if Deni is hurt and in pain what you wanted him to do? not to roll on the floor? especially when he explained later that he never sprained his ankle before and thought he torned or broke it again so he reacted a little more dramatically.

Simply that he reacted dramatically. I now wonder if him reacting dramatically in general may mean he draws negative attention that affects his chemistry with teammates or coaches. It's possible. In the NBA there is a culture of trying to pretend you are not hurt even in the case of serious injury. John Wall was playing with bone spurs in his heels and knee damage. It's not smart but stoicism gains respect.

I'm curious what you think would solve the problem of Deni's reluctance to shoot at this level. I enjoyed watching his Euro play. My contention is that in the NBA he will run into more Myles Turners (and Evan Mobley, Jarrett Allen, etc) who are swifter and longer and more athletic than you tend to see in Euro play.
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How would you coach up a player who misses lay-ups?

If you read my comments you should know the answer, in the NT he played with confidence and didn't made the stupid open layups misses he does in the NBA, the athleticism or length of the opponents are not the issue because he makes those misses when he's wide open or after he already overcomed his defender, the difference is that in the NT he plays as a playmaker and in the NBA as a last option shooter, my solution is that the coaching staff will understand he have a PG mentality and personality and not a scorer one, Rui is a scorer, he looks to score every time he gets the ball, Deni has a playmaker mentality, and his stupid pass today in the fast break shown his mentality very well, maybe instead of thinking the Israeli fans are just fanboys that wants Deni to become the star of the team you'll also listen a tiny bit to people that watched Deni play since he was 15 and knows what are his advantages and where he shines and where he doesn't, playing him as a 3 and D is a waste of time, he needs to have a similar role to what Satoransky had last season, and the more he'll get to play this way instead of standing in the corner the less we'll see him missing open layups because he won't feel like it's a do or die situation every time he'll touch the ball.

Ah, so your answer on how to treat a player who is missing shots is to give them more shots. Sure. Like it's just practice out there, it's not like the games count or anything.

He is athletic for the Israeli league, but here his athleticism is not a mismatch in his favor

Just FYI the Israeli league is the most athletic league in Europe because it's also the most Americanized league in Europe, Deni doesn't have a noticeable problem with NBA's athleticism, length or size on defense, if he had no problem scoring on NBA players like Jokic and Markkanen in the summer in the NT while being the main target of the opponents defense with double and triple teaming him there's no reason he won't be able to do that in the NBA while playing next to other players that are the focus of the defense and leaving him with mismatches, his problem is a mental one and not a physical one.

[/quote]

Or it's both mental and physical. But no, neither Jokic nor Markannen are notable defenders. Markannen has bounced around the league in part because he never played as strong as the teams expected him to, until this year. Jokic was notably weak as a defender until the Nuggs developed schemes to hide him.

And yeah, no on the pure athleticism of the Israeli league. I've watched Superleague games here and there since David Blatt was coaching Sarunas Jasikevicius, Maceo Baston etc. back in their run. There is a reason why Deni is the first lotto pick from Israel, they are a tier below the Spanish ACB league and the NBL of Australia/NZ. There's a reason why toothless old Amare Staudamire was able still to play there. Hell, there are more NBA players currently in the league from Deni's dad's home country of Serbia than have ever graduated to the NBA from the Israeli leagues.

But now I'M just picking pointless fights LOL

[tleikheen]

WUJ doesnt have his teams attn ....... What happened to Morris and Barton teaching the Wiz guys the Denver way from their days at Denver ? That doesnt seem to be going so well. I remember when the SF position was wide open for who played the best and won the job . That was Rui Hachimura, yet the guy who didnt even compete in pre season was named starter,Deni Avidja. Then he lasted 5 1/2 games and was replaced by someone who didnt even compete for the starting position,Anthony Gill. You think Rui and Deni are wondering whats going on already ? Dont you get the feeling WUJ is trying to win games by defense on a team that is built more for offense. The core has not been emphasized and they dont look like they play hard and committed to Wes's direction .We need a offense Coach not a defensive Coach .

[Wizraeli]

HA! re read. I said fan. You said fanboy.

You're right, my mistake, unlike other people here, including you, I can admit when I make one, it doesn't change what I've said about your arrogant tone though.

Now I think you're arguing just to be disagreeable

Look in the mirror, I took the time to seriously answer you and tried to be respectful, you're the one making smiley filled comments.

OK, I was wrong in saying you wanted him to be used as a playmaker off the bench-- you just want him to be used as a playmaker, either as a starter OR off the bench. Way to ignore the point: With Delon out Deni is commonly bringing the ball up court with the 2nd unit, initiating the action. But he's the one who passes it away and fails to attack when he has the ball. You're blaming everyone but Deni for his failings. He's a fine player and will get better, but it is not the coach's fault if he tosses the ball to the other team on a breakaway because he is scared to dunk.

Again with putting words in my mouth and then arguing about it, saying that I don't care if he'll start or will come off the bench is the same as asking for him to come off the bench? are you sure I'm the one with English as a second language?
And you decided I'm blaming everyone but Deni, if you actually read my comments like you've said you did you would have seen I've said multiple times it's both Deni's fault and the coaching staff, but again I need to defend things I never said.

Sure, he had a nice 3 minute stretch and was part of a run that started when Anthony Gill (+8 in that stretch) and Jordan Goodwin (+13) were inserted into the game. The coaching staff tried those two out in the 2nd half, fair to see if they had better chemistry. The season is still young. See what you've got..

You claimed he was benched because he started bad, was -11, missed FT's and FG's and his defense was below his usual high standard, that's all true for the 1st quarter, in the 2nd quarter he was +8, didn't missed a shot and according to his def rtg his defense was higher even than his usual standards, you can say what you want about Gill and Goodwin, but during that 3 minutes with +8 Deni scored 5 points without a miss, so he had a direct part of 5 out of those 8 points in the run when he was on court, he was benched because of the last play of the half, and that's double standards and again, how messing with the rotations worked out?

In the NBA there is a culture of trying to pretend you are not hurt even in the case of serious injury. John Wall was playing with bone spurs in his heels and knee damage. It's not smart but stoicism gains respect.

Deni played in the summer in the NT with a groin injury while hiding it from the press in case you've forgotten, you're really trying to say something about his character or toughness because he showed pain while spraining an ankle he broke a year ago?

Ah, so your answer on how to treat a player who is missing shots is to give them more shots. Sure. Like it's just practice out there, it's not like the games count or anything.

Again, words in my mouth, does the role of point guards is to take shots or to make assists and organize the offense? when I'm asking to stop playing him as a shooter I'm asking to give him more shots? that's what you understand from it? maybe stop putting words in my mouth and start actually trying to understand what I'm saying.

Jokic nor Markannen are notable defenders

Just like a good portion of the players in this league that Deni is guarded by, but for some reason you talk like all of NBA players are Ben Wallace, in the NT he played without illegal defense, without defensive 3 seconds, closer 3 pt line that cluttered the defense, and when the opposing team targeting him with double and sometimes triple defenders, still he looked a lot more aggressive and didn't made those stupid misses.

And yeah, no on the pure athleticism of the Israeli league. I've watched Superleague games here and there since David Blatt was coaching Sarunas Jasikevicius, Maceo Baston etc.

David Blatt wasn't the head coach of the team with Jasikevicius and Baston, he was an assistant for 1 year and then left, but that's what you might think or remember when you watch "here and there", I haven't watched "here and there", I'm following the Israeli league and several of the European leagues since the early 90s, it's a known conception that regarding athleticism, the Israeli league is the most athletic in Europe, nobody talked about tiers or general rankings, we talked about athleticism, and it's not because of the Israeli players but because of the Americans, American players has tax benefits in Israel while Israeli and European players don't, together with most of the population speaking English and the nice weather it makes Israel one of the most attractive countries to play in Europe for Americans and also make signing Americans more financially beneficial for the teams, that's why the league has the highest percentage of American players in Europe, which makes it the most athletic, and regarding general rankings, the Israeli league was ranked between 6th and 8th in Europe just a month ago, depending on what ranking you look at, so saying "a tier below" is an exaggeration to say the least.

There is a reason why Deni is the first lotto pick from Israel, they are a tier below the Spanish ACB league and the NBL of Australia/NZ. There's a reason why toothless old Amare Staudamire was able still to play there. Hell, there are more NBA players currently in the league from Deni's dad's home country of Serbia than have ever graduated to the NBA from the Israeli leagues.

Again we're talking about athleticism, not the general level of the leagues, and like I've said the Israeli league is athletic because of it's Americans and not the Israelis so what the number of Israeli lottery picks got to do with anything? how's that say anything about athleticism? you can't be very athletic but still not good enough to be a lottery pick? Stoudemire got a good amount of minutes in the end of the season in Maccabi because of injuries, but generally speaking he was the 3rd or 4th center in the hierarchy until then in a team that had 7 players that either played before or after in the NBA and 11 American born players, him being on that already packed team only emphasizing my point about the Americans packed league.

Serbia is one of the best countries in the world in developing players, obviously they will have a good amount of players in the NBA, how being good is equal to being athletic? is Jokic athletic? he's the MVP for the last 2 years, is it because of his jumping ability and great running speed? does Europeans in general are known for their athletic abilities? that got nothing to do with the subject.

[Dolevi]

HA! re read. I said fan. You said fanboy.

You're right, my mistake, unlike other people here, including you, I can admit when I make one, it doesn't change what I've said about your arrogant tone though.

Now I think you're arguing just to be disagreeable

Look in the mirror, I took the time to seriously answer you and tried to be respectful, you're the one making smiley filled comments.

OK, I was wrong in saying you wanted him to be used as a playmaker off the bench-- you just want him to be used as a playmaker, either as a starter OR off the bench. Way to ignore the point: With Delon out Deni is commonly bringing the ball up court with the 2nd unit, initiating the action. But he's the one who passes it away and fails to attack when he has the ball. You're blaming everyone but Deni for his failings. He's a fine player and will get better, but it is not the coach's fault if he tosses the ball to the other team on a breakaway because he is scared to dunk.

Again with putting words in my mouth and then arguing about it, saying that I don't care if he'll start or will come off the bench is the same as asking for him to come off the bench? are you sure I'm the one with English as a second language?
And you decided I'm blaming everyone but Deni, if you actually read my comments like you've said you did you would have seen I've said multiple times it's both Deni's fault and the coaching staff, but again I need to defend things I never said.

Sure, he had a nice 3 minute stretch and was part of a run that started when Anthony Gill (+8 in that stretch) and Jordan Goodwin (+13) were inserted into the game. The coaching staff tried those two out in the 2nd half, fair to see if they had better chemistry. The season is still young. See what you've got..

You claimed he was benched because he started bad, was -11, missed FT's and FG's and his defense was below his usual high standard, that's all true for the 1st quarter, in the 2nd quarter he was +8, didn't missed a shot and according to his def rtg his defense was higher even than his usual standards, you can say what you want about Gill and Goodwin, but during that 3 minutes with +8 Deni scored 5 points without a miss, so he had a direct part of 5 out of those 8 points in the run when he was on court, he was benched because of the last play of the half, and that's double standards and again, how messing with the rotations worked out?

In the NBA there is a culture of trying to pretend you are not hurt even in the case of serious injury. John Wall was playing with bone spurs in his heels and knee damage. It's not smart but stoicism gains respect.

Deni played in the summer in the NT with a groin injury while hiding it from the press in case you've forgotten, you're really trying to say something about his character or toughness because he showed pain while spraining an ankle he broke a year ago?

Ah, so your answer on how to treat a player who is missing shots is to give them more shots. Sure. Like it's just practice out there, it's not like the games count or anything.

Again, words in my mouth, does the role of point guards is to take shots or to make assists and organize the offense? when I'm asking to stop playing him as a shooter I'm asking to give him more shots? that's what you understand from it? maybe stop putting words in my mouth and start actually trying to understand what I'm saying.

Jokic nor Markannen are notable defenders

Just like a good portion of the players in this league that Deni is guarded by, but for some reason you talk like all of NBA players are Ben Wallace, in the NT he played without illegal defense, without defensive 3 seconds, closer 3 pt line that cluttered the defense, and when the opposing team targeting him with double and sometimes triple defenders, still he looked a lot more aggressive and didn't made those stupid misses.

And yeah, no on the pure athleticism of the Israeli league. I've watched Superleague games here and there since David Blatt was coaching Sarunas Jasikevicius, Maceo Baston etc.

David Blatt wasn't the head coach of the team with Jasikevicius and Baston, he was an assistant for 1 year and then left, but that's what you might think or remember when you watch "here and there", I haven't watched "here and there", I'm following the Israeli league and several of the European leagues since the early 90s, it's a known conception that regarding athleticism, the Israeli league is the most athletic in Europe, nobody talked about tiers or general rankings, we talked about athleticism, and it's not because of the Israeli players but because of the Americans, American players has tax benefits in Israel while Israeli and European players don't, together with most of the population speaking English and the nice weather it makes Israel one of the most attractive countries to play in Europe for Americans and also make signing Americans more financially beneficial for the teams, that's why the league has the highest percentage of American players in Europe, which makes it the most athletic, and regarding general rankings, the Israeli league was ranked between 6th and 8th in Europe just a month ago, depending on what ranking you look at, so saying "a tier below" is an exaggeration to say the least.

There is a reason why Deni is the first lotto pick from Israel, they are a tier below the Spanish ACB league and the NBL of Australia/NZ. There's a reason why toothless old Amare Staudamire was able still to play there. Hell, there are more NBA players currently in the league from Deni's dad's home country of Serbia than have ever graduated to the NBA from the Israeli leagues.

Again we're talking about athleticism, not the general level of the leagues, and like I've said the Israeli league is athletic because of it's Americans and not the Israelis so what the number of Israeli lottery picks got to do with anything? how's that say anything about athleticism? you can't be very athletic but still not good enough to be a lottery pick? Stoudemire got a good amount of minutes in the end of the season in Maccabi because of injuries, but generally speaking he was the 3rd or 4th center in the hierarchy until then in a team that had 7 players that either played before or after in the NBA and 11 American born players, him being on that already packed team only emphasizing my point about the Americans packed league.

Serbia is one of the best countries in the world in developing players, obviously they will have a good amount of players in the NBA, how being good is equal to being athletic? is Jokic athletic? he's the MVP for the last 2 years, is it because of his jumping ability and great running speed? does Europeans in general are known for their athletic abilities? that got nothing to do with the subject.

Wizraeli I admire your motivation to try and convince people in here, but the truth is, that you must recognize that Deni has a part and responsibility for his actions as well. Offcourse you have a lot of things and factors that may not help him to fulfill his potential, and he does have a huge potential (and really if the Wiz think to re-build around someone right now for the future out of this roster, probably they would have taken Deni under consideration plus they need to try and maximize his potential so they'll be better)..

In the end, this is the situation. It isn't a nice situation to be at, organization which doesn't decide whether to tank or play to win. Pay Beal max and let KP and Kuz take control, and on the other hand "try" to give chances to Rui, Kispert and Deni to show what they can do near them. Will that work? Probably not. But this is the situation and it's indeed crappy. And I bet that probably in another franchise Deni could have been better, But, Rui unlike Deni sometimes being aggressive with confidence and fights for his minutes, Deni doesn't do that and he plays like all is granted. I believe Deni has the potential to be the best in this team, but he needs to think about right now, and how right now he can influence the game also on offense. Even in this situation. So LET'S blame all the world for Deni being passive except himself. Btw all what i'm saying is from an Israeli perspective. I'm objective. You should be like that as well and judge him as he is.

[Wizraeli]

So LET'S blame all the world for Deni being passive except himself.Btw all what i'm saying is from an Israeli perspective. I'm objective. You should be like that as well and judge him as he is.

But where did I blame the entire world except Deni? I repeatedly said Deni got equal part of the blame, I repeatedly said he's passive, I repeatedly said he hesitates, I've called his pass in the fast break yesterday stupid, why I need to continue and defend myself against things I did not say? I've said 3 simple things:

1. The blame is on Deni.
2. The blame is on the coaching staff as well.
3. Deni's mentality is more of a playmaker than a scorer, so develop him as a playmaker instead of trying to force him being something he's not.

I don't see how wishing for a lineup of Deni, Beal, Rui, Kuzma and Porziņģis with Deni as a PG is such a bad thing, how thinking it's a good solution for Deni's confidence problems is not being objective? it worked well against the 76ers, there's no reason it won't work well against other teams as well.

[Dolevi]

Good,
Then we agree that Deni needs to wake up..
As I said, the situation is crappy and you have a lot of bad things around. But if Deni won't help himself, nobody will help him. And about the playmaking, you see right now he has been given some chances to do it, yet he's not looking good. I'm talking about the last several games. And it's up to him. With all the issuse and problems, he gotta do better to show he desevers to be in the floor / playmake. It's not just defense. Do you agree?

[Wizraeli]

It looked good against the 76ers, I agree Deni needs to wake up but I also agree that Unseld's offense is chaotic, not very smart, unorganized and confused, so it's not wonder Deni looks confused as well.

[doclinkin]

Wizraeli I admire your motivation to try and convince people in here, but the truth is, that you must recognize that Deni has a part and responsibility for his actions as well. Offcourse you have a lot of things and factors that may not help him to fulfill his potential, and he does have a huge potential (and really if the Wiz think to re-build around someone right now for the future out of this roster, probably they would have taken Deni under consideration plus they need to try and maximize his potential so they'll be better)..

In the end, this is the situation. It isn't a nice situation to be at, organization which doesn't decide whether to tank or play to win. Pay Beal max and let KP and Kuz take control, and on the other hand "try" to give chances to Rui, Kispert and Deni to show what they can do near them. Will that work? Probably not. But this is the situation and it's indeed crappy. And I bet that probably in another franchise Deni could have been better, But, Rui unlike Deni sometimes being aggressive with confidence and fights for his minutes, Deni doesn't do that and he plays like all is granted. I believe Deni has the potential to be the best in this team, but he needs to think about right now, and how right now he can influence the game also on offense. Even in this situation. So LET'S blame all the world for Deni being passive except himself. Btw all what i'm saying is from an Israeli perspective. I'm objective. You should be like that as well and judge him as he is.

This is where I am as well. Deni is one of my favorite players on the team precisely for what he does do well. His defense is a revelation. He is a smart team player. He plays the spaces and angles between players, and I wish the rest of the team had the same good habits he has learned in team play. If Rui had Deni's grasp of the game he would be LeBron-esque.

I agree on frustration with the team's outlook and direction. GM Tommy has long admired European and international players for their fundamentals and understanding of the game. The NBA lacks the time and reps to develop the smart team play you see at the highest levels of Euro play. I watch Euro games on pirated feed all the time and wish we had the ability to develop that sort of cohesion on this team instead of relying on individual standouts. The Spurs in the past managed to do it, the Warriors still do, but few other teams are able to implement a team system with that level of buy-in by the players. Instead teams rely on stars to bend probability in their favor. Here we keep hiring Euro and international players, but end up playing the American style of expecting the stars to carry everything. It's a failure.

It seems to me we have a rare opportunity with this squad to develop a team culture, outlook, system in part because our G-League team share the same building and practice facility. And in part because we did recruit smart team players like Deni. If we could use that synergy to train players up, we could develop chemistry where players end up better than their individual talents. The problem is that would require leadership to change the culture, in the way Pat Riley changed the Miami Heat from a backwater franchise in a party city that didn't care about basketball into a perennial powerhouse team, simply based on a culture of excellence and high expectations.

I don't disagree with the idea that there is a double standard for stars vs everyone else. Or even perceived stars. Or the owner's favorites. But that is the NBA. Period.

AND Deni needs to do some work to assert himself while he is on court. Aggressive, looking to score. He does have the ball now. HE gives it away trying to make plays for others at times when the right play would be to attack immediately and force the opponents to respect you. I expect big things from Deni. So I will hold him accountable. The coaches have to work with what he is giving them. Right now his timid nature on offense means that it is easier for defenses when he is on the court. He does touch the ball enough that he could influence the game at this end. Part of playmaking is knowing when to call your own number. That way you can keep defenses off balance. He did it in Euro play, but in the NBA has not yet figured out how to asset himself and even his fans admit the problem is in his confidence and mindset. The answer is in Deni, not in the coaching. I think he will get there. But he gets there on his own, not because his fans complain "It's not fair" and point at other players' situations.

I can only think of one thing that would help speed up the process for him: Deni needs a vet. He needs a guy on the squad who will make him their personal project. He needs an Andre Iguodala or Manu Ginobili type who have learned how to influence the game both with aggression and team play. Someone who can point out the moments when he needs to floor the accelerator and force defenses to scramble, or when to lay back and let the play develop. This is an area where Euro teams do it well. Commonly veterans shape newcomers to fit them into a team system. Where winning teams help smooth way for new players coming in. You need guys who have already won, who can demonstrate winning attitude and habits.

That and he needs more of what he did this summer: work with a skills coach. Strength and conditioning. And high level success. I wish the NT were better so that he would have World Cup play to add to his resume.

What he doesn't need is excuses. He is doing a good job in all areas but one: attacking the basket. As he adds that element to his game and is successful at it, he will develop confidence and earn the confidence of the rest of the team.

[doclinkin]

It looked good against the 76ers, I agree Deni needs to wake up but I also agree that Unseld's offense is chaotic, not very smart, unorganized and confused, so it's not wonder Deni looks confused as well.

New players. New roles. Starters who have never played with each other. 2nd year coach with only one disjointed season under his belt. Deni injured during training camp. Deni in Eurobasket play instead of stateside in the gym with the guys.

And yet Deni was given a starting role. He has had opportunities, but it is a learning curve for all the players right now. And the coaches. If chemistry develops it doesn't happen all at once. They need a string of good play and learning who plays well together. Some part is testing out line-ups. Fine with me if we lose a bunch since what we need most is an infusion of high end talent. Along the way we will see what line-ups work, even if we give away leads with experimentation. At somepoint some of the lines hopefully click and you put together a win streak here or there. First you win, then you get good.

[Dolevi]

Here we keep hiring Euro and international players, but end up playing the American style of expecting the stars to carry everything. It's a failure.

Yes.

AND Deni needs to do some work to assert himself while he is on court. Aggressive, looking to score. He does have the ball now. HE gives it away trying to make plays for others at times when the right play would be to attack immediately and force the opponents to respect you. I expect big things from Deni. So I will hold him accountable. The coaches have to work with what he is giving them. Right now his timid nature on offense means that it is easier for defenses when he is on the court. He does touch the ball enough that he could influence the game at this end. Part of playmaking is knowing when to call your own number. That way you can keep defenses off balance. He did it in Euro play, but in the NBA has not yet figured out how to asset himself and even his fans admit the problem is in his confidence and mindset. The answer is in Deni, not in the coaching. I think he will get there. But he gets there on his own, not because his fans complain "It's not fair" and point at other players' situations.

100%

I can only think of one thing that would help speed up the process for him: Deni needs a vet. He needs a guy on the squad who will make him their personal project.

Beal?

Commonly veterans shape newcomers to fit them into a team system. Where winning teams help smooth way for new players coming in. You need guys who have already won, who can demonstrate winning attitude and habits.

Agreed and actually I think it's something this roster needs even without taking Deni into consideration. Indeed your roster lacks of experience and leadership. And when i'm saying experience I mean indeed not just experience of playing games, experience of winning also as you said. We have nobody who's like that. All losers with all due respect.