Game 10: Lakers at the Jazz

[Beethoven]

Keep Westbrook give him a MAX extension
and build around him
Trade everyone else

[danfantastk32]

Welp, can’t say I’m surprised after 10 games. I was in the minority when I advocated for a rebuild last off-season. I’m also on the record saying that Lebron extension will turn out to be a mistake. The list of mishaps and mistakes from this front office is quite long. This team will not get better until there are changes at the top. Always thought the Vogel firing was misguided at best.

Pat on the back aside, you do understand there is nuance, right? Life isn't black and white.

I'd love to blow this team up, and get 100% new players. But who are you trading AD and Lebron to....and exactly how much do you think your gonna get for them? And of course salaries have to match....so are you taking a big heap of crap in return? Rather than taking a pile of 2-year and 3-year bogus contracts...why don't you just keep the bogus contracts you have? Cause I got news for you: you might get a few picks...but it ain't gonna be much.

You're right...the front office has done a total hack-job on our team the last couple years. But I also think we all knew the back couple years of Lebron were gonna come at a cost. And while there were certainly warning signs with AD....he was beyond good when rolling, and no matter how much shade people throw......a legitimate title was won with that pair. So yeah....things have gone to total sh** the last couple seasons....but if you could turn the clock back just 15-16 months, and nix just one horrible mistake....things could be quite different.

I think the list of NBA minds who would fault the Lakers for shoving those chips in for AD is awfully small. And a title certainly validates alot of that risk....even if AD has turned out to be a considerably less than expected/hoped.

This isn't just directed at you, it's for the whole room: Just cause someone advocates for keeping the "stars" we have...doesn't mean they are happy with whats out there. You gotta have a realistic, and better alternative. An extra 1st rounder, and several 2nd rounders doesn't really float my boat. If I thought we'd get a significant haul.....well then of course. But the sad truth is, the Lakers are in a worse position than that. Your not gonna get a ton for our guys, and a few extra picks really only serves to negate the picks we have missing. Meanwhile....like I said....about $80mil in "salary" has to come back our way. You think it'll be anything special?

Hell, we gotta THROW IN picks to offload Westbrook! I'd dump Westbrook for a ZERO....would be totally fine with me. But I don't wanna see us give up first-rounders. Again....that doesn't mean I want Westbrick on the team. Life's rarely that simple.

As crappy as it is to say.....I think our best bet will be to ride it out, and get out from hole we dug. If there is a trade out there where someone's willing to give us 2 first rounders, or whatever, for AD...then great. But I'm not holding my breath.

[danfantastk32]

In fact, I'd propose and even sadder scenario here, and say that we may want to try and take a couple bad contracts coming up for picks. Sorta do what the Pacers are trying to do with us. Meanwhile....ride Lebron and AD till the wheels totally fall off.

And in the meantime....trade no more picks. Only bring in picks. And cross our fingers, and hope that in 4-5 years when we have a decent litter of young talent again, we can find a star or two who wanna come lead.

That's prob my biggest critique of our FO: They were far to spendy with our youth, and future picks. We shoulda waited till the offseason with AD. Just the fact that we would have been willing to wait, would have given us a much better offer. But we wanted him, and we had to have him NOW. And everyone knew. So we 2x paid for it.

Same with Westbrook. The fact that we gave so much!! I mean jesus...never mind that he was (predictably) a horrible fit...even if he was good....did we have to give so much??? It's not like he was winning hearts and minds around the NBA the last few seasons leading up. I'm not done with Jeanie...like I know alot of people are.....but she really needs to start learning this. You can't just let teams name their price with us anymore. I feel like she has learned that a little this offseason. She's showed restraint, when we could have easily dug an even deeper hole. And despite Lebron throwing "hints"...we've stayed strong so far.

I mean, if Lebron and AD want out, and we could even get something semi-decent?? I'd be beyond stoked. But you gotta understand that as terrible as it is....Lebron sells jerseys, and puts butts in seats, and make people know the Lakers exist. So unless you can get MORE for him (and that includes all of that stuff) your better off riding him to to the bitter end.

[Ball so hard]

Welp, can’t say I’m surprised after 10 games. I was in the minority when I advocated for a rebuild last off-season. I’m also on the record saying that Lebron extension will turn out to be a mistake. The list of mishaps and mistakes from this front office is quite long. This team will not get better until there are changes at the top. Always thought the Vogel firing was misguided at best.

Pat on the back aside, you do understand there is nuance, right? Life isn't black and white.

I'd love to blow this team up, and get 100% new players. But who are you trading AD and Lebron to....and exactly how much do you think your gonna get for them? And of course salaries have to match....so are you taking a big heap of crap in return? Rather than taking a pile of 2-year and 3-year bogus contracts...why don't you just keep the bogus contracts you have? Cause I got news for you: you might get a few picks...but it ain't gonna be much.

You're right...the front office has done a total hack-job on our team the last couple years. But I also think we all knew the back couple years of Lebron were gonna come at a cost. And while there were certainly warning signs with AD....he was beyond good when rolling, and no matter how much shade people throw......a legitimate title was won with that pair. So yeah....things have gone to total sh** the last couple seasons....but if you could turn the clock back just 15-16 months, and nix just one horrible mistake....things could be quite different.

I think the list of NBA minds who would fault the Lakers for shoving those chips in for AD is awfully small. And a title certainly validates alot of that risk....even if AD has turned out to be a considerably less than expected/hoped.

This isn't just directed at you, it's for the whole room: Just cause someone advocates for keeping the "stars" we have...doesn't mean they are happy with whats out there. You gotta have a realistic, and better alternative. An extra 1st rounder, and several 2nd rounders doesn't really float my boat. If I thought we'd get a significant haul.....well then of course. But the sad truth is, the Lakers are in a worse position than that. Your not gonna get a ton for our guys, and a few extra picks really only serves to negate the picks we have missing. Meanwhile....like I said....about $80mil in "salary" has to come back our way. You think it'll be anything special?

Hell, we gotta THROW IN picks to offload Westbrook! I'd dump Westbrook for a ZERO....would be totally fine with me. But I don't wanna see us give up first-rounders. Again....that doesn't mean I want Westbrick on the team. Life's rarely that simple.

As crappy as it is to say.....I think our best bet will be to ride it out, and get out from hole we dug. If there is a trade out there where someone's willing to give us 2 first rounders, or whatever, for AD...then great. But I'm not holding my breath.

Your post doesn’t address much of anything in my post so I’m not sure why I was quoted. However, I do think you’re massively undervaluing what we could receive in return of trading Davis. I also wouldn’t worry about salary matching either. Teams in far worse cap situations have pulled off blockbusters. There’s plenty of room to get creative.

I thought it was brilliant what Ainge did several years ago when he traded away his aging star players when many thought it was too early. I’m a huge believer in this approach…better to trade a year early than a year too late. The ideal time to trade away both AD and Lebron was last off-season. Prior to this season it was debatable whether or not a core of Lebron + AD was good enough to win another championship. My position was they are not.

[danfantastk32]

Your post doesn’t address much of anything in my post so I’m not sure why I was quoted. However, I do think you’re massively undervaluing what we could receive in return of trading Davis.

I quoted you because of the "I told you so" nature of your orig post. I think pretty much everyone gets that Lebron is winding down, and AD can't stay healthy...do this is gonna be ugly. HOW YOU GO ABOUT IT, is up for debate. I don't think I'm undervaluing AD that much.

If we get a first rounder for AD....don't expect it to be top 10. And once again.....like $40mil in salary has to come back. What do you think that's gonna look like??

I thought it was brilliant what Ainge did several years ago when he traded away his aging star players when many thought it was too early. I’m a huge believer in this approach…better to trade a year early than a year too late..

Ok...that was like 9 years ago. And so far it's yet to amount to a title. I agree it was the right thing to do, but there is no way the Lakers would get that type of haul for AD and Lebron. If the Lakers can manage to keep AD healthy the entire year, I say "sell, sell, sell"....but until then, teams are not all that interested.

At any rate....my point in all of this is that I think everyone knew the Lakers were gonna go off the cliff. But had the Lakers made a really good trade, or done some good signings, instead of trading for brick-boy.....they would be legit contenders. Not only last season, but this season too. So I don't think the plug was ready to be pulled. Not until brick showed up. But by then it was too late. AD's value is at an all-time low. Probably unrecoverable. Your only possible piece that will get you something decent, is Lebron. But I don't think even that would be enough to make things much brighter. A couple mid-to-late first-rounders over the next 3-4 years. Ok...what are you gonna do with that? And up until this offseason, when things were too late, Lebron could opt out...so that further hurt his value. ANNNNDDDD......there's that salary. What glop are you willing to take back? Especially if it does come with mutliple first-rounders.

So yeah....the chickens are (have) coming to roost. I think everyone knew this would happen. But you wouldn't have got half the haul you think you would have for those 2 last year.

[Ball so hard]

Your post doesn’t address much of anything in my post so I’m not sure why I was quoted. However, I do think you’re massively undervaluing what we could receive in return of trading Davis.

I quoted you because of the "I told you so" nature of your orig post. I think pretty much everyone gets that Lebron is winding down, and AD can't stay healthy...do this is gonna be ugly. HOW YOU GO ABOUT IT, is up for debate. I don't think I'm undervaluing AD that much.

If we get a first rounder for AD....don't expect it to be top 10. And once again.....like $40mil in salary has to come back. What do you think that's gonna look like??

I thought it was brilliant what Ainge did several years ago when he traded away his aging star players when many thought it was too early. I’m a huge believer in this approach…better to trade a year early than a year too late..

Ok...that was like 9 years ago. And so far it's yet to amount to a title. I agree it was the right thing to do, but there is no way the Lakers would get that type of haul for AD and Lebron. If the Lakers can manage to keep AD healthy the entire year, I say "sell, sell, sell"....but until then, teams are not all that interested.

At any rate....my point in all of this is that I think everyone knew the Lakers were gonna go off the cliff. But had the Lakers made a really good trade, or done some good signings, instead of trading for brick-boy.....they would be legit contenders. Not only last season, but this season too. So I don't think the plug was ready to be pulled. Not until brick showed up. But by then it was too late. AD's value is at an all-time low. Probably unrecoverable. Your only possible piece that will get you something decent, is Lebron. But I don't think even that would be enough to make things much brighter. A couple mid-to-late first-rounders over the next 3-4 years. Ok...what are you gonna do with that? And up until this offseason, when things were too late, Lebron could opt out...so that further hurt his value. ANNNNDDDD......there's that salary. What glop are you willing to take back? Especially if it does come with mutliple first-rounders.

So yeah....the chickens are (have) coming to roost. I think everyone knew this would happen. But you wouldn't have got half the haul you think you would have for those 2 last year.

A year ago Harden at the age of 32 fetched an unprotected pick, a top 8 protected, Ben Simmons (recent number 1 pick), and Seth Curry. AD is only 29. All you need is one desperate team or a team with a disgruntled star looking to get to that next level. Not saying they’d make good trade partners… Hawks and Grizzlies come to mind. I’m not the biggest AD fan and even I do not think his value is that low.

Edit: like I said previously, I do not think salary matching would be too much of an issue… you could easily find someone to take on Russ for a small price at the deadline.

[danfantastk32]

A year ago Harden at the age of 32 fetched an unprotected pick, a top 8 protected, Ben Simmons (recent number 1 pick), and Seth Curry. AD is only 29. All you need is one desperate team or a team with a disgruntled star looking to get to that next level. Not saying they’d make good trade partners… Hawks and Grizzlies come to mind. I’m not the biggest AD fan and even I do not think his value is that low.

I hear you, but Harden could at least stay on the floor. And let's not forget what you were getting in Ben Simmons. There was an awful lot of risk coming back. Would I make that trade for AD?? Hell yeah. I just don't see anything like that for a guy who's been out this much over the last 3-4 years.

I'm just pointing out that a first round pick (huge if on turning into something....let's acknowledge that the Nets are getting 20th pick at best out of that deal) does little to change our trajectory in 4 years.

Is there logic in saying "screw it" and blowing it up now? Yeah...I can't argue it's a dumb idea. I think this goose is thoroughly cooked. But I don't think it was that way 18 months ago. We were one season out of a title, for Christ's sake. Had we made a GOOD move....a GOOD move....who knows what might have happened? But unfortunately, the Westbrick deal - coupled with AD going down YET AGAIN has really put the team in a hole.

Yeah.....Ainge might have read the tea-leaves....and blown it up. Ok, but it took him 8-9 years to get that new group to the finals. So It's certainly debatable as to whether or not that's the better idea. There was every reason to believe 18 months ago that AD and Lebron could make some noise with a slightly better cast (or a 3rd star) around them.