PG: Knicks + Denny's Grand Slam The Jazz

[j4remi]

You don't need to hit shots when you defend like IQ. Even if the shots don't start dropping more he's still above average efficiency (due to his low turnovers) and absolutely spectacular on defense.

The work he's putting in is showing up on that end.

I feel like he could/should draw more FTAs and I'm hoping that'll trend up and his jumper will pick up with, for rhythm reasons.

But yeah, his defense has been a bit downplayed, and he's doing so many other things well that I think even the struggles from range aren't enough to give up on dude. He rebounds as well as any guard we've got too.

He gets to the line a ton for someone with as few 2 point attempts as he has. That's really the main reason he's efficient. He averages 4.3 FTA and 7.1 2PA per 36 in his career.

He hasn’t been getting to the Free throw line consistently on a game to game basis this year is what I mean. He’s got 6 games without an attempt at the line and a 7th game where his only attempt was from a three-seconds violation.

So when I say he could/should get more FTAs, it’s mainly off belief that he won’t be putting up donuts as often as he has in this early part of the season. I think the career numbers are def reliable. Purely off memory and not checking back, I think he had some trouble getting foul calls early last year but figured it out over time too. But I’m really going off memory on that.

[Clyde_Style]

Sorry to be really down on RJ. I've gone back and forth on him over first 3 years and had settled into basically pro RJ, lets give him some time, but after the contract and that this is 4th NBA season but he's basically the same player?

He's just not that good. He's ok. It's not a sin to be "ok".

In my opinion, he's more likely to play within the concept than Randle, who seems to freelance out of control, so MAYBE in that regard I'd support RJ starting over Randle, but the reality is, both of them starting is just a horrible fit and nothing would save that tandem. I don't think a star wing next to RJ and Randle would fix them.

One has to go. I'll try to not be too angry at either of them as the Knicks continue to suck because of their pairing until the day one is traded, but as long as they are 2/5ths the starting rotation, team is going nowhere.

Fournier vs Grimes vs Cam vs IQ not changing that equation. They just buff the RJ-Randle treadmill a bit.

dude RJ was sick for the past two games. get off the weed. the whole thread is a monolog from you about RJ

He's the worst!

Did you just go full meta vs. yourself?

[KnicksNext]

Not to state the obvious, but teams have decided they won't let RJ go left, and the results have proven they're correct in doing so. He looks so lost and unsure what to do when they take away his left hand.

[KnicksNext]

You'd think it was 2006 as negative as this board is.

How can anyone be this consistently negative about a team that's the 8th youngest team in the league (we're tied for 5th with the Pacers in having the most players under 25 with over 100 minutes despite Grimes' injury limiting his PT), is around .500, will probably have 7 first round picks in the next 3 drafts, has a history of finding steals in the first outside of the lottery, and that finally seems to be giving young players a consistent organizational presence and room to grow as players?

This is literally what the board begged for for the first decade I was on here, now we have a team that's building the right way through the draft and young players and y'all are mad as **** about it. I don't know why everyone is so pressed about blowing up a team built around a 26 year old PG, a 22 year old SG, a 28 year old PF (ok Randle does need to go - but y'all been dragging it for years and hated him the whole time me and Melo were his only defenders when he was signed), and 6 young ass role players with a few vets sprinkled in to teach the young kids how to be professionals.

This is what rebuilding looks like. Y'all be patient. I'd be mad as hell if we blew what we have up to be worse versions of OKC. Detroit is headed to Kings status how about we avoid that outcome.

A common statement around here.. list all the steals please.

Also, it doesn't mean d*ck if you're one of the youngest teams in the league, if the youth you have all have future role player roles in the NBA.

[KnicksNext]

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And look who is number 1, lol

[HarthorneWingo]

So why was he dressed? I doubt it was bc of injury. Thibs is just a moron.

If he's not healthy enough to play he shouldn't dress. He's available to play. He should play. I'm the last one that wants to rush him back.

Who does he take out of rotation?

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Is that even a serious question? Rose is on his last legs he's gone either traded early or after the season

It could just as easily be Thibs managing his minutes early in, and throughout, the season so he's fresh for the playoffs in stead of injured like last time. I think DRose should get to make that decision either way, so long as he's still capable ... assuming his minutes are properly managed. If we're going to make the playoffs, then ideally we want to be healthy and firing on all cylinders the last 15-20 games of the season going into the playoffs. Anyhow, that's the other argument. I doubt we get much more than a future 2nd round pick for him. If he's healthy and he wants to stay, then I say we keep him unless some team is going to offer us a decent FRP.

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

Not to state the obvious, but teams have decided they won't let RJ go left, and the results have proven they're correct in doing so. He looks so lost and unsure what to do when they take away his left hand.

That Ja Morant gif/micro YouTube was brutal. "Just don't give him left and always go under".

[B8RcDeMktfxC]

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And look who is number 1, lol

And number 4. lol

[cgmw]

You’re making the assumption that the Knicks scouts have much of a say in who gets drafted. Sammy Rose got paid. Knicks got a traditional Jordan Hill “win now” big man who can win the dunk contest and oh yeah is the oldest prospect in the draft (Thibs).

This was a no-brainer giftwrap idiot pick for the idiot MSG shotcallers. Scouts? These Knicks? Please.

Rose is new. Fumbling picks in this very specific way is not. It's lasted through Mills, Phil, etc.

Also nothing about Obi is traditional or similar to Jordan Hill. He shoots 40+% from deep!

Always amazed at how much flack I get for stating the obvious.

Yes, I agree with you 100%.

The Knicks didn’t listen to basketball scouts back then and they still don’t listen to basketball scouts.

Jim Dolan is the common denominator. They didn’t care about scouting when Jordan Hill was a prospect, and they didn’t care when Obi was a prospect and they still don’t care now.

They cared that Sammy Rose got paid. They cared that ticket sales might increase from Obi dunks. They cared that MSG stock value might get a bump from a 23 year old ready to “win now.” They cared about giving their “win now” coach the “win now” players he said he needed to compete. Tyrese Haliburton wasn’t beating out Elfrid Payton.

It’s not just naive to think Dolan executives are listening to draft scouts on draft day. It flies in the face of 20+ years common sense. The Knicks don’t care about the draft. Their picks are not based on draft scouting.

The time and effort you spend evaluating draft prospects is not a waste of time because you enjoy it and you’re probably better at it than the people Dolan employs to make draft decisions.

[thebuzzardman]

Randle has had these low BBIQ moments pretty much every game. He just loves having the ball in his hands and dribbling aimlessly. He had 2 guys wide open on that play if he just knew how to make quicker decisions instead he just holds, dribble, holds, until the defense regroups. Just an overall dumb basketball player that doesn't fit the definition of team basketball.

I'd say he has 3 to 5 plays a game where he literally gives the ball away, either on really bad shot selection, forcing a pass, or taking a particularly bad shot. I don't even count low % shots, since every player, especially the good ones, take one or two a game.

This is the issue with Randle. The above, and his come and go attitude towards defense (mostly go, as in go away from the guy he needs to defend).

He gives away too many plays per game and his talent, while good, isn't enough to overcome it.

Look, take the two games the Knicks won against the Pistons. The Pistons have decent young talent. They aren't THAT far from the Knicks, talent wise. But they are young and made a LOT of mistakes in those games, again, just giving up plays by turning the ball over, taking really bad shots etc.

NBA games are won or lost by 5-10 points. With the 3 pointer, it could be 15 - and these are still relatively close games. 2-6 baskets.

He's not the only one, but Randle routinely gives away the margin of victory, by himself, every game.

It's a shame, because he has real talent. I'd say it's the above attributes that make him better suited to be a bench player.

RJ does some of this as well. RJ's issue is more lack of ability, than Randle's is.

Randle, RJ, and Brunson are all terrible defensive players and this is supported by numbers and objective facts outside of knicks fans feelings about them. They all need to have good defensive players around them to have a chance of survival on that end, which can't happen because they're stuck together as the mid-3. These are the 3 players we are building around and you can stick our best defenders in IQ/Cam and Mitch in the mix or Marcus Smart and Gobert in there and that won't be enough to salvage it either. You could probably make due with just two of them with 3 solid defenders (RJ and Randle played together with 3 solid defenders on one of the best defensive teams in the NBA) but there's likely no way the three of them are ever going to work together in a starting lineup. And they're all locked in for 4 years.

So they should bench/trade someone. Benching Randle for Obi is the obvious choice but it likely won't help that much because Obi also sucks on defense. But to his credit, he can shoot now and that will help. So we could try this. RJ shoots 28% from 3 and Brunson shoots 29% from 3 so you basically need to have prime Kevin Garnett with Ray Allen's shooting ability to cover up how Brunson and RJ play on both ends as Randle's replacement, and also an elite 3 and D rim protector at center so we need Wembanyama to add to the fictional PF we're getting, and then hope Cam can be prime Klay Thompson. And maybe then you have a winning team around Brunson and RJ

After Grimes is healthy I'd promote him to the starting lineup, bench RJ, start Obi and start Randle at the 5, gaining perimeter defense and just trying to score more.

Brunson/Rose
Grimes/IQ*
Cam/RJ
Obi/RJ
Randle/Mitch

These two could be swapped, preference Grimes if his shot is legit, which isn't proven

9 players
Keep one extra C for injury reasons

And Knicks should be actively shopping Randle, RJ, Mitch, Shart, Fournier, Rose, SIms, since they really only need one true big behind Randle - I guess they'd need a 3rd C, but if someone wants Sims, keep Shart etc.

[thebuzzardman]

If we drafted Brunson we would be talking about how amazing he is nonstop almost as much as Frank

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I co-sign that not nearly enough keystrokes are dedicated to how good Brunson is on this board.

There's a few posters that seem to hate him as well, which is fun

[thebuzzardman]

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Obi = Chopped Livers

[Clyde_Style]

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Obi = Chopped Livers

Goes great with Cam Whitefish

[prophet_of_rage]

picked up Cam in fantasy recently...he has been playing great!

He’s attacking the rim better after I blasted him for going up like Knox and Mudiay. Hope it continues. I would love for him to take all Fournier shots that would be amazing. We should make it obligation to get him corner 3’s too.

RJ has to pass to him.

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