If killian keeps this up, we should pair him with Cade

AnnArborpiston · Post #1 » by **AnnArborpiston** » Sun Nov 13, 2022 12:11 pm

Cade (36)/Ivey (12)
Killian (24)/Ivey (24)
Bojan /Bey
Stew/ Diallo
Duren /Bagely

Hayes is a much better pairing with Cade.

bstein14 · Post #2 » by **bstein14** » Sun Nov 13, 2022 12:56 pm

AnnArborpiston wrote:Cade (36)/Ivey (12)
Killian (24)/Ivey (24)
Bojan /Bey
Stew/ Diallo
Duren /Bagely

Hayes is a much better pairing with Cade.

Killian plays best with the ball in his hands. Cade plays the ball in his hands. They weren't good together last year. Killian, even though he has played much better the last week.... hasn't still been a starter level player.

His 6 games thus far in the month of November.

9.0 PPG 41.2 FG% 35.3 3pt% 2.5 RPG 3.7 APG and 2.3 TO per game.

His assist to TO ratio is still real bad, his percentages still aren't good they are just much better than where he was to start the season. Honestly I'd take 35% from three from him for the full year of course.

Yes, he has played much better than he did in October (which was a brutal month for him) but we'd be fools to throw him into the starting lineup with Cade... especially at the expense of Ivey who is just flat out better across the board.

pistonsbball · Post #3 » by **pistonsbball** » Sun Nov 13, 2022 1:04 pm

No way. Ivey's gonna create so much offense the way he collapses the defense. Cade's gotta get better at catch and shoot, as I think he will. Keep Hayes on the bench and there's no reason you can't eventually close with all 3. Cade's size and Killian's defense will make this possible. It's becoming a multiple ball handlers league, where you need more than 1 guy that can break down the defense. The ability to attack and reset and go again during a possession is a huge advantage.

Moses ShamMoses · Post #4 » by **Moses ShamMoses** » Sun Nov 13, 2022 1:55 pm

Yeah I hate to say it but Killian and Cade starting with Ivey leading the bench is probably more balanced. Killian is a better defender than Ivey (can take the harder assignment) and I'm less worried about him getting touches. Every time I watch Ivey I want to see what he can do being aggressive and creating his own shot. I think that's easier to do with the second unit right now since he wouldn't have Bojan, Cade, and Bey needing to get theirs first.

zeebneeb · Post #5 » by **zeebneeb** » Sun Nov 13, 2022 2:18 pm

Okay, okay, okay. I am now officially in bizarro world.

While we're going down this path, has anyone thought that maybe the best way forward is an Ivey/Hayes backcourt?

Push Cade to the SF slot.

Moses ShamMoses · Post #6 » by **Moses ShamMoses** » Sun Nov 13, 2022 2:28 pm

zeebneeb wrote::lol:

Okay, okay, okay. I am now officially in bizarro world.

While we're going down this path, has anyone thought that maybe the best way forward is an Ivey/Hayes backcourt?

Push Cade to the SF slot.

Sure, I think we all want Cade, Ivey, and Killian to succeed. I'm sure even the Killian haters would gladly be proven wrong. The only way that lineup happens is Killian emerges as more than just a backup point guard. Again, that means our future is a little brighter.

buzzkilloton · Post #7 » by **buzzkilloton** » Sun Nov 13, 2022 3:34 pm

Moses ShamMoses wrote:Yeah I hate to say it but Killian and Cade starting with Ivey leading the bench is probably more balanced. Killian is a better defender than Ivey (can take the harder assignment) and I'm less worried about him getting touches. Every time I watch Ivey I want to see what he can do being aggressive and creating his own shot. I think that's easier to do with the second unit right now since he wouldn't have Bojan, Cade, and Bey needing to get theirs first.

Ivey+Killian with Cade off the bench.

bjones521 · Post #8 » by **bjones521** » Sun Nov 13, 2022 3:55 pm

SMH this just shows that people just look at stats and dont watch the game. Boston left Hayes WIDE OPEN the entire game! Boston was literally begging him to score while putting their worst defender on him. Boston had Blake guarding Hayes and played zone. THE DISRESPECT. Cant you guys see teams try to get Hayes to shoot so no one else gets going. Hayes is terrible.

guldakot · Post #9 » by **guldakot** » Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:02 pm

I've been one of the biggest Killian supporters on this board, but lets get him sniffing solid rotation level play before thinking about starting him. Much like I warned we couldn't judge a player based on season count when the kid didn't play, we can't assume hes turned or even turning the corner just based off of 3 solid games.

We've got em for 2 more years let him develop, who knows we could end up with a legendary 3 guard rotation when its all said and done.

chrbal · Post #10 » by **chrbal** » Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:32 pm

Did Hayes suddenly become a;

Knockdown three point shooter with 43% or better from there with around 5 attempts per game?

6’8” or taller with his skill set?

Prime Jason Kidd with some range?

No

How about we just shoot for him to be a good or better 6th- 7th man first. Or heck, just an average effective backup first

Kalamazoo317 · Post #11 » by **Kalamazoo317** » Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:48 pm

If Killian keeps this up ... he should be in our 9 man rotation. lol

Moses ShamMoses · Post #12 » by **Moses ShamMoses** » Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:58 pm

I just think there is potential value to balancing out the 1st and 2nd units...in my mind, your "best 5" aren't necessarily who should start the game. How does this look? Starters have 3 scorers and 2 role players who can defend/rebound. Bench gets infused with some talent adding Ivey and Stewart to the mix.

Starters:

Killian
Cade
Bey
Bojan
Duren

Bench:

Ivey
Burks
Livers
Stewart
Bagley

vege · Post #13 » by **vege** » Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:27 pm

bjones521 wrote:SMH this just shows that people just look at stats and dont watch the game. Boston left Hayes WIDE OPEN the entire game! Boston was literally begging him to score while putting their worst defender on him. Boston had Blake guarding Hayes and played zone. THE DISRESPECT. Cant you guys see teams try to get Hayes to shoot so no one else gets going. Hayes is terrible.

Finally someone that watch the game. At one point during the game Hayes went 1/7 from the field and all 7 shots were wide open. He is still garbage. CoJo was better than him against Boston.

He is putting a lot of effort on the defense and having a much better attitude than the last 2 seasons, but he is TERRIBLE, we play 4 on 5 with him, against Boston it was most 4 on 4 because Blake is as bad as Killian nowadays.

Invictus88 · Post #14 » by **Invictus88** » Sun Nov 13, 2022 10:24 pm

zeebneeb wrote::lol:

Okay, okay, okay. I am now officially in bizarro world.

While we're going down this path, has anyone thought that maybe the best way forward is an Ivey/Hayes backcourt?

Push Cade to the SF slot.

I LOVE it that after 2 so-so games from Killian we are now elevating him from the trash can to the starting lineup.

I just want to wait for a game where Nerlens Noel randomly dishes out 4 assists and Stew buries a couple of threes so I can the create a thread saying they should be our starting backcourt.

DBC10 · Post #15 » by **DBC10** » Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:39 am

There's no real scenario barring injury this season where Ivey won't get the start and get starter minutes considering he's not an absolute disaster on that front and it's deemed for developmental purposes for a 5th pick

bstein14 · Post #16 » by **bstein14** » Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:00 am

After a horrible start to this season, the last few games have given me hope that Killian is capable of working himself into being a slightly below average backup PG by next season (when we're on the hook for his $7.4 million 4th year).... earlier this season it looked like he was going to be well out of the rotation, but he has given us a reason for a bit of hope. I'm fine with his 4th year option being picked up if he can simply be the 15th - 20th best backup PG in the league next year.... we just can't afford to play him if he's near the very bottom of the entire league, which is was before his last week or so of play.... if he's going to be that bad we've got to go a different route soon.

MotownMadness · Post #17 » by **MotownMadness** » Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:35 pm

Yeah no, Ivey is the PG of the future here now.

Moses ShamMoses · Post #18 » by **Moses ShamMoses** » Mon Nov 14, 2022 1:20 pm

I thought Ivey was brought in to be a shooting guard next to Cade who is our point guard and floor general. I've been encouraged by some of his point guard instincts though. I view him more of a combo guard at the moment. Not a good enough shooter yet and not a floor general either, sort of in-between, which is fine for a rookie learning the nba game.

Drwho17 · Post #19 » by **Drwho17** » Mon Nov 14, 2022 4:33 pm

I don't trust that Hayes finally gets it, maybe some other team does though, trade him.

Rip32 · Post #20 » by **Rip32** » Sat Nov 19, 2022 4:24 pm

pistonsbball wrote:No way. Ivey's gonna create so much offense the way he collapses the defense. Cade's gotta get better at catch and shoot, as I think he will. Keep Hayes on the bench and there's no reason you can't eventually close with all 3. Cade's size and Killian's defense will make this possible. It's becoming a multiple ball handlers league, where you need more than 1 guy that can break down the defense. The ability to attack and reset and go again during a possession is a huge advantage.

With the way Ivey play, Cade has to become a better scorer.