How many rings do you think the 76ers win from 69 to 73 had Wilt stayed and become their player coach

[coastalmarker99]

In this hypothetical scenario.

Wilt decides to stay with the 76ers after 1968 and accepts their offer to become the player-coach of the team with Jack Ramsay as his assistant and GM until 1973.


The 76ers' starting five during those years would be.

Jones

Greer

Walker

Jackson

Wilt

With Billy C. as the 6th man


In 1969 I assume that they win over 62 to 65 games with Jackson staying fully healthy as a result of having not to bulk up to play as a Center.

Wilt as a result of leading his team to the best record in the NBA while posting averages close to his 1967 and 1968 numbers wins his fourth MVP in a row before they then cruise through the playoffs en route to a title with Wilt being given his second finals MVP.


In 1970 after Wilt goes down with a serious knee injury in the ninth game of the season vs the Bullets.

The trio of Greer Walker and Billy c carry the team to 47 wins setting up a first-round matchup with the Bucks who then they barely dispatch in a brutal seven-game series in spite of Kareem averaging over 30 and 15 vs Wilt.


In the ECF vs the Knicks with the series tried at 2 2 after the first four games.

The 76ers with their elite frontcourt take full advantage of Reed going down with a serious leg injury in game 5 to get past the Knicks in six games and set up a finals rematch with LA.

In the finals, LA has finally the home-court advantage but their lack of size to trouble the 76ers frontcourt and Baylor's decline dooms them despite West's stellar play which pushes the series to six games.

Wilt who posts a very efficient 24 PPG and 22 RPG in the series on over 60% against the undersized Lakers is given his third finals MVP as a result.



In 1971 the 76ers win 51 games before beating the Bullets and then the Knicks in the eastern playoffs to make the finals again.

In a classic series, the Bucks dethrone the 76ers in six games with Kareem winning his first finals MVP.



In 1972 with now Billy C and Greer now fully carrying the scoring load due to Greer's decline and also with Wilt fully embracing playing the role of Russell in addition to Bill Bridges playing a key role off the bench.


The 76ers win 60 games with Wilt leading the NBA in RPG and FG% while averaging over 5.5 APG.


In the Eastern playoffs, the 76ers get past the Bullets and New york who are missing Reed before facing the Bucks in a finals rematch with the Bucks having the HCA.


Despite actually being outscored throughout the entire series the 76ers take full advantage of injuries to the Bucks' guards such as Oscar and John McGlocklin and Wali Jones.

To win the series in six games in spite of Kareem putting up a historic finals performance of over 34 PPG and 17 RPG plus 5 APG despite himself fighting a leg injury.

Wilt as a result of keeping Kareem contained from games 3 to 6 is given his 4th finals MVP despite his low PPG.


In 1973 the old 76ers win just 47 games before losing in the first round.

Afterwards, Wilt retires and steps down as the 76ers head coach.

[coastalmarker99]

I was general manager of that Sixers team and got to know Wilt quite well.

When Alex Hannum left the Sixers to coach Oakland in the ABA, I talked with many candidates to replace him.

Among them were Frank McGuire, John Kundla, and Earl Lloyd, each of whom could have had the job, but declined it for various reasons.

Chamberlain often stopped by the Sixers office to inquire how the coach search was going.

When time went by without a selection, he told owner Irv Kosloff and me that he'd be interested in becoming player/coach if I would help him with the Xs and Os.

The suggestion took us both by surprise and we said that we'd give it some thought.

We agreed to meet again in a week, after Wilt had returned from a trip to the West Coast.

I liked the idea. I thought that Wilt would play with added intensity knowing his name was on the line, and I was confident that I could help with the technical aspects of the job.

Koz and I talked it over and agreed that we'd make a deal with Chamberlain to be the team's coach.

[70sFan]

That's an interesting hypothetical, but I don't think Wilt would fare well as a HC. They would have won it all with Hannum in 1969 (assuming good health), but with Wilt as a coach...? I don't know.

After 1969, I think Wilt would have done considerably worse, assuming everything else staying the same. 1970 Sixers with injured Wilt playing in the playoffs wouldn't beat Knicks for sure and it's not a given they would have beaten Bucks to begin with. 1971 is an open year in the East with Knicks struggling with injuries, but it's Bucks year. After 1971, Sixers were so much worse than I can't see old Wilt carrying Sixers even to the finals, let alone to one championship.

In short, I can see one ring and less finals appeariances. Would it help Wilt's resume overall? I don't know, I suppose he'd have another all-time great season without all the drama in 1969, but the rest of his career would be considerably worse than with the Lakers.

[coastalmarker99]

That's an interesting hypothetical, but I don't think Wilt would fare well as a HC. They would have won it all with Hannum in 1969 (assuming good health), but with Wilt as a coach...? I don't know.

After 1969, I think Wilt would have done considerably worse, assuming everything else staying the same. 1970 Sixers with injured Wilt playing in the playoffs wouldn't beat Knicks for sure and it's not a given they would have beaten Bucks to begin with. 1971 is an open year in the East with Knicks struggling with injuries, but it's Bucks year. After 1971, Sixers were so much worse than I can't see old Wilt carrying Sixers even to the finals, let alone to one championship.

In short, I can see one ring and less finals appeariances. Would it help Wilt's resume overall? I don't know, I suppose he'd have another all-time great season without all the drama in 1969, but the rest of his career would be considerably worse than with the Lakers.

Where would you rank Wilt with this resume?

5 MVPs including four in a row from 1966 to 1969.

3 titles 1967,1969,1970

3 finals MVPs

4 finals appearances

11 rebounding titles

seven scoring titles

9 FG% titles

1 assist title.


I do think the 1970 76ers would stand a chance against New york as if Reed still goes down it opens the door for them.


Plus the 76ers would have had a more talented squad then the bullets and they took that 70 Knicks team to seven.

[coastalmarker99]

That's an interesting hypothetical, but I don't think Wilt would fare well as a HC. They would have won it all with Hannum in 1969 (assuming good health), but with Wilt as a coach...? I don't know.

After 1969, I think Wilt would have done considerably worse, assuming everything else staying the same. 1970 Sixers with injured Wilt playing in the playoffs wouldn't beat Knicks for sure and it's not a given they would have beaten Bucks to begin with. 1971 is an open year in the East with Knicks struggling with injuries, but it's Bucks year. After 1971, Sixers were so much worse than I can't see old Wilt carrying Sixers even to the finals, let alone to one championship.

In short, I can see one ring and less finals appeariances. Would it help Wilt's resume overall? I don't know, I suppose he'd have another all-time great season without all the drama in 1969, but the rest of his career would be considerably worse than with the Lakers.

I don't know why you think the rest of his career would be worse than with the Lakers as Cunningham and Walker were all entering their peaks along with Jackson.

While Greer and Wilt would be still in their primes until 1971 and even then Wilt was still a highly impactful player in 1972 and 1973.


With LA Wilt encountered an incompetent coach and a team with virtually no depth compared to his great 76er teams until 1972.

Not only that, but while West was in his prime, Baylor was in a rapid decline.

West was also fighting injuries for much of the five seasons that he and Wilt were paired together.

He missed the last fourth of the '71 season (including the playoffs), and he had two injured wrists in the '70 Finals.

He also had aching knees in the 72-73 post-season and tore his hamstring in the 1973 finals.

So, instead of Chamberlain probably amassing 2 or 3 more rings with the Sixers, he was only able to garner one more (albeit, four finals in five years), with the Lakers.

[Jaivl]

Zero, next question?

[penbeast0]

Wilt's one stint as a head coach in the ABA was a disaster. He wasn't really interested and that spreads through the organization. The Sixers would have the best talent in the league and that might carry them to a title after Russell resigns if the Lakers are still a donut team but I think it would be more like the Jabbar led Bucks . . . maybe one great season but overall a disappointment.

[SkyHookFTW]

You must be assuming each player is near or at their prime. Jackson's last three years were riddled with some serious injuries, including a collapsed lung and chronic problems with his left foot and ankle. He never shot over 40% from the field his last three years. Hal Greer's great career was winding down, and his last two years showed that decline. He was totally cooked his last year. You are also assuming that Walker stays instead of heading off to Chicago in 1969.

In reality, you have Wilt, a HoF forward rotation of Cunningham, Walker, and Jones...and no guards outside a declining Greer to go along with a no longer effective Jackson backing up Wilt while playing some forward. The GM would have to put in some serious work to fill the gaps. Maybe Archie Clark stays the whole time and gives you a competent PG, and keep Guokas and Wali Jones for guard depth. If Clark stays, I'd say they snag a ring.

[Dutchball97]

That's an interesting hypothetical, but I don't think Wilt would fare well as a HC. They would have won it all with Hannum in 1969 (assuming good health), but with Wilt as a coach...? I don't know.

After 1969, I think Wilt would have done considerably worse, assuming everything else staying the same. 1970 Sixers with injured Wilt playing in the playoffs wouldn't beat Knicks for sure and it's not a given they would have beaten Bucks to begin with. 1971 is an open year in the East with Knicks struggling with injuries, but it's Bucks year. After 1971, Sixers were so much worse than I can't see old Wilt carrying Sixers even to the finals, let alone to one championship.

In short, I can see one ring and less finals appeariances. Would it help Wilt's resume overall? I don't know, I suppose he'd have another all-time great season without all the drama in 1969, but the rest of his career would be considerably worse than with the Lakers.

Where would you rank Wilt with this resume?

5 MVPs including four in a row from 1966 to 1969.

3 titles 1967,1969,1970

3 finals MVPs

4 finals appearances

11 rebounding titles

seven scoring titles

9 FG% titles

1 assist title.


I do think the 1970 76ers would stand a chance against New york as if Reed still goes down it opens the door for them.


Plus the 76ers would have had a more talented squad then the bullets and they took that 70 Knicks team to seven.

There's not a lot of movement 1 MVP or even 2 titles can do for someone who is already so high up on all-time lists. I've got Wilt 5th-6th now and that'd still be where I'd have him in this scenario.

[70sFan]

Where would you rank Wilt with this resume?

5 MVPs including four in a row from 1966 to 1969.

3 titles 1967,1969,1970

3 finals MVPs

4 finals appearances

11 rebounding titles

seven scoring titles

9 FG% titles

1 assist title.

It would be very tough for Wilt to get 4th MVP in 1969, voters fatigue is a thing. He'd have to have an even better season than in 1968 and he was a year older. Based on what happened in reality, I doubt he'd take next leap even in a better situation. As I said, I don't see 1970 Sixers winning over Knicks, not with injured Wilt.

I don't rank players based on resume, so I wouldn't change my evaluation that much, if at all.

I do think the 1970 76ers would stand a chance against New york as if Reed still goes down it opens the door for them.

Reed went down in the finals, Sixers would face them earlier (assuming they'd get past Bucks, which is not a given).

Plus the 76ers would have had a more talented squad then the bullets and they took that 70 Knicks team to seven.

Wilt would have a less talented teammates than in reality and the Lakers lost, even with Reed going down.

I don't know why you think the rest of his career would be worse than with the Lakers as Cunningham and Walker were all entering their peaks along with Jackson.

While Greer and Wilt would be still in their primes until 1971 and even then Wilt was still a highly impactful player in 1972 and 1973.

Walker went to the Bulls and Jackson's career was destroyed by injuries. Along with Greer's decline (he definitely wasn't in his prime in 1971), Wilt would be left with Billy and washed up players. They wouldn't even get Archie Clark without Lakers trade.

With LA Wilt encountered an incompetent coach and a team with virtually no depth compared to his great 76er teams until 1972.

I don't agree that Mullaney was an incompetent coach, based on what? I think he did excellent job with the Lakers considering all the injuries he had to deal with and when he went to the ABA, he remained top tier coach. It seems that you want to blame everyone for every loss in Wilt's career.

Not only that, but while West was in his prime, Baylor was in a rapid decline.

West was also fighting injuries for much of the five seasons that he and Wilt were paired together.

He missed the last fourth of the '71 season (including the playoffs), and he had two injured wrists in the '70 Finals.

He also had aching knees in the 72-73 post-season and tore his hamstring in the 1973 finals.

Yeah, compared to Greer who was done by 1972, no Clark, Jackson or Walker I think this version of West is significantly more than what he'd have in Philly.

So, instead of Chamberlain probably amassing 2 or 3 more rings with the Sixers, he was only able to garner one more (albeit, four finals in five years), with the Lakers.

[/quote]
It's far from given that he'd get 3 titles, I doubt he'd have more than one. I can't see him winning in 1971-73 period and 1970 is also unlikely.

The truth is that you'd say that Wilt would have won the title in 1969 and 1970 in reality if you didn't know that he actually had lost them.

[Owly]

That's an interesting hypothetical, but I don't think Wilt would fare well as a HC. They would have won it all with Hannum in 1969 (assuming good health), but with Wilt as a coach...? I don't know.

After 1969, I think Wilt would have done considerably worse, assuming everything else staying the same. 1970 Sixers with injured Wilt playing in the playoffs wouldn't beat Knicks for sure and it's not a given they would have beaten Bucks to begin with. 1971 is an open year in the East with Knicks struggling with injuries, but it's Bucks year. After 1971, Sixers were so much worse than I can't see old Wilt carrying Sixers even to the finals, let alone to one championship.

In short, I can see one ring and less finals appeariances. Would it help Wilt's resume overall? I don't know, I suppose he'd have another all-time great season without all the drama in 1969, but the rest of his career would be considerably worse than with the Lakers.

I don't know why you think the rest of his career would be worse than with the Lakers as Cunningham and Walker were all entering their peaks along with Jackson.

While Greer and Wilt would be still in their primes until 1971 and even then Wilt was still a highly impactful player in 1972 and 1973.


With LA Wilt encountered an incompetent coach and a team with virtually no depth compared to his great 76er teams until 1972.

Not only that, but while West was in his prime, Baylor was in a rapid decline.

West was also fighting injuries for much of the five seasons that he and Wilt were paired together.

He missed the last fourth of the '71 season (including the playoffs), and he had two injured wrists in the '70 Finals.

He also had aching knees in the 72-73 post-season and tore his hamstring in the 1973 finals.

So, instead of Chamberlain probably amassing 2 or 3 more rings with the Sixers, he was only able to garner one more (albeit, four finals in five years), with the Lakers.

Walker (whom I'd argue is the most mainstream underrated of the other 76ers scorers) leaves after '69. As others have noted Jackson has injury issues and arguably wasn't that great to begin with.

And by 69-70 Greer has edged into negative TS%s, a significant dropoff in in his main box score source of contribution.

Fwiw, this means '70 76ers lose two solid starters (Imhoff and Clark) get circa 12 games of Wilt and need to not to slip too much). If they're still paying Wilt my guess is deeper reserves (inc backup C) would if anything get worse (less to spend, and at C, less anticipated minutes for backup). And they'd need not to get too much worse or risk sliding out of the playoffs or get better luck converting their SRS, points dif into wins.

And Wilt has to coach this team (travel?) whilst rehabbing a very serious, very painful injury. Some may, in the abstract, feel Ramsay to (player-coach) Wilt is a coaching downgrade in general.

As 70sfan has noted I haven't heard of Mullaney as incompetent either. Fwiw, and not necessarily a balanced or neutral voice but Wilt seemed to rate Mullaney crediting him for Wilt's (self-perceived) improved defense, especially on Jabbar and the acquisition of Hairston, Goodrich and McMillian (can't speak to his role in trades myself) [all p281 from Wilt, Chamberalin and Shaq, 1973).

Where I think there is greater room to acknowledge what might have been is that had the relationships and agreements between Richman, Kosloff, Chamberlain, Hannum and Ramsay been better, clearer, more open and more healthy (and the playoff '68 team more physically healthy) then 67-69 76ers had an opportunity to be a genuinely dominant force for a slightly extended period and to a greater degree than irl and therefore likely be more "significant" in the narrative history of the NBA.