Better Defensively: Andre Kirelinko or Shawn Marion

[mdonnelly1989]

Better Defensively: Andre Kirelinko or Shawn Marion

[penbeast0]

At peak, I would go with Kirilenko, but I think Marion was more consistent in his impact over his prime.

[migya]

Kirilenko looked like he had more defensive impact than anyone at his peak in around 2003.

[No-more-rings]

I was under the impression that Kirilenko was a different tier of defender, but it’s possible I may be overstating his impact. Marion was a strong man defender, but not really elite overall.

[penbeast0]

I was under the impression that Kirilenko was a different tier of defender, but it’s possible I may be overstating his impact. Marion was a strong man defender, but not really elite overall.

Actually, Marion's best defensive attribute was as a help defender (badly needed on those teams with Amare and Nash), though he was a willing and hyperathletic man defender with excellent quickness. That's how he got the nickname, The Matrix, because he filled up all the boxes on the boxscore with points, rebounds, steals, and blocks (not going to mention assists here). AK47 was even more of a shotblocking outlier, probably the GOAT SF eraser, with more length and better court vision but not Marion's quickness or leaping ability.

[No-more-rings]

I was under the impression that Kirilenko was a different tier of defender, but it’s possible I may be overstating his impact. Marion was a strong man defender, but not really elite overall.

Actually, Marion's best defensive attribute was as a help defender (badly needed on those teams with Amare and Nash), though he was a willing and hyperathletic man defender with excellent quickness. That's how he got the nickname, The Matrix, because he filled up all the boxes on the boxscore with points, rebounds, steals, and blocks (not going to mention assists here). AK47 was even more of a shotblocking outlier, probably the GOAT SF eraser, with more length and better court vision but not Marion's quickness or leaping ability.

Depends how you define “help defense” in this context. I don’t disagree he was helpful in those other areas you mentioned, but he was no Kawhi or even Paul George as a “help defender”.

Beyond that point, Andre’s ability as a rim protector seems vastly more important particularly in an era like that.

Neither are true anchors I don’t think, but Kirilenko might have at least bordered on that for a few years. Interestingly though the Jazz had quite a few bad years on defense.

[kcktiny]

I think over the past 4-5 decades the truly elite defending SF/PFs were Bobby Jones, Larry Nance, and Andrei Kirilenko.

I believe Shawn Marion is definitely in the next tier of best defending SF/PFs. A really smart defending SF/PF like Larry Bird.

[penbeast0]

I think you are grossly overrating Bird who was a below average defender at SF, though above average at PF. Marion at his best doesn't equal Kirilenko at his best but Marion in his best 5 year stretch is pretty close to Kirilenko in his best 5 year stretch. Also . . . Dennis Rodman, Ron Artest, Bo Outlaw?

[kcktiny]

Rodman played primarily SF his first 4-5 seasons, primarily PF after. I was thinking of players that played both SF/PF during most of their careers. If you include Rodman he is truly elite. Artest I have always thought of as only a SF. But, again, a top/elite defender.

Kirilenko and Marion were starters almost all of their careers. So I was thinking only starters. In 15 seasons Bo Outlaw played 2000+ minutes in a season just 4 times, and started less than 2/5 of the games he played in. But again, if included, he was a very good to excellent defender, especially the first half of his career.

I think you are grossly overrating Bird who was a below average defender at SF, though above average at PF.

I stand by what I said about Bird. A very good to excellent and smart defender - especially his first 9 seasons with the Celtics (1979-80 to 1987-88) when they were the league's 2nd best team defensively at 103.1 pts/100poss allowed. Only Milwaukee was better during that time. And Bird alone played 1/7 to 1/6 of their total regular season minutes played those 9 years, and over 6000 more minutes than any other Celtic.

He was even named all-defensive 2nd team 3 straight seasons (1981-82 to 1983-84). The only forwards named on the first team over him those 3 years were Bobby Jones and Dan Roundfield.

[Duke4life831]

Marion definitely had a longer career/peak. But ya at their peaks Id side with AK47 without much hesitation. And this isnt really a shot at Marion either, there arent too many perimeter defenders over the last 2 decades I would choose over a prime AK47.

To me AK47 is one of my go to guys for who I think played a decade or so too early. I think in today's NBA his versatility on defense would be even more recognized and appreciated. I think he would be a multi DPOY winner if he played today.

[canada_dry]

Kirlenko easily tbh

Sent from my SM-G960W using RealGM mobile app

[cupcakesnake]

I think Marion should be on the list of the best defenders ever who weren't centers. I'm not saying he's at the top of the list, just on it.

I vaguely think of him as a 8 (out of 10) help defender and and an 8 (out of 10) man defender. He's not the most disruptive player I've ever seen, but he used his motor and athleticism to disrupt a ton of stuff all over the court. Defensively it's rare to have a guy you wish could be defending Tony Parker AND Tim Duncan on a team. The way the Suns used Marion as a point of attack defender in the playoffs was a bit unique at the time and became popular after. Marion was positionless on defense in an era where we didn't care about that at all. I think Marion in this era would get a ton more credit for his defensive versatility. I think in his own era, Marion might have gotten more credit if he'd been doing his thing on a good defensive team, rather than propping up weak defenses. Players don't tend to get credit for that, while Marcus Smart wins defensive player of the year sort of by default of being a recognizable name on a great defensive team.

I'm slightly surprised to see Kirilenko dominating the vote so far. He was similar to Marion in that he had to prop up a really weak defensive frontcourt (Boozer vs. Stoudemire, who ya got defensively!). I think no one was better than Kirilenko at surprising with length (I always give Tayshaun Prince a lot of credit for this but Kirilenko was on another level). His ability to provide rim protection and contest shot all over the floor felt like an outlier early in his career. But he was fairly slow-footed, especially compared to Marion. Everything Kirilenko did revolved around his obscene length paired with decent mobility for his size. The defensive weapon were all picturing only existed for 4-5 years. Young Kirilenko was blocking Kobe in highlights. Old Kirilenko was more solid than spectacular (when he wasn't in Russia)

Marion was stronger, quicker, more athletic, and I think smarter on defense. He didn't have any one tool superior to Kirilenko reach advantage, but I'll take the all-around excellence that Marion brought for 15+ years.

[migya]

Kirilenko in his prime, had Garnett like Defensive effect. He was huge for the Jazz in the mid 00s.

[Jaivl]

I don't think it's even close in either direction, peak for Kirilenko, prime/career for Marion.

[atlantabbq99]

Marion and Josh Smith by a mile over AK