We're dead last in the entire NBA.

[bstein14]

Bojan has for sure been our best player. Both Bojan and Cade have been bad defensively but Bojan has been much better offensively as far as efficiency goes. Stew has been our best plus/minus player, has put up 12 and 10 in 27 MPG and actually shooting the 3 ball at a higher % than Cade or Bey on a significant number of attempts per game.

Stewart has a 60.6 TS% which is well above league average. Cade has a 49.2 TS% which is way below league average.

Cade Cunninham's PER is 14.94 which is a below average player in this league. Stewart's PER is 17.75 which is an above average player in this league.... Also, tons of other advanced stats show that Stewart is doing more to help his team win at the moment and rank Stewart better than Cade currently.

[vege]

PER? Come on bstein14. And are you comparing a Center's PER to a PG PER? Geez. Cade's TS% was around 53, it's still very early in the season so 1 disastrous game put everything down. But you don't compare a center and a PG using PER and TS, please.

While Cade is creating for everyone and especially Stew, Stewart have a hard time catching the ball (he improved there thank God) and putting the ball on the floor. He is good at some stuff, but terrible at others. We will have a strong playoff bench with Burks/Bey/Stew once we are ready for the playoffs, but that's what Stew and Bey are, great players off the bench.

FWIW Barnes is having to step up and do a little bit of what Cade does for us, and how is he doing? A disaster, yeah.

A bad game, some time off and people forget how good Cade is. He does need to improve a lot of stuff, but he is far from a finished product, and yet, he's already putting up the stats you expect from a #1 overall pick.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

[buzzkilloton]

Stewart has been awesome this season. Not sure how you can watch the Pistons and not be aware of that. People blaming the only good defender for the entire defense sucking is strange.

Not sure why anyone would rather have Grant over Duren. Grant will be 29 this season and is going to be getting a fat new contract. We are led by 20 and 21 year olds not Dame Lillard. Duren is the youngest player in the NBA and is a very promising long term prospect that fits the timeline of a team. That was a great trade.

People have unrealistic expectations of this team pretty much every year. We are rebuilding not trying to make a playin. We kicked back our cap space because were rebuilding. The idea is go after VW,Scoot, and Amen which is what we should be doing.

[mattao313]

Cade is our best player, Bojan our 2nd best. You're one of my favorite posters bstein14, but reading that Stew is our 2nd best player was disturbing.

We have the worst defense in the league, and it's not even close. That's why we are so bad. It's not rocket science. The roster is poorly constructed (we lack size, interior defense, competent defenders), the starting lineup is terrible, and we're tanking by playing Killian Hayes and starting Marvin Bagley.

Cade hasn't been our best player at all Bojan has been much better cade has been pretty bad so far imo

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There can be an argument between Cade and Bojan, sure, but because Bojan have been way better than anyone would expect (but a bad fit with Bey), not because Cade hasn't been good. He started slow, but he had a bunch of insane games in a row, then he got injured.

Stew shouldn't even be in the conversation, but I understand it's more about attitude than actual play. I love Stew's attitude, Hayes has also been a fighter on the defensive end, and we need more of that.

I also agree Stewart is not 2nd he's playing his role fine but at the end of the day he's a role player Stewart can't create for anyone or himself.

It's a argument right now that rookie ivey has been better than cade he's been disappointing starting the season off.

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[bstein14]

PER? Come on bstein14. And are you comparing a Center's PER to a PG PER? Geez. Cade's TS% was around 53, it's still very early in the season so 1 disastrous game put everything down. But you don't compare a center and a PG using PER and TS, please.

While Cade is creating for everyone and especially Stew, Stewart have a hard time catching the ball (he improved there thank God) and putting the ball on the floor. He is good at some stuff, but terrible at others. We will have a strong playoff bench with Burks/Bey/Stew once we are ready for the playoffs, but that's what Stew and Bey are, great players off the bench.

FWIW Barnes is having to step up and do a little bit of what Cade does for us, and how is he doing? A disaster, yeah.

A bad game, some time off and people forget how good Cade is. He does need to improve a lot of stuff, but he is far from a finished product, and yet, he's already putting up the stats you expect from a #1 overall pick.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Looking at raw stats and not looking at efficiency is foolish. Cade has been a below average starter in this league to start the season... he's been much worse than he was the last few months of last season as far as efficiency scoring the basketball.

It's like looking at the 50 win 01 Pistons and thinking 21.4 PPG 4.1 RPG & 5.3 APG Stackhouse was the best player but in reality it was 7.6 PPG & 13.0 RPG Ben Wallace that was the guy playing winning basketball.... Stackhouse was horribly inefficient in his scoring just like Cade this year.

It's not just PER, its most advanced stats. If you look at the RAPTOR rating Beef Stew is the only Piston who is positive both on offense and on defense. It ranks our worst defenders as #1 Bojan, #2 Bey, #3 Ivey, #4 Cade...

Beef Stew is our #1 ranked guy for ON/OFF RAPTOR.
Beef Stew is our #1 ranked guy for overal RAPTOR.
Beef Stew is our #1 guy for WAR, Wins Above Replacement.

[buzzkilloton]

P

[youtube]/youtube]

Watch on YouTube

Looking at raw stats and not looking at efficiency is foolish. Cade has been a below average starter in this league to start the season... he's been much worse than he was the last few months of last season as far as efficiency scoring the basketball.

It's like looking at the 50 win 01 Pistons and thinking 21.4 PPG 4.1 RPG & 5.3 APG Stackhouse was the best player but in reality it was 7.6 PPG & 13.0 RPG Ben Wallace that was the guy playing winning basketball.... Stackhouse was horribly inefficient in his scoring just like Cade this year.

It's not just PER, its most advanced stats. If you look at the RAPTOR rating Beef Stew is the only Piston who is positive both on offense and on defense. It ranks our worst defenders as #1 Bojan, #2 Bey, #3 Ivey, #4 Cade...

Beef Stew is our #1 ranked guy for ON/OFF RAPTOR.
Beef Stew is our #1 ranked guy for overal RAPTOR.
Beef Stew is our #1 guy for WAR, Wins Above Replacement.

Its going to be a ocean of tears here when we give him his raise. Hes for sure the most important player from Weavers first class. I expect hes going to be a Piston a long time.

[bstein14]

P

[youtube]/youtube]

Watch on YouTube

Looking at raw stats and not looking at efficiency is foolish. Cade has been a below average starter in this league to start the season... he's been much worse than he was the last few months of last season as far as efficiency scoring the basketball.

It's like looking at the 50 win 01 Pistons and thinking 21.4 PPG 4.1 RPG & 5.3 APG Stackhouse was the best player but in reality it was 7.6 PPG & 13.0 RPG Ben Wallace that was the guy playing winning basketball.... Stackhouse was horribly inefficient in his scoring just like Cade this year.

It's not just PER, its most advanced stats. If you look at the RAPTOR rating Beef Stew is the only Piston who is positive both on offense and on defense. It ranks our worst defenders as #1 Bojan, #2 Bey, #3 Ivey, #4 Cade...

Beef Stew is our #1 ranked guy for ON/OFF RAPTOR.
Beef Stew is our #1 ranked guy for overal RAPTOR.
Beef Stew is our #1 guy for WAR, Wins Above Replacement.

Its going to be a ocean of tears here when we give him his raise. Hes for sure the most important player from Weavers first class. I expect hes going to be a Piston a long time.

If anything, 1/5th of this season showed that Stewart is a legit starter in this league with a real 3 point shot, and Bey is looking more like a bench player because of his poor defense.... which is surprising after seeing Bey drop 18 PPG for much of the 2nd half of last season including a 50 pointer... but he struggles defensively against quicker SFs.

[vege]

PER? Come on bstein14. And are you comparing a Center's PER to a PG PER? Geez. Cade's TS% was around 53, it's still very early in the season so 1 disastrous game put everything down. But you don't compare a center and a PG using PER and TS, please.

While Cade is creating for everyone and especially Stew, Stewart have a hard time catching the ball (he improved there thank God) and putting the ball on the floor. He is good at some stuff, but terrible at others. We will have a strong playoff bench with Burks/Bey/Stew once we are ready for the playoffs, but that's what Stew and Bey are, great players off the bench.

FWIW Barnes is having to step up and do a little bit of what Cade does for us, and how is he doing? A disaster, yeah.

A bad game, some time off and people forget how good Cade is. He does need to improve a lot of stuff, but he is far from a finished product, and yet, he's already putting up the stats you expect from a #1 overall pick.

Watch on YouTube

Watch on YouTube

Looking at raw stats and not looking at efficiency is foolish. Cade has been a below average starter in this league to start the season... he's been much worse than he was the last few months of last season as far as efficiency scoring the basketball.

It's like looking at the 50 win 01 Pistons and thinking 21.4 PPG 4.1 RPG & 5.3 APG Stackhouse was the best player but in reality it was 7.6 PPG & 13.0 RPG Ben Wallace that was the guy playing winning basketball.... Stackhouse was horribly inefficient in his scoring just like Cade this year.

It's not just PER, its most advanced stats. If you look at the RAPTOR rating Beef Stew is the only Piston who is positive both on offense and on defense. It ranks our worst defenders as #1 Bojan, #2 Bey, #3 Ivey, #4 Cade...

Beef Stew is our #1 ranked guy for ON/OFF RAPTOR.
Beef Stew is our #1 ranked guy for overal RAPTOR.
Beef Stew is our #1 guy for WAR, Wins Above Replacement.

You need to add context to the advanced stats. Look at Cade's role and Stew's role. A lot of Stew easy points come from Cade. A lot of Cade's points are more difficult because of Stewart.

On defense it's not debatable, Stewart is our only above average defender in our starting lineup. However, considering how our team is constructed, Stewart skillset is not good on the defensive end for us. We need for example Livers and Noel there, to help conver some of Bojan/Cade/Ivey deficiencies.

Anyways this is a let's bash Cade's thread, and this is terrible.

We are awful because of:

- the way the roster is contructed
- Ivey is a rookie
- We are intentionally tanking (the minutes we are giving to Hayes x his production make this obvious)
- We are super young and inconsistent.

[bstein14]

We certainly don't have the fight, and it starts with the "leader" in Cade. Maybe he's mad we didn't go out and spend in FA. Maybe he just doesn't have that dog in him. Day one last season he fought hard on defense even when he was struggling hard core at shooting but that was short lived with him.

Reportedly he has had soreness in his shins since pre-season so perhaps that's got something to do with it but overall he hasn't fought the way you'd hope a leader would fight out there. Maybe it is just getting comfortable and being ok with losing since we've been a losing franchise for so long.

[vege]

We are intentionally losing. People wanted this, what did you guys expected would happen? That's tanking for you. You guys asked for it, so enjoy.

Once Casey signed that extention, it was clear he would be part of this. He is likely doing what he is told to do. Lose games while "developing" amazing players like Hayes and Bagley.

Cade is not the reason why we are bad, so you are complaining about the wrong person. Weaver is.

Could be worse I guess, we could be Sacramento, Houston, the Knicks or Charlotte.

[buzzkilloton]

Looking at raw stats and not looking at efficiency is foolish. Cade has been a below average starter in this league to start the season... he's been much worse than he was the last few months of last season as far as efficiency scoring the basketball.

It's like looking at the 50 win 01 Pistons and thinking 21.4 PPG 4.1 RPG & 5.3 APG Stackhouse was the best player but in reality it was 7.6 PPG & 13.0 RPG Ben Wallace that was the guy playing winning basketball.... Stackhouse was horribly inefficient in his scoring just like Cade this year.

It's not just PER, its most advanced stats. If you look at the RAPTOR rating Beef Stew is the only Piston who is positive both on offense and on defense. It ranks our worst defenders as #1 Bojan, #2 Bey, #3 Ivey, #4 Cade...

Beef Stew is our #1 ranked guy for ON/OFF RAPTOR.
Beef Stew is our #1 ranked guy for overal RAPTOR.
Beef Stew is our #1 guy for WAR, Wins Above Replacement.

Its going to be a ocean of tears here when we give him his raise. Hes for sure the most important player from Weavers first class. I expect hes going to be a Piston a long time.

If anything, 1/6th of this season showed that Stewart is a legit starter in this league with a real 3 point shot, and Bey is looking more like a bench player because of his poor defense.

Yup Stewart is on his way from the 3pt line. He made a massive jump this season there. Fans should be super bullish on Stewarts improvements this offseason. He turned 21 in the summer which is a year younger then pick 4 Murray.

We have drafted so many young guys who dont improve year to year now we finally have one that is. Hes going to keep getting better as time goes on. Stewart reps Detroit basketball well hes a keeper.

[Canadafan]

We are intentionally losing. People wanted this, what did you guys expected would happen? That's tanking for you. You guys asked for it, so enjoy.

Once Casey signed that extention, it was clear he would be part of this. He is likely doing what he is told to do. Lose games while "developing" amazing players like Hayes and Bagley.

Cade is not the reason why we are bad, so you are complaining about the wrong person. Weaver is.

Could be worse I guess, we could be Sacramento, Houston, the Knicks or Charlotte.

This is so obvious. It's all part of the plan. No coach can possibly be this clueless

[Manocad]

I love it.

Anything that makes people here lose their minds is entertaining for me.

[MotownMadness]

I love it.

Anything that makes people here lose their minds is entertaining for me.

I've lost mine a long time ago, Pistons will get no credit for that.

[JLiv]

I predicted we’d be 2-8 after the first 10 games, not surprised.

[ducler]

The coming schedule to finish November and even the year looks quite brutal... If we're currently at 3-13, 6-33 by the end of the year is a real possibility. I don't see us starting 2023 with something better than 10-29.

[MotownMadness]

The coming schedule to finish November and even the year looks quite brutal... If we're currently at 3-13, 6-33 by the end of the year is a real possibility. I don't see us starting 2023 with something better than 10-29.

Best to get it over with now. Pistons young guys will still be playing competitive at the end of the year when teams are throwing Gleague rosters out there.

[flow]

We are intentionally losing. People wanted this, what did you guys expected would happen? That's tanking for you. You guys asked for it, so enjoy.

Once Casey signed that extention, it was clear he would be part of this. He is likely doing what he is told to do. Lose games while "developing" amazing players like Hayes and Bagley.

Cade is not the reason why we are bad, so you are complaining about the wrong person. Weaver is.

Could be worse I guess, we could be Sacramento, Houston, the Knicks or Charlotte.

I'm sorry, but this is BS. Casey is not intentionally losing. Coaches do not intentionally lose. He's losing because he sucks and because the team is young and not very good. If Casey was promised all the tea in China to win at all costs this year, you would see exactly the same thing you see right now. The results would be the same. The play would be the same.

[MotownMadness]

We are intentionally losing. People wanted this, what did you guys expected would happen? That's tanking for you. You guys asked for it, so enjoy.

Once Casey signed that extention, it was clear he would be part of this. He is likely doing what he is told to do. Lose games while "developing" amazing players like Hayes and Bagley.

Cade is not the reason why we are bad, so you are complaining about the wrong person. Weaver is.

Could be worse I guess, we could be Sacramento, Houston, the Knicks or Charlotte.

I'm sorry, but this is BS. Casey is not intentionally losing. Coaches do not intentionally lose. He's losing because he sucks and because the team is young and not very good. If Casey was promised all the tea in China to win at all costs this year, you would see exactly the same thing you see right now. The results would be the same. The play would be the same.

Yeah Casey is just a lame duck coach while Weaver collects top 5 picks. He'll be replaced when winning is our top priority.

[Manocad]

I love it.

Anything that makes people here lose their minds is entertaining for me.

I've lost mine a long time ago, Pistons will get no credit for that.

Get a beer? On me