Dutchball97 wrote:70sFan wrote:Dutchball97 wrote:We're restarting the project with a pretty tough one imo. 02 and 03 Duncan and 84 and 86 Bird look like a pretty clear top 4 to me in some order. After that I'll have to take a closer look but looking at previous results I expect Duncan to take the advantage there.
My "off the top of my head" tentative list:
1. 2003 Tim Duncan
2. 1986 Larry Bird
3. 1984 Larry Bird
4. 2002 Tim Duncan
5. 2007 Tim Duncan
6. 1987 Larry Bird
7. 2001 Tim Duncan
8. 1999 Tim Duncan
9. 1985 Larry Bird
10. 1988 Larry Bird
11. 2005 Tim Duncan
12. 1983 Larry Bird
Could you explain your choice of 1983 over 2004?
It's still a work in progress. Duncan was probably slightly better in the regular season but Bird had a more valuable regular season due to Duncan's games missed imo. In the play-offs Duncan also looks a bit better but I'm not sure yet if it's enough to put him ahead of 83 Bird, I'll have to look into the individual play-off series for that.
I understand the concerns with missed games, although I think per game Duncan was significantly better - he was basically his 2003 self in the RS and the only tangible difference is that he had a down year on the FT line. I don't know if people realize it, but had Duncan shot FTs like he did in 2003, he would have finished with better scoring season than in 2003 (or even 2002). On top of that, his defensive impact was just ridiculous.
Now, I do have him quite low because he struggled in the playoffs against the Lakers. He didn't have much help, but I still think he could have done significantly better than that (like he did in 2002). The thing is that Bird was even worse in the playoffs (he also had more help) and I don't believe that 10 additional RS games is enough to overcome that.
Of course, I'm also open to the discussion.
I also might move 02 Duncan ahead of 84 and/or 86 Bird but I put it below those seasons due to it only being a second round exit compared to two title runs. I'm aware Duncan was just as good, if not better, in 02 as he was in 03 but I'll still have to weigh whether Bird's deeper runs are impressive enough to stay ahead.
I understand that, I don't agree with this conclusion (I don't see Bird ever doing more with 2002 Spurs level of cast than Duncan did), but I know that it's always problematic to compare seasons with different number of postseason games.
Lastly the placing of Duncan's 99 season is probably the most volatile placement on my list. It's a comparable season to 01 statistically and while the season was shortened but we shouldn't penalize Duncan for that when he didn't miss a game in either the regular season or the play-offs. On the other hand he was still a co-best player with Robinson and their post-season opposition wasn't that strong either.
I am a bit lower on 1999 vs some mid-2000s seasons, because after watching closely many Duncan games, I found out that his passing game wasn't developed yet and his defense (already great) didn't reach its peak either. He was a better scorer when he was younger than in the mid-2000s though, so it depends on what you value.
