Road to a Championship start here, 2022 Draft.

[Whole Truth]

Lakers don't ride their starters heavy against Denvers bench & NO's don't chocke hard short 2 starters, Lakers would be 0-8 with their 3 stars logging heavy mins early in the season.

Correct my if I'm wrong. LA had 2 days rest to barely eek out a home win against a NO's team missing it's best player & defener.

Race to the bottom..

Lakers
Detroit
Houtson

[Funcrusher]

I think with Zion its at the point where they need to start finding better situations to get him the ball. Lots of Iso's and low post stuff for him. It seems like an awful lot of force feed Zion the ball no matter where he is at and just let him try and do something. Have they ran any PnR with Zion as the ball handler? That became a good chunk of his offense the 2nd half of his 2nd season and he was really good at it.

Edit: Just checked and he ran the PnR as the ball handler about 12% of his plays 2 years ago and was in the 79th percentile. So far hasnt ran it enough to even register on NBA.com stats. Also he posted up 15% of the time 2 years ago, that is at 30% right now. I feel like they can get him in better spots than what they're currently doing.

The concern is not so much the offense, he had a surprising 27 5 7. The concern is the defensive end.. I assume why Jonas is sitting late in games in favor of getting Zion on court with CJ. Those 3, are huge defensive liabilities playing together. Especially without Herb erasing mistakes as good as Naji has been.

Zion was a team high -13 followed by Jonas -10 followed by Naji -10, who played with him.

CJ was -2 because he played with Nance & the bench

CJ & bench + 10, CJ & Zuon -8

As we've been saying for this team & Zion to work defensively, CJ (& possibly Jonas) needs to be playing with Nance off the bench to compensate Zion's defense. Herb needs atleast one other defensive compliment with the Starters other than potentially BI. NO's defense made the Lakers offense look somewhat competent along with their growing confidence..

Single game +/- means very little contextually. Zion's defense was bad but not to the point of being a complete anchor even when paired with Jonas and/or CJ (who is by far the worst of the bunch on that end).

IMO he isn't any worse than Jonas on that end, even if he's not nearly as savy or valuable in what he brings. And obviously that isn't a high bar, because Jonas has serious limitations defensively to the point that, in the playoffs, he will get played off the floor against most good teams, regardless of the personel around him (honestly he'd probably have to approach Jokic-level offensive lift to not be relegated to matchup dependent minutes in the playoffs).

But yeah, i dont think Zion's defense is abonimable or something (i mean, historically, Pels have been better defensively with Zion on the floor vs off, and so far this year we're middle of the pack in defensive rating even with the limitations of some our key pieces and early roster instability already), its a negative for sure and it definitely puts a cap on the ceiling of our team, but im not at that level of concern with where he's at.

And to that point, eventually we will probably have to bank on Zion being at least passable on that end if we're ever going to be serious as a contender, that's my thing and all i really care about with him. i mean, i think we can probably all agree we're not winning a chip this year, im looking at this season purely from a developmental lens, not expecting or evaluating much beyond that.

[Whole Truth]

I think with Zion its at the point where they need to start finding better situations to get him the ball. Lots of Iso's and low post stuff for him. It seems like an awful lot of force feed Zion the ball no matter where he is at and just let him try and do something. Have they ran any PnR with Zion as the ball handler? That became a good chunk of his offense the 2nd half of his 2nd season and he was really good at it.

Edit: Just checked and he ran the PnR as the ball handler about 12% of his plays 2 years ago and was in the 79th percentile. So far hasnt ran it enough to even register on NBA.com stats. Also he posted up 15% of the time 2 years ago, that is at 30% right now. I feel like they can get him in better spots than what they're currently doing.

The concern is not so much the offense, he had a surprising 27 5 7. The concern is the defensive end.. I assume why Jonas is sitting late in games in favor of getting Zion on court with CJ. Those 3, are huge defensive liabilities playing together. Especially without Herb erasing mistakes as good as Naji has been.

Zion was a team high -13 followed by Jonas -10 followed by Naji -10, who played with him.

CJ was -2 because he played with Nance & the bench

CJ & bench + 10, CJ & Zuon -8

As we've been saying for this team & Zion to work defensively, CJ (& possibly Jonas) needs to be playing with Nance off the bench to compensate Zion's defense. Herb needs atleast one other defensive compliment with the Starters other than potentially BI. NO's defense made the Lakers offense look somewhat competent along with their growing confidence..

Single game +/- means very little contextually. Zion's defense was bad but not to the point of being a complete anchor even when paired with Jonas and/or CJ (who is by far the worst of the bunch on that end).

IMO he isn't any worse than Jonas on that end, even if he's not nearly as savy or valuable in what he brings. And obviously that isn't a high bar, because Jonas has serious limitations defensively to the point that, in the playoffs, he will get played off the floor against most good teams, regardless of the personel around him (honestly he'd probably have to approach Jokic-level offensive lift to not be relegated to matchup dependent minutes in the playoffs).

But yeah, i dont think Zion's defense is abonimable or something (i mean, historically, Pels have been better defensively with Zion on the floor vs off, and so far this year we're middle of the pack in defensive rating even with the limitations of some our key pieces and early roster instability already), its a negative for sure and it definitely puts a cap on the ceiling of our team, but im not at that level of concern with where he's at.

And to that point, eventually we will probably have to bank on Zion being at least passable on that end if we're ever going to be serious as a contender, that's my thing and all i really care about with him. i mean, i think we can probably all agree we're not winning a chip this year, im looking at this season purely from a developmental lens, not expecting or evaluating much beyond that.

Jonas was played off court by 3 teams all of which led the league in 3pt shooting with some of the best playmaking creation in Lebron, Conley & Paul. Take a look at his PO career & numbers u will see he's the reason Raptors won most of their matchups with the exception being they couldn't hurddle the Cavs/Lebron as far as the ECF's. No other team in the East effectively played him off the court in 5-6 years.

When Memphis met Jazz first round as a young team. Jonas was +15 in their only win because Brooks was able to contain Conley. When DM returned to court from injury in game 2, Books had his assignment & Jenkins had to hide Ja in the post for 4 straight losses. A young inexperienced team trying to reintegrate 3J vs the best 3pt shooting team in the league.

Everytime Jonas was played off court, his guards were Derozan, Ja & CJ some of the worse perimeter defenders in the league, more less his own team. Both Derozan & CJ putting up inefficient offense in combination with their poor D.

Take the NO's, Clippers regular season matchup from last yr as a prime example... Jonas dominated them for 3 games when paired with Herb & Hart.. but was played off the court by the same team post trade with CJ. Poor efficiency, little involvement & no gritty defense, the difference between CJ & Hart from Jonas being playable vs the Clippers apposed to not.

The body only goes as far as the mind allows. My goals & expectations are always lofty. When they're not met acceptance drive & growth takes the place of disappointment.

Mark this post for when Pels reach the finals & Jonas plays a key role in it

[Whole Truth]

The definition of insanity. Doing the same thing over & expecting different results.

3x now a team has scored directly over CJ to win in OT. Nate going offense/defense with Hawks star Young late was hard to watch.. Luka doesn't brick an open look.. Pels would be 0-4 in late game management.

This teams game & shot clock management needs some serius attention. Ingram first Q should have held for last possession. Instead early movement & a TO had Hawks take the Q by 1 in a game that went to OT.

Hawks started the game on fire because NO's refuse to adjust the defensive combination of the starters. Sloppy play inevitably leads to Jonas being the defacto bench option to compensate poor play & execution. Not even Nance can clean up Zion turning the ball over 7 times & giving up on defense 4-5x for 16 total TO's for the game with Ingram having an off night shooting 7-23, including a couple missed looks to win the game. It's one thing to stagger rotations but constant change disrupts rythym.

NO's supposedly have a good shooting coach but left another 8 points on the line collectively.

I had no issue with Green having Graham take the last shot. He's hit a lot of crazy buzzer beaters in his short time with NO's. Foster doesn't blow the call, he's on the line for 3 not that the FT's are a guarantee for this team. lol

Chia pet, had 15FT's by himself, lol. Hawk broadcast crew 3x admitted they got a favorable call at critical points in the game, "we got a break there"... Any surprise Foster got the Graham call wrong with no review ?.

It's not all bad. This team continues to be in games they're not playing well in because they have the talent.. I'm just hoping the necessary adjustments get made sooner, rather than later. The starting unit has just way to many defensive weak links to be effective. Herb can only do so much as he's now constantly finding himself in foul trouble trying to compensate. I don't care if Green want to close games with CJ ... Start the game with CJ on the bench unless u want to make Nance the starting 5 over the course of the season.

[Whole Truth]

I can criticize, I can compliment. CJ had his best shooting game of the season going 12-23 for 29pts to help carry the team offensively in an off night for Ingram. 10 rebs is impressive for a small guard but ZERO assists for a lead gaurd is not good. One of the main duties of a lead guard is to get his team going/involved.

Ingram 7-23 for 16 pts

Zion 29pts on 11-20, 7 TO's

Jonas 5-12, 13 & 17 in 23 mins. Can't play him the rest of the game because ZIon & CJ can't defend in what was an inefficient night with shots missed & TO's.

Hawks defense is not that good. There's a rythym & cohesion lacking RN. Another slow start, they need to adjust the starters.

[Whole Truth]

Last but not least. NO's have been moving away from ball movement to more Iso's. No bueno

[Duke4life831]

Hard to judge much off of that last game. 2nd night of a back 2 back and it looked like it. BI was just off all game and against a team that really isnt a good match up for them. Im actually shocked that game went to OT.

A few things that I am curious about seeing over the next few weeks.

1. Jonas. They seem to be struggling to find him minutes/touches/shots. I almost get the feeling that Willie is just itching to get Nance into the game. To be fair I dont really blame him, Nance has been fantastic so far this year. And ya seems hard to be finding minutes for Jonas when youre giving big minutes to CJ and Zion, defensively those 3 just cant work. Even if the stats dont show it, you can just see how many holes those 3 create on that end and how easily teams are trying to take advantage of them (even if they arent making those shots yet on a consistent basis).

So maybe its time to think that ya Jonas with this roster just doesnt fit. Maybe look to use him and some assets to get Myles Turner. Turner is essentially just a taller Nance with more shooting potential. He would fit much better with what this team wants from their big.

2. Zion. Zion's Time Per Possession while the main starting lineup is all in tact is hovering around 2. When he took that next step in his 2nd year that number was 4.3. So we are talking the time that he has the ball in his hands is half of what it was 2 years ago. Zion the 2nd half of that season he averaged 29/7/4 on 65 TS% (18 FGAs). So Zion is getting the same amount of FGAs, he's just getting the ball in a very different and less effective way). To put it into perspective, Zion used to run the PnR 14% of his possessions, this year only 4 players on the team average at least 1 PnR possession per game. Its CJ, BI, Jose, and.... Naji.

With the main starting lineup together, the Time Per Possession is CJ at 6, BI at 4, Jose at 3, and Zion at 2. Im as big of a Jose fan as youll see, but there is no way he should have the ball in his hands in a game more than Zion. And again this isnt some hypothetical on if Zion can succeed with more of an on ball role. He showed what he can do (29/7/4).

FGAs in the 4 complete games the starting lineup has played together

BI: 73
Zion: 72
CJ: 73

I know its hard to complain about the offense when its 8th in the league at the moment. And I get how this can come off as nitpicking. I just feel like a lot of offense is being left on the table right now. CJ is essentially the #1 option for this team (when looking at Time Per Possession and FGAs). They're doing their best to try and do an equal trio. And again by doing this, I think we are sacrificing a big chunk of what Zion can do. Id think they would be better off with BI and Zion being the clear 1A/1B option while both having a Time Per Possession in the 4.5-5 area.

[Whole Truth]

Hard to judge much off of that last game. 2nd night of a back 2 back and it looked like it. BI was just off all game and against a team that really isnt a good match up for them. Im actually shocked that game went to OT.

A few things that I am curious about seeing over the next few weeks.

1. Jonas. They seem to be struggling to find him minutes/touches/shots. I almost get the feeling that Willie is just itching to get Nance into the game. To be fair I dont really blame him, Nance has been fantastic so far this year. And ya seems hard to be finding minutes for Jonas when youre giving big minutes to CJ and Zion, defensively those 3 just cant work. Even if the stats dont show it, you can just see how many holes those 3 create on that end and how easily teams are trying to take advantage of them (even if they arent making those shots yet on a consistent basis).

So maybe its time to think that ya Jonas with this roster just doesnt fit. Maybe look to use him and some assets to get Myles Turner. Turner is essentially just a taller Nance with more shooting potential. He would fit much better with what this team wants from their big.

2. Zion. Zion's Time Per Possession while the main starting lineup is all in tact is hovering around 2. When he took that next step in his 2nd year that number was 4.3. So we are talking the time that he has the ball in his hands is half of what it was 2 years ago. Zion the 2nd half of that season he averaged 29/7/4 on 65 TS% (18 FGAs). So Zion is getting the same amount of FGAs, he's just getting the ball in a very different and less effective way). To put it into perspective, Zion used to run the PnR 14% of his possessions, this year only 4 players on the team average at least 1 PnR possession per game. Its CJ, BI, Jose, and.... Naji.

With the main starting lineup together, the Time Per Possession is CJ at 6, BI at 4, Jose at 3, and Zion at 2. Im as big of a Jose fan as youll see, but there is no way he should have the ball in his hands in a game more than Zion. And again this isnt some hypothetical on if Zion can succeed with more of an on ball role. He showed what he can do (29/7/4).

FGAs in the 4 complete games the starting lineup has played together

BI: 73
Zion: 72
CJ: 73

I know its hard to complain about the offense when its 8th in the league at the moment. And I get how this can come off as nitpicking. I just feel like a lot of offense is being left on the table right now. CJ is essentially the #1 option for this team (when looking at Time Per Possession and FGAs). They're doing their best to try and do an equal trio. And again by doing this, I think we are sacrificing a big chunk of what Zion can do. Id think they would be better off with BI and Zion being the clear 1A/1B option while both having a Time Per Possession in the 4.5-5 area.

ZIon & CJ's combined defense has made Jonas unplayable. So it's not hard to see why Green has a preference for Nance's defense. The fact that CJ has a 48% eFG on volume in combination with his poor defense. Subing Jonas out is beyond the fit on court. Jose has also effectively outplayed CJ too but they still go with CJ in all instances. Against the Hawks, CJ had his best shooting game 50% efficiency but he got no one else involved, zero assits with high usage, any surprise/coincidence Ingram struggled in the same game ?. No rythym, no flow. The offense gets predictable & stagnate when CJ hunts his shots. I've seen how this movie ends.

Knew the combination wouldn't work before they made the trade, I was against it though Nance was a great addition. They can bench/trade Jonas all they want, they're not going anywhere with CJ. Like I said, I've seen this song & dance before with Derozan ... When Pels "need" Nance to play more minutes than Jonas, they're 1-3. When Jonas plays more minutes than Nance, 4-1. That's not a knock on Nance's solid play. It's an indication of how poor the guard play was/is in losses apposed to wins. Nance cannot do what he's doing as a starter logging heavy mins. He'll be on the injury list bdfore the break.

You're right IMO about the offense. Pels are living off their talent & quality depth.

[Whole Truth]

Pacers a slow starting team was cooking against the starters defense. Things settled down until a 1 pt game turned into a quick 6pt Pacer lead when Green decided to sub both Zion & CJ back in with Jonas within a minute span before the close of the 2nd Q. NO's lucky to be going into the half down only 3.

[Duke4life831]

Zion and CJ just picked apart to end the game. Couldnt get a stop because those two just got abused on that end.

[Whole Truth]

Zion and CJ just picked apart to end the game. Couldnt get a stop because those two just got abused on that end.

You sure it's not because Jonas, lol. It's beyond frustrating.

I'm at a loss for words. If not for the late 3 to end the game. CJ would have been a game/team high -17 instead of -14 in a 9 pt loss. It's a good thing Jonas wasn't on the court in the 4th to blame. Green obviously needed CJ's 3-11 shooting for 9 pts so his defense can get picked apart.

Pels are trending in the wrong direction.

[Duke4life831]

Zion and CJ just picked apart to end the game. Couldnt get a stop because those two just got abused on that end.

You sure it's not because Jonas, lol. It's beyond frustrating.

I'm at a loss for words. If not for the late 3 to end the game. CJ would have been a game/team high -17 instead of -14 in a 9 pt loss. It's a good thing Jonas wasn't on the court in the 4th to blame. Green obviously needed CJ's 3-11 shooting for 9 pts so his defense can get picked apart.

Pels are trending in the wrong direction.

The +/- for the starters the last 3 games definitely dont look pretty. Again I think there is just too much law of diminishing returns with this starting group. It is really hard to run an offense that is based around a trio of scorers, unless one of them is an all time great off ball scorer (like a Klay or Ray Allen). There just isnt enough shots to go around when youre trying to feed 3 high volume scorers.

And I keep bringing this up because its going to lead to a lot more inconsistent games from these guys because their touches and shots attempts will be super random and not consistent. And the defensive aspect of it all. Give me 2 elite offensive players with 3 really good defenders around them, over 2 elite offensive players, 1 score first guard who doesnt defend, and an offensive minded big. The amount of offense youre going to get is going to be around the same, but youre going to have a much more well rounded unit.

The thing I really dont get is how tied together Willie has Zion with CJ. It seems like 90% of the time Zion is on the court, CJ is out there with him. Zion should be tied with Nance.

Hell at this point Im all for a

Jose
BI
Herb
Zion
Nance

Starting lineup. Stagger CJ's and Zion's minutes. Stop with the CJ/Graham backcourt. Teams have adjusted, theyre constantly going after one of Zion or CJ the entire time. You have to split them up.

[Funcrusher]

Zion and CJ just picked apart to end the game. Couldnt get a stop because those two just got abused on that end.

They suck, but again, tired of this narrative that those two guys are anchors. The pacers lit us up from behind the line, and it was a team wide effort of not contesting well and guarding the 3 with urgency. In fact imo even beyond Zion and CJ our ceiling defensively is overrated. BI is average, Jonas is meh and not useful in the playoffs, Herb is good if a little overrated and the rest of the team isnt overwhelmingly talented on that end. Again, this is not a championship team, and we should evaluate this team with that in mind, this is a growth year, nothing less, nothing more

[Funcrusher]

Zion and CJ just picked apart to end the game. Couldnt get a stop because those two just got abused on that end.

You sure it's not because Jonas, lol. It's beyond frustrating.

I'm at a loss for words. If not for the late 3 to end the game. CJ would have been a game/team high -17 instead of -14 in a 9 pt loss. It's a good thing Jonas wasn't on the court in the 4th to blame. Green obviously needed CJ's 3-11 shooting for 9 pts so his defense can get picked apart.

Pels are trending in the wrong direction.

if the jonas bit is in reference to me, i don't understand, because i never put the burden of blame for this team defensively on Jonas, like at all. but he's limited defensively, just like CJ and Zion. it is what it is

[Duke4life831]

Zion and CJ just picked apart to end the game. Couldnt get a stop because those two just got abused on that end.

They suck, but again, tired of this narrative that those two guys are anchors. The pacers lit us up from behind the line, and it was a team wide effort of not contesting well and guarding the 3 with urgency. In fact imo even beyond Zion and CJ our ceiling defensively is overrated. BI is average, Jonas is meh and not useful in the playoffs, Herb is good if a little overrated and the rest of the team isnt overwhelmingly talented on that end. Again, this is not a championship team, and we should evaluate this team with that in mind, this is a growth year, nothing less, nothing more

Oh dont get me wrong, I agree that I dont think this team has elite defensive potential. That is actually one of the reasons I harp so much on separating CJ and Zion and the whole CJ/Graham backcourt thing needs to come to an end. This team isnt good enough defensively to be able to cover for those guys.

My whole thing is BI/Zion provide enough offense for the starting lineup. You get to law of diminishing returns when you add a guy like CJ, very very rarely are all 3 guys cooking at the same time. So take CJ out of the starting lineup and bring in a defensive guy. Whether that is Jose's energy or Dyson's size and potential (his team defense has a lot of work and that is the main reason I dont push for that). Again agreed 100% that this isnt a stacked defensive team, just think there are better rotations out there with this roster that doesnt shine a spotlight on the defensive issue as much as some of these lineups that we are seeing. I just feel like heavy minutes with CJ/Zion or the CJ/Graham backcourt is just making the issue worse.

[Funcrusher]

Zion and CJ just picked apart to end the game. Couldnt get a stop because those two just got abused on that end.

They suck, but again, tired of this narrative that those two guys are anchors. The pacers lit us up from behind the line, and it was a team wide effort of not contesting well and guarding the 3 with urgency. In fact imo even beyond Zion and CJ our ceiling defensively is overrated. BI is average, Jonas is meh and not useful in the playoffs, Herb is good if a little overrated and the rest of the team isnt overwhelmingly talented on that end. Again, this is not a championship team, and we should evaluate this team with that in mind, this is a growth year, nothing less, nothing more

Oh dont get me wrong, I agree that I dont think this team has elite defensive potential. That is actually one of the reasons I harp so much on separating CJ and Zion and the whole CJ/Graham backcourt thing needs to come to an end. This team isnt good enough defensively to be able to cover for those guys.

My whole thing is BI/Zion provide enough offense for the starting lineup. You get to law of diminishing returns when you add a guy like CJ, very very rarely are all 3 guys cooking at the same time. So take CJ out of the starting lineup and bring in a defensive guy. Whether that is Jose's energy or Dyson's size and potential (his team defense has a lot of work and that is the main reason I dont push for that). Again agreed 100% that this isnt a stacked defensive team, just think there are better rotations out there with this roster that doesnt shine a spotlight on the defensive issue as much as some of these lineups that we are seeing. I just feel like heavy minutes with CJ/Zion or the CJ/Graham backcourt is just making the issue worse.

oh believe me duke, im so there on wanting CJ relegated to a bench role and dyson or Jose in his place.

Willie's not gonna do that though, and:

a) i think its time people start having discussions about Willie's coaching, because for various reasons its been a problem and its not like hes a rookie anymore

b) this all just makes me lament Griff ever feeling the need to go after CJ, hes never fit this team well, on both ends, and when i think about the fact that we could of had Darius Garland effectively in CJ's place (and... whatever Jaxson Hayes is giving you), it makes my heart hurt deeply lmao

[Duke4life831]

They suck, but again, tired of this narrative that those two guys are anchors. The pacers lit us up from behind the line, and it was a team wide effort of not contesting well and guarding the 3 with urgency. In fact imo even beyond Zion and CJ our ceiling defensively is overrated. BI is average, Jonas is meh and not useful in the playoffs, Herb is good if a little overrated and the rest of the team isnt overwhelmingly talented on that end. Again, this is not a championship team, and we should evaluate this team with that in mind, this is a growth year, nothing less, nothing more

Oh dont get me wrong, I agree that I dont think this team has elite defensive potential. That is actually one of the reasons I harp so much on separating CJ and Zion and the whole CJ/Graham backcourt thing needs to come to an end. This team isnt good enough defensively to be able to cover for those guys.

My whole thing is BI/Zion provide enough offense for the starting lineup. You get to law of diminishing returns when you add a guy like CJ, very very rarely are all 3 guys cooking at the same time. So take CJ out of the starting lineup and bring in a defensive guy. Whether that is Jose's energy or Dyson's size and potential (his team defense has a lot of work and that is the main reason I dont push for that). Again agreed 100% that this isnt a stacked defensive team, just think there are better rotations out there with this roster that doesnt shine a spotlight on the defensive issue as much as some of these lineups that we are seeing. I just feel like heavy minutes with CJ/Zion or the CJ/Graham backcourt is just making the issue worse.

oh believe me duke, im so there on wanting CJ relegated to a bench role and dyson or Jose in his place.

Willie's not gonna do that though, and:

a) i think its time people start having discussions about Willie's coaching, because for various reasons its been a problem and its not like hes a rookie anymore

b) this all just makes me lament Griff ever feeling the need to go after CJ, hes never fit this team well, on both ends, and when i think about the fact that we could of had Darius Garland effectively in CJ's place (and... whatever Jaxson Hayes is giving you), it makes my heart hurt deeply lmao

Ya Im still giving him time to adjust with this roster (took him 13 games to adjust and give up with the Graham/NAW starting backcourt last year). But ya I think he has been really bad to start this year. The rotations have been head scratching to say the least, some of the late game management has been laughable.

Then when it comes to Zion, Ive mentioned it multiple times on here but the dude exploded the 2nd half of his 2nd season and he did that with getting the ball in his hands, running the PnR and so on. This year its been the opposite, he's posting up 2x the rate he did 2 years ago, Naji has run the PnR more than Zion has. Now granted I did think Zion's offensive role improved this game, but with that meant CJ was completely taken out of his element and was a complete waste of 30+ minutes tonight. And again that goes back to me having issues with how Willie has coached.

And to be clear, I know Im always talking about moving CJ to the bench, but ya I agree. I dont see Willie doing that. Which is crazy to me because its the obvious answer to a lot of the issues with this team. Let CJ come off the bench and play 25 minutes. Give him the 6th man microwave scorer role. His offense isnt needed next to BI and Zion, give those guys defensive high energy role players.

And ya you know how I feel about Griff haha. Ya Murphy and Herb were good draft picks, Jose was a great undrafted nab. I still havent forgot all the other mistakes he has made. Giving a 1st to Adams then giving him an extension before ever playing a minute next to Zion. Then doing the same with Jonas and I was always iffy on if the Zion/Jonas combo would work and it looks like the coaching staff is already giving up on playing them big minutes together. Hell this coaching staff seems like theyre done playing Jonas big minutes period. It still blows my mind that it is year 4 with Zion and Griffin has yet to bring in a 5 that can spread the floor.

[Funcrusher]

Ya Im still giving him time to adjust with this roster (took him 13 games to adjust and give up with the Graham/NAW starting backcourt last year). But ya I think he has been really bad to start this year. The rotations have been head scratching to say the least, some of the late game management has been laughable.

Then when it comes to Zion, Ive mentioned it multiple times on here but the dude exploded the 2nd half of his 2nd season and he did that with getting the ball in his hands, running the PnR and so on. This year its been the opposite, he's posting up 2x the rate he did 2 years ago, Naji has run the PnR more than Zion has. Now granted I did think Zion's offensive role improved this game, but with that meant CJ was completely taken out of his element and was a complete waste of 30+ minutes tonight. And again that goes back to me having issues with how Willie has coached.

And to be clear, I know Im always talking about moving CJ to the bench, but ya I agree. I dont see Willie doing that. Which is crazy to me because its the obvious answer to a lot of the issues with this team. Let CJ come off the bench and play 25 minutes. Give him the 6th man microwave scorer role. His offense isnt needed next to BI and Zion, give those guys defensive high energy role players.

And ya you know how I feel about Griff haha. Ya Murphy and Herb were good draft picks, Jose was a great undrafted nab. I still havent forgot all the other mistakes he has made. Giving a 1st to Adams then giving him an extension before ever playing a minute next to Zion. Then doing the same with Jonas and I was always iffy on if the Zion/Jonas combo would work and it looks like the coaching staff is already giving up on playing them big minutes together. Hell this coaching staff seems like theyre done playing Jonas big minutes period. It still blows my mind that it is year 4 with Zion and Griffin has yet to bring in a 5 that can spread the floor.

It sucks because if the Zion era were holistically managed better by Griff, we could conceivably have been in a position to contend already. Instead we've blown through a treasure trove of assets already and largely not had much to show for them.

I am pretty high on Dyson though, I think eventually he can give you a lot of what Lonzo provides defensively but without the phobia for scoring in the paint and in general just a higher motor on that end.

So, uh, that and the lakers pick is what keeps me going these days, lol. Imagine this team with Dyson/BI/Zion/one of Wemby-Scoot-Amen, etc. and a mobile 5 defensively that can space the floor? Even Griff couldn't screw that up

[Duke4life831]

Ya Im still giving him time to adjust with this roster (took him 13 games to adjust and give up with the Graham/NAW starting backcourt last year). But ya I think he has been really bad to start this year. The rotations have been head scratching to say the least, some of the late game management has been laughable.

Then when it comes to Zion, Ive mentioned it multiple times on here but the dude exploded the 2nd half of his 2nd season and he did that with getting the ball in his hands, running the PnR and so on. This year its been the opposite, he's posting up 2x the rate he did 2 years ago, Naji has run the PnR more than Zion has. Now granted I did think Zion's offensive role improved this game, but with that meant CJ was completely taken out of his element and was a complete waste of 30+ minutes tonight. And again that goes back to me having issues with how Willie has coached.

And to be clear, I know Im always talking about moving CJ to the bench, but ya I agree. I dont see Willie doing that. Which is crazy to me because its the obvious answer to a lot of the issues with this team. Let CJ come off the bench and play 25 minutes. Give him the 6th man microwave scorer role. His offense isnt needed next to BI and Zion, give those guys defensive high energy role players.

And ya you know how I feel about Griff haha. Ya Murphy and Herb were good draft picks, Jose was a great undrafted nab. I still havent forgot all the other mistakes he has made. Giving a 1st to Adams then giving him an extension before ever playing a minute next to Zion. Then doing the same with Jonas and I was always iffy on if the Zion/Jonas combo would work and it looks like the coaching staff is already giving up on playing them big minutes together. Hell this coaching staff seems like theyre done playing Jonas big minutes period. It still blows my mind that it is year 4 with Zion and Griffin has yet to bring in a 5 that can spread the floor.

It sucks because if the Zion era were holistically managed better by Griff, we could conceivably have been in a position to contend already. Instead we've blown through a treasure trove of assets already and largely not had much to show for them.

I am pretty high on Dyson though, I think eventually he can give you a lot of what Lonzo provides defensively but without the phobia for scoring in the paint and in general just a higher motor on that end.

So, uh, that and the lakers pick is what keeps me going these days, lol. Imagine this team with Dyson/BI/Zion/one of Wemby-Scoot-Amen, etc. and a mobile 5 defensively that can space the floor? Even Griff couldn't screw that up

Ya I mean thats the thing, Griff just got massively lucky. He was basically handed so many assets to go along with 2 young studs in BI and Zion that he got to make mistake after mistake and a broken clock is right twice thing, I mean no GM is going to swing and miss on every move haha.

The crazy thing was he was legit handed BI/Zion/Garland. Just his dumb decision to turn Garland into Hayes/NAW. I mean that move right there should get a GM fired haha.

[Whole Truth]

Zion and CJ just picked apart to end the game. Couldnt get a stop because those two just got abused on that end.

You sure it's not because Jonas, lol. It's beyond frustrating.

I'm at a loss for words. If not for the late 3 to end the game. CJ would have been a game/team high -17 instead of -14 in a 9 pt loss. It's a good thing Jonas wasn't on the court in the 4th to blame. Green obviously needed CJ's 3-11 shooting for 9 pts so his defense can get picked apart.

Pels are trending in the wrong direction.

if the jonas bit is in reference to me, i don't understand, because i never put the burden of blame for this team defensively on Jonas, like at all. but he's limited defensively, just like CJ and Zion. it is what it is

It's not a reference to u. I'm a Raptors fan that went to Memphis & now Pels because of Jonas.

I've seen him take "full" blame for Derozan, Ja & now CJ's defense. NO fans are already trying to trade him off the team because he can't cover for both ZIon & CJ like Nance can.

I've seen this movie & excuse with Derozan. Raptors got both Bizz & Ibaka to replace Jonas & neither made the difference they hoped because the problem was always Derozan, just like the problem here, is CJ. Most of the Jonas unplayable narrative is from Derozan fans that blame the 22m role player for not getting over the Cavs PO hump while Derozan got outplayed by JR Smith on both ends.

Jonas played all of 22 mins was 14 / 7 / 2 on an efficient 9 shots.

CJ played 36 mins 9 / 5 / 7 on an inefficient 11 shots.

Whether Jonas was on court or not. Pacers were getting easy looks & makes from 3. With Jonas only playing half the game, what is the reason the other half was more of the same ? = CJ.

Zion needs better ball pressure than what CJ provides more than he needs a defensive rim runner. The sooner NO's can get Daniels into the starting rotation the better.