Re: Trade Talk (Part Eleven): 2022 Offseason Edition

[BlacJacMac]

It’s time to call up Brooklyn.

Kyrie yes. BS no.

If that’s what you’re referring to

Kat for durant straight up?

So trade a guy that still wants to be here for a guy that isn’t happy anywhere and will be asking out by the All Star Break?

[TimberKat]

Kyrie yes. BS no.

If that’s what you’re referring to

Kat for durant straight up?

So trade a guy that still wants to be here for a guy that isn’t happy anywhere and will be asking out by the All Star Break?

I won't do Kat for Durant either. Durant is trending down and I think KAT could get better if he fix a few minor things. Besides, I would have to change my login handle.

[TimberKat]

Simmons has been terrible. Plus the price we paid for Gobert is the price we paid for Gobert. Cannot magic that away. You don’t trade 50 dollars for 20 quarters.

I watched a few BKN games this year. I don't feel Simmons is specifically bad. I just don't feel he wants to play basketball but just out there get 6 fouls early and be done. Maybe he is just happy to be a sheep rancher (a little Darko reference) or a rapper.

Supposed you bought a nice used Mercedes for $20K then found out it's got a bad transmission and won't run in Minnesota winter. What are you going to do? You can't get your money back from the used car salescum. Walk to the grocery in snow until someone offers you $20K? As with any used car, the longer you hang on to it, the lower the price goes.

Simmons is a bad four year contract. By your own words “ I just don't feel he wants to play basketball but just out there get 6 fouls early and be done.” That is the worst possible thing to bring onto your team.

Gobert isn’t losing value. Even if he is a bad fit for us (which he isn’t,) other teams will still want him. Your analogy only works if Rudy is incapable of playing at a high level. He has already had multiple 20 rebound games. It’s more like you bought a Lexus and because you don’t like the color you want to trade it for a moped.

So there are assumptions to this trade proposal:
1. The player (Simmons) is willing and like to play on your team
2. We did over pay for Gobert already to keep JMcD and entice Ainge to blow up the team. So you will not get the same value back.
3. We only talk about the core pieces but that doesn’t preclude other pieces and maybe a third team get involve
4. Do you know how much family disruption it causes when pick up your kids from school in a pink Cadillac?

[theGreatRC]

There's rumors that Wolves are "open to trading for Kyrie" according to Windhorst.

I keep seeing it on twitter but can't actually find the quote, I just see other people tweeting about it

[winforlose]

I watched a few BKN games this year. I don't feel Simmons is specifically bad. I just don't feel he wants to play basketball but just out there get 6 fouls early and be done. Maybe he is just happy to be a sheep rancher (a little Darko reference) or a rapper.

Supposed you bought a nice used Mercedes for $20K then found out it's got a bad transmission and won't run in Minnesota winter. What are you going to do? You can't get your money back from the used car salescum. Walk to the grocery in snow until someone offers you $20K? As with any used car, the longer you hang on to it, the lower the price goes.

Simmons is a bad four year contract. By your own words “ I just don't feel he wants to play basketball but just out there get 6 fouls early and be done.” That is the worst possible thing to bring onto your team.

Gobert isn’t losing value. Even if he is a bad fit for us (which he isn’t,) other teams will still want him. Your analogy only works if Rudy is incapable of playing at a high level. He has already had multiple 20 rebound games. It’s more like you bought a Lexus and because you don’t like the color you want to trade it for a moped.

So there are assumptions to this trade proposal:
1. The player (Simmons) is willing and like to play on your team
2. We did over pay for Gobert already to keep JMcD and entice Ainge to blow up the team. So you will not get the same value back.
3. We only talk about the core pieces but that doesn’t preclude other pieces and maybe a third team get involve
4. Do you know how much family disruption it causes when pick up your kids from school in a pink Cadillac?

1. Simmons doesn’t want to play period. Show up and get paid for four years and retire set for life. Assuming the voices in his head let him keep showing up for four years. That is always a gamble.

2. Don’t trade a player for bad value just because you cannot get as much value as you paid for him. I am not sure I would even give Dlo straight up for Simmons, much less Gobert. Simmons has four years of bad money and bad drama. It is a major distraction which can turn into a major headache before you blink.

3. Gobert is worth 3 to 4 times Simmons at least. Simmons is the highest risk asset in the entire league. Maybe the third team pays 80% or what we paid and gives a better fitting player we can talk about it. But you aren’t even at 10% of what we paid.

4. Better a pink Cady then a rusted dodge with cracks in the wind shield, dents on all the doors, paint scraped off the sides and bullet holes on the hood. Simmons turning into a dumpster fire would be an upgrade.

[TimberKat]

There's rumors that Wolves are "open to trading for Kyrie" according to Windhorst.

I keep seeing it on twitter but can't actually find the quote, I just see other people tweeting about it

Looks like salary works too. But maybe Windhorst is just monitoring this msg thread

[winforlose]

There's rumors that Wolves are "open to trading for Kyrie" according to Windhorst.

I keep seeing it on twitter but can't actually find the quote, I just see other people tweeting about it

Looks like salary works too. But maybe Windhorst is just monitoring this msg thread

Trading for Kyrie would put us into the tax and just under the apron. You only do it if you plan to extend him long term. The problem with extending him long term is that he is a locker room cancer and a total ***king moron. He is more likely to be sitting out due to his own drama then playing half the season. There is a reason teams won’t touch him. Beyond that, the Lakers offered a lot more than we did and still didn’t get him. They offered 2 unprotected firsts along with WB. Even if Dlo is 50% better than WB, those 2 picks are nice for the Nets. I don’t see this happening. Especially with TC’s pre season comments about only bringing in high character guys. Kyrie doesn’t fit that mold.

[BlacJacMac]

There's rumors that Wolves are "open to trading for Kyrie" according to Windhorst.

I keep seeing it on twitter but can't actually find the quote, I just see other people tweeting about it

I’m sure KAT would be thrilled having the league leading anti-vaxxer on our team.

(Yeah, I know about Gobert’s history, but that was before anyone knew how serious it was and he’s been vaccinated since).

[winforlose]

There's rumors that Wolves are "open to trading for Kyrie" according to Windhorst.

I keep seeing it on twitter but can't actually find the quote, I just see other people tweeting about it

I’m sure KAT would be thrilled having the league leading anti-vaxxer on our team.

(Yeah, I know about Gobert’s history, but that was before anyone knew how serious it was and he’s been vaccinated since).

Rudy is vaccinated as far as I know. KAT had two nasty bouts of it. He wouldn’t want to be near anyone more likely to contract it and spread it.

Kyrie would be like a slow poison in the ear of Ant. Rubio and Bev both influenced him, just wait till Kyrie does .

[BlacJacMac]

There's rumors that Wolves are "open to trading for Kyrie" according to Windhorst.

I keep seeing it on twitter but can't actually find the quote, I just see other people tweeting about it

I’m sure KAT would be thrilled having the league leading anti-vaxxer on our team.

(Yeah, I know about Gobert’s history, but that was before anyone knew how serious it was and he’s been vaccinated since).

Rudy is vaccinated as far as I know. KAT had two nasty bouts of it. He wouldn’t want to be near anyone more likely to contract it and spread it.

Kyrie would be like a slow poison in the ear of Ant. Rubio and Bev both influenced him, just wait till Kyrie does .

Right. That’s why I said Gobert was vaccinated so it’s a different story. He was uninformed before. Kyrie is just an idiot. .

And I wasn’t even talking about KAT’s own Covid, but how many family members he lost to it.

[winforlose]

I’m sure KAT would be thrilled having the league leading anti-vaxxer on our team.

(Yeah, I know about Gobert’s history, but that was before anyone knew how serious it was and he’s been vaccinated since).

Rudy is vaccinated as far as I know. KAT had two nasty bouts of it. He wouldn’t want to be near anyone more likely to contract it and spread it.

Kyrie would be like a slow poison in the ear of Ant. Rubio and Bev both influenced him, just wait till Kyrie does .

Right. That’s why I said Gobert was vaccinated so it’s a different story. He was uninformed before. Kyrie is just an idiot. .

And I wasn’t even talking about KAT’s own Covid, but how many family members he lost to it.

I wasn’t disagreeing. I was agreeing and driving the point home.

[younggunsmn]

Our big mistake of the offseason was not trading D-Lo and upgrading the PG position, although the Gobert trade looks like a franchise crippling mistake in the small sample size we have so far. It would be so nice to have someone like Malcolm Brogdon taking his minutes right now.

Russell is the worst starter if not the worst player in the league this year.
It's not just an "off year" or slow start, this is who he is as a player.
If he is not having that hot shooting game that comes less and less frequently, his game is nothing but minuses.
Bottom-tier athleticism, lazy, careless, soft, and useless on the defensive end of the floor.
I mean look at how Nowell and Naz have put in the work to transform their bodies and how they have improved their quickness and agility, and then look at D-Slow who moves like he's 45.

I can't believe anyone would argue turning down Chris Paul for Russell straight up, its lunacy, CP3 single handedly transformed the Suns from laughingstock to conference champion.
If you don't understand his value, its useless even discussing it.

We need to move Russell and find a serviceable starting PG. That's going to mean 2 things:
1. Any team trading for Russell is throwing in the towel on this season (Charlotte or Washington eventually?)
2. We are going to get a negative contract back as the only interest in Russell is as an expiring contract.

Simmons is shaking the rust off after missing a whole season and is playing with 2 of the most ball-dominant guys in the league.
Is his value diminished? certainly. But the Nets would still get much better offers than Russell for SImmons or Kyrie.
If the nets offered either for Russell you take it in a heartbeat and trust Finch to work out the fit.

[Note30]

I know this is an overreaction but...
DLo and Edwards, Rivers for Damian Lillard and Josh Hart, Little?

Lillard is clutch and arguably the most undervalued point guard in the league. He's on a decline, but if we go for it all in the next two years maybe it will be worth it.

Yes we sacrifice Edwards but we are a on a little bit of a clock given how stars just ask out every five minutes.

Lillard / Nowell
Hart / Little
McDaniels / Prince
Towns/KA
Gobert/Reid

[younggunsmn]

Evan Fournier just got benched for Quentin Grimes in NYK.

How about Russell and Forbes for Rose and Fournier?
Fournier is under contract for 19 mil next year, team option in 24.
Rose has a 15.5 team option next year.

Who says no or do we ask for more incentive for the extra money on next years cap?

Fournier is a career 38% 3pt shooter and Rose shot 40% from deep last year.

[younggunsmn]

If you want to double down on giving up 5 1sts and a swap for a 30 year old Gobert, giving up your budding 21 year old superstar for a 32 year old Lillard gives us a great head start on those 2028/2030 lottery odds.

[shangrila]

The main problem with DLo, disregarding his recent play, is that even the idealised version of him isn't what this team needs.

At his best he's a high usage half court cerebral mid-range PG. He's not a fast, run and gun type. Nor is he strictly a PnR or good PnP partner and his off ball skills are more secondary than a real strength. Combine that with his physical limitations defensively (again, disregarding effort which is also poor) and he doesn't bring much if anything that the team needs. I mean, the clutch buckets are nice but aren't worth the cost.

Unfortunately there's not a lot of good ways to improve. Trying to replace him with a lower usage, more defensive oriented PG will be difficult just due to salary. Not to mention if those kinds of guys are available, they might not be worth it. Lonzo Ball would be great, for example, but if he's actually available his knee issues are probably far worse than the Bulls are letting on.

For now I think we can't do much but wait. The longer the season carries on the more attractive his expiring contract is liable to be, not to mention it will give a better idea of who might be selling (does Charlotte give up and make Rozier available? Do the Jazz cool off and start selling guys like Clarkson or Conley?).

[theGreatRC]

Evan Fournier just got benched for Quentin Grimes in NYK.

How about Russell and Forbes for Rose and Fournier?
Fournier is under contract for 19 mil next year, team option in 24.
Rose has a 15.5 team option next year.

Who says no or do we ask for more incentive for the extra money on next years cap?

Fournier is a career 38% 3pt shooter and Rose shot 40% from deep last year.

Very interesting..

[winforlose]

Was talking on trade board. I kinda like this idea.

Wolves out: Dlo, Forbes, maybe Naz (Naz is the variable,)
Wolves in: John Wall, Tereance Mann, and Markus Morris Sr.

Why for the Wolves. Wall is an interesting Dlo alternative, Mann can play PG, and Morris allows Anderson to switch to PG. If we trade 3 for 2 we dump Rivers or Knight to make the roster spots work. We save money on the trade, to the tune of 8.4 million. All 3 are under contract next year and a Morris is there for 2 more after. Even if we move Naz we can use Garza as a fill in. If we don’t (I probably wouldn’t include him unless we tweak the package a bit,) then we gain depth by giving up Dlo’s high end potential.

Downside. I know everyone hates Dlo. But he has been good at times this year, and was much better last year. He is truly underrated overall. That said, I think a change would be good for both parties.

Forgot to add:

Wall, JMAC, Anderson, Mann
Ant, Nowell, Mann
MCD, Prince, Anderson, Minott
KAT, Anderson, Morris, Knight
Gobert, (maybe Naz,) Anderson, Garza, Knight

[minimus]

My bold and naive scenario would be if we get one of hometown kids such as Tre or Tyus Jones, McKinley Wright, he makes leap and we promote him as starting PG for 20-25mpg, 10ppg, 7apg, with good defense, consistent ball movement

[Note30]

If you want to double down on giving up 5 1sts and a swap for a 30 year old Gobert, giving up your budding 21 year old superstar for a 32 year old Lillard gives us a great head start on those 2028/2030 lottery odds.

Its unfortunate but I don't have faith in Ant to carry us. He's a kid.

Karl's not reliable either, nor is Gobert a playmaker or shot creator.

We have two great bigs and amazing surrounding pieces, but no main star that can pick up the slack.

Lillard is consistent, clutch, and one of the best point guards over the last decade. He might only be able to give us 3 more years at full strength, just like Gobert.

I hated the Gobert trade, unfortunately it's done, and the timelines are all ****. If you want to win a chip you have to spend the only equitable piece you have left now.