OT: Investing/Stocks/Bonds/Mutual Funds/Crypto

[Mags FTW]

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[Plossum]

Not sure how you can sue the celebs for endorsing a business that ultimately went bust. Seems the plaintiffs would have to somehow prove the celebs knew or ought to have known about FTX's issues which will be a high bar to reach, even in a civil case.

[TroyD92]

We were talking about Elon so I'll just say him shutting down 80% of twitters services cause they were 'inefficient' is peak smooth brain. No idea if he's trolling or just actually that dumb

[jschligs]

I always traded/invested Crypto as an asset class. It was never more than 10% of my portfolio. But I sold several months ago (I think when BTC was around 25k).

Everyone telling me to take it off Centralized Exchanges is a big turnoff for me. And I'm not sure if I will ever re-enter unless it gets crazy low again (like 5k BTC, 200 ETH like the old days).

Storing in a cold wallet, likely having to insure it if it's a large amount, worried about losing keys/wallets breaking etc.... this sounds like a lot of work and stress to be honest. At this point, I rather buy gold/silver coins if I am going to go through the trouble of something physical in case FIAT currency is ever deemed worthless.

Same here but I exited when BTC was about $32k. Haven't looked back and quite honestly, I am glad I'm out of it.

Why did you sell?

For me, it was just like I said. If I can't just hold it in a exchange like Coinbase, it's way too much work. And I don't trust myself to hold it. I can see myself losing a key/wallet. Also, if it's this annoying to just "physically" hold Crypto, I image crypto transactions are just as annoying.

I probably wouldn't hold stocks either if I had to hold physical stock certificates like the old days lol.

I think I got tired of the volatility and the culture surrounding it. Cryptobros and the sheer number of people who thought it was a get rich quick scheme made it prop up its value way higher than it is. I had one of my best friends trying to get me to sign up for an NFT weed growing pod. Why the hell do I need an NFT to grow weed? And all of the constant “it’s going to make everything better through smart contracts, oh and passive income just for playing a video game.” I don’t want that. Too many projects were all hype. When it started coming down I sold and if it reaches $10k a coin maybe I’ll jump back in. Then all the hysteria happened and keeps happening and I’m really glad I have no stake in it. If I miss out I’ll on gains I’m ok with it. I do just fine otherwise.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Feels like someone could write a doctoral thesis on how this FTX represents all that's **** in our society.

Greed, fraud, silicone valley dbags, money in politics, people going to the latest get rich quick schemes, the amount of money involved and made/lost in things that bring no real value to the world, athletes taking money to pitch shady products, idiots actually taking investing advice from athlete, litigation for being dumb. It really plays all the hits.

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[HurricaneKid]

The more I read about FTX the more wild it gets.

Still wild disputes about what crypto is. For an exchange to use client holdings to buy real estate is just wild to me. Imagine if a bank did that... I think this could really be a damaging time for crypto as people start to understand just how bad it is out there and what is actually happening in these companies.

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[GiannisAnte34]

The more I read about FTX the more wild it gets.

Still wild disputes about what crypto is. For an exchange to use client holdings to buy real estate is just wild to me. Imagine if a bank did that... I think this could really be a damaging time for crypto as people start to understand just how bad it is out there and what is actually happening in these companies.

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Banks do use their clients money to support all kinds of activities such as lending. Banks also pay fines to manipulate markets in their favor, for example Chase paying 500,000 dollar fines to use AI computers that ping pong precious metal assets back and forth to themselves to manipulate the price in their favor.

[GiannisAnte34]

Acting like the SEC is some protector for the common man is a laugh riot.. good one.

You and Elon Musk are totally aligned in this opinion, although he expresses himself more colorfully, even though he denies it when under oath in court.

At a time when Tesla shares were on a massive upswing, Musk had written in a tweet on July 2, 2020: “SEC, three letter acronym, middle word is Elon’s.” The message was widely read as having a vulgar meaning and comprising a major insult to the agency.

On Wednesday in the Delaware court, attorneys asked him about this tweet and Musk claimed it had been widely misunderstood. The Tesla CEO said in court that he meant the initials to stand for “Save Elon’s Company” but the tweet was “interpreted differently.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/16/elon-musk-says-he-doesnt-want-to-be-a-ceo-walks-back-sec-insults.html

There is a looooong list of corrupt activities hedge funds, MMs, banks, and wall street criminals do on a regular basis that would make any common investors head spin. Acting like the SEC is some honorable entity that protects the common person is either disingenuous or ignorant. Even if some of those clearly unethical practices are legalized by fines that are really just the cost of doing business to screw over average folks.

[sidney lanier]

Acting like the SEC is some protector for the common man is a laugh riot.. good one.

You and Elon Musk are totally aligned in this opinion, although he expresses himself more colorfully, even though he denies it when under oath in court.

At a time when Tesla shares were on a massive upswing, Musk had written in a tweet on July 2, 2020: “SEC, three letter acronym, middle word is Elon’s.” The message was widely read as having a vulgar meaning and comprising a major insult to the agency.

On Wednesday in the Delaware court, attorneys asked him about this tweet and Musk claimed it had been widely misunderstood. The Tesla CEO said in court that he meant the initials to stand for “Save Elon’s Company” but the tweet was “interpreted differently.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/16/elon-musk-says-he-doesnt-want-to-be-a-ceo-walks-back-sec-insults.html

There is a looooong list of corrupt activities hedge funds, MMs, banks, and wall street criminals do on a regular basis that would make any common investors head spin. Acting like the SEC is some honorable entity that protects the common person is either disingenuous or ignorant. Even if some of those clearly unethical practices are legalized by fines that are really just the cost of doing business to screw over average folks.

True, they don't catch everybody, but the fact that some shady characters hate them enough to tell them to suck it is indicative of some deterrent effect, which is better than nothing, and certainly better than the preposterous disorder in the crypto world as they and other regulators try to figure out what the hell to do with an ecosystem of imaginary values.

[GiannisAnte34]

You and Elon Musk are totally aligned in this opinion, although he expresses himself more colorfully, even though he denies it when under oath in court.

There is a looooong list of corrupt activities hedge funds, MMs, banks, and wall street criminals do on a regular basis that would make any common investors head spin. Acting like the SEC is some honorable entity that protects the common person is either disingenuous or ignorant. Even if some of those clearly unethical practices are legalized by fines that are really just the cost of doing business to screw over average folks.

True, they don't catch everybody, but the fact that some shady characters hate them enough to tell them to suck it is indicative of some deterrent effect, which is better than nothing, and certainly better than the preposterous disorder in the crypto world as they and other regulators try to figure out what the hell to do with an ecosystem of imaginary values.

When I do buy crypto I put it on a hardware device so I completely dodge any shenanigans with exchanges. That’s my advice for anyone interested in investing any significant amount of money into crypto. It can and will inevitably bounce back, that being said nobody knows the bottom of a bear market which has no sign of ending soon.

[sidney lanier]

There is a looooong list of corrupt activities hedge funds, MMs, banks, and wall street criminals do on a regular basis that would make any common investors head spin. Acting like the SEC is some honorable entity that protects the common person is either disingenuous or ignorant. Even if some of those clearly unethical practices are legalized by fines that are really just the cost of doing business to screw over average folks.

True, they don't catch everybody, but the fact that some shady characters hate them enough to tell them to suck it is indicative of some deterrent effect, which is better than nothing, and certainly better than the preposterous disorder in the crypto world as they and other regulators try to figure out what the hell to do with an ecosystem of imaginary values.

When I do buy crypto I put it on a hardware device so I completely dodge any shenanigans with exchanges. That’s my advice for anyone interested in investing any significant amount of money into crypto. It can and will inevitably bounce back, that being said nobody knows the bottom of a bear market which has no sign of ending soon.

Don't forget your password.

As silly and ruinous as I think crypto investing is, I have to admit to having some compunction for that poor guy with 7,000 bitcoin on the iron key device he can't remember the password to.

https://9now.nine.com.au/a-current-affair/bitcoin-software-developer-stefan-thomas-fortune-rising-forgotten-millions/1e0f32bb-62ed-464c-8ac1-63716779bdfe

[BucksFanSD]

I am curious how a prolonged, deep recession would impact crytpo prices. That would be a new test for it. I haven't bought much crypto but i could see a possible scenario next year which triggers price deductions in many risk assets to include crypto that make it too hard not to buy, hold, and hope.

[sidney lanier]

I am curious how a prolonged, deep recession would impact crytpo prices. That would be a new test for it. I haven't bought much crypto but i could see a possible scenario next year which triggers price deductions in many risk assets to include crypto that make it too hard not to buy, hold, and hope.

There's something to that, but I think financial bubbles run their course independent of background economic cycles. Crypto will probably follow the pattern of Tulipmania in 17th-century Holland and the Mississippi scheme in the 18th-century US. The pattern is summarized here:

Investors lose track of rational expectations.
Psychological biases lead to a massive upswing in the price of an asset or sector.
A positive-feedback cycle continues to inflate prices.
Investors realize that they are holding an irrationally priced asset.
Prices collapse due to a massive sell-off, and an overwhelming majority go bankrupt.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/dutch_tulip_bulb_market_bubble.asp

These feedback loops are strong enough to make a bunch of Dutchmen think a tulip bulb is worth more than a mansion, so it isn't surprising that the gullible don't get the Dogecoin joke or don't understand why Warren Buffett calls crypto a delusion and "rat poison squared." Before the day of reckoning comes, I hope everyone here has shaken it off and gotten out.

[M-C-G]

The more I read about FTX the more wild it gets.

Still wild disputes about what crypto is. For an exchange to use client holdings to buy real estate is just wild to me. Imagine if a bank did that... I think this could really be a damaging time for crypto as people start to understand just how bad it is out there and what is actually happening in these companies.

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I think if you come to the conclusion FTX was a brilliant money laundering system that wasn’t meant to last, it kind of makes it all make sense.


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[MrPerfect1]

XRP is basically a meme at this point, akin to doge/shib. It may see a bump if they win their lawsuit but it has no long-term future in the space.

You're talking absolute nonsense. Ripple has a legitimate chance of replacing SWIFT because XRP is faster and cheaper for cross border payments. I mean you must be ignorant to the fact that XRP has already demonstrated large institutional adoption (not only exchanges as an offering for clients, but banks using Ripple network)

I mean that was the talking point, but with Swift and other major networks already in the process of switching over to ISO20022 that puts a huge damper on XRP ever replacing them. There's also the fact that XRP is a centralized network which defeats the purpose of defi, and has a 100 billion supply of tokens with only 50% in circulation. As an investment, it's never going to see a monumental rise from it's current price to a stable $1000 like ETH or Bitcoin, or even $100, or even $50. It might reach $10 in 10 years if it wins its lawsuit and continues to add a few banks here and there. $20 in a good bull run.

XRP is currently less than $0.40. Rising to $10 in 10 years would be an amazing return. Heck, just going to $4 would be better than a 10x. I'd be fine with it hitting $1 lol.

Personally, I'm most bullish on QNT.

[sidney lanier]

Nobel economist Paul Krugman piles on.

After 14 years, however, cryptocurrencies have made almost no inroads into the traditional role of money. They’re too awkward to use for ordinary transactions. Their values are too unstable. In fact, relatively few investors can even be bothered to hold their crypto keys themselves — too much risk of losing them by, say, putting them on a hard drive that ends up in a landfill.

Instead, cryptocurrencies are largely purchased through exchanges like Coinbase and, yes, FTX, which take your money and hold crypto tokens in your name.

These exchanges are — wait for it — financial institutions, whose ability to attract investors depends on — wait for it again — those investors’ trust. In other words, the crypto ecosystem has basically evolved into exactly what it was supposed to replace: a system of financial intermediaries whose ability to operate depends on their perceived trustworthiness.

In which case, what is the point? Why should an industry that at best has simply reinvented conventional banking have any fundamental value?

Furthermore, trust in conventional financial institutions rests in part on validation by Uncle Sam: The government supervises banks, regulates the risks they can take and guarantees many deposits, while crypto operates largely without oversight. So investors must rely on the honesty and competence of entrepreneurs; when they offer exceptionally good deals, investors must believe not just in their competence but in their genius.

How has that been working out?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/17/opinion/crypto-banks-regulation-ftx.html

[GiannisAnte34]

You're talking absolute nonsense. Ripple has a legitimate chance of replacing SWIFT because XRP is faster and cheaper for cross border payments. I mean you must be ignorant to the fact that XRP has already demonstrated large institutional adoption (not only exchanges as an offering for clients, but banks using Ripple network)

I mean that was the talking point, but with Swift and other major networks already in the process of switching over to ISO20022 that puts a huge damper on XRP ever replacing them. There's also the fact that XRP is a centralized network which defeats the purpose of defi, and has a 100 billion supply of tokens with only 50% in circulation. As an investment, it's never going to see a monumental rise from it's current price to a stable $1000 like ETH or Bitcoin, or even $100, or even $50. It might reach $10 in 10 years if it wins its lawsuit and continues to add a few banks here and there. $20 in a good bull run.

XRP is currently less than $0.40. Rising to $10 in 10 years would be an amazing return. Heck, just going to $4 would be better than a 10x. I'd be fine with it hitting $1 lol.

Personally, I'm most bullish on QNT.

you expect 5 digits is in play for QNT?

[MrPerfect1]

I mean that was the talking point, but with Swift
and other major networks already in the process of switching over to ISO20022 that puts a huge damper on XRP ever replacing them. There's also the fact that XRP is a centralized network which defeats the purpose of defi, and has a 100 billion supply of tokens with only 50% in circulation. As an investment, it's never going to see a monumental rise from it's current price to a stable $1000 like ETH or Bitcoin, or even $100, or even $50. It might reach $10 in 10 years if it wins its lawsuit and continues to add a few banks here and there. $20 in a good bull run.

XRP is currently less than $0.40. Rising to $10 in 10 years would be an amazing return. Heck, just going to $4 would be better than a 10x. I'd be fine with it hitting $1 lol.

Personally, I'm most bullish on QNT.

you expect 5 digits is in play for QNT?

I have no idea. Expect no, but it isn't impossible to imagine. I think 4 digits is definitely in play in the future. Everyday I hope to see the price decrease but annoyingly it still holds up well in this market.

[midranger]

The third and fourth largest cryptocurrencies by market cap are the so-called stable coins that are purportedly linked to physically held US dollars. As far as I can tell, these prop up the entire crypto system/facilitate trade.

If you honestly believe that the two companies that minted those coins hold a combined $110 BILLION USD(!) to guarantee those coins, and/or on the 0.00000000001% they actually do you’d have access to 1 cent of those reserves if it all went south, well…. That’s on you.

[MickeyDavis]

Bankman is being interviewed right now on TV. Incredibly dumb. I didn't know, I was surprised, I was unaware, I was nervous. Seriously I wouldn't hire this clown to mow my lawn. Classic case of F around and find out.