Rui Hachimura 2.0

[doclinkin]

It's just funny how the goalpost keeps moving. One day it's one thing. The next day it's another thing. It's like whack-a-mole with these arguments. So let's break it down. When you draft a player and you develop him, he's supposed to match the identity of your organization. Second, Hachimura has years of chemistry with our team. Where does chemistry fit into your analysis of replacement players?

Most important is the fact that Rui commands the focus of the defense and double teams. This is the biggest flaw in your logic. You look at stats and say player x = player y. How many defenses double-team Eddie House Jr? How many defenses double-team Derrick Jones Jr? Those guys are self-checks who have no offensive skill. They cannot be compared to Hachimura. Rui right now is good enough to be the 6th man on a championship team. Hachimura's offensive success this season is actually very impressive. Especially given the fact that we are such a bad 3-point shooting team. So far this season the Wizards are 28th in the league in 3-point %. Yet Rui is just chugging along, efficiently scoring.

I'm going to tell you something you might not know. Most players in the league cannot score efficiently in 1-on-1 situations. They need the star on their team to set them up and then they can score. So what happens when the star that generates offense goes on the bench? The offense dies. You can look at stats and speak all you want to about how Hachimura is a replacement-level player. Yesterday's game is a testament to the fact that he is the prototypical 6th man scorer off the bench. No Beal, no Porzingis and Rui has his most efficient game of the season. How many replacement-level players can handle being the main focus of the defense for any stretch of the game?

When he is +20 in a win, then I'm not moving the goal posts. Those _are_ my goal posts.

[nate33]

It's just funny how the goalpost keeps moving. One day it's one thing. The next day it's another thing. It's like whack-a-mole with these arguments. So let's break it down. When you draft a player and you develop him, he's supposed to match the identity of your organization. Second, Hachimura has years of chemistry with our team. Where does chemistry fit into your analysis of replacement players?

Most important is the fact that Rui commands the focus of the defense and double teams. This is the biggest flaw in your logic. You look at stats and say player x = player y. How many defenses double-team Eddie House Jr? How many defenses double-team Derrick Jones Jr? Those guys are self-checks who have no offensive skill. They cannot be compared to Hachimura. Rui right now is good enough to be the 6th man on a championship team. Hachimura's offensive success this season is actually very impressive. Especially given the fact that we are such a bad 3-point shooting team. So far this season the Wizards are 28th in the league in 3-point %. Yet Rui is just chugging along, efficiently scoring.

I'm going to tell you something you might not know. Most players in the league cannot score efficiently in 1-on-1 situations. They need the star on their team to set them up and then they can score. So what happens when the star that generates offense goes on the bench? The offense dies. You can look at stats and speak all you want to about how Hachimura is a replacement-level player. Yesterday's game is a testament to the fact that he is the prototypical 6th man scorer off the bench. No Beal, no Porzingis and Rui has his most efficient game of the season. How many replacement-level players can handle being the main focus of the defense for any stretch of the game?

When he is +20 in a win, then I'm not moving the goal posts. Those _are_ my goal posts.

Yeah, if he can score 23 points in 26 minutes on a 71% TS% every night, then I'm all in. But it's completely disingenuous to imply that that is what he has consistently done when given the opportunity. His TS% on the season is .542, which is rather bad. I'd hardly characterize it as "chugging along, efficiently scoring". And he also gives you no playmaking. The notion that he consistently draws double teams is definitely false. I've very rarely seen a double team because most defenders can goad him into taking an off-balance long 2 at mediocre efficiency. Why double team that?

He had a nice game yesterday. That's great. But let's not act like that is the norm. If it does become the norm, I will happily re-evaluate my opinion of him.

[DCZards]

Take Derrick Jones Jr., for instance. He is a random journeyman forward who is always available in free agency and usually plays well enough to help out the depth of a decent team. He is just 1 year older than Rui. Chicago signed him as an unrestricted free agent this summer for $3.2M. Compare his production this season to Rui's: https://stathead.com/tiny/hUeVg

I guess you can consider Rui comparable to Derrick Jones...if you ignore the fact that Rui is a better rebounder, better FT shooter, better 3pt shooter, and all=around better offensive player.

[doclinkin]

It's just funny how the goalpost keeps moving. One day it's one thing. The next day it's another thing. It's like whack-a-mole with these arguments. So let's break it down. When you draft a player and you develop him, he's supposed to match the identity of your organization. Second, Hachimura has years of chemistry with our team. Where does chemistry fit into your analysis of replacement players?

Most important is the fact that Rui commands the focus of the defense and double teams. This is the biggest flaw in your logic. You look at stats and say player x = player y. How many defenses double-team Eddie House Jr? How many defenses double-team Derrick Jones Jr? Those guys are self-checks who have no offensive skill. They cannot be compared to Hachimura. Rui right now is good enough to be the 6th man on a championship team. Hachimura's offensive success this season is actually very impressive. Especially given the fact that we are such a bad 3-point shooting team. So far this season the Wizards are 28th in the league in 3-point %. Yet Rui is just chugging along, efficiently scoring.

I'm going to tell you something you might not know. Most players in the league cannot score efficiently in 1-on-1 situations. They need the star on their team to set them up and then they can score. So what happens when the star that generates offense goes on the bench? The offense dies. You can look at stats and speak all you want to about how Hachimura is a replacement-level player. Yesterday's game is a testament to the fact that he is the prototypical 6th man scorer off the bench. No Beal, no Porzingis and Rui has his most efficient game of the season. How many replacement-level players can handle being the main focus of the defense for any stretch of the game?

When he is +20 in a win, then I'm not moving the goal posts. Those _are_ my goal posts.

Yeah, if he can score 23 points in 26 minutes on a 71% TS% every night, then I'm all in. But it's completely disingenuous to imply that that is what he has consistently done when given the opportunity. His TS% on the season is .542, which is rather bad. I'd hardly characterize it as "chugging along, efficiently scoring". And he also gives you no playmaking. The notion that he consistently draws double teams is definitely false. I've very rarely seen a double team because most defenders can goad him into taking an off-balance long 2 at mediocre efficiency. Why double team that?

He sees double-teams all the time actually, but it is generally because he drives directly into them. They weren't double-teams until he ran directly at them, instead of passing to the open man. Awesome if he starts consistently scoring efficiently through the defense, yes that is what the best of the best can do, but in his case most of those crowds are self-created. Players know they don't have to cover their man when Rui has the ball because it is not coming back out.

[nate33]

Take Derrick Jones Jr., for instance. He is a random journeyman forward who is always available in free agency and usually plays well enough to help out the depth of a decent team. He is just 1 year older than Rui. Chicago signed him as an unrestricted free agent this summer for $3.2M. Compare his production this season to Rui's: https://stathead.com/tiny/hUeVg

I guess you can consider Rui comparable to Derrick Jones..if you ignore the fact that Rui is a better rebounder, better FT shooter, better 3pt shooter, and all=around better offensive player.

Yeah, and Jones is MUCH better defensively with steals and blocks, he passes more, and he turns the ball over at a downright anemic rate. Also, you are wrong about Jones is FT shooting. He shoots better from the line, and, more importantly, he gets there twice as often. Jones obliterates Hachimura in TS%, ORtg, WS/48, PER, BPM and EPM for a reason.

[tleikheen]

Jones obliterates Hachimura in TS%, ORtg, WS/48, PER, BPM and EPM for a reason.

Jones doesnt obliterate anyone in the NBA getting only 14 mpg

[DCZards]

Take Derrick Jones Jr., for instance. He is a random journeyman forward who is always available in free agency and usually plays well enough to help out the depth of a decent team. He is just 1 year older than Rui. Chicago signed him as an unrestricted free agent this summer for $3.2M. Compare his production this season to Rui's: https://stathead.com/tiny/hUeVg

I guess you can consider Rui comparable to Derrick Jones..if you ignore the fact that Rui is a better rebounder, better FT shooter, better 3pt shooter, and all=around better offensive player.

Yeah, and Jones is MUCH better defensively with steals and blocks, he passes more, and he turns the ball over at a downright anemic rate. Also, you are wrong about Jones is FT shooting. He shoots better from the line, and, more importantly, he gets there twice as often. Jones obliterates Hachimura in TS%, ORtg, WS/48, PER, BPM and EPM for a reason.

Jones is a 70% FT shooter on his career...Rui shoots 77% for his career. Advantage Rui. On their careers, both get to the line 3.2 per 36 min. And per 36 on their careers, Rui averages 1.8 assists per game compared to Jones 1.3. So, while Jones may pass more, he's not necessarily a better passer than Rui.

Yes, Jones turnover rate is anemic...but so are his ball handling skills, which is why he rarely handles the ball. That might have something to do with his low turnover rate.

But I totally agree that Jones is a much better defensive player, which is an area where we all agree that Rui needs to improve. Rui also needs to look to set up teammates...and not always look to score when he catches the ball. So, yeah, Rui is far from a complete basketball player, but he's a much more valuable player than Jones, imo.

There's a reason why this is Jones' 4th NBA team in 7 seasons...and why he's only getting paid $3.2M.

[payitforward]

I don't want to pee in anyone's Cheerios. I'm just trying my best to be objective. As I said in another thread earlier, Rui is no longer a young player. He is 24 years old and getting real close to WYSIWYG territory. I don't think we can project significant improvement going forward,

This is phoney analysis ..... while we watch the 27 yr old Kuz go from being a 16/17 ppg game player to knowing and thinking he could be even better and then showing it . Before our eyes we see Hachimura go at everyone knowing he can bully or finesse his way to the basket over and over at a 50 per cent clip .Why would anyone but the anti Rui's think different.
Up to last nights game I've seen Barton and Kuz always looking away from Rui in games looking for their own basket.But Kuz looked for Rui and we saw a budding twosome building between them .
We wont see that with Barton ....he and his under 40 per cent gunning needs to be moved in a trade. But Rui is ascending as is Kuz and with more playing time with Rui and Kuz I think Deni will start having success . Ive always advocated the Wiz will win when Rui,Kuz,Deni ,KP and Beal play together at the same time.

Both guys had good games vs. the Mavs. Glad to see it.

Overall, this season, up to this point (& things may change), Kuz is having a pretty terrible season. Not nearly as good as last year, & even further from his best year so far, i.e. his last w/ the Lakers.

TBH, if you can't see that looking at games & track in the box score, then it's hard to understand why anyone would take seriously an assessment of the kind you make above.

Kuz's rebounds (on both ends) are down, his assists are down, his blocks are down, his steals are down, & his fouls are up. His TOs being down helps a little but not enough.

It's more or less the same story with Rui. His rebounds are up, but everything else is down. His scoring efficiency is down significantly. His assists are down 30%. His turnovers have doubled. He's getting only a quarter as many steals as last year. Blocks & assists are up a bit, but overall Rui Hachimura is *not* playing well on the season.

He's scored better in recent games, so maybe he can turn the season around a bit. But, the idea that Rui is "good" in any sense of the word, a "good player," is just a fantasy & no more.

[AFM]

Talk to that fella, PIF.

[payitforward]

Take Derrick Jones Jr., for instance. He is a random journeyman forward who is always available in free agency and usually plays well enough to help out the depth of a decent team. He is just 1 year older than Rui. Chicago signed him as an unrestricted free agent this summer for $3.2M. Compare his production this season to Rui's: https://stathead.com/tiny/hUeVg

I guess you can consider Rui comparable to Derrick Jones...if you ignore the fact that Rui is a better rebounder, better FT shooter, better 3pt shooter, and all=around better offensive player.

Wow, Zards....

You may want to take another look.

Jones TS% = .595 vs. Rui = .542
Free Throw % ??? Jones is at .839. Rui is .724

Every 40 minutes, Rui records 3.67 more points than Jones. To do that, he has to use almost 6 more possessions than Jones uses. I.e. way more shots, way more turnovers (Rui turns the ball over almost six times as often as Jones!) & fewer FTAs.

In short, Jones is a much much better offensive player than Rui -- it isn't even close, & it isn't a matter of opinion.

Then there's the fact that Jones gets five times as many steals as Rui! & almost twice as many offensive boards as Rui. & more assists too. Not to mention that he blocks 2.5 times as many shots as Rui!

Rui gets more defensive boards & fouls less. That's it for what he does better than Jones.

[DCZards]

Take Derrick Jones Jr., for instance. He is a random journeyman forward who is always available in free agency and usually plays well enough to help out the depth of a decent team. He is just 1 year older than Rui. Chicago signed him as an unrestricted free agent this summer for $3.2M. Compare his production this season to Rui's: https://stathead.com/tiny/hUeVg

I guess you can consider Rui comparable to Derrick Jones...if you ignore the fact that Rui is a better rebounder, better FT shooter, better 3pt shooter, and all=around better offensive player.

Wow, Zards....

You may want to take another look.

Jones TS% = .595 vs. Rui = .542
Free Throw % ??? Jones is at .839. Rui is .724

Every 40 minutes, Rui records 3.67 more points than Jones. To do that, he has to use almost 6 more possessions than Jones uses. I.e. way more shots, way more turnovers (Rui turns the ball over almost six times as often as Jones!) & fewer FTAs.

In short, Jones is a much much better offensive player than Rui -- it isn't even close, & it isn't a matter of opinion.

Then there's the fact that Jones gets five times as many steals as Rui! & almost twice as many offensive boards as Rui. & more assists too. Not to mention that he blocks 2.5 times as many shots as Rui!

Rui gets more defensive boards & fouls less. That's it for what he does better than Jones.

Really, PIF. You're gonna come at me with numbers from 10-11 games. Really?

Tell me this, how do Jones and Rui compare per 36 career wise in rebounding or 3pt shooting or FT shooting or scoring or assists or FTAs?

I'll give you that Jones is the much better defensive player but both the #s and the eye test show that Rui is the better all-around offensive player.

[prime1time]

As is often the case, PIF trots out statistics devoid of context as if statistics speak for themselves. If Derrick Jones Jr is such a great offensive force why doesn't he have a larger offensive role?

[Frichuela]

Whatever the case, Tommy should trade either Kuz or Rui at the deadline. He can not expect to pay both in the off-season. While Barton’s contract expires, Gafford’s annual pay is gonna increase by $10mn a year when his extension kicks.

A Rui for Jones + POR 1st (Lottery protected) would be a great return.

[dlts20]

So proud of how quickly he was able to recover, overcome, or not let the mental issues effect his game

[doclinkin]

Again giving due respect, Rui had a number of really solid defensive possessions this game, especially against Markannen. Burned a couple of times by guards, but in general it seems he plays well next to the big line of Deni + Kuzma. Loved Porzingis finding him for timely dunks. And if he can consistently add those blocked shots every few games he will force teams to respect him.

LOL love these Japanese supercuts that have every microsecond of Rui's onscreen time, good and not so good.

Watch on YouTube

He's also gotten better at giving up the ball when stopped. At 3:51 above for instance. Porzingis' nasty putback slam came after Rui was stopped driving across the middle and he made a nice mid-air kickback to Deni at the 3pt line.

[prime1time]

Who you guys taking Rui, Derrick Jones or Daniel House?

I can't wait for posters to double down on their bad takes because they can't admit they were wrong. Btw, for all the people who say that removing Hachimura from team is addition via substraction...

Read on Twitter

[tleikheen]

tleikheen wrote:
I don't want to pee in anyone's Cheerios. I'm just trying my best to be objective. As I said in another thread earlier, Rui is no longer a young player. He is 24 years old and getting real close to WYSIWYG territory. I don't think we can project significant improvement going forward,

This is phoney analysis ..... while we watch the 27 yr old Kuz go from being a 16/17 ppg game player to knowing and thinking he could be even better and then showing it . Before our eyes we see Hachimura go at everyone knowing he can bully or finesse his way to the basket over and over at a 50 per cent clip .Why would anyone but the anti Rui's think different.
Up to last nights game I've seen Barton and Kuz always looking away from Rui in games looking for their own basket.But Kuz looked for Rui and we saw a budding twosome building between them .
We wont see that with Barton ....he and his under 40 per cent gunning needs to be moved in a trade. But Rui is ascending as is Kuz and with more playing time with Rui and Kuz I think Deni will start having success . Ive always advocated the Wiz will win when Rui,Kuz,Deni ,KP and Beal play together at the same time.

Both guys had good games vs. the Mavs. Glad to see it.

Overall, this season, up to this point (& things may change), Kuz is having a pretty terrible season. Not nearly as good as last year, & even further from his best year so far, i.e. his last w/ the Lakers.

TBH, if you can't see that looking at games & track in the box score, then it's hard to understand why anyone would take seriously an assessment of the kind you make above.

Kuz's rebounds (on both ends) are down, his assists are down, his blocks are down, his steals are down, & his fouls are up. His TOs being down helps a little but not enough.

It's more or less the same story with Rui. His rebounds are up, but everything else is down. His scoring efficiency is down significantly. His assists are down 30%. His turnovers have doubled. He's getting only a quarter as many steals as last year. Blocks & assists are up a bit, but overall Rui Hachimura is *not* playing well on the season.

He's scored better in recent games, so maybe he can turn the season around a bit. But, the idea that Rui is "good" in any sense of the word, a "good player," is just a fantasy & no more

Rui is scoring on all 3 levels. Such terrible analysis on Rui's game but usually that comes on Rui hate that doesnt allow you to see the game as most ppl do.

[nate33]

I stand by everything I said.

I said Rui has not been a positive player for most of his career. That is statistically true as supported by his significantly negative on/off differential in every year of his career.

I said that Rui had not been an efficient scorer this season (prior to his recent return from injury). That was also unequivocally true.

I said that Rui is "getting very close" to WYSIWYG territory. I said he was close, not that he was already there. I very specifically said that "I don't think we can project significant improvement going forward, unless it happens real soon." Well, guess what? It looks like it's happening. If Rui can keep up this efficient scoring on significant volume, then I will happily change my opinion on his effectiveness as a player.

[gambitx777]

I'll stand behind Rui and we should lock him into something reasonable before he out prices us imo

Sent from my SM-G991U1 using RealGM mobile app

[prime1time]

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